[RCSE] I'm (not) Out of Here
Bashing, flaming and generally rounding on any form of life deemed inferior has been an endemic problem on the Internet since the beginning. You just get used to it and use the 'delete' key or filters as appropriate. It's like graffiti -- its not nice to look at, you don't want it but it appears anyway so the best you can do is make with the paint brush. I'm very appreciative of the vendors. I actually think they're crazy to try and make a living out of this hobby. Think about it. They're selling specialist, fairly low cost, low profit items from an uncertain supply chain to a customer base that's both inconsistent and fairly picky. They have to either love what they're doing or they're masochists. Maybe both. It doesn't surprise me that sometimes things are out of stock, orders get lost and information is inaccurate or out of date. It does surprise me that so much works and orders usually turn up exactly as expected. This list is supposed to be the information exchange and place to look for ideas. So -- some ideas, please. I want to get a new open class sailplane to replace a venerable Alcyone which has seen one repair too many. There's a lot of choices. I don't need the ultimate contest winner, just someting that's fairly light, fairly strong and not too expensive. The most popular contest plane round here is the Addiction. What's other contenders are there? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] I'm (not) Out of Here
At 02:10 AM 1/8/2002, Martin Usher wrote: I don't need the ultimate contest winner, just someting that's fairly light, fairly strong and not too expensive. The most popular contest plane round here is the Addiction. What's other contenders are there? Schpot Dorker lite Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] RE: Optimum spoiler size
What a great group. Ask a question about spoiler size and you get comment, discussion, and conversation about it from the likes of Mark, Blaine and Harley. Thanks guys. What a great group! RVC RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Speedy Aircraft
Simon, I have one of the new NYX's and am very impressed with its speed envelope. I only have the Lite version but it is still very stiff in the fuse. For speed though I would suggest the Carbon version. Much stiffer, a little heavier and has provisions for more ballast. Yet another fast plane offered by the guys at www.f3x.com. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS - Original Message - From: Simon Van Leeuwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 3-Soaring Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:24 PM Subject: [RCSE] Speedy Aircraft I have had a number of queries asking what sort of off-the-shelf composite aircraft might be capable of flying competively (really, really fast). I know the list below is not complete, but at least it is a start. The idea being, is that these aircraft manufacturers can be approached to add extra reinforcement in the appropriate areas (if actually needed). I would like to hear from pilots/manufacturers/vendors who believe there are other A/C that could/should be added to this list. I know there are some DS'ing folks producing small batches of this and that which might be appropriate. This effort is not an attempt (at least at this point) to compare/weigh the relative qualities of each aircraft, but more as a jumping off point for those pilots who would approach any of the manufacturers/vendors on their own to acquire model(s) that will stand up to the punishment they will altimately see! On the other hand...you could roll your own. Lets here from you, I mean let's here from those who know of aircraft that would at least have a chance(?) of staying together after diving for 10-15 seconds, then pulling out to enter/exit the 200 meter course. Cm'on...I dare ya...here is the list so far: Compact II ET-Air Acacia II F3X, NSP Hades IIIcare, F3X Cobra IIF3X Pike WR F3X Tragi 702 F3X Stratos SR Shredair Elipse series Jaro Muller Sting F3X p.s. Keep in mind the following FAI rules: Maximum surface area (including stab) 150dm^2 Maximum flying mass 5.0Kg Loading of the stab 12 to 75 g/dm^2 Minimum nose radius 7.5mm Also keep in mind that there is no prefabrication issue (builder of the model rule). Some things to consider: -Tailboom stiffness. There has to be relativel litlle hysterysis (little flex) between the main wing and pitch control surfaces at very high speeds -Airfoils I like; RG-15 (thinned), HQ108, MH-30, -V-tails -Ballast capable -5-cells -Strobes for vertical descent -Good thermalling ability/reflex for speed -Highly visible -Very short linkages, servos at or in control surface area *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Simon Van Leeuwen, Calgary, Alberta RADIUS SYSTEMS Cogito-Ergo-Zoom IAC25233*MAAC12835*IMAC1756*LSF5953*IMAA20209 *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] source for black poplar veneer
Greetings Is there any good source for comparison of black poplar veneer compared with other hardwood veneers. I notice that many of the sailplanes I'm seeing with wood veneer wings that are relatively low weight are using black poplar. What is the thickness of these veneers. How does obechee compare to black poplar. How does black poplar compare to other poplar wood veneers. Anyone with experience with this type of wing construction? Thanks, Jon Syvertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] For Sale - X-Model Falcon NIB
NIB - 2M X-Model Falcon with white top, red bottom 2 piece wing with Yellow fuse and V-tail. This can be built as just a 2M sailplane or the nose can be cut-off to make a hotliner. For pictures and more detail go to www.aero-model.com . Asking $235 which will include shipping in continental US. Send questions to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Chuck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Hawaiian Sloping?
Is there anybody on the list that slopes on Maui? If so p-l-e-a-s-e contact me so I can get in touch with you. I will be on your island in Feb and really want to meet up and fly with the best of the soaring race, the slope-head :o) Many thanks Paul RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Old posts
In a message dated 1/8/2002 8:12:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does this mean we will get "Flame Wars" all over again? John
RE: [RCSE] looking for a portable HLG
TGW Goblin period! (everything you have mentioned) : ) -Original Message- From: Doug Penney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 16:20 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] looking for a portable HLG I would like to find a decent, durable HLG that can travel well - durable, perhaps foamy... - easy to pack in a car trunk, or a large suitcase, and survive to fly well - removable wings? tail??? Any suggestions? Thanks. Doug Doug Melody Penney, Taichung TAIWAN [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] looking for a portable HLG
Perhaps a Chinook. http://www.tgworks.com/chinook.htm Very very portable. Lots of fun. Regis -Original Message- From: Doug Penney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 10:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] looking for a portable HLG I would like to find a decent, durable HLG that can travel well - durable, perhaps foamy... - easy to pack in a car trunk, or a large suitcase, and survive to fly well - removable wings? tail??? Any suggestions? Thanks. Doug Doug Melody Penney, Taichung TAIWAN [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] 3.7m Sharon.....bashing, etc
This is all taking up too much of my precious little free time. See ya! Before I go... My 3.7m Sharon Profi is now $1250, shipped anywhere within CONUS. Contact me directly if interested. Keith McLellan Salinas, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] tip stall tape?
-- I was wondering where I could find some of that zigzag tape that is used for getting rid of tip stalls.. I have a DG-600 that has a nasty tip stall and somebody mentioned trying the tape as the wing is obechi sheeted with glass winglets so I cant seem to put any significant washout in the wing with a heat gun. Thanks, MM RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Sam Ward/LSF Response
Et all, I am flabbergasted at the ilk that this person seems to be the prevayer of. The LSF is in no ones pocket, especially Mr. Spindles. His pockets are definitely NOT deep enough. Mr. Spindle, helped us out at the Nats Last year by supplying over 70% of the Workers raffle booty, not only for the adults but for the kids who worked as well. Thanks to this persons spew, past and present, The Nats Workers raffle for 2002 IS in real danger of NOT having much of anything. Don't get me wrong, we have a few generous donors,to date, but no one will take on the job of collecting donations because of this crap. Current Donors can be seen at : http://www.silentflight.org/NATS2002/donor2002.html, only one donation has been received at this time. Karlton, who is most adept at this kind of activity, gathering donations for a cause, at the dealer level, has reluctantly passed on the request to to this job because of the crap that this individual and others caused last year. The LSF is hurting this year, for the big radio prizes, the big airplane donations, and the small stuff because of this person and a few others like him. Who suffersNot the LSF, not Karlton Spindle...but YOU, the general soaring community at large, and those who do come to the Nats. Those of you who come to the Nats and volunteer your time, in the hopes of maybe winning one of those big prizes. As for charges of me being in Mr. Spindle pocket, I will have you all know that I travel to as many contests as I can, to promote the LSF and the Nats each year, out of my pocket. Not the LSF and certainly not Mr. Spindles. Yes, I do own some MPX products, were they given to me ..NO..Do I like the products...YES...as far as I am concerned, the Profi 4000 picks up where the Stylus leaves off, other than that there are no better, for what we do. Am I in someone's pocket for stating what I believe..NO Am I harming some ones reputation by stating my Facts..NO Am I engaging in SkulldougeryNO Karlton Spindle has supported soaring for years. From the F3X teams to local contests, even here in the Cincinnati area. Most seem him at the bigger contests donating radios and kits to the contest raffle. Mr.. Ward, what is it that you donate, contribute, or impart as knowledge that can be construed to be beneficial to the soaring community at large? Please go away...we have no need for your tripe! You have caused enough damage for all of us. Presidential Language and Political correctness to the list precludes me from telling you how hurtful you are, and how I really feel. My personal Thank YOU to those who have supported the LSF and Karlton, on this list. Saddened by Stupidity, Jack Strother LSF President From: Karlton Spindle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Karlton Spindle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sam Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RCSE] Sam Ward Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:28:20 -0800 Sam if you have a problem with shipping please let me know your not in our system and I doubt you have ever ordered from us so what exact product are you referring to? Smooth Sailing, Karlton Spindle http://www.MultiplexRC.com http://www.svmSPEEDWAY.com http://www.SVMracing.com - Original Message - From: Sam Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Not a NEW Product... From: Bill Conkling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sam Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Not a NEW Product... Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:38:52 -0500 (EST) To ad, or not to ad. That is not the question. The question is, When are we gonna quit this crap and get on with something important? I personally don't care one way or the other, but I'm sick and tired of all this discussiion of ads. Maybe we should change the name of this list from 'Soaring' to 'Marketing 101'. As long as you have unprofessional people in this hobby, like K. Spindle, this is the way thing will be. It seems like he has the LSF in his pocket, Jack S. for sure. Spindle, helps so much, he can't even attand a NATS. Yes he always has an excuse. Same when he doesn't ship product. _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack Strother [EMAIL PROTECTED] LSF President LSF Level IV Loveland, OH _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: World's BEST covering Method (long)
Hey guys, Thank you both so very much for the really quick response and all the poop for what I still think is the world's greatest. Fortunately I have a few NOSEEUMS and (guess what) a DAW 1-26 to practice on. And I guess it wouldn't hurt to re- read Daves' instructions again. I will send digital pics to you both as soon as I get it done. Thanks again, Thermals all that Fran Miller RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] I want to donate to US F3J team.
Hi All, In an effort to show that I'm not that upset about getting my butt kicked at F3J Team selection, I'd like to donate some money, with a catch: My employer will match my donation if the recipient of the donation is 501(c)(3) tax-exempt and public charity status as granted by the IRS. I know Joe, Gordon, and Skip can't match this description. Is there a soaring club that has done the paperwork that I could donate to and in turn they could donate funds to the team? Thanks, Mark Taylor (record holder- 2.7 second F3J flight with 55 landing points.) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] is rcse working?
Hello all, I have not received a single message since Jan 04. Could someone please reply to let me know it is still working. Should I resubscribe? Marc Webster _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Re: [midwestslope] Feburary contest at Wilson, KS
I'm looking for my old Air Force or skiing thermals right now, count me in, should be a b.b.br.b.br.b.b.blast -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Fair (warm) Winds, David Goebel Okie sloper wannabe RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] WinchDoctor bound for SWSC
Hi Doug, (Whoops, I mean Winchdoc), You can buy all the tickets you want. I've advised the staff to just not put them in the hopper!! Have a safe trip. Darwin Winchdoc wrote: Watch out!!! The Winch Doctor and the WinchWench will be headed to the SWSC from the Pacific Northwet to do the vendor thing. I will donate some cool things to the raffle, and I will have Real Balls for sale with Free installation on your motor at the contest. Doc P.S. Yes Darwin, I will be buying raffle tickets... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Canards-- what a canard!!!
Well, why are there no glider canards (Ducks in French) around, in other words, why are so very few aircraft designed with the stabilisator first, Donald asked. There are several reasons for that, some of them simple, some less so. First, the forward wing (of any plane) must always stall first. This leads to using more cambered airfoils on the front wing, or smaller chord, or higher aspect ratio, or high wingloading, and/or the use of extreme rigging angles. The Lockspeiser 3/4 scale prototype utility aircraft used three identical wing surfaces, the nose wing being set at an usual rigging angle, to lower its stalling speed, while the right and left wing panel had a pronounced dihedral, complemented with very big winglets. Its flying characteristics were described as interesting Not the most efficient of planes, but very cheap to manufacture, as all ribs were identical, the fuselage had constant cross section and so on. On a pure glider canard, when you are approaching stall, say in a thermal, you lose your elevator first, as it is situated on the front wing surface - which has to stall first unless you want to crash into the ground tail first - not a nice situation. So many practical canards, like the Saab Viggen just has trimming flaps on the forward wing, and have elevons/elevators on the main wing. Let's say we use a fairly high aspect ratio canard wing, of small chord, in front of the main wing. This will stall as predicted before the main wing and is possible to build without excessive costs. We now have to deal with the canard wing's tip vortices, that will hit the main wing midspan, and the difference in downwash angle for the main wing's innner sections and outer sections, a sure drag-producing way of designing an aircraft's wing arrangement. And fitting elevators to the main wing of a conventional canard means that they will be very inefficient, being so close to the CG, unless very big, so that is not a great alternative either. So let's say we have a high aspect nose wing, of greater span than the rear wing, with higher wing loading than the rear wing. Nice, good, simple. Sadly, this is just like how we design conventional, tail-equipped planes, so we already know that this works. So such a canard (following conventional design rules) probably works quite well, but we probably end up with a heavy plane (the high aspect ratio forward wing has still to be torsionally stiff, and as it is of smaller chord than the main wing it might easily weigh more than the main wing)! A bonus is that the extreme ends of the canard (beyond the span of the main wing) can be equipped with ailerons, to boost rolling power, but that is the nowm of conventional airplanes anyway, that the front wing carries the ailerons and the rear carries the elevators! Adding ailerons to the front wing of a normal canard, with a front wing of the same, or shorter span, than the main wing is a no-no, as the effects of the upwash/downwash from the moving ailerons will upset the flow over the rear wing, and might even result in control reversal! The aileron-equipped version of Lazy Bee suffers from this, to some extent, as the tail has such a big span compared to the wing, so it rolls not much better than the original version, which has no control surfaces on the wing itself. Tailerons, on the other hand, might work very well! As anyone tried it? Back to canards: So, while a canard can use flaps on both canard and main wing (the latter's doubling as elevators - flappevators?), things are much easier if we add a tail to this equation. Say we build a conventional plane with a conventional tail, but add a pair of auxilliary wing surfaces under the main wing, which we can rotate at will we are close to the ideal arrangement, as it doesn't really matter if it is the wing or theses auxilliary surfaces that stall first, as they are so very close together. This arrangement of wing surfaces is called Junkers' flaps (as used on Ju-52s and other aircraft) and is very efficient on models, too, as long as the gap is kept to a minimum. One student of Martin Hepperle did make some wind tunnel test the other year that proved that it worked well on models (have not seen the paper but had a letter from Martin about this). You can then use a main wing with almost nil camber with fullspan flaps, also of nil camber, mounted slightly below, and slightly forward, of the main wing's extreme TE. The control surfaces could as usual be subdivided into three sections, the outer acting as droopable/crowable ailerons, the middle as flaperons and the inner as pure flaps, or 80% flaps and 20% flaperons. Even Burt Rutan, who was initially inspired by the Saab Viggen, has stated that unless your aircraft is designed for very extreme use a conventional layout is always better. For deltas adding a delta, or swept, nose wing is sensible, as it improves the lift at high angles of attack, as it increases the wingtip vorticies. Once saw a guy with a
[RCSE] Viggen in retrospect
The nose wing on the Viggen works very well at high angles of attack, making it a routine manouvre to land on runways as short as a flight deck of a carrier, using vortex lift and the powerful engine to maximum benefit. Also in turning flight it comes into its own, while flying at low Cls (= high speed) it is more of a hindrance than a boost. At supersonic speed, when the centre of lift is at roughly 50 mean chord, it would be better to have a swing-wing nose wing, that tucks away, like the Milan, an experimental Mirage III variant. Tord S Eriksson www.tord.nu RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [RCSE] Canards-- what a canard!!!
QWERTY is the term applied to a specific keyboard layout,(preceded by the teletype or telegrapgh keyboard). It is also a concept in education refering to an outdated technology or method of thinking adhered to for no other reason than convention, convenience, or habit, not a literal example limited to those specific keys. Actually thec purpose of the QWERTY keyboard was to intentionally slow down typists, not make it easier for them. I only picked alphabetical as one alternative. other more ergonomic setups have been tried and largely rejected as well. I would beg to differ on the euro keyboard, most folks can't just adapt easily as you intimate. I have German friends who tried to use our keyboard system, it was difficult for them, and they were skilled users, but I asume you would argue it is easier to go the other way. Lighten up it was a for fun analogy, and a good one. My point stands. We still use QWERTY keyboards over other similar if improved examples for the reasons I stated. Canards, well, that's another story, here comes the debate... Happy new year, JD -Original Message- From: Monkey King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 1:00 PM To: John Derstine Cc: glidergeek; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [RCSE] Canards-- what a canard!!! On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, John Derstine wrote: There are not more canards for the same reason we keep QWERTY next to each other on a computer keyboard. Typwriter keyboards were designed so that a fast typist could not jamb the arms when typing quickly. It was discovered early that putting the above letters in that order would solve that problem. Actually, the design is to put frequently-used combinations in slightly awkward positions so they don't get hit at the same time. That applies to the entire keyboard, not just the qwerty combo. Today there is no need to do that, but we still hang on to the convention of QWERTY, there is no reason to do so today, it is a habit, a convention mindlessly branded into our culture. It would probably be easier to teach children to type in alphabetical order, but we cannot divorce ourself of our mindset. sigh... That mistake is made *all the time*. Alphabetical keyboards are, for all intents and purposes, random. As a random layout, they are difficuly to use. The Dvorak keyboard, for instance, supposedly solves the qwerty problem. It makes a bit more theoretical sense than qwerty, but it beats the pants off of any random (including alphabetical) layout. Maybe it is too much trouble to retool our minds and preconceptions. Perhaps it would be too expensive to shift production and impossible to retrain everyone. It's actually not that hard. It's like typing on a European keyboard if you're American. You pick it up pretty easily. Conventional tailed aircraft are not better, but it is culturally ingrained as the way to do it. Which is weird since the Wrights used canards. Rutan likes them because they offer maneuverability without sacrificing stability. I like them because they're sexy. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
