Re: New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Trent wrote: "So, is it considered a 4-2-0, or a 0-2-4?" ___ Good question Trent. Rod locomotives are classified by the Whyte system (after Dutch Mechanical Engineer Frederick Methvan Whyte, employed by the New York Central) and are classified as 4-4-0, 4-6-2, etc. Shays and Heislers are classified as "2-truck", "3-truck", etc. As far as I can tell, oddities like this never seemed to get that sort of classification. However, IF the Whyte system were used, it would be a 4-2-0, owing to the fact that in this case, the engine is intended to run with the steam motor at the rear (the Whyte system always describing the locomotive's wheel sets from front to rear). Now I'm curious too. Anyone out there know more about this? Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bead blasting
Keith! Good to have you back! Later, Trent Keith Taylor wrote:
Re: Wick adventures
Hello Harry and Everyone, Harry, good idea on sealing the edges to keep the flame on top of the wick only. I haven't tried it yet, but I agree that it would help. I also like your idea of square heads. Thanks for sharing your ideas. Do you mind to elaborate on your thoughts of inconsistent firing due to the wet-dry-wet-dry cycle? I really don't understand but I know that there's something to be learned. Thanks in advance. Would it be possible that the brick would help reduce heat transfer from the flame to the wick cup? I have absolutely no real evidence of the possibility of that happening, but if the edges of the brick heads were sealed as Harry suggested, the flame would not be as near the cup, and the brick might actually act as an insulator for the cup. Ok, perhaps I'm out on a limb with that one, but it's a thought. Something that I used today to shape another set of "experimenting wicks" was a small belt sander. This one was a cheap Delta stationary model with a 1" wide belt. Worked great, but left a lot of (abrasive!) dust around. A vacuum nearby should help with that problem. If anyone tries a belt sander, work with it slowly. It's mighty easy to take too much off in a hurry. The platten of the belt sander left an edge on the underside of the head of the wick that required only a quick bump with a file to dress it sharply. I also found that an abrasive cutoff wheel (Dremel size) makes quick work of the notch in the bottom, or "Dowler Split" as Harry has dubbed it. The brick that I have on hand seems to have a terrible amount of rather large air pockets (bubbles) inside. Those spots have created most of my trouble with unwanted chipping and breaking the brick during "machining". Really fragile stuff. Reminds me of trying to machine bread that's been left in the open for a couple of weeks and has gotten hard. (Ahh, hard bread. Those glorious college years. ) Lastly, I noticed today (after 3 years of having the locomotive) that the holes in the supply tube of each wick cup was only drilled on the top. I carefully drilled holes diagonally through the supply tube to allow fuel to escape the bottom of the supply tube. I know I didn't gain but the diameter of the tube in fuel supply, but every little bit helps. Later, Trent > > At that point I lit the whole shebang off. The flame was full and >dead blue and eminated from all exposed areas of the wick head. A little >bit of deftly placed breeze (aka draft) produced a very well directed and >compact leeward flame. I'll try to test it in the loco this weekend. My >feeling at this point is that for the Pannier firebox the flame will want >to be confined to the top surface of the burner. No doubt this could be >done by killing off the edges with a smear of silicone sealer. > >Regards, >Harry >
Re: New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Thanks Terry. The supports were cut from 18 gauge mild steel using a jeweler's saw. I spent more time laying out several variations than I did making them. Both pieces were cut, drilled, and then bent at the same time to ensure symmetry. Mild steel is a joy to work with. After I separated them I did a little finish work with needle files. The bushings are spares from some axleboxes I never used. I'm still (stubbornly) using Sterno. I've had excellent results with it for the past several years. Of course when it gets stale, you need to "spike" it with a little denatured alcohol. The funny thing is, it seems to retain much of its viscosity even when cut with large portions of alcohol. Either way, the "secret" is to raise steam, extinguish the fire, top up the Sterno in the fuel pan, and then re-light it. Then you can settle in for a 20 minute run on a good pan of fuel. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Welcome Back! (was: Re: bead blasting)
Keith, You're typing!! Congratulations! Knew they couldn't keep you away from the keyboard for long... - - Steve
Re: New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Thanks Steve. I got your excellent suggestions for the Project website, sorry I didn't respond sooner. The comment about something to get a sense of scale from hit home. Several people were confused by the picture from Jon's steamup. They thought it might be a riding scale... Thanks again, Mike
Re: Building a live steam track
Walt replied to this thread where I had talked about using truck bed liner as a cover. He asked about its burn rate and melting point. He referred to alcohol dribbles burning on such products and I told him that I had seen small amounts of alcohol burn with no problem. I have since tested using a larger spill that would take longer for the alcohol to burn off. I found that if the alcohol burned long enough on a spot it could start to melt the speedliner (product I used) under it and then start to burn. Info on specific technical data on speedliner can be found at www.speedliner.com The manufacturer is Industrial Polymers Corporation and can be reached by phone at 800-766-3832 and there main distributor is Bearcat industries and can be reached at 800-821-8820. I would hope that between the web site and the phone numbers given you could find actual burn and boil points of this product. Good luck and have a safe and happy New Year...Steve At 10:51 PM 12/30/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Has anyone done a survey of alternate construction techniques and >materials for an elevated live steam track? I'm doing the planning for >one of my own and would like to learn from other's experiences. > >In recent visits to steam ups I've seen the following variations: > >Uprights: > a. Steel pipe, > b. 4x4 wood posts, > c. plastic water pipe > >Height adjustment: > a. Telescoping steel pipe with drilled bolt locations, > b. wooden shims between posts on top, > c. threaded plastic pipe fittings > >Stringers between posts: > a. Bender board (garden border wood strips), > b. redwood or fir1x4's, > c. rolled aluminum 1x2's > >Top: > a. 3/4" Plywood, > b. 1x1 crosswise strips of redwood fastened to stringers > >Weather protection: > a. Roofing material, > b. polyurethane sealant on the plywood (or whatever magic stuff >Jon Bloom put on his track) > c. redwood > >I haven't seen any articles in SitG or GRwy discussing this topic. Lots >of info on ground level electric GRwys but nothing on elevated live >steam RRs. > >It seems to me that figures-of-merit of the various techniques are: > >1. Stability: Track stays levels and unwarped in spite of temperature, >humidity, aging > >2. Ease of construction > >3. Cost > >4. Ease of modification - height adjustment to deal with settling and >warping and also ease of adding sidings, additional loops > >Thanks for any ideas and opinions >
Re: DH Room
Ohh, too bad, we'll miss you Walt. Jim
Re: bead blasting
Hello Everyone, Sounds like the preferred choice (gratis) has been found, but... At my local Wal-Mart and other tool stores you can buy a "sandblast kit" for around $15 or so. No cabinet, just the siphon hose, fittings, and the blast nozzle. It's rather large for the use that spawned this discussion, but it may be useful information to someone in the future. It's marketed under the "Buffalo" brand. Cheap stuff, but if you only use it twice a year or so, it should get the job done. IMO Royce, thanks for passing along the Harbor Freight ad. Later, Trent
Re: bead blasting
Hello Walt, Hmmm. Very good question, but I have no answer. A cheap sealable dish from the local Wal-Mart might keep the smell under control enough to keep the parts indoors to prevent freezing. Obviously it would depend on the size of the parts. The freezing point of vinegar?! Sounds like an "Ask Jeevs" question. Later, Trent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Any idea what the freezing point is for the vinegar? Might take considerably >more time in the far frozen North! >
Re: New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Hello Michael, Very cool locomotive!! So, is it considered a 4-2-0, or a 0-2-4? I hope that's not a stupid question, but it looks like it could be either. Thanks for sharing the inspiring pics. Later, Trent Michael Martin wrote: >I managed to break one of my resolutions already (that of >getting to bed at a decent hour). However, I was able to >fulfill another in the process. I finished my latest >vertical boilered project. I have posted a few pictures >at: www.panyo.com/pro2 >
DH Room
As of 8:23 PM EST a room became available at the Ramada Inn, Diamondhead, MS. It was supposed to be downstairs, non smoking. Good Luck. The CFO of the SWAMP RR said I have to stay here because of the unprecedented rainy, cool weather. Also have an Exec. Comm. Mtg. and Board of Directors meeting plus three Revenue Run Days at The Depot. At least I'll still be running trains! Keep your steam up! Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate
Re: bead blasting
Jim, Take advantage of the environment: Gather walnuts locally (they will probably be Black Walnuts, better than the thin, pale English ones) Pulverize shells with sledgehammer, etc. Put shell material and wheels in a suitable container, seal the top. Remove all outer clothing except for "long johns". Stand outside holding the container with the wheels and walnut shells. After a suitable time, depending on the temperature and how reactive you are to the "chills" you will have clean wheels -- a Yankee version of the Vibratory Abrasive Finisher. Keep your steam up! Mr. Lunkenheimer
RE: Building a live steam track
For my railway I used 12"x 12" concrete piers for the base of the 4x4s to keep them off of the ground. They are sold at Home Depot for about $4 each. Just dig a hole and place them in , back fill, and you are ready to start framing. I used 4x4 posts and 2x4s to each post. 1x 6 for the decking. Redwood bender board for the return loops. All wood is redwood. Sprayed it with Thompsons water seal. Just completed a few months ago so I hope it lasts. Sincerely Steve Ciambrone Sr. Test Engineer L-3 Ocean Systems -Original Message- From: Jeffrey Williams [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject:Building a live steam track Has anyone done a survey of alternate construction techniques and materials for an elevated live steam track? I'm doing the planning for one of my own and would like to learn from other's experiences. In recent visits to steam ups I've seen the following variations: Uprights: a. Steel pipe, b. 4x4 wood posts, c. plastic water pipe Height adjustment: a. Telescoping steel pipe with drilled bolt locations, b. wooden shims between posts on top, c. threaded plastic pipe fittings Stringers between posts: a. Bender board (garden border wood strips), b. redwood or fir1x4's, c. rolled aluminum 1x2's Top: a. 3/4" Plywood, b. 1x1 crosswise strips of redwood fastened to stringers Weather protection: a. Roofing material, b. polyurethane sealant on the plywood (or whatever magic stuff Jon Bloom put on his track) c. redwood I haven't seen any articles in SitG or GRwy discussing this topic. Lots of info on ground level electric GRwys but nothing on elevated live steam RRs. It seems to me that figures-of-merit of the various techniques are: 1. Stability: Track stays levels and unwarped in spite of temperature, humidity, aging 2. Ease of construction 3. Cost 4. Ease of modification - height adjustment to deal with settling and warping and also ease of adding sidings, additional loops Thanks for any ideas and opinions
Re: bead blasting
jim, we will be using crushed walnut shells. gets rid of rust, doesn't hurt parent metal. i do have tougher abrasives, but the walnut shells will work just fine! keith - Original Message - From: Jim Curry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 2:05 PM Subject: Re: bead blasting > Thanks to everyone for all the input. One thing I hadn't considered was > tumbling in a (fine sand?) that Keith has. Gratis is cheaper than > wholesale. > > Thanks again. > > Jim >
Re: bead blasting
At 02:05 PM 1/2/02 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks to everyone for all the input. One thing I hadn't considered was >tumbling in a (fine sand?) that Keith has. Gratis is cheaper than >wholesale. Jim, Very cheap to rig up a tumbler. I hear walnut shells are great as a tumbling medium. Regards, Harry
Re: bead blasting
Thanks to everyone for all the input. One thing I hadn't considered was tumbling in a (fine sand?) that Keith has. Gratis is cheaper than wholesale. Thanks again. Jim
Re: bead blasting
That is a really great buy, Royce. Thanks for the information. It gives the pressure but not the CFM required for the #10 nozzle which is furnished and the table that I have for CFM don't go that small. That is a very important factor to consider if any amount of sandblasting is done or it will be slow progress as one waits while the pressure builds up. Any cheap 5hp single phase out there--No?? Then cheap 3 phase?? Geoff I am on a mailing list for Harbor Freight. They send me sale notices for items >which they are selling below their everyday low prices. On their current >flyer, >they have the bead blaster cabinet that I have on sale for $70. It's a metal >cabinet. For that price, you couldn't even get all the parts to make it from >scratch (including the time to find them). Although I don't have alot of >experience with it, as long as you have a decent compressor, it seems to work >fine. Go to The info and >look under blasters. > >royce in SB
Re: New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
What a beauty Mike! Where did you get the Support for the large chain sprocket? It looks great! Thanks for sharing!! Hey, what are you using for fuel? Terry Griner Columbus Ohio USA >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/02/02 03:12AM >>> Happy New Year all, I managed to break one of my resolutions already (that of getting to bed at a decent hour). However, I was able to fulfill another in the process. I finished my latest vertical boilered project. I have posted a few pictures at: www.panyo.com/pro2 I wish all of you a fulfilling, prosperous, and peaceful new year. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Mike, It looks great! Steve
Re: bead blasting
I am on a mailing list for Harbor Freight. They send me sale notices for items which they are selling below their everyday low prices. On their current flyer, they have the bead blaster cabinet that I have on sale for $70. It's a metal cabinet. For that price, you couldn't even get all the parts to make it from scratch (including the time to find them). Although I don't have alot of experience with it, as long as you have a decent compressor, it seems to work fine. Go to http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/category.taf?f=displaysubcats&pricetype=S and look under blasters. royce in SB VR Bass wrote: > > I thought if you were inquiring about possibly building one that would > > be simple enough to do but surprisingly a very quick search on Google > > didn't turn up anything on building a small inexpensive one. > > There was just such an article in Model Railroader, showing how to build both a > cabinet and the sandblasting nozzle. You can tell this was a while ago, since > it involved some simple machining. The original magazine can be obtained > directly from Kalmbach or you can get a photodopy from the NMRA library (they > charge per page). > > "Build your own sandblast system", Model Railroader, September 1977 page 68 > > http://db.kalmbach.com/catalog/catalogjump.lasso?Menu=backissues > http://www.nmra.org/library > -vance- > > Keep in mind that, before plastics, only rich people could afford to have poor > taste. > -- Don Featherstone, creator of the plastic lawn flamingo >
Re: bead blasting
Cut it out, Walt! We installed a heater last year! Jim
Re: bead blasting
Trent, Any idea what the freezing point is for the vinegar? Might take considerably more time in the far frozen North! Keep your steam up! Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate
New Year's Resolutions and Live Steam
Happy New Year all, I managed to break one of my resolutions already (that of getting to bed at a decent hour). However, I was able to fulfill another in the process. I finished my latest vertical boilered project. I have posted a few pictures at: www.panyo.com/pro2 I wish all of you a fulfilling, prosperous, and peaceful new year. Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
