Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4?

2008-03-06 Thread David Webb
The attraction is primarily for those who fly at contests or in areas
of crowded frequencies. You see if you go to a moderately sized
contest you will be forced to share a frequency pin with one or even
more of your 72 MHZ brethren. If one of them screws up and flips on
their TX ( assuming there is no TX impound) You may likely lose your
aircraft.

The last contest of the season for me is a prefect example. I am just
getting my legs in TD and F3J having only flown RC for maybe 4 years
max. I flew at every major contest for the last two years. At the last
big tournament some guy shows up with my frequency and we are both
forced to impound our TX's for the entire weekend checking with the
impound manager and the other pilot for the frequency pin every time I
wanted to tweak my plane, fly a round or even check the battery life
on my TX (ok I could do that with the Stylus without a signal but the
impound manager would  fill his/her pants)

So not only do I have to consider that at this contest there were
several northwest contenders in TD but I have to contend with the
potential of a shoot down if the conflict system fails. I distinctly
remember the background stress this added to the contest. I would have
been glad to simply be able to turn on and go For that I would be
happy to fart around with technically painful solutions.
Unfortunately, I have to buy planes for the WC and the extra 1400 for
two 2.4 systems is just not in the budget.

I also could benefit from 2.4 as I fly at relatively long distances
and my private field which is a monster hay field is right on the edge
of the frequency range of another small R/C flight field close by.
People show up, see no one else at their field and power on all the
time the thought crossed my mind today when I had a split second
glitch on my flaps.

Food for thought - these are the main considerations for me. Others
might be attracted to the feature rich options that this bandwidth
offers and several new idiot proof solutions in the new TX's that stop
you from using the wrong model memory with the wrong plane etc.

All good reasons to get the solution working and lets face it. R/C
Soaring pilots are almost certainly always itching to do the
impossible. When someone says you can't install 2.4 in a carbon fuse
you know they are going to fire up the collective hive (my
appologies to Startrek) and come up with a solution. We are the high
end geeks of the R/C community after all (said with distinction I
might add)

David Webb


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Joe Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 I've been using my trusty Stylus with Glider Card for almost as long as I've
 been serious about the sport. It has been essentially trouble free, has no
 problems with installation and has far more functionality than I could ever
 dream of using.



 So I read here about all the challenges involved with 2.4. I can understand
 relishing technical challenges—but what is the attraction of this apparently
 finicky and expensive technology?



 I just don't get it. Could someone 'splain to me what the big deal is?



 Joe Parsons
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Re: [RCSE] If its Saturday and Sunday I must be in Orlando!!!

2008-03-06 Thread Jack Strother
Nice of him to warn ya when he's comming !!!

gigglehurtz !!

--
Jack Strother   
Granger, IN 

LSF 2948
LSF Level V  #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold



 -- Original message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Eat your hearts out guys or get in your wheels for a two day fun in the MOM  
 sun, Buzzard style!
  
 Im heading down on Fridayarmed and dangerous, smiling ear  to ear  to 
 the point my gigglehurtz.
  
 See you there!
 Gordy
 
 
 
 **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money  
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---BeginMessage---



Eat your hearts out guys or get in your wheels for a two day fun in the MOM 
sun, Buzzard style!

I"m heading down on Fridayarmed and dangerous, smiling ear 
toearto the point my gigglehurtz.

See you there!
GordyIt's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
---End Message---


Re: [RCSE] If its Saturday and Sunday I must be in Orlando!!!

2008-03-06 Thread Rick Eckel
He'll probably wimp out when he sees the wind forecast. ;-)If the 
forecast holds it will be a weekend for real men!


Rick


At 08:15 AM 3/6/2008, Jack Strother wrote:

Nice of him to warn ya when he's comming !!!

gigglehurtz !!

--
Jack Strother
Granger, IN

LSF 2948
LSF Level V  #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold



 -- Original message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Eat your hearts out guys or get in your wheels for a two day fun 
in the MOM

 sun, Buzzard style!

 Im heading down on Fridayarmed and dangerous, smiling ear  to ear  to
 the point my gigglehurtz.

 See you there!
 Gordy



 **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money 
 Finance.  (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf000301)



From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:Soaring@airage.com
Cc:[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[RCSE] If its Saturday and Sunday I must be in Orlando!!! 
Date:Thu, 6 Mar 2008 03:22:23 +
Content-Type: Multipart/alternative;
 boundary=NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3719_1204809306_1

Eat your hearts out guys or get in your wheels for a two day fun in 
the MOM sun, Buzzard style!


Im heading down on Fridayarmed and dangerous, smiling ear to 
ear  to the point my gigglehurtz.


See you there!
Gordy




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[RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? Ask Don Quixote

2008-03-06 Thread GordySoar
The current 2.4 excitement is partly deserved and partly justified.
 
At the moment it gives rc pilots a new freedom...it has taken  frequency 
consideration and a need for its administration, concern out of the  equation 
of 
rc soaring...in a way its like there isn't radio waves being used as  part of 
our hobbyits as though we are preparing a free flight airplane,  there 
isn't any thinking about 'channels'.  

That freedom means that our minds to can shift to other components  of the 
flight when we come to the field...and preparing the flightthe  absence of 
radio.  We still have controls to fool with but that's where it  stops. 
 
Having said that, 72 has worked safely, does work safely and will continue  
to work safely. Arguments could be made that if anything it will be even safer  
and easier to use, with the drop in its population of users.  Sure the  
doomsday guy will throw out the possibility that channel-consideration by 
pilots  
will be come lax ...making 72 a dangerous gamble.  Clothespins and freq  boards 
will come to disrepair and with it the discipline we all learned to  respect 
as gospel on the field. Possible, but not realistic.
 
I highlighted at the moment because 2.4 is in its sailplane  infancy, ( and 
actually the term 2.4 is only a nickname for these kind of  systems because 
they all currently share the same rf frequency right now there  are at least 
two kinds of systems using 2.4) we can't tell for sure what the  future holds 
when the 2.4 population expands course with the population of  sailplane 
pilots decreasing as our age increases:-(
 
What price that freedom?  About $650 for the TX and one  RX. 
 
Gordy



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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? Ask Don Quixote

2008-03-06 Thread Jay Hunter
Good stuff.  Don't scare everyone off with the cost.  You can get a module
and receiver for about half as much that will allow you to retain 72mhz and
use 2.4ghz.  This is the avenue I have taken.

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  The current 2.4 excitement is partly deserved and partly justified.

 *At the moment* it gives rc pilots a new freedom...it has taken frequency
 consideration and a need for its administration, concern out of the equation
 of rc soaring...in a way its like there isn't radio waves being used as part
 of our hobbyits as though we are preparing a free flight airplane, there
 isn't any thinking about 'channels'.

 That freedom means that our minds to can shift to other components of the
 flight when we come to the field...and preparing the flightthe absence
 of radio.  We still have controls to fool with but that's where it stops.

 Having said that, 72 has worked safely, does work safely and will continue
 to work safely. Arguments could be made that if anything it will be even
 safer and easier to use, with the drop in its population of users.  Sure the
 doomsday guy will throw out the possibility that channel-consideration by
 pilots will be come lax ...making 72 a dangerous gamble.  Clothespins and
 freq boards will come to disrepair and with it the discipline we all learned
 to respect as gospel on the field.* Possible*, but not realistic.

 I highlighted *at the moment* because 2.4 is in its sailplane infancy, (
 and actually the term 2.4 is only a nickname for these kind of systems
 because they all currently share the same rf frequency right now there are
 at least two kinds of systems using 2.4) we can't tell for sure what the
 future holds when the 2.4 population expands course with the
 population of sailplane pilots decreasing as our age increases:-(

 What price *that* freedom?  About $650 for the TX and one RX.

 Gordy



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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4?

2008-03-06 Thread david . jensen
NO FREQUENCY CONTROL BOARD.

You are free to fly anytime you like and do not have to locate others on your 
frequency.

 -- Original message --
From: Joe Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I've been using my trusty Stylus with Glider Card for almost as long as I've
 been serious about the sport. It has been essentially trouble free, has no
 problems with installation and has far more functionality than I could ever
 dream of using.
 
  
 
 So I read here about all the challenges involved with 2.4. I can understand
 relishing technical challenges-but what is the attraction of this apparently
 finicky and expensive technology?
 
  
 
 I just don't get it. Could someone 'splain to me what the big deal is?
 
  
 
 Joe Parsons
 


---BeginMessage---








Ive been using my trusty Stylus with Glider Card for
almost as long as Ive been serious about the sport. It has been essentially
trouble free, has no problems with installation and has far more functionality
than I could ever dream of using.



So I read here about all the challenges involved with 2.4. I
can understand relishing technical challengesbut what is the attraction
of this apparently finicky and expensive technology?



I just dont get it. Could someone splain to me
what the big deal is?



Joe Parsons






---End Message---


[RCSE] Reece Brock

2008-03-06 Thread ivanbrian

Please ping me. Thanks Brian Smith
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RE: [RCSE] 2008 Soaring Masters

2008-03-06 Thread Lex Mierop
Jim Deck wrote:

I'm trying to find the dates for the  Soaring Masters Event at Muncie
this 
Fall but the AMA calendar doesn't list it.  Any body help?
TIA,
Jim Deck 

Info snipped from John Diniz's email:
All,

Since LJ brought it up please mark your calendar for Sept 18-21, 2008
for the 2nd World Soaring Masters. It is on the official IAC calendar.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/Calendar/wc092008.htm
Setup/practice day is the 18th and the MOM starts on Friday morning.
Sunday morning wraps up the MOM with the fly-offs for the cash beginning
around lunch time.

We are still in the early planning stages for the '08 event, but in
addition to the top spot payouts Horizon Hobby will be offering a
mid-pack fly-off for Big $'s (amount TBD). 

So get ready because this will be bigger then the '06 event.

DVDe's,
JD
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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - COST?

2008-03-06 Thread Hilaunch
 
In a message dated 3/6/08 7:17:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

What price that freedom?  About $650 for the TX and one  RX. 
 



With a little careful shopping you can get started  with a 2.4 system for 
much less than the $650.00 stated.
 
I started about a year ago with a DX7 from an ebay  site for $150.00 
(NIB) and a 6100 receiver (6 channel, no remote) for  $45.00.  I then added 
another DX7 for about $150.00 and several receivers  at various prices.
 
Today these prices still exist, but you must look  for them.  In 
addition, Airtronics now has an RD8000 2.4 that is available  for about $229.00 
with a 
receiver.  For another approach, Xtreme offers  modules and receivers in a 
combo package for $200.00.  You can use your  existing transmitter. Of course 
JR 
also offers modules for some JR  transmitters.  These support all the 
Spektrum receivers using the DSM2  system.  And for those of you with unlimited 
resources (Bubba), Futaba has  the 14MZ 2.4 system for just a little over 
$2,000.00
 
For me, the paramount advantage is frequency  freedom. I fly at several 
sites where frequency control is sparse to non  existent.  At some sites, it is 
not uncommon for a flyer, usually  accompanied by his children, to walk out 
on the field and attempt to fly without  regard to frequency control.  I like 
the security of knowing they cannot  affect my operations.  I also like the 
capability of stopping anywhere,  anytime and launching my DLG or E Blaster 
with 
impunity.  The 2.4 system  basically permits the world to be your flying field.
 
Additionally, I fly quite a few electric powered  models of all sizes and 
shapes and like the fact that the 2.4 system does not  permit motor glitches 
to affect operation (the glitches still are generated, but  their frequency 
does not affect the 2.4 system).
 
So come on in the water's fine.  Start  modestly if you prefer, but do it!
 
PS: Here is the 2.4 model list to date: Supra, Rogue 2.0, Blaster, E  
Blaster, Twin Star, Traveler, Robbie, Slo-Stick, .40 Cub, Small Cub, Dart and  
soon 
ICON, XP5 and SBXC.
 
Don  Richmond
San Diego,  CA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.hilaunch.com



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[RCSE] 2008 Soaring Masters

2008-03-06 Thread Jim Deck
I'm trying to find the dates for the  Soaring Masters Event at Muncie this 
Fall but the AMA calendar doesn't list it.  Any body help?

   TIA,
   Jim Deck 



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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? Ask Don Quixote

2008-03-06 Thread Richard Burnoski
Time dated offer!!!

Wow ,, a great deal on new wave products AND support for the USA F3J Team.   
Guys,,, It dont get any better than that!!!
HURRY UP,,, you only have till March 10, 08 for the Airtronics offer.  
BUT,,, Look at all those planes he sells!!

Thanks again Alberto!! Richard Burnoski

  - Original Message - 
  From: Alberto 
  To: R/C Soaring.COM Webmaster ; soaring@airage.com 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Jim Monaco ; Daryl Perkins ; Mike Lee ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; Richard Burnoski 
  Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:30 AM
  Subject: Re: [RCSE]  What's the big deal about 2.4? Ask Don Quixote


  $229.95 for Airtronics RDS-8000, 8ch Tx, Rx and battery
  charger combo.

  From now until March 10, 2008 Hobby Club will donate
  $50.00 from each of the sold systems to the US F3J Team attending the 2008 
World Championships to be held in Turkey.

  Andby the way .the Rx antennas are 7-3/4 long

  rgds,

  Alberto
   www.hobbyclub.com

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: Soaring@airage.com 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:17 AM
Subject: [RCSE]  What's the big deal about 2.4? Ask Don Quixote


The current 2.4 excitement is partly deserved and partly justified.

At the moment it gives rc pilots a new freedom...it has taken frequency 
consideration and a need for its administration, concern out of the equation of 
rc soaring...in a way its like there isn't radio waves being used as part of 
our hobbyits as though we are preparing a free flight airplane, there isn't 
any thinking about 'channels'.  

That freedom means that our minds to can shift to other components of the 
flight when we come to the field...and preparing the flightthe absence of 
radio.  We still have controls to fool with but that's where it stops. 

Having said that, 72 has worked safely, does work safely and will continue 
to work safely. Arguments could be made that if anything it will be even safer 
and easier to use, with the drop in its population of users.  Sure the doomsday 
guy will throw out the possibility that channel-consideration by pilots will be 
come lax ...making 72 a dangerous gamble.  Clothespins and freq boards will 
come to disrepair and with it the discipline we all learned to respect as 
gospel on the field. Possible, but not realistic.

I highlighted at the moment because 2.4 is in its sailplane infancy, ( 
and actually the term 2.4 is only a nickname for these kind of systems because 
they all currently share the same rf frequency right now there are at least two 
kinds of systems using 2.4) we can't tell for sure what the future holds when 
the 2.4 population expands course with the population of sailplane pilots 
decreasing as our age increases:-(

What price that freedom?  About $650 for the TX and one RX. 

Gordy






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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - COST?

2008-03-06 Thread Jay Hunter
These two reasons are why I like the 2.4 system.  And I will add one other,
the response really is better.  For the first time in my flying the plane is
doing what I want when I want it, I don't have to compensate by anticipating
the lag.

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 12:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I also like the capability of stopping anywhere, anytime and launching my
 DLG or E Blaster with impunity.  The 2.4 system basically permits the
 world to be your flying field.
 Additionally, I fly quite a few electric powered models of all sizes and
 shapes and like the fact that the 2.4 system does not permit motor
 glitches to affect operation (the glitches still are generated, but their
 frequency does not affect the 2.4 system).



[RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are getting silly

2008-03-06 Thread GordySoar
These two reasons are why I like the 2.4 system.  And  I will add one other, 
the response really is better.  For the first time in  my flying the plane is 
doing what I want when I want it, I don't have to  compensate by anticipating 
the lag.
 
 
Okay I was waiting for this one.  With a standard FM  system, not even a PCM 
System (which by the way is about the same as a 2.4  system...the word 
'digital' is sort of a hint there)...with a standard FM system  the time 
between a 
guy moving his thumb and the servo beginning its movement is  not visible to 
they eye...as it looks immediate.
 
However the indication above implies that the delay in the  information 
getting to the servos from the stick is with none digital TX  systems, would 
cause 
some sort of delay in the now pay attentionthe  movement of the 
airframe.
 
Movement of the airframe is not 'only' a function of servo  moving servos.  
AIRSPEED is a bigger factor and one that varies the lag in  response way more 
than any micro second change in the information time from  thumb to servo.
 
The next factor is servo speed 'while under their normal surface  duties'.  A 
far cheaper way to increase 'response' would have been to get  digital servos.
 
Lets not add fluff to an the benefits of a system which in the  end is just 
another way to control models.

And in the end the question to the above gleeful reason to  own a digital 
systemhow many contests will that faster response time help  you win this 
seasonmight be interesting to track compared to last  season.
 
Likely any wins won't be due to improved flying skills, it will  have to be 
the result of that signal lag which caused slower responses of your  sailplane 
;-).
 
Freedom is the big reason.   Freedom to turn on  anywhere, the park, that 
empty lot, the space next to a factorya park.
 
Gordy
pretty quick response, hey?



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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are getting silly

2008-03-06 Thread Jon Stone

 A far cheaper way to increase 'response' would have been to get  digital 
servos.

and a 5-cell RX battery pack.

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RE: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are getting silly

2008-03-06 Thread TDL
Or 2 A123 in series ;) hehehe

-Original Message-
From: Jon Stone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:46 PM
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE]  What's the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are
getting silly 



 A far cheaper way to increase 'response' would have been to get  
 digital
servos.

and a 5-cell RX battery pack.

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are generally NOT in text format No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
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Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
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RE: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are getting silly

2008-03-06 Thread TG Bean

The lag argument is well...goofy.
I have heard the Heli guys say they notice a difference, which actually makes 
some sense. The Heli is far more susceptible to lag than perhaps any other 
radio controlled device. I have also heard the IMAC guys say they notice a 
difference. Maybe they do...but I kinda doubt it.
 
We dial in Expo to reduce the stick glitch, yet we are told that response is a 
bigger deal than perhaps it is.
 
Like I saidgoofy.
 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:32:34 -0500Subject: [RCSE]  What's 
the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are getting silly To: 
Soaring@airage.com

These two reasons are why I like the 2.4 system.  And I will add one other, the 
response really is better.  For the first time in my flying the plane is doing 
what I want when I want it, I don't have to compensate by anticipating the lag.
 
 
Okay I was waiting for this one.  With a standard FM system, not even a PCM 
System (which by the way is about the same as a 2.4 system...the word 'digital' 
is sort of a hint there)...with a standard FM system the time between a guy 
moving his thumb and the servo beginning its movement is not visible to they 
eye...as it looks immediate.
 
However the indication above implies that the delay in the information getting 
to the servos from the stick is with none digital TX systems, would cause some 
sort of delay in the now pay attentionthe movement of the airframe.
 
Movement of the airframe is not 'only' a function of servo moving servos.  
AIRSPEED is a bigger factor and one that varies the lag in response way more 
than any micro second change in the information time from thumb to servo.
 
The next factor is servo speed 'while under their normal surface duties'.  A 
far cheaper way to increase 'response' would have been to get digital servos.
 
Lets not add fluff to an the benefits of a system which in the end is just 
another way to control models.
And in the end the question to the above gleeful reason to own a digital 
systemhow many contests will that faster response time help you win this 
seasonmight be interesting to track compared to last season.
 
Likely any wins won't be due to improved flying skills, it will have to be the 
result of that signal lag which caused slower responses of your sailplane ;-).
 
Freedom is the big reason.   Freedom to turn on anywhere, the park, that empty 
lot, the space next to a factorya park.
 
Gordypretty quick response, hey?


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Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
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[RCSE] test new subscription

2008-03-06 Thread richard ludt

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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are getting silly

2008-03-06 Thread Jay Hunter
I will add this and leave it alone.  My flying went from constant correcting
of over correcting to having the plane respond the way I wanted it.  And
nothing, not practice, faster servos, expo, dual rates, speed, etc...
improved the 'smoothness' of my flying like the spektrum.

If you guys don't feel it that's fine, but the same guys that were
questioning the viability of 2.4 in carbon fused sailplanes are now touting
its merits.  I guess someone like Joe Wurts would have to admit there is a
difference for some of you guys to know that it really is a better response.



On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 5:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  *These two reasons are why I like the 2.4 system.  And I will add one
 other, the response really is better.  For the first time in my flying the
 plane is doing what I want when I want it, I don't have to compensate by
 anticipating the lag.*
 **
 **
 Okay I was waiting for this one.  With a standard FM system, not even a
 PCM System (which by the way is about the same as a 2.4 system...the word
 'digital' is sort of a hint there)...with a standard FM system the time
 between a guy moving his thumb and the servo beginning its movement is not
 visible to they eye...as it looks immediate.

 However the indication above implies that the delay in the information
 getting to the servos from the stick is with none digital TX systems, would
 cause some sort of delay in the now pay attentionthe movement of the
 airframe.

 Movement of the airframe is not 'only' a function of servo moving servos.
 AIRSPEED is a bigger factor and one that varies the lag in response way
 more than any micro second change in the information time from thumb to
 servo.

 The next factor is servo speed 'while under their normal surface duties'.
 A far cheaper way to increase 'response' would have been to get digital
 servos.

 Lets not add fluff to an the benefits of a system which in the end is just
 another way to control models.

 And in the end the question to the above gleeful reason to own a digital
 systemhow many contests will that faster response time help you win this
 seasonmight be interesting to track compared to last season.

 Likely any wins won't be due to improved flying skills, it will have to be
 the result of that signal lag which caused slower responses of your
 sailplane ;-).

 Freedom is the big reason.   Freedom to turn on anywhere, the park, that
 empty lot, the space next to a factorya park.

 Gordy
 pretty quick response, hey?



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Re: [RCSE] What's the big deal about 2.4? - Lag...okay now we are getting ...

2008-03-06 Thread GordySoar
Yes!!!  The first time I put it in my Marauder Woody, I got 5 hours  out of 
the 8 I was looking for!  Not sure what I would have gotten with  72mhz...and a 
little more slope wind.
Gordy :-)
 
 
In a message dated 3/7/2008 12:47:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

One of the various bits of information that came out  when I first read about 
2.4 was a supposed increase in flying time.  Purportedly this was due to a 
more efficient
transmission versus 72mHz. Is anyone experiencing longer  flight times 
between transmitter charges with their 2.4gHz  system?





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