Re: [squid-users] Squid slow performance

2012-07-25 Thread Jason Leschnik
Are you able to perform a wget from the machine on a known fast
source? Like a mirror to test the Internet connection...

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Amos Jeffries squ...@treenet.co.nz wrote:
 On 24/07/2012 7:21 p.m., Alamgir Shamim wrote:

 Hello,

 We are using squid version squid-2.6.STABLE21-6.el5. But getting very
 poor performance.

 Our total Internet user are almost 750. At a time 500 to 600 user
 browse internet.

 all of them are getting slow response. it takes 10 to 30 second to load a
 page.

 Here I am giving you some out put.

 top out put...

 =

 top - 12:54:09 up 31 days,  5:59,  2 users,  load average: 0.18, 0.24,
 0.24

 Tasks:  80 total,   1 running,  79 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie

 Cpu(s):  1.5%us,  0.2%sy,  0.0%ni, 93.5%id,  4.2%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.6%si,
 0.0%st

 Mem:   2075016k total,  2020432k used,54584k free,   233784k buffers

 Swap:  2031608k total,   96k used,  2031512k free,  1538140k cached

PID USER  PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+  COMMAND

 12866 squid 15   0  100m  70m 2508 S3  3.5   4:56.96 squid


   6815 root  18   0 10936 4280  428 S0  0.2   0:00.00 squid





 free -m output

 

 [root@proxy253 squid]# free -m

   total   used   free sharedbuffers cached

 Mem:  2026   1973 53  0228   1502

 -/+ buffers/cache:242   1783

 Swap: 1983  0   1983

 Processor infor

 ==

 processor   : 0

 vendor_id   : GenuineIntel

 cpu family  : 15

 model   : 4

 model name  : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz

 stepping: 3

 cpu MHz : 3200.343

 cache size  : 2048 KB

 physical id : 0

 siblings: 2

 

 processor   : 1

 vendor_id   : GenuineIntel

 cpu family  : 15

 model   : 4

 model name  : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz

 stepping: 3

 cpu MHz : 3200.343

 cache size  : 2048 KB

 physical id : 0

 siblings: 2

 -

 Could you please let me know what might be the reason for getting slow
 performance. We have 14 mbps of Internet bandwidth.

 We are doing some content filtering also with squid.


 There are several possible reasons:

 * you have configured squid in a inefficient way
  - I'm happy to do free performance audits here if you want to paste your
 squid.conf to the list (obscure the cachemgr_passwd detail though please)

 * you are content filtering
  - this is a major slowdown for Squid no matter what type of filtering is
 being done

 * overloaded or slow disks I/O speeds on disk cache
  - only relevant if you are disk caching

 * 2.6 will be adding to the slowdown
  - 2.7 series had a performance focus on development and is a good 20%
 faster just in the code.
  - 2.6 has low HTTP/1.1 compliance, meaning you loose out on many HTTP/1.1
 performance features available in later releases.

 Amos




-- 
Regards,
Jason Leschnik.

[m] 0432 35 4224
[w@] jason dot leschnik at ansto dot gov dot au
[U@] jml...@uow.edu.au


RE: [squid-users] Squid + Cisco 4500 + WCCP2

2012-07-25 Thread Ioannis Pliatsikas

Very sorry for bothering you again

although i get the redirection from the router to squid, using tcpdump 
(10.72.192.61 test internal address)


11:38:37.956330 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50690: Flags [S.], 
seq 1048613649, ack 1347334415, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:38.399796 IP 10.72.192.61.50697  199.47.218.151.80: Flags [S], 
seq 3043000771, win 8192, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 
2,nop,nop,sackOK], length 0
11:38:38.399880 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.], 
seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:39.756353 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.], 
seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.356350 IP 176.9.44.80.80  10.72.192.61.50693: Flags [S.], seq 
326259738, ack 1299448389, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.409101 IP 10.72.192.61.50697  199.47.218.151.80: Flags [S], 
seq 3043000771, win 8192, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 
2,nop,nop,sackOK], length 0
11:38:41.409164 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.], 
seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.556343 IP 176.9.44.80.80  10.72.192.61.50694: Flags [S.], seq 
2634200113, ack 3423797704, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.756336 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.], 
seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.756362 IP 209.85.148.139.80  10.72.192.61.50695: Flags [S.], 
seq 2040290141, ack 953271924, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:42.356340 IP 209.85.148.139.80  10.72.192.61.50696: Flags [S.], 
seq 69242255, ack 3941278742, win 14600, options [mss 
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0



i still can't get linux to redirect to squid (port 8080), access.log is 
empty


i use the following iptables

-
# Generated by iptables-save v1.4.12.1 on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
*filter
:INPUT ACCEPT [105007:140596865]
:FORWARD ACCEPT [3:120]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [212743:136992211]
-A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 8080 -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT
COMMIT
# Completed on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
# Generated by iptables-save v1.4.12.1 on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
*nat
:PREROUTING ACCEPT [0:0]
:INPUT ACCEPT [1254:65132]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [118:7345]
:POSTROUTING ACCEPT [0:0]
-A PREROUTING -d $SQUID_IP -i eth0 -p tcp -j ACCEPT
-A PREROUTING -s $NETWORK_SPACE -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j 
REDIRECT --to-ports 8080

-A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE
COMMIT
# Completed on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
---

Catch is that i use l2 redirection, so source and destination is eth0, 
no gre tunnel. Can it be done or should a create a virtual device and 
redirect input from there?



Thank you in advance
John


Re: [squid-users] Squid + Cisco 4500 + WCCP2

2012-07-25 Thread Indunil Jayasooriya
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Indunil Jayasooriya
induni...@gmail.com wrote:


 Can your squid box to go to internet ? ( Pls check /etc/resolv.conf file )

 How many interfaces does your squid box have?

 1 or 2 ?

 in /etc/sysctl.conf  file , pls check net.ipv4.ip_forward parameter?  try
 to make it to one in following manner.

 net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1






 On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Ioannis Pliatsikas gpli...@ee.duth.gr
 wrote:

 Very sorry for bothering you again

 although i get the redirection from the router to squid, using tcpdump
 (10.72.192.61 test internal address)

 11:38:37.956330 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50690: Flags [S.],
 seq 1048613649, ack 1347334415, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:38.399796 IP 10.72.192.61.50697  199.47.218.151.80: Flags [S], seq
 3043000771, win 8192, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 2,nop,nop,sackOK], length
 0
 11:38:38.399880 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.],
 seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:39.756353 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.],
 seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:41.356350 IP 176.9.44.80.80  10.72.192.61.50693: Flags [S.], seq
 326259738, ack 1299448389, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:41.409101 IP 10.72.192.61.50697  199.47.218.151.80: Flags [S], seq
 3043000771, win 8192, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 2,nop,nop,sackOK], length
 0
 11:38:41.409164 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.],
 seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:41.556343 IP 176.9.44.80.80  10.72.192.61.50694: Flags [S.], seq
 2634200113, ack 3423797704, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:41.756336 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags [S.],
 seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:41.756362 IP 209.85.148.139.80  10.72.192.61.50695: Flags [S.],
 seq 2040290141, ack 953271924, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
 11:38:42.356340 IP 209.85.148.139.80  10.72.192.61.50696: Flags [S.],
 seq 69242255, ack 3941278742, win 14600, options [mss
 1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0


 i still can't get linux to redirect to squid (port 8080), access.log is
 empty

 i use the following iptables

 -
 # Generated by iptables-save v1.4.12.1 on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
 *filter
 :INPUT ACCEPT [105007:140596865]
 :FORWARD ACCEPT [3:120]
 :OUTPUT ACCEPT [212743:136992211]
 -A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 8080 -j ACCEPT
 -A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT
 COMMIT
 # Completed on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
 # Generated by iptables-save v1.4.12.1 on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
 *nat
 :PREROUTING ACCEPT [0:0]
 :INPUT ACCEPT [1254:65132]
 :OUTPUT ACCEPT [118:7345]
 :POSTROUTING ACCEPT [0:0]
 -A PREROUTING -d $SQUID_IP -i eth0 -p tcp -j ACCEPT
 -A PREROUTING -s $NETWORK_SPACE -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j
 REDIRECT --to-ports 8080
 -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE
 COMMIT
 # Completed on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012

 ---

 Catch is that i use l2 redirection, so source and destination is eth0, no
 gre tunnel. Can it be done or should a create a virtual device and redirect
 input from there?


 Thank you in advance
 John




 --
 Thank you
 Indunil Jayasooriya




--
Thank you
Indunil Jayasooriya


Re: [squid-users] Squid + Cisco 4500 + WCCP2

2012-07-25 Thread Ioannis Pliatsikas

Only 1 interface is available


Sorry. forgot to add that i have also configured that

echo 0  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/default/rp_filter
echo 0  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/eth0/rp_filter
echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward


Thank you
John


On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:05:33 +0530, Indunil Jayasooriya wrote:

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Indunil Jayasooriya
induni...@gmail.com wrote:



Can your squid box to go to internet ? ( Pls check /etc/resolv.conf 
file )


How many interfaces does your squid box have?

1 or 2 ?

in /etc/sysctl.conf  file , pls check net.ipv4.ip_forward parameter? 
try

to make it to one in following manner.

net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1






On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Ioannis Pliatsikas 
gpli...@ee.duth.gr

wrote:


Very sorry for bothering you again

although i get the redirection from the router to squid, using 
tcpdump

(10.72.192.61 test internal address)

11:38:37.956330 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50690: Flags 
[S.],

seq 1048613649, ack 1347334415, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:38.399796 IP 10.72.192.61.50697  199.47.218.151.80: Flags 
[S], seq
3043000771, win 8192, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 
2,nop,nop,sackOK], length

0
11:38:38.399880 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags 
[S.],

seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:39.756353 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags 
[S.],

seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.356350 IP 176.9.44.80.80  10.72.192.61.50693: Flags [S.], 
seq

326259738, ack 1299448389, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.409101 IP 10.72.192.61.50697  199.47.218.151.80: Flags 
[S], seq
3043000771, win 8192, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 
2,nop,nop,sackOK], length

0
11:38:41.409164 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags 
[S.],

seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.556343 IP 176.9.44.80.80  10.72.192.61.50694: Flags [S.], 
seq

2634200113, ack 3423797704, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.756336 IP 199.47.218.151.80  10.72.192.61.50697: Flags 
[S.],

seq 3389808826, ack 3043000772, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:41.756362 IP 209.85.148.139.80  10.72.192.61.50695: Flags 
[S.],

seq 2040290141, ack 953271924, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0
11:38:42.356340 IP 209.85.148.139.80  10.72.192.61.50696: Flags 
[S.],

seq 69242255, ack 3941278742, win 14600, options [mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK,nop,wscale 4], length 0


i still can't get linux to redirect to squid (port 8080), 
access.log is

empty

i use the following iptables


-
# Generated by iptables-save v1.4.12.1 on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
*filter
:INPUT ACCEPT [105007:140596865]
:FORWARD ACCEPT [3:120]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [212743:136992211]
-A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 8080 -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT
COMMIT
# Completed on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
# Generated by iptables-save v1.4.12.1 on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012
*nat
:PREROUTING ACCEPT [0:0]
:INPUT ACCEPT [1254:65132]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [118:7345]
:POSTROUTING ACCEPT [0:0]
-A PREROUTING -d $SQUID_IP -i eth0 -p tcp -j ACCEPT
-A PREROUTING -s $NETWORK_SPACE -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j
REDIRECT --to-ports 8080
-A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE
COMMIT
# Completed on Wed Jul 25 11:36:37 2012


---

Catch is that i use l2 redirection, so source and destination is 
eth0, no
gre tunnel. Can it be done or should a create a virtual device and 
redirect

input from there?


Thank you in advance
John





--
Thank you
Indunil Jayasooriya





--
Thank you
Indunil Jayasooriya




Re: [squid-users] Squid + Cisco 4500 + WCCP2

2012-07-25 Thread Amos Jeffries

On 25/07/2012 10:29 p.m., Ioannis Pliatsikas wrote:

Only 1 interface is available


Sorry. forgot to add that i have also configured that

echo 0  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/default/rp_filter
echo 0  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/eth0/rp_filter
echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward


There is another rp_filter setting which can get in the way:
  echo 0  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/rp_filter

Amos



Re: [squid-users] Squid AD login problem

2012-07-25 Thread Amos Jeffries

On 25/07/2012 2:01 p.m., Eliezer Croitoru wrote:

On 7/24/2012 4:13 PM, Nicole Hähnel wrote:

Hi,

recently we are using Squid 3.1.20 on SLES11 SP1 to control the
webaccess in our Microsoft AD network.
There are some internal microsoft based websites like Sharepoint for
instance.
Without squid we can open these websites without renewed authentication
to the browser.
With squid (wpad file) we get a login box, but in spite of the right
credentials we won't be logged in.
All computers are authenticated to the AD, so squid has to pass through
the kerberos certificate.

Are there any hints on that?

Thanks!

Kind regards,
Nicole


what is the content of the WPAD script?
the access to the sharepoint and other internal server are through the 
squid server at all?
do you see anything logged in the access.log file when you are trying 
to access the sharepoint page?


Eliezer



Sharepoint is on my little list of MS software which breaks HTTP when 
faced with Squid-3.1 slightly unique combination of HTTP/1.0 to clients 
and HTTP/1.1 to servers. It seems to have some keep-alive issues with Squid.


The workaround is to use Squid-3.2 where more of HTTP/1.1 is supported. 
Meanwhile, I'm looking for someone to help design and run a permutation 
series of test cases on Squid to ensure it emits the correct 
keep-alive/close value in both directions.


Amos


[squid-users] Traffic redirection

2012-07-25 Thread Abhishek Chanda
Hi all,


I am trying to setup a topology like the one shown below where Squid
will be a transparent proxy. I have a restriction so that I cannot use
iptables to redirect traffic to Squid. So, there is a daemon in Box
that captures http traffic from Client and re-writes its Destination
IP to point to Squid and destination port to 3128. All boxes can
access each other. The problem is, I ran tcpdump on all boxes and I do
see traffic arriving at Squid, but Squid does not register a MISS or
HIT. The actual data still comes from Apache. Do I need to re-write
any HTTP header or some other configuration for this?

Client --- Box --- Squid - Apache

Thanks


[squid-users] Re: Traffic redirection

2012-07-25 Thread Abhishek Chanda
Hi all,

I observed two more things:
1. I ran wireshark on the Squid box and observed that the client is
looking for a service called ndl-aas on port 3128. But no such service
is running on the system.
2. netstat shows that Squid listens on IPV6 addresses (shows tcp6 for
port 3128).

Are these normal and expected?

Thanks

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Abhishek Chanda
abhishek.li...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,


 I am trying to setup a topology like the one shown below where Squid
 will be a transparent proxy. I have a restriction so that I cannot use
 iptables to redirect traffic to Squid. So, there is a daemon in Box
 that captures http traffic from Client and re-writes its Destination
 IP to point to Squid and destination port to 3128. All boxes can
 access each other. The problem is, I ran tcpdump on all boxes and I do
 see traffic arriving at Squid, but Squid does not register a MISS or
 HIT. The actual data still comes from Apache. Do I need to re-write
 any HTTP header or some other configuration for this?

 Client --- Box --- Squid - Apache

 Thanks


Re: [squid-users] Re: Traffic redirection

2012-07-25 Thread Amos Jeffries

On 26.07.2012 13:54, Abhishek Chanda wrote:

Hi all,

I observed two more things:
1. I ran wireshark on the Squid box and observed that the client is
looking for a service called ndl-aas on port 3128. But no such 
service

is running on the system.


Normal if your /etc/services is listing the IANA registrations instead 
of the SANS registrations.


You can change the port 3128 entry in that file to http-proxy to make 
it show Squid clearer.



2. netstat shows that Squid listens on IPV6 addresses (shows tcp6 for
port 3128).

Are these normal and expected?


Normal for IPv6-enabled Squid.




Thanks

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Abhishek Chanda wrote:

Hi all,


I am trying to setup a topology like the one shown below where Squid
will be a transparent proxy. I have a restriction so that I cannot 
use

iptables to redirect traffic to Squid. So, there is a daemon in Box
that captures http traffic from Client and re-writes its Destination
IP to point to Squid and destination port to 3128. All boxes can
access each other. The problem is, I ran tcpdump on all boxes and I 
do

see traffic arriving at Squid, but Squid does not register a MISS or
HIT. The actual data still comes from Apache. Do I need to re-write
any HTTP header or some other configuration for this?

Client --- Box --- Squid - Apache

Thanks


Squid version?

Squid requires some way to determine that the mapping has taken place, 
and to identify what the original details were.
The standard NAT functionality on your box usually provides this for 
DNAT via socket options.


Question is why you can't use the built-in software?

Amos



Re: [squid-users] Re: Traffic redirection

2012-07-25 Thread Abhishek Chanda
Hi Amos,

Thanks for the reply.
My Squid is 3.1.19. I am trying to use OpenFlow to automate the
deployment of Squid in my organization. When the OpenFlow controller
sees a new HTTP packet, it modifies it's destination IP and port to
that of Squid and sends it back. Thus, I expected I will not need
iptable rules here.

I am a bit confused about how Squid does DNAT. Can you point me to
some document?

Thanks

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Amos Jeffries squ...@treenet.co.nz wrote:
 On 26.07.2012 13:54, Abhishek Chanda wrote:

 Hi all,

 I observed two more things:
 1. I ran wireshark on the Squid box and observed that the client is
 looking for a service called ndl-aas on port 3128. But no such service
 is running on the system.


 Normal if your /etc/services is listing the IANA registrations instead of
 the SANS registrations.

 You can change the port 3128 entry in that file to http-proxy to make it
 show Squid clearer.


 2. netstat shows that Squid listens on IPV6 addresses (shows tcp6 for
 port 3128).

 Are these normal and expected?


 Normal for IPv6-enabled Squid.



 Thanks


 On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Abhishek Chanda wrote:

 Hi all,


 I am trying to setup a topology like the one shown below where Squid
 will be a transparent proxy. I have a restriction so that I cannot use
 iptables to redirect traffic to Squid. So, there is a daemon in Box
 that captures http traffic from Client and re-writes its Destination
 IP to point to Squid and destination port to 3128. All boxes can
 access each other. The problem is, I ran tcpdump on all boxes and I do
 see traffic arriving at Squid, but Squid does not register a MISS or
 HIT. The actual data still comes from Apache. Do I need to re-write
 any HTTP header or some other configuration for this?

 Client --- Box --- Squid - Apache

 Thanks


 Squid version?

 Squid requires some way to determine that the mapping has taken place, and
 to identify what the original details were.
 The standard NAT functionality on your box usually provides this for DNAT
 via socket options.

 Question is why you can't use the built-in software?

 Amos