Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list The following sums up the law in France : http://www.u-e-f.net/lois.htm A very strict reading of it would ban owning/detaining/selling/buying/importing any type of device that would enable listening anything besides broadcasting, ham and CB bands. As home wireless phones (not cell phones) operate here between 13m broadcast and CB bands (roughly 26200-26500) an ICF SW-7600GR for instance would be perfectly illegal. You would even be liable to bring your grandma's valves set to the nearest Police Department (perhaps, the same PD where she brought it in... 1941 after having been caught listening to the BBC :- ) Only very low-end SW receivers would be allowed. But, it is fortunately not strictly observed. The tricky point is that the State could also be considered by a nifty defence lawyer as an accomplice (19.6% VAT) in case of a judicial dispute. This reminds me the case of Eastern Europe with their FM band starting at 66 MHz, as authorities were worried people could hear programmes originating from the 'reactionnary forces backing the American wary imperialism'. On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 10:48:43AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Sir: The 33 cm band is open to amateur use, i.e. 902.0 - 928.0 MHz. Geographical and power restrictions apply in some cases. See FCC rule book. Mike Stribling -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KD7JYK Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Spooks] censorship Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Amatuer in what country? What part of 800 MHz or near it can you broadcast in? Kurt --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Grounds __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
[Spooks] censorship again
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list speaking of censorship, I wonder what the laws would be in terms of broadcasting and listening in North Korea - the ultimate in totalitarian regimes! People with SW radios would find it a godsend to actually learn more about the outside world (and the fact that people actually have basic human rights there) instead of the propaganda of VOK. 73s, Sue -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JMM Moi-Mme Matre du Monde Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Spooks] censorship Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list The following sums up the law in France : http://www.u-e-f.net/lois.htm A very strict reading of it would ban owning/detaining/selling/buying/importing any type of device that would enable listening anything besides broadcasting, ham and CB bands. As home wireless phones (not cell phones) operate here between 13m broadcast and CB bands (roughly 26200-26500) an ICF SW-7600GR for instance would be perfectly illegal. You would even be liable to bring your grandma's valves set to the nearest Police Department (perhaps, the same PD where she brought it in... 1941 after having been caught listening to the BBC :- ) Only very low-end SW receivers would be allowed. But, it is fortunately not strictly observed. The tricky point is that the State could also be considered by a nifty defence lawyer as an accomplice (19.6% VAT) in case of a judicial dispute. This reminds me the case of Eastern Europe with their FM band starting at 66 MHz, as authorities were worried people could hear programmes originating from the 'reactionnary forces backing the American wary imperialism'. On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 10:48:43AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Sir: The 33 cm band is open to amateur use, i.e. 902.0 - 928.0 MHz. Geographical and power restrictions apply in some cases. See FCC rule book. Mike Stribling -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KD7JYK Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Spooks] censorship Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Amatuer in what country? What part of 800 MHz or near it can you broadcast in? Kurt --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Grounds __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
RE: [Spooks] censorship again
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Susan C. Hickey wrote: Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list are you saying, then, that you can't tune radios and TVs in the DPRK? well, Right. You can't have the population accidently hearing, ah, incorrect information. I understand back in the old USSR days, many peasants had speakers wired in their house, not even a radio, so they could hear information about the glorious progress of the revolution. I don't know that there was an off switch, and I don't know that it was wise to ask for one. that's interesting...must keep that in mind! (especially since I'm the Canadian coordinator for Amnesty International who's responsible for North Korea...but I didn't know that! 73s, Sue You must be busy ;-) __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
RE: [Spooks] censorship again
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Original Message: - Right. You can't have the population accidently hearing, ah, incorrect information. I understand back in the old USSR days, many peasants had speakers wired in their house, not even a radio, so they could hear information about the glorious progress of the revolution. I don't know that there was an off switch, and I don't know that it was wise to ask for one. --- I saw an interesting Soviet 'cable-radio' set advertised on eBay; I wish now that I'd bought it. It seemed to be just a loudspeaker on a stand; just plug it into the Grid and you'd get all the news that's fit to broadcast, and with no interference! Dang-- I'll have to keep an eye out for more of them. Chris Gross mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list This is correct, which is no more 800 MHz than 10 GHz is considered HF. Kurt --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Grounds - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The 33 cm band is open to amateur use, i.e. 902.0 - 928.0 MHz. Geographical and power restrictions apply in some cases. See FCC rule book. Mike Stribling __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
RE: [Spooks] censorship or near
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Sir: Notice in the second sentence of your msg below,or near. V/R WEATHERGUESSER -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Spooks] censorship Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Sir: The 33 cm band is open to amateur use, i.e. 902.0 - 928.0 MHz. Geographical and power restrictions apply in some cases. See FCC rule book. Mike Stribling -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KD7JYK Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Spooks] censorship Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Amatuer in what country? What part of 800 MHz or near it can you broadcast in? Kurt --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Grounds __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list What is this about listening to the 800 MHz being a felony. I am a Amateur radio operator I can broadcast in that range. Well part of it anyway. Fill me in on what I have missed there. Keep 'em Flying Rob Hommel KC7FBO - Original Message - From: Ben Mesander [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Spooks] censorship Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Hi Dan, What on earth is a supposed democracy like the UK doing censoring free speech like this? Political power comes from the barrel of a gun. Are they the only ones? No. Regards, Ben PS: Also, the UK has never had free speech in the American sense. But listening to the 800MHz band in the US has apparently become a felony thanks to the Patriot act. __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 10/6/2003 __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Ben Mesander wrote: PS: Also, the UK has never had free speech in the American sense. But listening to the 800MHz band in the US has apparently become a felony thanks to the Patriot act. Prior to the ECPA (circa 1987 if my memory is correct) there were no prohibitions on listening to any radio communications whatsoever in the US, the only restriction (1933 Communications Act) was that you could not divulge what you heard. The ECPA was bought, err, promoted by the telecommunications industry, as a way to make folk's cell phone calls private, prohibiting listening to them (as well as pagers, and perhaps some other comms) and forcing the FCC to not type accept any reciever that tunes those bands in. (All radios sold in the US must be FCC type accepted, the original purpose was to prevent sale of radios that leaked excessive RF and could cause interference) I've not seen any specific text from the Patriot Act as what further radio reception bans it adds. Although I imagine most members of congress couldn't tell you what specific items are in the act as well. Ute listening has always been a gray area in the UK and most of the rest of the world, officially illegal, but tolerated as long as you don't spill the beans on any state secrets (like Prince Charles' shoe size I guess). Less tolerated in much of the rest of the world. As the ute monitoring community never had a strong lobbying group (and the ARRL wouldn't spend any political capital defending us anyway) there was no one to prevent passage of these types of laws. I'd also venture to say that we did it to ourselves. There were too many TV news stories showing radio enthusiasts listening to cell phone calls on their scanner, and the lawmakers [over]reacted. I do not wish to start a debate or flame war over the merits of such legislation. If anyone has any facts regarding what restrictions are actually in place (ECPA or Patriot Act in the US, or other laws in their respective countries) I do think that would be an on topic post, as to how they relate to the legality of monitoring spy numbers and similar transmissions. As far as E2K and E3 are concerned, I think they are trying to avoid any overt actions on their part that could bring down the wrath of their government. I don't believe E2K has a legal defense fund. 73 Chris __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Dan Malloy wrote: Hello Spooks, I was reading the ENIGMA 2000 newsletter and saw this item: E03/E03a Apart from the regulations concerning the reception of wireless stations within Great Britain, advice on reporting intelligence matters also exists in the formsnipped Whoever the messages, from E03/E03a, are aimed at ENIGMA 2000 has no wish to 'advertise' the existencesnipped Hi Dan All, There are a large number of Laws in the UK that regulate what we can cannot listen to, taken together they are a minefield of risks for the UTE/Numbers monitors. The list is considerable but amongst them we are very aware of the implications of :- Wireless Telegraphy Act Official Secrets Act D Notices recent Anti Terrorist Legislation. If it so wished our Government could close us down with the stroke of a pen. Being a cynic my take on democracy/freedom in UK is that it's more a state of mind rather than a fact of life Looking at things from this side of the pond your Patriot Act/Anti Terrorist Acts and various regulations your Government is introducing/considering you are also well on the way to having your own Official Secrets Act foisted upon you by the back door, I'm amazed at some of the things that have been raised in your HR over recent months. Chris S is right that ENIGMA 2000 does not have a legal defense fund, we, as are most hobby lists, are run by a few dedicated volunteers out of their own pockets so it is sensible for us to be prudent. Cheers Mike L for ENIGMA 2000 __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Hello Chris and List, This is an interesting topic; the law as it relates to listening in Great Britain is very defined, even to the point of those who can legally listen. For a short and intuitive read: http://www.radio.gov.uk/publication/ra_info/ra169.htm This document was issued originally as Scanners became popular in GB and listing to the emergency services was a great interest. Read with a singular mind one could easily imagine that the document only referred to the frequencies covered by Scanners. However, it obviously refers to the entire spectrum and some necessity of good sense must be exercised when listening. The document states, in simple and plain language exactly what can be legally listened to [And it isn't much, either]. Having read the RA169 doc you will understand why ENIGMA 2000 is careful not to overstep the line, a cautious approach must, out of sensibility, be observed as the statement made in our newsletter proclaims: Apart from the regulations concerning the reception of wireless stations within Great Britain advice on reporting intelligence matters also exists in the form of DA notices. Whoever the messages, from E03/E03a, are aimed at ENIGMA 2000 has no wish to 'advertise' the existence of these stations to those who may not support the best interests of Great Britain, or its representatives abroad. The RA169 document is not about being a killjoy. It offers advice to those with an interest in listening, interception, earwigging or call it what you will. If the representatives of HM Govt do knock there will be no defence. So yes, we are avoiding the wrath of our Government. We certainly have no wish to fall foul of the various statutes surrounding the interception of others communications and we act accordingly and in sensible fashion. ENIGMA 2000 has no funds or finacial status. Out of pocket expenses are just that - out of mine, or MikeL's pockets. 73 Paul For ENIGMA 2000 [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/enigma2000] As far as E2K and E3 are concerned, I think they are trying to avoid any overt actions on their part that could bring down the wrath of their As far as E2K and E3 are concerned, I think they are trying to avoid any overt actions on their part that could bring down the wrath of their government. I don't believe E2K has a legal defense fund. __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list PS: Also, the UK has never had free speech in the American sense. But listening to the 800MHz band in the US has apparently become a felony thanks to the Patriot act. If that's the case, then Radio Shack (which sells 800 MHz scanners) is breaking the law! Help! Police! :-) Chris Gross mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list PS: Also, the UK has never had free speech in the American sense. But listening to the 800MHz band in the US has apparently become a felony thanks to the Patriot act. If that's the case, then Radio Shack (which sells 800 MHz scanners) is breaking the law! Help! Police! :-) The restrictions are in cellular/pager frequencies, not 800 MHz in general. We need to be more careful when specifying frequency ranges. __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list If I'm not mistaken, it is okay to sell or own 800 MHz scanners in USA, but the FCC won't approve newly manufactured 800 MHz scanners anymore. Listening to cell or cordless phones or any private conversations for that matter is illegal in USA. In Canada it is okay to listen to 800 MHz cell phones conversations, as long as you do not repeat what you hear. The fun part is that most new scanners are imported from USA, so you'll find 800 MHz blocked scanners even if it is legal in Canada. In fact the CRTC (the folks regulating freqs in Canada) think that anything floating in the air is public domain. So they think it is the responsibility of the transmitters to protect their private conversations. Decoding digital Tx is okay in Canada, but I think breaking a propriatary crypto, including numbers stations, would fall in the big no-no category. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If that's the case, then Radio Shack (which sells 800 MHz scanners) is breaking the law! Help! Police! :-) Chris Gross __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Original Message: - On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If that's the case, then Radio Shack (which sells 800 MHz scanners) is breaking the law! Help! Police! :-) The restrictions are in cellular/pager frequencies, not 800 MHz in general. We need to be more careful when specifying frequency ranges. Exactly; it's not the entire band, just the part reserved for private communications. Chris Gross mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Amatuer in what country? What part of 800 MHz or near it can you broadcast in? Kurt --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Grounds __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
[Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Hello Spooks, I was reading the ENIGMA 2000 newsletter and saw this item: E03/E03a Apart from the regulations concerning the reception of wireless stations within Great Britain, advice on reporting intelligence matters also exists in the form of DA notices. Whoever the messages, from E03/E03a, are aimed at ENIGMA 2000 has no wish to 'advertise' the existence of these stations to those who may not support the best interests of Great Britain, or its representatives abroad. Although we are unable to stop discussion of E03/E03a, ENIGMA 2000 will remain aloof from any such discussion and will not be including reports or analysis on E03/E03a. ENIGMA 2000 thanks those who have recently posted logs of E03/E03a [E04] activity via group. What on earth is a supposed democracy like the UK doing censoring free speech like this? Are they the only ones? Dan Malloy --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html The reason this message is shown is because the post was in HTML or had an attachment. Attachments are not allowed. To learn how to post in Plain-Text go to: http://www.expita.com/nomime.html --- __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
Re: [Spooks] censorship
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Hi Dan, What on earth is a supposed democracy like the UK doing censoring free speech like this? Political power comes from the barrel of a gun. Are they the only ones? No. Regards, Ben PS: Also, the UK has never had free speech in the American sense. But listening to the 800MHz band in the US has apparently become a felony thanks to the Patriot act. __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Visit http://www.spynumbers.com/ for complete information about Spy Numbers Stations
