Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
It's interesting alright, especially for Newtek, but I have an enormously sensitive bullshit alert when it comes to their output,having started with lightwave in 1999 and had far too many years of utter disappointment. Hopefully it's doing something valuable and new. It's always good to have something different available, but I've been cried wolf to so many times by them I can't help but be cynical. It's a shame they are pre-selling it without a demo to try - Core style, and the teaser is pretty vague on what it's actually doing. I still bet it's underneath all the fast geom handling etc it pretty much providing a world-space shape offset. On 24 Jul 2013, at 04:40, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Sure, they have to prove themselves, doesn't mean what they're showing isn't interesting or is trivial. Just what's shown in the demo is something that, outside of some propietary solutions which are unlikely to be as polished, is not available to anyone. Just delivering a stable version of what they show and nothing else with a decent stability and at the right price point would be interesting enough to at least try the demo for. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Sam sbowl...@cox.net wrote: From my experiences Newtek products never live up to the hype and sometimes never materialize even after selling licenses to customers. I gave up on anything Newtek has to offer long ago. From anyone else might get excited about something like this, but Newtek has failed to deliver on so many times I would be a fool to get sucked into their hype machine again. Did they ever add an undo to their Dope sheet editor? I fondly remember having to reload my last save whenever I would accidentally change or delete the wrong thing in the editor….
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
If nothing else it pushes the boundaries and get other 3d apps thinking about different ways of doing things. Personally I feel the main players have become a little stale when it comes to major leaps forward. For the moment the only fresh development ideas are coming from the 3rd party folks . e.g. Creation Engine etc. From: Bk p...@bustykelp.commailto:p...@bustykelp.com Reply-To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Date: Wednesday 24 July 2013 9:49 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: OT: ChronoSculpt It's interesting alright, especially for Newtek, but I have an enormously sensitive bullshit alert when it comes to their output,having started with lightwave in 1999 and had far too many years of utter disappointment. Hopefully it's doing something valuable and new. It's always good to have something different available, but I've been cried wolf to so many times by them I can't help but be cynical. It's a shame they are pre-selling it without a demo to try - Core style, and the teaser is pretty vague on what it's actually doing. I still bet it's underneath all the fast geom handling etc it pretty much providing a world-space shape offset. On 24 Jul 2013, at 04:40, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Sure, they have to prove themselves, doesn't mean what they're showing isn't interesting or is trivial. Just what's shown in the demo is something that, outside of some propietary solutions which are unlikely to be as polished, is not available to anyone. Just delivering a stable version of what they show and nothing else with a decent stability and at the right price point would be interesting enough to at least try the demo for. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Sam sbowl...@cox.netmailto:sbowl...@cox.net wrote: From my experiences Newtek products never live up to the hype and sometimes never materialize even after selling licenses to customers. I gave up on anything Newtek has to offer long ago. From anyone else might get excited about something like this, but Newtek has failed to deliver on so many times I would be a fool to get sucked into their hype machine again. Did they ever add an undo to their Dope sheet editor? I fondly remember having to reload my last save whenever I would accidentally change or delete the wrong thing in the editor…. table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
Hadn't seen the pre-sale part. Well, that I too would be hugely skeptical about. I wouldn't trust NT with a bottle of milk, let alone hundreds of bucks of credit on a promise. Not after core and the 180. The software though has potential, and seems fresh enough. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Bk p...@bustykelp.com wrote: It's interesting alright, especially for Newtek, but I have an enormously sensitive bullshit alert when it comes to their output,having started with lightwave in 1999 and had far too many years of utter disappointment. Hopefully it's doing something valuable and new. It's always good to have something different available, but I've been cried wolf to so many times by them I can't help but be cynical. It's a shame they are pre-selling it without a demo to try - Core style, and the teaser is pretty vague on what it's actually doing. I still bet it's underneath all the fast geom handling etc it pretty much providing a world-space shape offset. On 24 Jul 2013, at 04:40, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Sure, they have to prove themselves, doesn't mean what they're showing isn't interesting or is trivial. Just what's shown in the demo is something that, outside of some propietary solutions which are unlikely to be as polished, is not available to anyone. Just delivering a stable version of what they show and nothing else with a decent stability and at the right price point would be interesting enough to at least try the demo for. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Sam sbowl...@cox.net wrote: From my experiences Newtek products never live up to the hype and sometimes never materialize even after selling licenses to customers. I gave up on anything Newtek has to offer long ago. From anyone else might get excited about something like this, but Newtek has failed to deliver on so many times I would be a fool to get sucked into their hype machine again. Did they ever add an undo to their Dope sheet editor? I fondly remember having to reload my last save whenever I would accidentally change or delete the wrong thing in the editor…. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
Very interesting. I've definitely seen some of these ideas like sculpt over time done before with proprietary tools but nowhere as slick and effortless as it appears in the demo at least. I could definitely see this used in a CFX/Tech Anim pipeline with some success! On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Hadn't seen the pre-sale part. Well, that I too would be hugely skeptical about. I wouldn't trust NT with a bottle of milk, let alone hundreds of bucks of credit on a promise. Not after core and the 180. The software though has potential, and seems fresh enough. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Bk p...@bustykelp.com wrote: It's interesting alright, especially for Newtek, but I have an enormously sensitive bullshit alert when it comes to their output,having started with lightwave in 1999 and had far too many years of utter disappointment. Hopefully it's doing something valuable and new. It's always good to have something different available, but I've been cried wolf to so many times by them I can't help but be cynical. It's a shame they are pre-selling it without a demo to try - Core style, and the teaser is pretty vague on what it's actually doing. I still bet it's underneath all the fast geom handling etc it pretty much providing a world-space shape offset. On 24 Jul 2013, at 04:40, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Sure, they have to prove themselves, doesn't mean what they're showing isn't interesting or is trivial. Just what's shown in the demo is something that, outside of some propietary solutions which are unlikely to be as polished, is not available to anyone. Just delivering a stable version of what they show and nothing else with a decent stability and at the right price point would be interesting enough to at least try the demo for. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Sam sbowl...@cox.net wrote: From my experiences Newtek products never live up to the hype and sometimes never materialize even after selling licenses to customers. I gave up on anything Newtek has to offer long ago. From anyone else might get excited about something like this, but Newtek has failed to deliver on so many times I would be a fool to get sucked into their hype machine again. Did they ever add an undo to their Dope sheet editor? I fondly remember having to reload my last save whenever I would accidentally change or delete the wrong thing in the editor…. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- Technical Director @ DreamWorks Animation
RE: OT: ChronoSculpt
i for one welcome our new(Tek) overlords bottom line, how many wasted hours have you spent trying to get simulation 'just right' this is a great toolset for that finishing, 3am tweak before delivery lets hope it performs like the canned demo, or that the Fabric guys copy (and improve on) the functionality and sell us a module ;o) a _ From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Serguei Kalentchouk Sent: 24 July 2013 09:45 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: OT: ChronoSculpt Very interesting. I've definitely seen some of these ideas like sculpt over time done before with proprietary tools but nowhere as slick and effortless as it appears in the demo at least. I could definitely see this used in a CFX/Tech Anim pipeline with some success! On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Hadn't seen the pre-sale part. Well, that I too would be hugely skeptical about. I wouldn't trust NT with a bottle of milk, let alone hundreds of bucks of credit on a promise. Not after core and the 180. The software though has potential, and seems fresh enough. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Bk p...@bustykelp.com wrote: It's interesting alright, especially for Newtek, but I have an enormously sensitive bullshit alert when it comes to their output,having started with lightwave in 1999 and had far too many years of utter disappointment. Hopefully it's doing something valuable and new. It's always good to have something different available, but I've been cried wolf to so many times by them I can't help but be cynical. It's a shame they are pre-selling it without a demo to try - Core style, and the teaser is pretty vague on what it's actually doing. I still bet it's underneath all the fast geom handling etc it pretty much providing a world-space shape offset. On 24 Jul 2013, at 04:40, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Sure, they have to prove themselves, doesn't mean what they're showing isn't interesting or is trivial. Just what's shown in the demo is something that, outside of some propietary solutions which are unlikely to be as polished, is not available to anyone. Just delivering a stable version of what they show and nothing else with a decent stability and at the right price point would be interesting enough to at least try the demo for. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Sam sbowl...@cox.net wrote: From my experiences Newtek products never live up to the hype and sometimes never materialize even after selling licenses to customers. I gave up on anything Newtek has to offer long ago. From anyone else might get excited about something like this, but Newtek has failed to deliver on so many times I would be a fool to get sucked into their hype machine again. Did they ever add an undo to their Dope sheet editor? I fondly remember having to reload my last save whenever I would accidentally change or delete the wrong thing in the editor.. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- Technical Director @ DreamWorks Animation _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6515 - Release Date: 07/23/13
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
Gotta say it looks like Sparta, at least at a glance. A worthy addition but manipulating pointclouds with additional offsets keyed over time is very much what sparta does, and it's free ATM give it a whirl :) Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2013, at 13:44, Ben Davis benjamincliffordda...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, I keep a curious eye on Newtek as I started off on Lightwave 6 (no mocking, I don't have time to use it but I still like their product), and this really caught my attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iskaa6krwzQ#at=87 More info on the website: https://www.lightwave3d.com/chronosculpt/ Anyone using it already? -- Ben Davis www.moondog-animation.com +1 (423) 313 9304
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
I was under the impression Sparta only deals with a single point cloud element. No Alembic support, no scene description, no island recognition, no concept of normals affecting sculpts and so on. Has that changed? If not the difference is pretty significant. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Andy Moorer andymoo...@gmail.com wrote: Gotta say it looks like Sparta, at least at a glance. A worthy addition but manipulating pointclouds with additional offsets keyed over time is very much what sparta does, and it's free ATM give it a whirl :) Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2013, at 13:44, Ben Davis benjamincliffordda...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, I keep a curious eye on Newtek as I started off on Lightwave 6 (no mocking, I don't have time to use it but I still like their product), and this really caught my attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iskaa6krwzQ#at=87 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iskaa6krwzQ#at=87 More info on the website: https://www.lightwave3d.com/chronosculpt/ https://www.lightwave3d.com/chronosculpt/ Anyone using it already? -- *Ben Davis* http://www.moondog-animation.comwww.moondog-animation.com +1 (423) 313 9304 -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
As far as I can see, it's the same as taking a frame into something like sculptris, remodelling it then applying the resulting sculpt back to the model as an offset shape in world space. You could do this on a subdivision if you wanted detail. It's nice to have a dedicated tool to do it rather than export-sculpt-import but if we had the sculpting tools in softimage, I think we could do everything this is doing, and a whole lot more. On 23 Jul 2013, at 21:44, Ben Davis benjamincliffordda...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, I keep a curious eye on Newtek as I started off on Lightwave 6 (no mocking, I don't have time to use it but I still like their product), and this really caught my attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iskaa6krwzQ#at=87 More info on the website: https://www.lightwave3d.com/chronosculpt/ Anyone using it already? -- Ben Davis www.moondog-animation.com +1 (423) 313 9304
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
Not a fan of NT, nor I trust them much after the Latewait Core shuffle, but from what little you can tell from the video you might be selling it very short. In first place when something like this comes stand-alone infrastructure and geo/scene management are important. Highly parallelized Alembic caches with read-ahead alone is something you would really, really struggle to do in Soft, not to mention you have to start from a 3rd party just to begin (Exo's), or invest considerable resources on the propietary front to even open the file's stream :) The shapes don't look like they are just world space shapes, and they are supposed to be fast/cheap, which leads me to believe it's a relatively efficient local (and coherent) delta riding on top of the caches. While it's all mathematically trivial stuff (and Soft has most of the piece and has had them for years in fact), making it perform on multimillion entries without blowing memory budgets and offering a decent editing interface (to be seen if it does have one) is, implementation wise, non-trivial, or at the very least effort intensive. Lastly it seems to deal quite well with island recognition, scene objects, and large meshes, all relatively seamlessly. It's hard to tell much more given this is pre canned footage (and someone somewhere is inferring it was sped up more than a fair bit), it might be another LW core in the end, but I don't think, if it realizes the potential they promise, it should be dismissed as something you can easily re-assemble in another software, not when scale is a feature. I invite you to try and load an alembic cache with 4000 objects and a few hundred thousand points in Soft, and save (and manage) a few shapes both coherently and discretely across the objects. If you get to edit it at more than a frame or two per second to begin with that is ;) On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Bk p...@bustykelp.com wrote: As far as I can see, it's the same as taking a frame into something like sculptris, remodelling it then applying the resulting sculpt back to the model as an offset shape in world space. You could do this on a subdivision if you wanted detail. It's nice to have a dedicated tool to do it rather than export-sculpt-import but if we had the sculpting tools in softimage, I think we could do everything this is doing, and a whole lot more. On 23 Jul 2013, at 21:44, Ben Davis benjamincliffordda...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, I keep a curious eye on Newtek as I started off on Lightwave 6 (no mocking, I don't have time to use it but I still like their product), and this really caught my attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iskaa6krwzQ#at=87 More info on the website: https://www.lightwave3d.com/chronosculpt/ Anyone using it already? -- *Ben Davis* www.moondog-animation.com +1 (423) 313 9304 -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
RE: OT: ChronoSculpt
From my experiences Newtek products never live up to the hype and sometimes never materialize even after selling licenses to customers. I gave up on anything Newtek has to offer long ago. From anyone else might get excited about something like this, but Newtek has failed to deliver on so many times I would be a fool to get sucked into their hype machine again. Did they ever add an undo to their Dope sheet editor? I fondly remember having to reload my last save whenever I would accidentally change or delete the wrong thing in the editor.. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:47 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: OT: ChronoSculpt Not a fan of NT, nor I trust them much after the Latewait Core shuffle, but from what little you can tell from the video you might be selling it very short. In first place when something like this comes stand-alone infrastructure and geo/scene management are important. Highly parallelized Alembic caches with read-ahead alone is something you would really, really struggle to do in Soft, not to mention you have to start from a 3rd party just to begin (Exo's), or invest considerable resources on the propietary front to even open the file's stream :) The shapes don't look like they are just world space shapes, and they are supposed to be fast/cheap, which leads me to believe it's a relatively efficient local (and coherent) delta riding on top of the caches. While it's all mathematically trivial stuff (and Soft has most of the piece and has had them for years in fact), making it perform on multimillion entries without blowing memory budgets and offering a decent editing interface (to be seen if it does have one) is, implementation wise, non-trivial, or at the very least effort intensive. Lastly it seems to deal quite well with island recognition, scene objects, and large meshes, all relatively seamlessly. It's hard to tell much more given this is pre canned footage (and someone somewhere is inferring it was sped up more than a fair bit), it might be another LW core in the end, but I don't think, if it realizes the potential they promise, it should be dismissed as something you can easily re-assemble in another software, not when scale is a feature. I invite you to try and load an alembic cache with 4000 objects and a few hundred thousand points in Soft, and save (and manage) a few shapes both coherently and discretely across the objects. If you get to edit it at more than a frame or two per second to begin with that is ;) On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Bk p...@bustykelp.com wrote: As far as I can see, it's the same as taking a frame into something like sculptris, remodelling it then applying the resulting sculpt back to the model as an offset shape in world space. You could do this on a subdivision if you wanted detail. It's nice to have a dedicated tool to do it rather than export-sculpt-import but if we had the sculpting tools in softimage, I think we could do everything this is doing, and a whole lot more. On 23 Jul 2013, at 21:44, Ben Davis benjamincliffordda...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, I keep a curious eye on Newtek as I started off on Lightwave 6 (no mocking, I don't have time to use it but I still like their product), and this really caught my attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iskaa6krwzQ#at=87 More info on the website: https://www.lightwave3d.com/chronosculpt/ Anyone using it already? -- Ben Davis www.moondog-animation.com +1 (423) 313 9304 -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: OT: ChronoSculpt
Sure, they have to prove themselves, doesn't mean what they're showing isn't interesting or is trivial. Just what's shown in the demo is something that, outside of some propietary solutions which are unlikely to be as polished, is not available to anyone. Just delivering a stable version of what they show and nothing else with a decent stability and at the right price point would be interesting enough to at least try the demo for. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Sam sbowl...@cox.net wrote: From my experiences Newtek products never live up to the hype and sometimes never materialize even after selling licenses to customers. I gave up on anything Newtek has to offer long ago. From anyone else might get excited about something like this, but Newtek has failed to deliver on so many times I would be a fool to get sucked into their hype machine again. Did they ever add an undo to their Dope sheet editor? I fondly remember having to reload my last save whenever I would accidentally change or delete the wrong thing in the editor….
