subject:"RE\: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers"

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread Greg McGahan

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent
informal interp related to this issue


Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
fax 850-937-1852

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote:

> Interesting question.  If the activation temperatures are close to the same
> value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers with the
> imputed RTI of the EC.
>
> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report stipulate
> the QR in this compartment.
>
> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from activating
> when they are further away from the fire, in the presence of SR sprinklers
> when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire.
>
> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case can be
> made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers activating,
> regardless of their intended order of activation (1st ring, 2nd ring, etc.)
> as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler.  Consider what is to be
> protected from fire by the different sprinklers and modify your judgment
> accordingly.
>
> Scot Deal
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread Fairchild, Jack

Watch the calcs.  The standard heads will "Q" up and act like the EC's.  Be 
sure to run a calc with one of the EC's as your end head regardless of it's 
physical location.  Remember the remote area is the: "Hydraulically most 
demanding".  I wrote an article about this in 2013 for Fire Protection 
Contractor Magazine.

Jack Fairchild

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Greg McGahan
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent informal 
interp related to this issue


Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com>
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
fax 850-937-1852

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote:

> Interesting question.  If the activation temperatures are close to the 
> same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers 
> with the imputed RTI of the EC.
>
> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report 
> stipulate the QR in this compartment.
>
> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from 
> activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence 
> of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire.
>
> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case 
> can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers 
> activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st 
> ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler.  
> Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers 
> and modify your judgment accordingly.
>
> Scot Deal
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
> er.org
>
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread Fairchild, Jack

What Scot said, but the most conservative answer is once an EC head is 
installed with the small spacing it is by nature QR and all heads in the space 
would need to be QR.

Jack Fairchild


-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Greg McGahan
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent informal 
interp related to this issue


Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com>
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
fax 850-937-1852

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote:

> Interesting question.  If the activation temperatures are close to the 
> same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers 
> with the imputed RTI of the EC.
>
> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report 
> stipulate the QR in this compartment.
>
> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from 
> activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence 
> of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire.
>
> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case 
> can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers 
> activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st 
> ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler.  
> Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers 
> and modify your judgment accordingly.
>
> Scot Deal
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
> er.org
>
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread T. Silva

Thanks. That gives rise to a trick question. What if this area has EC 
sprinklers at different spacing. Say for arguments sake, some at 20'x20' and 
some 12'x12'. Would the standard coverage sprinklers in the same compartment 
have to be QR or SR? 

Tony 

- Original Message -

From: "Jack Fairchild"  
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 11:01:20 AM 
Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

What Scot said, but the most conservative answer is once an EC head is 
installed with the small spacing it is by nature QR and all heads in the space 
would need to be QR. 

Jack Fairchild 


-Original Message- 
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Greg McGahan 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent informal 
interp related to this issue 


Greg McGahan 
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com> 
1160 McKenzie Road 
Cantonment, FL 32533 
850-937-1850 
fax 850-937-1852 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote: 

> Interesting question. If the activation temperatures are close to the 
> same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers 
> with the imputed RTI of the EC. 
> 
> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report 
> stipulate the QR in this compartment. 
> 
> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from 
> activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence 
> of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire. 
> 
> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case 
> can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers 
> activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st 
> ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler. 
> Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers 
> and modify your judgment accordingly. 
> 
> Scot Deal 
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering 
> ___ 
> Sprinklerforum mailing list 
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> 
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl 
> er.org 
> 
___ 
Sprinklerforum mailing list 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org 
___ 
Sprinklerforum mailing list 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org 

___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread Travis Mack, SET

I'm not certain you could use the EC at 12' spacing in the same OH area 
as with 16' spacing.  Because again, you are mixing the response times.  
Yes, it does get very tricky in those situations.


Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
2508 E Lodgepole Drive
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:tm...@mfpdesign.com

http://www.mfpdesign.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign

On 7/7/2015 10:50 AM, T. Silva wrote:

Thanks. That gives rise to a trick question. What if this area has EC 
sprinklers at different spacing. Say for arguments sake, some at 20'x20' and 
some 12'x12'. Would the standard coverage sprinklers in the same compartment 
have to be QR or SR?

Tony

- Original Message -

From: "Jack Fairchild" 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 11:01:20 AM
Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

What Scot said, but the most conservative answer is once an EC head is 
installed with the small spacing it is by nature QR and all heads in the space 
would need to be QR.

Jack Fairchild


-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Greg McGahan
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent informal 
interp related to this issue


Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com>
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
fax 850-937-1852

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote:


Interesting question. If the activation temperatures are close to the
same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers
with the imputed RTI of the EC.

An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report
stipulate the QR in this compartment.

The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from
activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence
of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire.

If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case
can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers
activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st
ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler.
Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers
and modify your judgment accordingly.

Scot Deal
Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org

http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
er.org


___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org


___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread Roland Huggins

the committee addressed this issue for the 2016 ed by adding a new section 
8.3.3.5.  It’s a convoluted sentence but it appears to say that such sprinklers 
can be installed in the same compartment without regard to the thermal 
sensitivity of the other sprinklers.


Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn.   ---  Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/>





> On Jul 7, 2015, at 10:50 AM, T. Silva  wrote:
> 
> Thanks. That gives rise to a trick question. What if this area has EC 
> sprinklers at different spacing. Say for arguments sake, some at 20'x20' and 
> some 12'x12'. Would the standard coverage sprinklers in the same compartment 
> have to be QR or SR? 
> 
> Tony 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "Jack Fairchild"  
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 11:01:20 AM 
> Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 
> 
> What Scot said, but the most conservative answer is once an EC head is 
> installed with the small spacing it is by nature QR and all heads in the 
> space would need to be QR. 
> 
> Jack Fairchild 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] 
> On Behalf Of Greg McGahan 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM 
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 
> 
> I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent 
> informal interp related to this issue 
> 
> 
> Greg McGahan 
> Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com> 
> 1160 McKenzie Road 
> Cantonment, FL 32533 
> 850-937-1850 
> fax 850-937-1852 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote: 
> 
>> Interesting question. If the activation temperatures are close to the 
>> same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers 
>> with the imputed RTI of the EC. 
>> 
>> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report 
>> stipulate the QR in this compartment. 
>> 
>> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from 
>> activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence 
>> of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire. 
>> 
>> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case 
>> can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers 
>> activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st 
>> ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler. 
>> Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers 
>> and modify your judgment accordingly. 
>> 
>> Scot Deal 
>> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering 
>> ___ 
>> Sprinklerforum mailing list 
>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
>> 
>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl 
>> er.org 
>> 
> ___ 
> Sprinklerforum mailing list 
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org 
> ___ 
> Sprinklerforum mailing list 
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org 
> 
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread Larry Keeping

Just as a point of information, I thought I should relate to you the new text 
that will be entered into the forthcoming 2016 edition of NFPA 13:

8.3.3.2Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all 
sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-   response unless otherwise 
permitted in 8.3.3.3 , 8.3.3.4 , or 8.3.3.5 . 

8.3.3.3Where there are no listed quick-response sprinklers in the 
temperature range required, standard- response sprinklers shall be 
permitted to be used. 

8.3.3.4The provisions of 8.3.3.2 shall not apply to in-rack 
sprinklers.

8.3.3.5Where a sprinkler carries a listing for both 
standard-response protection and quick-response protection at different 
coverage areas, that sprinkler shall be permitted to be installed within a 
compartment at   the spacing for both the quick-response and 
standard-response listings without any separation between the   areas so 
covered.

8.3.3.6When existing light hazard systems are converted to use 
quick-response or residential sprinklers, allsprinklers in a 
compartment shall be changed.

I think that this will satisfy your concerns - at least in the future.

Best regards

Larry Keeping

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fairchild, Jack
Sent: July-07-15 1:01 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

What Scot said, but the most conservative answer is once an EC head is 
installed with the small spacing it is by nature QR and all heads in the space 
would need to be QR.

Jack Fairchild

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Greg McGahan
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent informal 
interp related to this issue

Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com>
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
fax 850-937-1852

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote:

> Interesting question.  If the activation temperatures are close to the 
> same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers 
> with the imputed RTI of the EC.
>
> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report 
> stipulate the QR in this compartment.
>
> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from 
> activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence 
> of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire.
>
> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case 
> can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers 
> activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st 
> ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler.
> Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers 
> and modify your judgment accordingly.
>
> Scot Deal
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering
> ___
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
> er.org
>
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-07 Thread T. Silva

That lays it to rest, Thanks, Larry, 
Tony 

- Original Message -

From: "Larry Keeping"  
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:57:12 PM 
Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

Just as a point of information, I thought I should relate to you the new text 
that will be entered into the forthcoming 2016 edition of NFPA 13: 

8.3.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a 
compartment shall be quick- response unless otherwise permitted in 8.3.3.3 , 
8.3.3.4 , or 8.3.3.5 . 

8.3.3.3 Where there are no listed quick-response sprinklers in the temperature 
range required, standard- response sprinklers shall be permitted to be used. 

8.3.3.4 The provisions of 8.3.3.2 shall not apply to in-rack sprinklers. 

8.3.3.5 Where a sprinkler carries a listing for both standard-response 
protection and quick-response protection at different coverage areas, that 
sprinkler shall be permitted to be installed within a compartment at the 
spacing for both the quick-response and standard-response listings without any 
separation between the areas so covered. 

8.3.3.6 When existing light hazard systems are converted to use quick-response 
or residential sprinklers, all sprinklers in a compartment shall be changed. 

I think that this will satisfy your concerns - at least in the future. 

Best regards 

Larry Keeping 

-Original Message- 
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fairchild, Jack 
Sent: July-07-15 1:01 PM 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

What Scot said, but the most conservative answer is once an EC head is 
installed with the small spacing it is by nature QR and all heads in the space 
would need to be QR. 

Jack Fairchild 


-Original Message- 
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Greg McGahan 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent informal 
interp related to this issue 


Greg McGahan 
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com> 
1160 McKenzie Road 
Cantonment, FL 32533 
850-937-1850 
fax 850-937-1852 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote: 

> Interesting question. If the activation temperatures are close to the 
> same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers 
> with the imputed RTI of the EC. 
> 
> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report 
> stipulate the QR in this compartment. 
> 
> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from 
> activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence 
> of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire. 
> 
> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case 
> can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers 
> activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st 
> ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler. 
> Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers 
> and modify your judgment accordingly. 
> 
> Scot Deal 
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering 
> ___ 
> Sprinklerforum mailing list 
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> 
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl 
> er.org 
> 
___ 
Sprinklerforum mailing list 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org 
___ 
Sprinklerforum mailing list 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org 
___ 
Sprinklerforum mailing list 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org 

___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

2015-07-08 Thread Brad Casterline

Late last year I took a shot at getting through the sticky wicket of 8.3.3.5
with:

My take is this:
 example 1-- Light Hazard-- Q.R. required-- Sprinkler= "Acme Model A" listed

Q.R. at max 14 x 14 and S.R. up to 20 x 20-- so max spacing = 14 x 14.
 example 2-- Ord Haz-- same sprinkler-- max spacing = 20 x 20, BUT if it 
happens that some coverage areas are 14 X 14, it is NOT considered mixing
Q.R. 
and S.R.

and got this atta boy:

Brad, correct. That was the intent of the committee.

Peter Schwab
VP of Purchasing & Engineering Technologies

I was on cloud nine the rest of the year ;)

Brad


-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of T. Silva
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 4:04 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

That lays it to rest, Thanks, Larry, 
Tony


- Original Message -

From: "Larry Keeping"  
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:57:12 PM 
Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

Just as a point of information, I thought I should relate to you the new
text that will be entered into the forthcoming 2016 edition of NFPA 13: 

8.3.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within
a compartment shall be quick- response unless otherwise permitted in 8.3.3.3
, 8.3.3.4 , or 8.3.3.5 . 

8.3.3.3 Where there are no listed quick-response sprinklers in the
temperature range required, standard- response sprinklers shall be permitted
to be used. 

8.3.3.4 The provisions of 8.3.3.2 shall not apply to in-rack sprinklers. 

8.3.3.5 Where a sprinkler carries a listing for both standard-response
protection and quick-response protection at different coverage areas, that
sprinkler shall be permitted to be installed within a compartment at the
spacing for both the quick-response and standard-response listings without
any separation between the areas so covered. 

8.3.3.6 When existing light hazard systems are converted to use
quick-response or residential sprinklers, all sprinklers in a compartment
shall be changed. 

I think that this will satisfy your concerns - at least in the future. 

Best regards 

Larry Keeping 

-Original Message- 
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Fairchild, Jack 
Sent: July-07-15 1:01 PM 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Subject: RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

What Scot said, but the most conservative answer is once an EC head is
installed with the small spacing it is by nature QR and all heads in the
space would need to be QR. 

Jack Fairchild 


-Original Message- 
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Greg McGahan 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:26 AM 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Subject: Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers 

I lost the original question ...but I think that the AFSA has a recent
informal interp related to this issue 


Greg McGahan 
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com> 
1160 McKenzie Road 
Cantonment, FL 32533 
850-937-1850 
fax 850-937-1852 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:07 AM, å...   wrote: 

> Interesting question. If the activation temperatures are close to the 
> same value, then I would match the RTI of the standdard sprinklers 
> with the imputed RTI of the EC. 
> 
> An obvious caveat is if the specifications or engineeering report 
> stipulate the QR in this compartment. 
> 
> The NFPA 13 intent, I believe, is to prevent QR sprinklers from 
> activating when they are further away from the fire, in the presence 
> of SR sprinklers when these SR sprinklers are nearer to the fire. 
> 
> If the compartment is smaller than the design area,...then the case 
> can be made that the hydraulic design will account for all sprinklers 
> activating, regardless of their intended order of activation (1st 
> ring, 2nd ring, etc.) as manipulated by the RTI of the sprinkler. 
> Consider what is to be protected from fire by the different sprinklers 
> and modify your judgment accordingly. 
> 
> Scot Deal 
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering 
> ___ 
> Sprinklerforum mailing list 
> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> 
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl 
> er.org 
> 
___ 
Sprinklerforum mailing list 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

___ 
Sprinklerforum mailing list 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

Re: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

RE: Mixing EC sprinklers with Std coverage sprinklers

9 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information