Re: Pretty OT :)

[Pierre Schiller]

Erick knows... (Y)
For the time being, I was refering to u4=maya as they both have strange
workflows. I.e. importig a skeleton mesh on one file, then the object's
mesh from another.
They decided it is the best worklow to pile up things, that really should
only show 1 file with it's hierarchy

But ohh...let's make this complex...yeah...that button:import MESH, and if
it contains a skeleton, nah, sorry that's gotta be filed on another folder.
Conceiving unique skeleton anims/rigs for enemy bosses, well..sorry 6
legged rig sleleton is parted from a 6 meshed char...just in case a biped
wants to use animation...yeah...let's make the importing dialgue be this
standard...

One goes to think:whatta?
On Aug 27, 2015 7:31 AM, "Eric Turman"  wrote:

> Blueprints strike me as nothing more ground breaking than node-based
> prefabs--gimicky; I'm not sold. For the time being, I'm sticking with the
> more generalized platform of Unity.
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Nicolas Esposito <3dv...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> UE4 like Maya? you kidding?
>>
>> Unity philosophy, if you want to create basic stuff, is "You have to code
>> that" or "There is a plugin for that" which can be applied to both Maya and
>> Max...Blueprints in UE4 is one of the greatest thing I could've hope for
>> since Unity is all expect artist friendly :)
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> -=T=-
>

Re: Friday Flashback #238

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

> I remember opening a softimage 3D asset in the DS timeline, and changing the
> texture placement on it, and having it re-render, right there in the editing
> timeline, with mental ray - 15 years ago. It wasn’t all that useful, but it
> hinted of some very exciting future links between 3D and editing/comp.

Did you dream it?  DS never really had that, they always dreamed of
having mental ray or importing 3D scenes.

In 1997 there was a pre-Sumatra demo shown around where you could
create a "3D" clip on the timeline and paint on it, that was built
using Softimage|3D.  It never passed the prototype stage.  At one
point a colleague  put the dotXSI viewer as a plugin in DS and that
was a demo which AFAIK never shipped.  You could do basic 3D with the
built-in "Marquee" tool in DS - a product Avid acquired - that's it.
All of these were OpenGL only.

That said, you were able to import Softimage|3D scenes in Eddie and
render them in there.

> But then Avid drove a wedge between DS and XSI,

Avid wasn't smart enough to scheme like that and AFAIK didn't do any
such thing.  Early on, we couldn't get anything done with the source
code constantly changing by another team with their own priorities
while we were trying to wind down and ship, so we branched out.

After XSI V1.0, it was very difficult to consider merging back because
it's emergencies after emergencies, and XSI wasn't made to run inside
other application so it took over a lot of things that DS has other
ideas for, and there were conflicting changes in both branches.  Also
their code version was increasingly not portable back to unix,
something they don't care about.  And it something would lead them to
their demise as they couldn't port anything to Mac where Avid wanted
to be.

And we disagreed on many things.  For example, the DS team wanting to
control all the UI like the FCurve editor, but wanting to be focus on
non-animators, or controlling the architecture of operators to conform
it to their vision.   So you're trying to make a 3D animation product,
but you have to negotiate with another team that wants you do to
things for them and their clients.  You have to explain, justify and
negotiate everything.  Same thing for the mixer UI or the rendertree,
they wanted to own that, but on their own terms.

The principles of DS is that DS provides everything as shared service
(ex: the FCurve editor, toolbars, menu, hotkey mapping, etc) and then
you can plug your mini-app in it as a plug-in, a clip on its timeline.
Only one such third party plugin was ever made, Toonz.

In retrospect it's DS that should have been built on XSI, not the
reverse - but DS shipped 2 years before XSI v1.0.   Because 3D apps
have become frameworks, XSI is the one that's the superset, with
scripting, expressions, construction history, lots of viewport tools,
etc.  But in DS team's mind, the NLE market was 100 times bigger and
the 3D market is shrinking, so it should be up to the 3D team to
follow, not the reverse.  Different points of views!

In any case, nowadays it's kind of illogical to think of a Softimage
as a plugin for a video editing app.  The 3D app is going to be bigger
and more ambitious in scope than an NLE app that's just got a
timeline/compositing/vectorpaint/video capture and text.  And in fact,
as you know XSI almost has all of that without any help from DS.

Re: Friday Flashback #238

[Matt Lind]

If memory serves, the main reason for splitting DS and XSI was 
architectural, not sales driven.  XSI needed more than DS could provide, and 
vice versa.  Each application also needed to go in directions that didn't 
make sense for the other.  'Twister' was split for the incompatibility 
reasons as well.


Yes, very exciting but unfulfilled dream.  What should've been.


Matt




Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:40:20 +0200
From: 
Subject: Re: Friday Flashback #238
To: 

ah
DS discontinued by Avid and XSI discontinued by AD.
and what?s there to fill that particular void?

they shared architecture and interface to a degree, and both had some very 
interesting forward thinking (visionary?) concepts at their origin.
I remember opening a softimage 3D asset in the DS timeline, and changing the 
texture placement on it, and having it re-render, right there in the editing 
timeline, with mental ray - 15 years ago. It wasn?t all that useful, but it 
hinted of some very exciting future links between 3D and editing/comp.
But then Avid drove a wedge between DS and XSI, pushing DS into a very 
awkward position in the Avid portfolio, and XSI into a kind of no mans land 
? like an unwanted child they ended up with, not knowing what to do with. 
Somehow, that child managed to survive Avid and even start to show promise, 
then got sold off to AD, and even survived that and prospered. A while.


I guess the industry as a whole didn?t need that integrated Digital Studio, 
and few really used DS and XSI in tandem - but I feel we are all the poorer 
without it.
Sure, there?s some interesting convergence happening between 3D and comp 
these days ? but how I miss that particular Softimage spin on it.

Re: Friday Flashback #238

[Jason S]

  
  
I too wouldnt be surprised something
  would come out of the Nk/Modo relationship, (a question of time?)
  
  
  And indeed at least for now, is 3D in nuke not just a little bit
  clunky.
  
  Doesn't need to be like complete DCC tools, but things like
  managing, manipulating and fixing projections, parenting things
  (sounds silly but) and other relationships.
  (very very clunky for now)
  
  On 08/28/15 16:54, Jordi Bares Dominguez wrote:


  
  The future is around the corner, we just need to
look at the right place.
  
  
  Nuke and its ever expanding 3D capabilities
integrated into the NukeStudio and Mari is in my opinion the
natural evolution, albeit clunky still, but certainly
interesting enough for me to invest my time. If you add on top
of that Modo is becoming a serious contender, there is a sense
of things to come that I guess was where DS+XSI were heading
into, ahead of its time for sure were 3D was not what it is
today, a semi-mechanised industry.
  
  
  jb
  
  
  
  
  

  On 28 Aug 2015, at 21:40, pete...@skynet.be wrote:
  
  

  

  ah
  DS discontinued by Avid and XSI
discontinued by AD.
  and what’s there to fill that particular
void?
   
  they shared architecture and interface
to a degree, and both had some very interesting
forward thinking (visionary?) concepts at their
origin.
  I remember opening a softimage 3D asset
in the DS timeline, and changing the texture
placement on it, and having it re-render, right
there in the editing timeline, with mental ray - 15
years ago. It wasn’t all that useful, but it hinted
of some very exciting future links between 3D and
editing/comp. 
  But then Avid drove a wedge between DS
and XSI, pushing DS into a very awkward position in
the Avid portfolio, and XSI into a kind of no mans
land – like an unwanted child they ended up with,
not knowing what to do with. Somehow, that child
managed to survive Avid and even start to show
promise, then got sold off to AD, and even survived
that and prospered. A while.
   
  I guess the industry as a whole didn’t
need that integrated Digital Studio, and few really
used DS and XSI in tandem - but I feel we are all
the poorer without it.
  Sure, there’s some interesting
convergence happening between 3D and comp these days
– but how I miss that particular Softimage spin on
it.
   
   
  

   
  
From: Stephen Blair 
Sent: Friday,
  August 28, 2015 9:58 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Friday
  Flashback #238
  

 
  
  
SOFTIMAGE|DS: Originality
  distinguishes art from craft
  http://wp.me/powV4-3dT
 
  

  

  

  

  
  


  

Re: Friday Flashback #238

[Jordi Bares Dominguez]

The future is around the corner, we just need to look at the right place.

Nuke and its ever expanding 3D capabilities integrated into the NukeStudio and 
Mari is in my opinion the natural evolution, albeit clunky still, but certainly 
interesting enough for me to invest my time. If you add on top of that Modo is 
becoming a serious contender, there is a sense of things to come that I guess 
was where DS+XSI were heading into, ahead of its time for sure were 3D was not 
what it is today, a semi-mechanised industry.

jb


> On 28 Aug 2015, at 21:40, pete...@skynet.be wrote:
> 
> ah
> DS discontinued by Avid and XSI discontinued by AD.
> and what’s there to fill that particular void?
>  
> they shared architecture and interface to a degree, and both had some very 
> interesting forward thinking (visionary?) concepts at their origin.
> I remember opening a softimage 3D asset in the DS timeline, and changing the 
> texture placement on it, and having it re-render, right there in the editing 
> timeline, with mental ray - 15 years ago. It wasn’t all that useful, but it 
> hinted of some very exciting future links between 3D and editing/comp.
> But then Avid drove a wedge between DS and XSI, pushing DS into a very 
> awkward position in the Avid portfolio, and XSI into a kind of no mans land – 
> like an unwanted child they ended up with, not knowing what to do with. 
> Somehow, that child managed to survive Avid and even start to show promise, 
> then got sold off to AD, and even survived that and prospered. A while.
>  
> I guess the industry as a whole didn’t need that integrated Digital Studio, 
> and few really used DS and XSI in tandem - but I feel we are all the poorer 
> without it.
> Sure, there’s some interesting convergence happening between 3D and comp 
> these days – but how I miss that particular Softimage spin on it.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Stephen Blair 
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 9:58 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
> Subject: Friday Flashback #238
>  
> SOFTIMAGE|DS: Originality distinguishes art from craft
> http://wp.me/powV4-3dT 
>  

Re: Friday Flashback #238

[peter_b]

ah
DS discontinued by Avid and XSI discontinued by AD.
and what’s there to fill that particular void?

they shared architecture and interface to a degree, and both had some very 
interesting forward thinking (visionary?) concepts at their origin.
I remember opening a softimage 3D asset in the DS timeline, and changing the 
texture placement on it, and having it re-render, right there in the editing 
timeline, with mental ray - 15 years ago. It wasn’t all that useful, but it 
hinted of some very exciting future links between 3D and editing/comp. 
But then Avid drove a wedge between DS and XSI, pushing DS into a very awkward 
position in the Avid portfolio, and XSI into a kind of no mans land – like an 
unwanted child they ended up with, not knowing what to do with. Somehow, that 
child managed to survive Avid and even start to show promise, then got sold off 
to AD, and even survived that and prospered. A while.

I guess the industry as a whole didn’t need that integrated Digital Studio, and 
few really used DS and XSI in tandem - but I feel we are all the poorer without 
it.
Sure, there’s some interesting convergence happening between 3D and comp these 
days – but how I miss that particular Softimage spin on it.



From: Stephen Blair 
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 9:58 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
Subject: Friday Flashback #238

SOFTIMAGE|DS: Originality distinguishes art from craft 
http://wp.me/powV4-3dT

Friday Flashback #238

[Stephen Blair]

SOFTIMAGE|DS: Originality distinguishes art from craft
http://wp.me/powV4-3dT

Re: Multi-Layered .EXR - The revival...

[Jason S]

  
  

  Indeed so it seems!  
  
  and still looks very new because each renderer's output options
  (at least in the docs) make no mention of "interleave options" or
  the like.
  
  So I wonder what are generally the defaults for Multichannel EXR
  outputs. (hum...)
  
  
  On 08/28/15 8:36, Jens Lindgren wrote:


  
Yeah you're right. But just using exr 2.x isn't enough to
  ensure multi-layered files are read fast. You have to save the
  exr in a specific way.


From Nukes help:
  


  Notes
on Rendering OpenEXR Files
  Nuke supports multi-part OpenEXR 2.0.1
files, which allow you to store your channels, layers, and
views in separate parts of the file. Storing the data this
way can make loading .exr files faster, as Nuke
only has to access the part of the file that is requested
rather than all parts. However, for backwards compatibility,
you also have the option to render your .exr files
as single-part images.
  To set how the data is stored in your rendered .exr
file, open the Write properties and set interleave
to:
  • channels, layers and views
- Write channels, layers, and views into the same part of
the rendered .exr file. This creates a single-part
file to ensure backwards compatibility with earlier versions
of Nuke and other applications using an older
OpenEXR library.
  • channels and layers -
Write channels and layers into the same part of the rendered
.exr file, but separate views into their own part.
This creates a multi-part file and can speed up Read
performance, as Nuke only has to access the
part of the file that is requested rather than all parts.
  • channels - Separate
channels, layers, and views into their own parts of the
rendered .exr file. This creates a multi-part file
and can speed up Read performance if you work with only a
few layers at a time.



So to have the same speed with multi-layered exr that you
  have with separate exr files, you have to use exr 2.x and only
  then you have the choice to save a file in what Nuke call channels
and layers (fast) or channels (faster) mode.
  But this breaks backwards compatibility so the files can not
  be opened in applications that don't support exr 2.
  
  
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Jason
  S 
  wrote:
  

     
     On 08/27/15 8:44, Jens
  Lindgren wrote:
     This slowness is solved with EXR 2.0 but
  Softimage isn't using that.
  
 Correction:   MentalRay in SI may
not be using that,

but Arnold, Redshift, and 3Delight in
SI do   (among many other updates)

Including things like VDB support etc...
(None of which would have happened had there not been
any usage/demand (more than a year post EOL)

Recent changes (2015) for Arnold & 3Delight for
Softimage, 
(Redshift updates would just be too long to list)


Arnold for Softimage

  3.8 July 13, 2015


  Faster export times overall on Windows (up to 20%
faster).

  
  Faster export of polygon meshes (up to 35%
faster).

  
  Much faster export of ICE instances (up to 5x
faster) and ICE primitive cylinders, discs, cones,
boxes (up to 3x faster).

  
  Faster rendering when using SItoA shaders on
Windows (up to 15% faster).
  


  3.7 June 10 2015


  Faster cutout texture mapped opacity, with more
accurate renders (in previous versions, an object
was rendered more transparent when it was further
away from the camera). 

  
  Multiple scattering for volumes: Indirect light in
volumes now supports an arbitrary number of bounces
i

Re: Multi-Layered .EXR - The revival...

[Jens Lindgren]

Yeah you're right. But just using exr 2.x isn't enough to ensure
multi-layered files are read fast. You have to save the exr in a specific
way.

>From Nukes help:

Notes on Rendering OpenEXR Files

Nuke supports multi-part OpenEXR 2.0.1 files, which allow you to store your
channels, layers, and views in separate parts of the file. Storing the data
this way can make loading *.exr* files faster, as Nuke only has to access
the part of the file that is requested rather than all parts. However, for
backwards compatibility, you also have the option to render your *.exr*
files as single-part images.

To set how the data is stored in your rendered *.exr* file, open the Write
properties and set *interleave* to:

• *channels, layers and views* - Write channels, layers, and views into the
same part of the rendered *.exr* file. This creates a single-part file to
ensure backwards compatibility with earlier versions of Nuke and other
applications using an older OpenEXR library.

• *channels and layers* - Write channels and layers into the same part of
the rendered *.exr* file, but separate views into their own part. This
creates a multi-part file and can speed up Read performance, as Nuke only
has to access the part of the file that is requested rather than all parts.

• *channels* - Separate channels, layers, and views into their own parts of
the rendered *.exr* file. This creates a multi-part file and can speed up
Read performance if you work with only a few layers at a time.


So to have the same speed with multi-layered exr that you have with
separate exr files, you have to use exr 2.x and only then you have the
choice to save a file in what Nuke call *channels and layers *(fast) or
*channels* (faster) mode. But this breaks backwards compatibility so the
files can not be opened in applications that don't support exr 2.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Jason S  wrote:

>
>
> *   On 08/27/15 8:44, Jens Lindgren wrote:This slowness is solved with
> EXR 2.0 but Softimage isn't using that.*
>
> Correction:   *MentalRay* in SI may not be using that,
>
> but* Arnold*, *Redshift*, and *3Delight *in SI *do*   (among many other
> updates)
>
> Including things like VDB support etc...
> (None of which would have happened had there not been any usage/demand
> (more than a year post EOL)
>
> Recent changes (2015) for Arnold & 3Delight for Softimage,
> (Redshift updates would just be too long to list)
>
>
> *Arnold for Softimage *
>
> *3.8* July 13, 2015
>
>- Faster export times overall on Windows (up to 20% faster).
>
>- Faster export of polygon meshes (up to 35% faster).
>
>- Much faster export of ICE instances (up to 5x faster) and ICE
>primitive cylinders, discs, cones, boxes (up to 3x faster).
>
>- Faster rendering when using SItoA shaders on Windows (up to 15%
>faster).
>
> *3.7* June 10 2015
>
>- Faster cutout texture mapped opacity, with more accurate renders (in
>previous versions, an object was rendered more transparent when it was
>further away from the camera).
>
>- Multiple scattering for volumes: Indirect light in volumes now
>supports an arbitrary number of bounces instead of being fixed to one
>bounce.
>
>- Per-light volume contribution: A volume contribution scaling
>parameter was added to lights, similar to the existing diffuse and specular
>parameters.
>
>- Deep volume output support: Volumes are now visible in deep renders
>(note that older atmosphere shaders and volumetric mattes are not
>supported yet).
>
>- The volume property now shows the names of available grids in VDB
>files.
>
>- Faster UDIMs: UDIMs accessed through the built-in image shader node
>now internally use texture handles, which helps improve multi-threading
>performance.
>
> *3.6*  April 27 2015
>
>- Optimized volume rendering
>- Fixed long-standing artifacts with large ray marching steps
>- Faster volume caches (such as OpenVDB) in IPR
>
> *3.5* March 09 2015
>
>- Transmission component in the hair shader.
>- Support for the Volume primitive as a property and volume_sample
>shaders added. Mattes now work with volumes as well.
>
> *3.4* January 16 2015
>
>- Faster Curves and Volumes.
>- Opacity controls added to the Skin Shader.
>- The autobump detail enhancement now works for procedurally displaced
>polymeshes even when there are no UV texture coordinates.
>
>
>
>
> *3Delight for Softimage
> *
> *Changelog *
>
> *4.0.49 - 2015-07-24*
>
>- OpenVDB.
>- Fixed output to Preview window when all the Render Channels are
>disabled.
>- All the lights are hidden and the raytracing is disabled when Main
>Render Channel is not enabled.
>- Display first enabled Render Channel in the Preview window (it was
>uncond