RE: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them?

[Dave Brombaugh]

I was surprised that this didnt start a bigger discussion yesterday.  Safety 
is something that all of us should keep in the forefront of our minds as we go 
to the field, even though its probably not something we like to discuss.  
Its similar to getting a will  we all know how important it is, but 
its certainly not a fun/happy topic to discuss.

I received three private responses:

One person asked for a compile, as their fields only rules are You must 
be AMA, and no low high speed passes over pilots.  Both of which are good 
rules, mind you, but wow.  There are still a lot of opportunities for disaster 
with this group.

Another person sent me their groups safety rules and bylaws.  This group 
does DS; its certainly encouraging to see that folks involved in such an 
extreme sport have some rules around safe DS flying.  I admit  Ive never 
done DS, but I know that it can be extremely dangerous (and therefore, such a 
rush!)

Finally, there was a person who said that creating formal safety rules was a 
recipe for disaster.  He had some good points:
 AMA doesnt have formal safety rules.  They have a Safety Code 
(guidelines by which to live)
 Rules become points for litigation
 Rules provide loopholes for site officials and insurance providers
 This persons final statement was:  the single force powerful enough 
to destroy a club and lose a flying site is safety rules.

All three of these folks provided some interesting and valuable feedback and 
insight.  What about others?  Id love to see more input and comments on the 
topic of safety.  Even if you dont want to reply to the exchange, Id 
appreciate private replies and suggestions.  Ill be more than happy to 
provide an anonymous summary as I did above.

Thanks again for your time.
- Dave


_
From: Dave Brombaugh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 08:39
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them?

I tend to start decent discussions with my posts, hopefully this will be a good 
one too.

Ive been selected as the safety officer for the Seattle Area Soaring Society 
(SASS) this year.  I have been tasked with updating our Safety rules, and 
providing a nice, simple handout that covers both AMAs and SASS safety 
rules.  Im including a snippet of the rules we used from last year.  Note 
 there are some of these with which I do not necessarily agree, which is why 
Im looking for alternative ideas (and, just general experience and ideas 
from all of you out there!).

The SASS field is open for use for model rocketry, small electrics 
(Zagi-type/speed and smaller), and of course, soaring.  While this sounds like 
a recipe for disaster, weve been pretty successful so far.  Folks launching 
on the winch are very aware of people wandering around the field at/near 
launch, 

For those of you who are at a strict sailplane field  what are some of your 
safety rules?
For those of you who have combined electrics/sailplanes at the same field  
what are some of your safety rules, specifically around the interaction between 
the electric and sailplane pilots?

Finally, for those clubs with websites, could you provide me pointers to your 
safety rules online, such that I can plagiarize^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Huse them as 
a potential resource? 

Thanks again for your assistance, everyone!
- Dave

SASS 2004 rules snippet:

*   AMA required (even for 27MHz Firebirds)
*   Electrics in electric area
*   4 electric pilots at a time, standing in pilot stations
*   Size limit for electrics (park flier size, stock speed 400, or as 
deemed acceptable by a member of the safety committee)
*   Prohibit Flying low over soccer fields/116th St/parking area/pits when 
occupied
*   Prohibit Launching planes from pits (area around frequency board)
*   Prohibit 1st flights away from pits
*   Check aircraft for flight worthiness
*   Winch training required to operate winch

2004 Electric Park Flier Rules 
*   All fliers must have AMA Insurance and post it on frequency board (this 
INCLUDES aircraft flown on 27MHz frequencies) 
*   Pilots MUST stand in individual pilot stations at West edge of field 
*   Maximum of 4 Park Fliers in air at a time 
*   Park fliers are limited to slow-flier stock aircraft with stock Speed 
400 motor or smaller (unless certified by member of SASS Safety Committee) 
*   Park fliers MUST limit flying to western 1/3 of field as indicated by 
marker posts (see map). No flying over the rest of field is permitted 
*   Pilots may NOT walk directly across electric field when approaching 
flying stations. Pilots should walk to the western edge of the field first, 
then proceed south (or north) to the pilot stations, being aware of other 
aircraft in the air at all times 
*   Electric assisted sailplanes are permitted to fly anywhere at 60-Acres 
and are not restricted in size or power. They are to be 

Re: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them?

[Thomas Koszuta]

I was part of our club safety commitee once upon a time and took it upon 
myself to help with the rules.  I used to write operating specs as a process 
engineer and thought that if I could do that a safe flying document would be 
easy.  My first reviewer said I was way too wordy and noone would ever 
finish reading it.  That discouraged me enough to read it a few more times 
and eventually abandon my new stuff.  We went to the old stuff saying range 
check, check that you have the right program for the model, no low passes 
over the pits, etc.

I have to admit that I am fairly safety conscious, maybe even slightly 
paranoid about how lax saiplane pilots can be.  The fact that we don't have 
a runway with a fence in front of us seems to encourage stand where you want 
and go get your plane where ever it lands and don't shout out when landing 
or launching.  I really hate when guys flying the electrics (or the slopers, 
when we are there) stand up in front of their chair, turn on the prop and 
throw it without any word, or worse, from just behind your field of vision. 
It is also hard to establish an area for this or that when your field layout 
effectively changes with wind direction.  We fly on a small field (a West 
wind makes the grass part of the field too small for a full sized histart) 
and it is hard to get any real separation of areas.  I'm curious as to how 
you your flying stations work out when the wind is straight alonn thier 
line.

I don't know if having Da Rules will lead to legal problems any more than 
not having them in place, but I do know that, in general, people will not 
follow safety procedures with anything if it is too inconvenient.  I've seen 
it in garages, flying fields and a chemical plant.  Few people will be 
safety conscious without having been personally affected by not following 
them.  Smoking is everyday proof that knowing the dangers does not 
necessarily affect behavior.

I think the big thing is enforcement.  Maybe your club has the rules better 
netrenched but i have found that too many people do not want to have the 
safety hat on for fear of offending someone with their actions.  It is hard 
to be the cop when the other flyers are your friends of many years. 
Enforcement is probably the real topic here,  not what is written on a piece 
of paper.  Who is going to be the guy that says your grounded for a week for 
violating our Safety Code item 1.3.a?  And who is going to pack up and leave 
for a week if he did?  How do you get him to do it if he refuses?  This is a 
little extreme in example, but I think the point is the same whether its a 
big offense or the same nuisance offense over and over.


Tom Koszuta
Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers
Buffalo, NY
- Original Message - 
From: Dave Brombaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: soaring@airage.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Safety rules - do you have them?

I was surprised that this didnt start a bigger discussion yesterday. 
Safety is something that all of us should keep in the forefront of our minds 
as we go to the field, even though its probably not something we like to 
discuss.  Its similar to getting a will  we all know how important it is, 
but its certainly not a fun/happy topic to discuss.

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