[Soekris] net6501: temps and fans redux
I've searched and read through the -tech archives and though CPU temps and cooling have been discussed several times, I'm not seeing direct answers to the questions I have. I've running a newish net6501-60 loaded with OpenBSD 5.3 "current" and a Crucial M4 mSATA SSD. No hard drive, no other components, just a standard case, SSD, and power supply. 1) OpenBSD > "sysctl hw.sensors" returns 65-68C for the CPU temp *at idle*. That seems quite high to me, given that the ambient temp in the room is just 15C (cool basement), and Soren wrote here last year saying to expect about 32C over ambient. So: 15C+32C = about 47C expected. And I'm 20C over that. Yikes,. But perhaps "hw.sensors" in OpenBSD is buggy for this box and/or a compensation factor is needed to interpret its output? What are others folks seeing for idle temps using OpenBSD when they run that same command? 2) The manual says the fans are under control of the uManager, but provides no other information. Are there published temps corresponding to the "min RPM" and "max RPM" values for the fans, and the nature of the temp vs fan speed curve? 3) Is there any difference between J12 and J13 on the board as far as how uManager addresses them and how they should be used, or just whichever the fan cable will reach? Thanks /dr/ PS I'm thinking of ordering a 30mm case fan but then putting a small pot on the power lead it so it's adjustable to run more slowly. I figure even small air movement will keep the inside case temp near ambient, which may be all I need to keep things from getting too toasty. ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
[Soekris] net6501-60: temperature and fans, redux
I've searched and read through the -tech archives, and although CPU temps have been discussed several times, I'm not seeing direct answers to the questions I have. This is a newish net6501-60 loaded with OpenBSD 5.3 "current" and a Crucial M4 SSD. No hard drive, no other components in the standard case. 1) "sysctl hw.sensors" as root gives me 65-68C *at idle* as the CPU temp. That seems quite high to me, given that the ambient temp in the room is just 15C and Soren wrote last year to expect about 32 over ambient, so: 15C+32C = about 47C. But perhaps "hw.sensors" in OpenBSD is buggy for this box and/or a compensation factor is needed to interpret its output? What are others seeing for idle temps using OpenBSD when they run that command? 2) The manual says the fans are under control of the uManager, but provides no other information. Are the temps corresponding to the "min RPM" and "max RPM" values for the fans? Is the curve linear or logarithmic as temperature rises? 3) Is there any difference between J12 and J13 as far as how uManager addresses them and how they should be used? Thanks DR PS I'm thinking of ordering a 30mm case fan but then putting a resistor on the power lead it so it runs more slowly, just to keep the inside case temp near ambient. That may be all I need for my application. ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
[Soekris] Disabling HTT on Atoms?
I'm doing some testing - performance, power, and thermal - on my net6501. Is there a way to insure that HyperThreading (HTT) is disabled? I'm fine with a command or a config setting at the bios level or an OS-level command, whatever's available. (I'm using OpenBSD with the uniprocessor kernel, so I expect it's not taking advantage of HTT anyways. And yes, I know this change will probably make zero detectable difference in any of the categories I care about, but I do want to be thorough in my test and prove this.) Thanks for any info. /d/ ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
[Soekris] Fan issues in net6501?
Has anyone played with using fans connected to the motherboard fan headers on their net6501? I've tried three different fans, each using both headers (JP12 and JP13, IIRC) in the standard (not rackmount) Soekris case. They all seem to run at very, very low RPMs, something under 1000, I think. That's wouldn't be a problem in and of itself, as the room is cool and it would be fine by me if the system kept the fans at a sane level - except that they don't seem to be provided with enough voltage or current at power-on to get them moving from a standstill. I have to hand-rotate them to get them going, at which point they stay spinning just fine forever. (Note, again, this is several different models and sizes of fans, so not a problem with just one fan type requiring an extra-high "push", and I'm using the stock power supply from Soekris, and the system is drawing <10 watts at the wallplate. So not an overall power problem, either.) I'm wondering if uManager is just thinking the temps are so low it doesn't need to push the fans very hard, but that means they don't have the voltage/current being sent to actually get them moving from a standing start? On my big Dell servers the BIOS gets around this problem by always starting the fans at full RPM for 2-3 seconds at power-on, then throttling them back to the proper level now that they're guaranteed to be spinning. Perhaps that's the problem here, that a needed full RPM period isn't happening...? So, again, any other experiences out there? Do your fans always run slowly and do they have the same non-start problem? Maybe I have a bad board if not... And regardless, finally, is there ANY information about how uManager computes some sort of CPU temperature vs. fan RPM factor, since the manual implies (without saying it directly) that it will rotate the fans faster as the system temp increases? thanks David ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Fan issues in net6501?
Michael: Yes, I mean all tests the fans run quite slowly when attached to the net6501, even when the case is completely off and I've got the fan out on the bench, fastened to nothing. In any case (ahem) there are more than sufficient holes in the standard case to allow airflow of the type a 50mm or 30mm fan pulls. -david- On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:20 AM, Michael Sierchio wrote: > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:29 PM, David Ruggiero > wrote: > >> I've tried three different fans, each using both headers (JP12 and JP13, >> IIRC) in the standard (not rackmount) Soekris case. They all seem to run at >> very, very low RPMs, something under 1000, I think. > > Naive question - are you sure this isn't a fluid flow problem? Is the > speed the same with the case open as closed? > > Thanks. > > - M ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] net6501 : CPU architecture ?
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Kyle Brantley wrote: > In short, as per Intel, using the 6501 in a 64-bit mode is unsupported. With > that said, I've been > running my 6501s in 64-bit mode exclusively, ever since I got one (two weeks > after release?). > I've not had any problems with them, but then again, I may not be using them > in a way > that triggers issues, should there be any. A few months ago I asked the question here about what the pros and cons would be of running the OpenBSD SMP kernel (bsd.mp) on the net6501, versus the standard uniprocessor kernel - seeing that the E6XX series has HyperTransport and therefore something approximating multiple cores. There wasn't, as I recall, any consensus, or even much information at all (*). So from this discussion, as far as I can tell, I have a choice of _four_ different OpenBSD kernels that could legitimately be booted on my net6501 and would probably run: 32-bit i386 uniprocessor 32-bit i386 SMP 64-bit amd64 uniprocessor 64-bit amd64 SMP I'm sure a similar list of possible alternatives exists for other BSD variants and for Linux. A different company than Soekris might do some quick testing, or at least provide some pithy engineering insight and give its customers a quick rundown from their point of view on the advantages and disadvantages of 32 vs 64bit and non-smp vs smp - whether in general, or for specific common application needs. But at the risk of being flamed here, I'll say that I'm not holding my breath for any information like that from the company anytime soon... If anyone has data points around these questions from actual personal experience and actual real-world testing, like Kyle's, I'm sure many would be grateful for that. D (*) beyond the knowledge that "pf" is still single-threaded, so if all you're using the box for is a packet filter/router, then smp won't help _that_ particular much ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Fan suggestions for the Net6501
Robin: The net6501 standard case provides a mounting bracket on the far side, next to the disk drive area, for a very compact 30mm case fan. It attaches directly to one of two 12v headers on the system board and blows sideways. (Others have suggested on this list that the venting holes in the case are not optimally situated for this fan to blow air unobstructed, but that's another discussion.) I tried using this fan mount myself and it kept the system much cooler, but as you yourself suspect, it was somewhat noisy. So in my case (ahem), I ended up taking a drill press and putting about 25 moderately-sized (maybe 3/16"?) holes in the top of the case, in a big circular grid right above the processor heat sink. I then mounted a larger - maybe 40mm? - but slower fan right below those holes, inside the case, blowing up and out through them. (There is enough clearance between the top of the heat sink and the case itself to allow this if it's not too thick of a fan.) That fan also attached to one of the same 12v headers on the processor mainboard. For me, that larger but slower fan was somewhat quieter, drew only about 1w total, and worked very well to keep the reported processor temperature much lower. I'm not sure how much just the new case holes alone would have helped due to increased convection, if at all, though that would be an interesting test. Good luck. David On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 4:46 AM, Robin Kipp wrote: > Hi all, > well, now that I've got a hard disk built into my Net6501, I've noticed the > whole thing heating up quite significantly. I've found that when up and > running, the 1-slot metal case will get quite hot, and that's while the CPU > is somewhat idle. So, I guess that in order to stay safe, a fan would be > quite a good idea. However, I'll admit I don't know too much about mainboard > fans and have no idea what the Net6501 can handle. Also, it would be > important for me to have something rather quiet, so not a fan that runs on > full speed all the time. > So, if anyone on here has any experience with fans on the Net6501 I'd > definitely appreciate more info on this subject! Also, do they need to be > soldered to the mainboard or do they also just plug in normally? ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] net6501-50 normal working temperature
Just out of curiosity, what is everyone using to measure the core temp? As I recall, OpenBSD 5.x provides (via "/sbin/sysctl hw.sensors" ) an un-compensated value that's actually 10 degrees C higher than the real core temperature for these types of Atoms. Or so folks seemed to think on this list about six months back. But perhaps you're using other tools or OSes that are already fixed...? My 6501-60 was running at 70C (compensated, actual) or better even under a very light load, using the standard Soekris case. I didn't like this, so I went the active-cooling route and drilled a bunch of holes in the top, right over the heat sink, and then put a very slow-speed, very quiet fan right under them, tied to the 12v fan header. I now run at a cool 45-50C (compensated) depending on the ambient temp, and pull only about (IIRC) 2W more at the wall, with no more apparent noise. I could post pictures of my franken-case if anyone's interested. -David- On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:38 AM, Peter J. Holzer wrote: > On 2013-12-02 14:27:40 +0100, Dr. Peter Voigt wrote: >> Am Mon, 2 Dec 2013 10:13:09 +0100 >> schrieb "Peter J. Holzer" : >> > I got some 6501-70's in the 19" case and they run even hotter. For now >> > I made a little cardboard construction to keep them vertical: >> > >> > http://www.hjp.at/hw/twin_towers_of_soekris/ >> > >> > But if (or when) we move them into a 19" rack I may have to install >> > some fans. >> >> Well, according to your impressing case positions I have noticed that >> your idle temperatures exceed 80 degrees Celsius in the 19" case. >> >> I am using the same original Soekris 19" rack mount case and I have >> never observed such high idle temperatures at normal ambient >> temperatures (22-23 degrees Celsius). Usually my idle temperature is >> around 70 degrees Celsius. What is your average ambient temperature? > > About the same. It probably varies more than 1 degree (our office AC is > old ...), but I'm quite sure it wasn't warmer than 25°C. > > >> Additionally, I have observed that temperature decreases by ~7 degrees >> Celsius, if you just leave the 19" case open (upper cover). > > Yup. That also allows the warm air to rise. > > hp > > > -- >_ | Peter J. Holzer | I think we need two definitions: > |_|_) | WSR - Softwaredevelopment | 1) The problem the *users* want us to > solve > | | | und Projektunterstützung | 2) The problem our solution addresses. > __/ | h...@wsr.ac.at |-- Phillip Hallam-Baker on spam > > ___ > Soekris-tech mailing list > Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com > http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech > ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] net6501-30 max throughput
> >>Second there is quite a bit of Voodoo^H^H^H^H^H^Hahem non-deterministic > >>configuration here because >> the ALT-Q code has some real performance issues Chris, do you expect that the ALT-Q rewrite coming in OpenBSD 5.5 will significantly improve queue and bandwidth management performance? Or is it just window dressing? Would love to know if the pain of an upgrade (I'm on 5.3 IIRC) will be worth it. I do use ALT-Q extensively. And as long as I'm herethe blog of the guy following the OpenBSD kernel team as they hack and slash their way through a near-total-rewrite of the buggy OpenSSL code (to create LibreSSL) is quite, quite entertaining. Check it out: http://opensslrampage.org/ -d- ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
[Soekris] Interesting alternative: Fitlet
Just mentioned on Slashdot. See especially the Fitlet-I (two GigE ports) and the Fitlet-X (mini-PCIe slot, allowing three more GigEs) models: http://linuxgizmos.com/tiny-fanless-mini-pc-runs-linux-on-quad-core-amd-soc/ No word on power requirements yet, though. But the $129-and-up pricing is attractive. ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Dying net6501 servers
You might laugh, but for embedded applications where we only need 1-3 hard-wired Ethernet ports, and don't need full GigE, we're actually starting to investigate usingRaspberry Pi 3s . (More and more often now, 802.11n/ac wireless is the primary connection medium for a lot of our client devices, so less need these days for wired Ethernet.) The RPi3 includes 802.11n, 10/100 ethernet, 4-port USB 2.0 (supporting Eth-to-USB converters), and Bluetooth low-power - all standard. Cost is incredibly cheap - just $35 qty 1, plus some small change for whatever you decide you need for a case and PSU. And their performance is astonishingly high - no firm benchmarks yet that I've seen, but looks like it's going to pen out at ~50% faster than the net6501-70 on single-threaded tasks, and even more on multi-threaded ones (given it has four (!) cores [*] ). At those price/performance numbers, it becomes harder and harder to justify a platinum-priced, zero-support, non-updated-in-umpteen-years platform like Soekris. (One might argue the Soekris is more robustly built - whatever that means in the Real World, given all the failure reports here - but the price of a single net6501-70 will buy over a half-dozen RPi 3s to have around as spares, including extra cases and PSUs. ) We haven't quantified the real power consumption yet, but everything points to the RPi 3 using less, sometimes a LOT less, juice than the net6501. We'll post our experiences as we evaluate and test. >> "I'm disappointed to find that Soekris has been so quite about these problems. If this was a preventable >> heat issue with the CPU, I'm doubly disappointed since I asked about CPU power management when >> I first got the boards. Soekris provided no solution but to run the CPUs at full power when they're very >> capable of running at much lower power with "normal" intel BIOS configurations." Yup. We are pretty well through with Soekris at this point unless there's no other choice, given the hardware reliability (witness this thread), zero communication, and total lack of updates (hardware, bios, and documentation). And that's all before the hugely out-of-whack price/performance/power ratio is considered. We can also get support in a heartbeat from literally thousands of expert users of the platform - quite different. David [[ * See: https://blog.pivotal.io/labs/labs/faster-soekris-net6501-raspberry-pi - a 2013 comparison with between the old RaspPi Model B vs the Soekris 6501-70. Soekris at that time was 1.7x the speed of a RPi model B for a single-threaded task. But the new RPi 3 is 2.5x+ faster than the model B for single-threads and 3x+ faster for multiple-threads, so given those numbers it's reasonable to think it's going to be 50% faster than the net6501-70 in the real world, at a bare minimum.]] On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 3:33 AM, Ben Kochie wrote: > > We endedup replacing our soekris boards being used as routers with VyOS with Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite since we only needed 2 router ports for this install. We used a 1U bracket so we could install 2 of them in 1U, saving a bit of space. > > https://www.rfarmor.com/index.php/toughswitch-mounts/1uurspoe.html > > I'm disappointed to find that Soekris has been so quite about these problems. If this was a preventable heat issue with the CPU, I'm doubly disappointed since I asked about CPU power management when I first got the boards. Soekris provided no solution but to run the CPUs at full power when they're very capable of running at much lower power with "normal" intel BIOS configurations. > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Andreas Steinel wrote: >> Hi Scott, >> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Scott Gustafson < sc...@garlicsoftware.com> wrote: >>> Can anyone on the list share which vendor, model, and OS to which they >>> have switched? >> >> We switched to APU Boards >> http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Dying net6501 servers
Apologies for the update to the fossilized thread here, but another very-close-to-home data point. Our last remaining net6501 died week before last - it refused to boot, had no console message, and would only show the red error light. We RMA'd it to Soekris but they replied with a terse, "sorry, can't repair, and also out of warranty". This unit saw only light duty in a cool environment, was run with a Soekris-supplied PSU on a good AC line filter, had the bigger (aluminum) heatsink from day one, and was deliberately _underclocked_ to 600mhz for its whole life (for power consumption and supposed reliability). The case also had an active cooling fan in it the entire time and the CPU temp was monitored regularly. Unless we could have fed it milk and cookies we couldn't have babied it more than we did - and yet it's still mysteriously dead and unfixable as so many others are. Thanks all for the alternative replacement strategy ideas (below). We will likely be buying SuperMicros in the short-term, but really think the Raspberry Pi 3 idea has a lot of potential if we can get the IO working (time to bone up on VLAN-fu here). cheers, David On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 5:18 PM, David Ruggiero wrote: You might laugh, but for embedded applications where we only need 1-3 hard-wired Ethernet ports, and don't need full GigE, we're actually starting to investigate usingRaspberry Pi 3s . (More and more often now, 802.11n/ac wireless is the primary connection medium for a lot of our client devices, so less need these days for wired Ethernet.) The RPi3 includes 802.11n, 10/100 ethernet, 4-port USB 2.0 (supporting Eth-to-USB converters), and Bluetooth low-power - all standard. Cost is incredibly cheap - just $35 qty 1, plus some small change for whatever you decide you need for a case and PSU. And their performance is astonishingly high - no firm benchmarks yet that I've seen, but looks like it's going to pen out at ~50% faster than the net6501-70 on single-threaded tasks, and even more on multi-threaded ones (given it has four (!) cores [*] ). At those price/performance numbers, it becomes harder and harder to justify a platinum-priced, zero-support, non-updated-in-umpteen-years platform like Soekris. (One might argue the Soekris is more robustly built - whatever that means in the Real World, given all the failure reports here - but the price of a single net6501-70 will buy over a half-dozen RPi 3s to have around as spares, including extra cases and PSUs. ) We haven't quantified the real power consumption yet, but everything points to the RPi 3 using less, sometimes a LOT less, juice than the net6501. We'll post our experiences as we evaluate and test. > >> "I'm disappointed to find that Soekris has been so quite about these problems. If this was a preventable > >> heat issue with the CPU, I'm doubly disappointed since I asked about CPU power management when > >> I first got the boards. Soekris provided no solution but to run the CPUs at full power when they're very > >> capable of running at much lower power with "normal" intel BIOS configurations." Yup. We are pretty well through with Soekris at this point unless there's no other choice, given the hardware reliability (witness this thread), zero communication, and total lack of updates (hardware, bios, and documentation). And that's all before the hugely out-of-whack price/performance/power ratio is considered. We can also get support in a heartbeat from literally thousands of expert users of the platform - quite different. [[ * See: https://blog.pivotal.io/labs/labs/faster-soekris-net6501-raspberry-pi - a 2013 comparison with between the old RaspPi Model B vs the Soekris 6501-70. Soekris at that time was 1.7x the speed of a RPi model B for a single-threaded task. But the new RPi 3 is 2.5x+ faster than the model B for single-threads and 3x+ faster for multiple-threads, so given those numbers it's reasonable to think it's going to be 50% faster than the net6501-70 in the real world, at a bare minimum.]] > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 3:33 AM, Ben Kochie wrote: > > We endedup replacing our soekris boards being used as routers with VyOS with Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite since we only needed 2 router ports for this install. We used a 1U bracket so we could install 2 of them in 1U, saving a bit of space. > > https://www.rfarmor.com/index.php/toughswitch-mounts/1uurspoe.html > > I'm disappointed to find that Soekris has been so quite about these problems. If this was a preventable heat issue with the CPU, I'm doubly disappointed since I asked about CPU power management when I first got the boards. Soekris provided no solution but to run the CPUs at full power when they're very capable of running at much lower power with "normal" intel BIOS configura
Re: [Soekris] net6501: doesn't start if not first unplugged for 8 minutes
> "The net6501 seems to have this sort of problem, and it’s fatal. At some point your box will likely > stop booting entirely. [...] The root cause of death is not well understood, at least not by anyone > outside of Soekris. There does not seem to be a cure. The 5501 by comparison seems almost > impossible to kill." I've some speculation on what is happening behind the scenes here; it could be dead-on - or completely wacko. I don't expect anyone to wade through this whole posting, as it's way too long (though there is a two-sentence TL;DR version at the bottom). Putting it out there, though, just in case a future someone is piecing together the puzzle together and finds it helpful. So: Let's take what we either know as fact, or can pretty reliably believe to be true, and speculate from there: 1) Soren K / Soekris clearly has the ability to design and manufacture stable, reliable systems - witness every Soekris product before the net6501. 2) Yet...the net6501 has a maddening, common failure mode, one so severe the board is totally bricked, without recourse, even if it was running perfectly minutes beforehand. 3) No one understands the root causes of the failure, and Soekris has been extraordinarily close-lipped about it, in these forums and elsewhere. No explanations whatsoever. Total silence even as reports of the dead boards mount mount and their reputation looks worse and worse. Doesn't make sense. 4) Data point A: If you send a dead board back to Soekris _in_ the warranty period, it will be quickly replaced without question. Data point B: If you send a dead board back to Soekris _out_ of warranty, for diagnosis and repair, it will simply be returned as "can't be fixed". Data point C: When you inquire _why_ it can't be fixed - after all, aren't components, even board-level ones, ultimately replaceable? - you won't get any answer at all. They'll just tell you... "we're really sorry, wish we could, we can't.". End of story. 5) Last year, Soekris suddenly and with very little explanation cancelled development of a new Intel-Atom-based board - what would have been the net6801. 6) Intel had/has a severe problem with clock chips in other embedded Atom CPU products (but supposedly, not the Atom E6xx the net6501 uses - see: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/06/cisco_intel_de cline_to_link_product_warning_to_faulty_chip/ ) This clock chip failure is so severe that it can kill the system it's being used in completely. SOI'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest one speculative scenario that pulls together all of the above and explains the net6501 and Soekris's actions around it. Note carefully that I have no association with Soekris nor Intel whatsoever, except as a customer of both; this speculation is constructed with absolutely zero "inside" information. A) The net6501 brickings we see are due to a similar - or identical - Intel clock chip degradation issue as the C2000 embedded Atom chip had. The failure is extreme and can't be patched around by simple mods to hardware or firmware; it's 'baked in' to the product. B) Soekris knows this. Intel privately admits this to them. C) Intel, wanting to avoid the bad publicity that would result from their component's failure when used in a supposedly "super reliable" machine built entirely around it, makes a simple deal with Soekris: we'll pay the costs of ALL warranty replacements for your boards that die due to our chip biting the dust. And further, pay for you to scrap your current inventory with the bad part. D) Soekris accepts, and pays nothing for Intel's failure. They get what amounts to a huge settlement for such a small company, without spending big on lawyer fees or waiting for years to get the dough. Their future liability for dead net6501 is now zero. E) In return, Intel pays out what (for them) amounts to change found their couch cushions - it's a trivial amount. More importantly, since it's only agreeing to reimburse Soekris for in-warranty items, its financial exposure is strictly limited - it ends exactly three years from when Soekris sold the last bad-Intel-part board. (Public corporation accountants *love* closed-end liabilities.) Everyone's happy... F) except for: the Faustian bargain Soekris had to make with Intel's horde of lawyers to have the above happen. As a condition of accepting the above pile o' cash and shielding themselves from crippling warranty returns payouts, Soekris signs in blood that they will to maintain 1001% silence on the issue and the nature - or even existence! - of their agreement with Intel. They're allowed to make NO mention of *why* their boards are dying prematurely. Never, ever. Not even a HINT. They have to keep clam forever - or else the money spigot dries up and/or they get sued into oblivion. G) So...Soekris quietly replaces the net6501s that Intel gives them hard cash to take care of, and regretfully ignores the rest. Their bank account remains intact - but at the cost o
Re: [Soekris] net6501: doesn't start if not first unplugged for 8 minutes
> Maybe it's just me ... but this is the part that I find unlikely. Why > would a huge company like Intel do that? They already admitted that a > similar problem exists in related chipsets. I fully agree - weakest part of my argument. Why would Intel care about a customer whose total chip purchases amount to a rounding error in their yearly embedded system sales? Seems like they could just say "too bad". Of course, it works the other way, too - Soekris is so small that the cost of buying their silence was minimal, and perhaps their marketroids thought it better to put the small fire out and get it behind them. Still, it's odd, but I couldn't come up with any better explanation. Also definitely think it's possible that Soekris is just resting on its laurels and riding it out until Soren retires. Maybe they have huge government/OEM contracts that take care of paying the bills with much less hassle than the onesie-and-twosie retail market (e.g. their boards are used in some of the early versions of the Kiva / Amazon warehouse robots: http://robohub.org/meet-the-drone-that-already-delivers-your-packages-kiva- robot-teardown/ ). /DR/ ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
[Soekris] net6501 battery polarity?
Request for a favor from the list: can someone with a net6501 (if any out there still work :) pull out a voltmeter and let me know which direction the CMOS battery faces? Is the battery positive pole towards the small cap (red and white on my board) or the other way (towards the row of four ethernet transceivers)? Or put another way, if you hold the board so the row of LEDs is down and the row of ethernet ports is up, is the positive pole of the battery to the right or the left? (Long story but I need to put a new one on my remaining board here and I've forgotten which way it faces. Note to self: ALWAYS TAKE PICTURES FIRST, *THEN* pull out the soldering iron...) many thanks. david ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
