Re: Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage
Could someone in the know inform the Diamondhead Chief Enforcer about this so we don't spend the weekend wondering where the traction went. Mike Eorgoff near Chicago - Original Message - From: Clark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:58 AM Subject: Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage Howdy all. A short background. Here at the house we have now had three different Accucraft C-16's operated. The first was from Seattle during my annual steamup. Much to my and the owners surprise and consternation, the engine was leaking steam oil out the piston rod packing glan so bad that in one lap the steam oil tank was emptied and the contents wound up on railhead of my outside track loop. The car wheels then spread the oil out evenly. It was so bad that any engine that ran the rest of the weekend slipped it's drivers with ease. Well time and weather cleaned the track and all was well. Enter the second and third C-16's purchased by local Las Vegas Live Steamers. Both of those engines had their first run on my track. Again oil was coming out in gross quantities. On these engines the excess oil was winding up in the smoke box, draining out the hole in the bottom, dripping on the pilot truck pivot arm, working it's way back to the pivot pin, traveling across the front brake stiffening rod and onto the brake shoes and then directly onto the rail head. If you wanted to make an oil to track delivery system this was the very best. In one lap around the track you could coat the entire track with an even film of steam oil. If we are having this problem here with 3 different C16's I'm sure that there are many more out there doing the very same thing. Lou Banning, owner of the #2 C-16 to run here, and I have been studying on this problem and yesterday we found a partial fix. Lou removed the stretcher rod that goes between the front brake shoes leaving the brake hanger just dangling. We then ran the engine for 1 and 1/2 hours (3 different runs) on the Las Vegas Garden Railway Society's modular railroad Christmas time setup in the Sprint Telephone Co. main office lobby. All the oil was now being deposited in the center line of the track instead on the rail. We were very pleased with this development as both steam and electric trains are run on the modules. We didn't have to clean 200 feet of track after every run now. The bad news is the engine is still using excessive steam oil. My guess is that the pickup tube in the running board oil tank reservoir is placed too low in the tank which allows straight steam oil to be discharged into the dead leg connecting line until the oil level is even with the outlet tube. At this time it begins to regulate normally. I suspect that when the regulation point is reached, most of the oil has already been discharged into the connecting line, gone through the cylinders, collected on the inside of the smoke box and drained out and onto the track via the route described above. So remove the stretcher rod between the front brake shoes and the rail oiling problem will go away. If you want the brake shoes to show, just put a nut on the back and attach the shoe to the hanger without the rod. Now to figure out what to do about the excessive oil usage. Also be warned that any C-16 that intends to run on my track will have to have the stretcher rod removed before running here. A clean track is a happy track. Best Wishes for the Holidays Ya'll Clark
Re: Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage
Make sure those boys go last on the weight pulling contest! Jim
Re: Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage
I'm sure I'm oversimplifying the problem. But I'd look for a way to put a restricter plug or tube in line to slow down the oil distribution. Respectfully; Phil.P. (much snipped) Now to figure out what to do about the excessive oil usage. Also be warned that any C-16 that intends to run on my track will have to have the stretcher rod removed before running here. A clean track is a happy track. Best Wishes for the Holidays Ya'll Clark
Re: Another view on Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage
Great suggestions Jeffrey: The engines I describe are all different. The first was a #42, the second was a #278 serial number 96, and the third was a Bumble Bee #268. I will attempt to get the serial numbers of the other two over time. I don't like the straight through exhaust solution because of all the oil that will be ejected on to the finish of the engine. However the restricted flow idea has merit. As for your engine I'm going to guess that the front spreader bar is not touching the pilot truck support frame. It's the fact that the spreader (spacer / stiffener) bar on the front brake shoes rubs on that pilot truck frame which allows the oil to migrate out to the brake shoes. If the pilot truck frame doesn't touch then the oil just moves to the pivot point and drips on the track center. You can see the part we removed at http://home.earthlink.net/~clarklord/_images/c16spreaderbar.jpg Clark Jeffrey Williams wrote: Sorry to contradict the prevailing howl about C-16 oil consumption, but I haven't seen the same degree of crisis with my C-16. My unit is production #83 of the # 278 style. Although steam oil does eventually accumulate on the pilot truck pivot and drip occasionally in the middle of the ties (after a 45 minute run, after all), it doesn't seem to be spreading on the rails to a great extent. It may be that there is some variability on the tube ID connecting the steam inlet to the cylinders to the reservoir or the restriction in the steam fittings, so that the oil consumption on my unit is less that on others. Of those on list experiencing high oil consumption, what are the production serial numbers and are you running #42, #268 or #278 models? Maybe here's a thread we can pull to discover the cause or connection to a particular production run. I might suggest alternate strategies to reduce oil spread: 1. Short term solution - replace exhaust tube with a straight thru, rather than crimped/baffled tube so that the oil blows straight out the stack. You can thread a 1/8 dia tube (available at hobby shops) to M3 x 0.5 thread with only a bit of effort and make one of your own. 2. Remove the lubricator tube fitting and insert a length of wire into the tube to restrict the flow. Try different diameters of piano wire (available at model airplane shops) until restriction meets your needs for oil consuption. This would be a lot easier than installing and sealing a needle valve and once set, would not require further adjustment. This technique is used to balance pressure and flow on hydrostatic bearing spindles on ultra-precision machine tools. 3. Risky - crimp the tube to restrict flow. 4. What is the viscosity of the steam oil you are using? Maybe heavier (higher viscosity) oil would help the problem. === Clark Lord wrote: Howdy all. A short background. Here at the house we have now had three different Accucraft C-16's operated. The first was from Seattle during my annual steamup. Much to my and the owners surprise and consternation, the engine was leaking steam oil out the piston rod packing glan so bad that in one lap the steam oil tank was emptied and the contents wound up on railhead of my outside track loop. The car wheels then spread the oil out evenly. It was so bad that any engine that ran the rest of the weekend slipped it's drivers with ease. Well time and weather cleaned the track and all was well. Enter the second and third C-16's purchased by local Las Vegas Live Steamers. Both of those engines had their first run on my track. Again oil was coming out in gross quantities. On these engines the excess oil was winding up in the smoke box, draining out the hole in the bottom, dripping on the pilot truck pivot arm, working it's way back to the pivot pin, traveling across the front brake stiffening rod and onto the brake shoes and then directly onto the rail head. If you wanted to make an oil to track delivery system this was the very best. In one lap around the track you could coat the entire track with an even film of steam oil. If we are having this problem here with 3 different C16's I'm sure that there are many more out there doing the very same thing. Lou Banning, owner of the #2 C-16 to run here, and I have been studying on this problem and yesterday we found a partial fix. Lou removed the stretcher rod that goes between the front brake shoes leaving the brake hanger just dangling. We then ran the engine for 1 and 1/2 hours (3 different runs) on the Las Vegas Garden Railway Society's modular railroad Christmas time setup in the Sprint Telephone Co. main office lobby. All the oil was now being deposited in the center line of the track instead on the rail. We were very pleased with this development as both steam and electric trains are run on the modules. We didn't have to clean 200 feet of track after every run now
Re: Another view on Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage
It's true, Accucraft ain't perfect but if you check out the photo Mike Martin took of my C-16 recently at: http://www.panyo.com/dan/images/1Y170068.jpg then all oil consumption sins will be forgiven!!! A beautiful thing! Jeff == Clark Lord wrote: Great suggestions Jeffrey: The engines I describe are all different. The first was a #42, the second was a #278 serial number 96, and the third was a Bumble Bee #268. I will attempt to get the serial numbers of the other two over time. I don't like the straight through exhaust solution because of all the oil that will be ejected on to the finish of the engine. However the restricted flow idea has merit. As for your engine I'm going to guess that the front spreader bar is not touching the pilot truck support frame. It's the fact that the spreader (spacer / stiffener) bar on the front brake shoes rubs on that pilot truck frame which allows the oil to migrate out to the brake shoes. If the pilot truck frame doesn't touch then the oil just moves to the pivot point and drips on the track center. You can see the part we removed at http://home.earthlink.net/~clarklord/_images/c16spreaderbar.jpg Clark Jeffrey Williams wrote: Sorry to contradict the prevailing howl about C-16 oil consumption, but I haven't seen the same degree of crisis with my C-16. My unit is production #83 of the # 278 style. Although steam oil does eventually accumulate on the pilot truck pivot and drip occasionally in the middle of the ties (after a 45 minute run, after all), it doesn't seem to be spreading on the rails to a great extent. It may be that there is some variability on the tube ID connecting the steam inlet to the cylinders to the reservoir or the restriction in the steam fittings, so that the oil consumption on my unit is less that on others. Of those on list experiencing high oil consumption, what are the production serial numbers and are you running #42, #268 or #278 models? Maybe here's a thread we can pull to discover the cause or connection to a particular production run. I might suggest alternate strategies to reduce oil spread: 1. Short term solution - replace exhaust tube with a straight thru, rather than crimped/baffled tube so that the oil blows straight out the stack. You can thread a 1/8 dia tube (available at hobby shops) to M3 x 0.5 thread with only a bit of effort and make one of your own. 2. Remove the lubricator tube fitting and insert a length of wire into the tube to restrict the flow. Try different diameters of piano wire (available at model airplane shops) until restriction meets your needs for oil consuption. This would be a lot easier than installing and sealing a needle valve and once set, would not require further adjustment. This technique is used to balance pressure and flow on hydrostatic bearing spindles on ultra-precision machine tools. 3. Risky - crimp the tube to restrict flow. 4. What is the viscosity of the steam oil you are using? Maybe heavier (higher viscosity) oil would help the problem. === Clark Lord wrote: Howdy all. A short background. Here at the house we have now had three different Accucraft C-16's operated. The first was from Seattle during my annual steamup. Much to my and the owners surprise and consternation, the engine was leaking steam oil out the piston rod packing glan so bad that in one lap the steam oil tank was emptied and the contents wound up on railhead of my outside track loop. The car wheels then spread the oil out evenly. It was so bad that any engine that ran the rest of the weekend slipped it's drivers with ease. Well time and weather cleaned the track and all was well. Enter the second and third C-16's purchased by local Las Vegas Live Steamers. Both of those engines had their first run on my track. Again oil was coming out in gross quantities. On these engines the excess oil was winding up in the smoke box, draining out the hole in the bottom, dripping on the pilot truck pivot arm, working it's way back to the pivot pin, traveling across the front brake stiffening rod and onto the brake shoes and then directly onto the rail head. If you wanted to make an oil to track delivery system this was the very best. In one lap around the track you could coat the entire track with an even film of steam oil. If we are having this problem here with 3 different C16's I'm sure that there are many more out there doing the very same thing. Lou Banning, owner of the #2 C-16 to run here, and I have been studying on this problem and yesterday we found a partial fix. Lou removed the stretcher rod that goes between the front brake shoes leaving the brake hanger just dangling. We then ran the engine for 1 and 1/2 hours (3 different runs) on the Las Vegas Garden Railway Society's modular
Re: Another view on Accucraft C-16 excessive steam oil usage
We agree with the beautiful thing concept. http://home.earthlink.net/~clarklord/_images/dscn0036.jpg Steaming on the LVGRS modules this afternoon. CBL Jeffrey Williams wrote: It's true, Accucraft ain't perfect but if you check out the photo Mike Martin took of my C-16 recently at: http://www.panyo.com/dan/images/1Y170068.jpg then all oil consumption sins will be forgiven!!! A beautiful thing! Jeff
Re: lsbandb: R/C on the Accucraft C-16 Steamer
And while I'm on the subject of the C-16, I think someone (Vance?) found some small tools for the little screws and allen keys. Where can they be bought? Clark Lord suggested using Allen-head screws for sockets, and they do work very well. I screwed one into a dowel and then turned it down so it would reach into small places, which helps. I also bought some real metric nut-drivers at Caboose Hobbies when I was there last month. They were around $5 each, IIRC. -vance- Keep in mind that, before plastics, only rich people could afford to have poor taste. -- Don Featherstone, creator of the plastic lawn flamingo
(Fwd) Accucraft C-16 radio control news
NEWS FLASH! Pete Thornton has made a breakthrough in installing radio control gear into the Accucraft C-16! -vance- --- Forwarded message follows --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:44:52 EST Subject:lsbandb: Re: photo op To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm halfway through converting to r/c, and I'm taking lots of pictures. The tender comes apart with the 4 big brass corner bolts - and the floor is separate, so putting the receiver and batteries in there turned out to be very easy. I thought I'd have to cut the top of the water tank, but no need. I bought extenders for the servo cables, and a mini-servo with 36 oz-in of force for the Johnson bar, so I should be done next week. I'm thinking of writing it up for SitG, if the pics come out. Pete --- End of forwarded message ---
couplers on Accucraft C-16
There's good news and bad news regarding the couplers on the Accucraft C- 16. The bad news is that they're about 1/4 too low, and it turns out that getting the coupler pocket off the buffer beam is @#$% near impossible. You'll need a minuscule nut driver, an magnifying visor, good light and some luck from what I can tell. The good news is that the knuckles are easily exchangable with Kadees. Luckily, I had one of those knuckles that are offset upwards (it's one of the 83X series, but I don't remember which one). That knuckle comes out at just the right height when mounted in the Kadee pocket. You have to drill out the hole in the shank to 17/64 to fit over the post, but otherwise it's just a screwdriver upgrade. So, if you have or are getting a C-16 and need to pull rolling stock with an accurate 1:20.3 coupler height, that's a simple solution while you search for a place to buy that tiny metric nutdriver. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Accucraft C-16 notes
Vance, You wrote: -- the safety is completely inaccessible as far as I can tell! This is not a good thing, since you can't check your safety when you're raising steam. I was alarmed to see that mine finally blew at 70 psig, though the manual says it's set for 55 psi and that I should keep my hands off it. Well, I have to, but I don't like it. I'm a bit concerned by a loco with a safety that can't be tested and may be set 20% off target, and a clock that may be 20% off. My steam dome was very tight, screwed off like the sand dome. I have a 3x5x1/8 sheet of Viton that I used to get a no mar grip. The pop is down in a sockit, could not get to it to adjust. The cap comes off the pop, but will need a 'tool' to remove to adjust. BTW, mine blew at 65 psig. This is NOT an optional tool -- you MUST have one or you can't get any oil into the @!#% tiny filler tube. Steam oil is so thick that the first drop hits the neck and the surface tension keeps it there longer than the half-life of Strontium 90. Meanwhile, the little syringe they give you to suck water out of the lubricator is totally useless, since you can only get it about 2mm into the neck. This syringe is for filling only, put it into the tank and wipe off after filling. I have a 'LUER-LOCK' needle that I put on it to suck out the water. It's about 1/16. The tank holds about 20cc of oil. Bob mentioned a loose exhaust tube. Mine was loose, too, but I was able to tighten it from the top of the smokebox, since the top is flattened. I would like to hear your reaction to the chuff with and without the resonator tube. The smokebox arrangement on this engine seems very effective, acoustically, so I think it possible that a secondary tube might actually diminish the chuff. Try it both ways, and let us know, please. This smokebox is fully insulated, even the door. My tube is installed into the bottom as best I could. This maybe causing the burner roughness, might need to enlarge the birds mouth for more flow. when the door is open it's not so bad. Last night after the sunset I was able to make the flame shoot out the door three inches. Must be careful not to set the gas too high. When the replacement tube arrives I will do some more testing. Another thing to look out for is the sander pipes. One of mine was so long that I think it must have been dragging the track. I was blaming the derailments at track joints (esp. when backing) on the hasty tracklaying and the lack of leading wheels in reverse, but it didn't make sense to me that the lead truck would have much effect, since it just swings loose on its pivot. After putting it up on blocks again, I noticed the absurdly long sander pipe, and cut it off. Haven't tried running it again on the track to see if that cleared up the derailment problem, but it would certainly have caused trouble at some point. It would be a good thing to devise a centering mechanism for the lead truck so that it actually did some leading, rather than simply dangling in the breeze. My lead truck was picking one frog, going to go over that one with a Dremmel. A stiffer spring pressing the truck down might also help. It will be Sunday before I get to run next. Will start out on blocks this time. Since I'm running on my workbench, I put a piece of thin cotton cloth over the stack to keep the oil from getting all over my other projects. This produced a much more visible steam plume, even through the cloth! I am going to experiment some with a turbulator for the spark arrestor in an effort to replicate this effect. While running I stopped her several times and restarted. When she started the first few chuff's were very pronounced and the steam was blown three feet in the air. VERY COOL!!! Bob Wescott _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Accucraft C-16 notes
Bob, Thanks for the notes about the 268 version of the live steam C-16. I was interested to read that this one has a removable steam dome for access to the safety valve. The No. 42 does not -- the safety is completely inaccessible as far as I can tell! This is not a good thing, since you can't check your safety when you're raising steam. I was alarmed to see that mine finally blew at 70 psig, though the manual says it's set for 55 psi and that I should keep my hands off it. Well, I have to, but I don't like it. I'm a bit concerned by a loco with a safety that can't be tested and may be set 20% off target, and a clock that may be 20% off. I put almost another hour on mine tonight, both on blocks and on track hastily laid on the garage floor. Herewith, some notes from tonight's session: I notice that the owner's manual lists an accessory called an oil pump. This is NOT an optional tool -- you MUST have one or you can't get any oil into the @!#% tiny filler tube. Steam oil is so thick that the first drop hits the neck and the surface tension keeps it there longer than the half-life of Strontium 90. Meanwhile, the little syringe they give you to suck water out of the lubricator is totally useless, since you can only get it about 2mm into the neck. On the Ruby, the water-sucking situation was even worse, so I took some 3/32 copper tubing I had in the non-ferrous and made a 3-inch-long extension for the syringe. I drilled the tip 3/32 and glued in the tubing and made a great sucker which also works very nicely as an oil pump for filling the C-16' tank. Bob mentioned a loose exhaust tube. Mine was loose, too, but I was able to tighten it from the top of the smokebox, since the top is flattened. I would like to hear your reaction to the chuff with and without the resonator tube. The smokebox arrangement on this engine seems very effective, acoustically, so I think it possible that a secondary tube might actually diminish the chuff. Try it both ways, and let us know, please. On that topic, watch the engine carefully the first few times you run (preferably on blocks). I found several things that started off loose or became loose after some running and heat/cool cycling, including the valve chest and cylinder covers and the body of the blowdown valve, which seeped onto the cab floor. Another thing to look out for is the sander pipes. One of mine was so long that I think it must have been dragging the track. I was blaming the derailments at track joints (esp. when backing) on the hasty tracklaying and the lack of leading wheels in reverse, but it didn't make sense to me that the lead truck would have much effect, since it just swings loose on its pivot. After putting it up on blocks again, I noticed the absurdly long sander pipe, and cut it off. Haven't tried running it again on the track to see if that cleared up the derailment problem, but it would certainly have caused trouble at some point. I wonder about the air hose on the tender, too. It's a great touch for a fine- scale model, but overkill for this one, and probably a source of derailment at some point when it snags a switch frog or a twig between the ties. It would be a good thing to devise a centering mechanism for the lead truck so that it actually did some leading, rather than simply dangling in the breeze. Another small issue is that when the safety weeps, it drops water directly onto the valve motion and, worse, right between the second and third drivers. This can't be good for traction, and will probably require some kind of drip shield or diverter. Since I'm running on my workbench, I put a piece of thin cotton cloth over the stack to keep the oil from getting all over my other projects. This produced a much more visible steam plume, even through the cloth! I am going to experiment some with a turbulator for the spark arrestor in an effort to replicate this effect. The prototypical diamond stacks had one sort of diverter or another, which moved the exhaust stream in a spiral path, giving the cinders time to to lose momentum and drop out of the stream. I hope to be able to cool the exhaust a little with a similar device, and slow it down with the screen a prototypical arrestor would have had, to get some more condensation above the stack. One cool thing I noticed is that, after a couple of runs, there's enough steam oil collected in the smokebox that you get a terrific plume of actual smoke the next time you fire up. Very cool! Almost makes me consider one of those smoke generators like the SteamLines Shay had. Tonight's run was very good -- smooth and trouble-free. I got tired of standing around in an increasingly humid garage after 30 minutes into the second boiler load and shut it down. This is going to be a RUNNING engine, good for some serious hauling and switching, with a minimum of downtime for servicing. Hot dog! regards, -vance- Vance Bass
Re: Accucraft C-16
Vance, Eric and others, Regarding the slip of drivers on code 215 NS rail or any other material or size rail: The main problem, when there is one , is the material of the driver or tire. Stainless steel drivers seem to slip more than others. My Pannier 0-6-0 with such drivers would slip easier than my Steamlines 0-6-0 with cast iron drivers. Some folks say aluminum rail is worse. Seems to depend on how much oil is on the rail. Some rail has a flat top resulting is less of a contact patch than others. Other rails have a radius on the top, as do prototype rails, resulting in a larger contact patch which should improve traction. Regarding RC. I took out the standard RC in my Fowler some years ago do to the throttle wag from glitching. It worked much better with manual control. I finally had a chance to try the RCS system when I installed one in a friend's Daylight. I was quite impressed. The system works really well with zero glitching. It only speaks when spoken to. The programmable limits on both throttle and reverser are a bonus. For the antenna I screwed the shortened wire to the aluminum coach body where the Receiver and battery are located. The coach is insulated from the track by delrin ( plastic) side frames. I tried other antenna arrangements but this seemed best. I was so impressed I bought another and will install it in my Fowler. Although I do prefer hands on it is a bit of fun to have RC in at least 1 loco. GaryB
Accucraft C-16
I got my live steam Accucraft C-16 last night (finally!). It's the old-timer, No. 42, and beautifully done. But I do have some questions and observations I would like to share with you. I note that the footplate extension (that flap between the cab floor and the tender) is hinged at the bottom of the side floors, rather than the middle well where the firebox it. In other words, it does not extend over to the tender, but just hangs down about 1/2 too high, does nothing useful, and probably gets in the way of various operations in the cab. Are they all attached this way? What have you done about it? Looks like I'll need to remove the pivot rod, drill out the cab mounting brackets at their bottoms, and put in some kind of boss for the rod to go through. Cotter pins come to mind. The headlight looks very nice, but since it's not electrified, they left out the bulb, so there's a black hole in the center of the reflector. I removed the headlight and bracket (4 screws), then removed the headlight from the bracket (another 4 screws) and then removed the bottom plate from the headlight casting (two more screws). Seems like it would be relatively easy to insert a yellow LED and a tiny battery in there, with a micro switch out the bottom. Has anyone done this already, and if so would you share recommendations? The tender is huge, with lots of room for water and a hand pump and/or R/C gear. Except that they seem to have brazed the whole thing together and you can't get into the body unless you cut a hole up through the floor. Before I remove the frame and trucks to attempt this, do we have any other alternatives to getting into the tender body that I haven't discovered? Putting R/C in this one is going to be a big job, it appears. In addition to the inaccessible tender tank, the coal bin is filled with a really large gas tank (which is good) so there is no room for R/C gear there (too bad). The cab is stuffed full of other appliances and the crew floors are higher than the footplate, so there's even less room in there than in the Ruby for servos, let alone a battery pack and RX. And the steam regulator handle sticks way out the back of the cab. which is going to make placing a servo ... um ... interesting. The instructions, which I suspect were not written by the loco's designer, mention that it wasn't designed with R/C in mind (duh!) and that installing R/C will take some ingenuity. Yep. You won't believe this one. The coupler height is low, set at the Kadee G- scale gauge height. What?!? Looks like some hacking of the rear tender beam will be in order. Maybe I should just go for all link-and-pin couplers Now, I've got to get all those built-up boxcar kits painted, finish the caboose, etc. etc., in addition to improving the loco to meet my standards. If they would have only asked me first, they could have saved me so much trouble! :-) Haven't run it yet, so I can't comment on running characteristics, but it was obviously fired and run some so I trust it will be in pretty good adjustment. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
RE: AccuCraft C-16
Okay, Vance, and list, here is my report/opinions of my new C-16: Some background: Almost year and a half a go I first talked to Charlie and Bing at Accucraft to confirm the rumors that they were indeed considering producing a live steam version of their electric #42, 2-8-0, C16 Consolidation. Most of you have seen/heard of the Bumble Bee version of the C-16, the #42 is an old timer version with a gray boiler and maroon cab, the #278 is a black, coal burner version. All three models utilize the same boiler and running gear in the live steam versions. I talked to Accucraft on a monthly, and then weekly basis to keep up to date on the progress of the project. About a year ago I placed a formal order with one of Accucraft's dealers, Bob Pennock, the owner of Cross Creek Engineering. About six months ago, Charlie told me that the engines were finally in production starting with the Bumble Bee, then the #278 (Black), and finally the last engines to be produced would be the #42s. I guess Charlie was getting tired of me calling him :-) so about three months ago, he promised to me the first of the #42s produced (via Cross Creek). Ten days ago, my new engine arrived and I have run it on a daily basis since. I can not say enough about this engine... I will sum it up by saying it was definitely worth the wait! The engine performs smoothly, in both directions, can be throttled down to a crawl, or up to un prototypical speeds, and the power has to be felt to be believed! This definitely is no Ruby with respect to design, build, and performance. I don't own an Aster, but of course I have seen the quality and performance of those models at steamups. You cannot compare this engine to an Aster in detail, but I think you can in performance and build quality. And, other than one little tweak (described below), I haven't had to do anything to this engine to get it to perform flawlessly. The more I run it, and continue the break-in process, the better it runs. I have not gotten a run of less than an hour yet, and yesterday, (90 degrees), pulling six large LGB passenger cars, I had a measured run of almost 90 minutes (light off, to out of fuel). The fit and finish of the model is spectacular. This includes the tender. Being the #42, it is not as decked out with details as the Bumble Bee, but hey, that is why it is cheaper than the Bumble Bee, and now I can customize the engine to my tastes. The only issue I had with the engine, was it would develop a slight knock once it had been running for a half hour or so. After comparing notes with the only other guy in the country to yet receive his #42 (Tom Burns), we determined that the knock was coming from one of the main connecting rods barely hitting a crosshead brace, This only happened after these pieces heated up, and only in forward motion. Careful application of a jewelers file on the crosshead brace to remove a couple of thousandths of stainless steel and my knock was gone! I had talked to Accucraft before I discovered the cause of the knock, and I have to say they were extremely responsive and helpful. I don't think you will be able to find one of these models at $1500. They probably will be selling for closer to $2000. I got mine at the pre-production price because I ordered it so long ago. If anyone is interested, Bob Pennock at Cross Creek has a Bumble Bee in stock. The customer who ordered it backed out of the deal at the last minute. Bob is a great guy to deal with and his prices are competitive. In closing, I highly recommend this model. I believe it is a great value for the $ and it will not disappoint even the Aster owners among us. :-) -Original Message- From: VR Bass [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: AccuCraft C-16 Has anyone seen one of these in action? Are they just a Ruby with an extended boiler and an extra set of drivers, or are they closer to an Aster in Quality/Functionality? They are definitely not just a Ruby with more wheels. They're the same finescale models sold as electrics, but with a live steam running gear. I saw the prototype run at a steamup a couple of years ago, and as the current crop gets into buyers' hands the reports are coming in favorable. I just got a note from Royce Brademan (where are you, guy?), who received his last week, and he was floating on a cloud. Run time of about an hour with excellent running and pulling characteristics. I just got my Yearly Bonus, plus I have a few other dollars coming and would like a good quality Live Steamer. (Under $1.5K) I enjoy my Ruby, but I want something that will run for an extended amount of time. I don't think $1.5 will get you a C-16. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: AccuCraft C-16
I think Aster had better start keeping a very sharp eye on Accucraft. Everytime Aster announces a new engine with the prices going so high, More and more people will go Accucraft. And with reports like this, Accucraft may already be winning the war. And we are the winners! Phil.P. Reading,PA. Subject: RE: AccuCraft C-16 Okay, Vance, and list, here is my report/opinions of my new C-16: Some background: Almost year and a half a go I first talked to Charlie and Bing at Accucraft to confirm the rumors that they were indeed considering producing a live steam version of their electric #42, 2-8-0, C16 (Much snipped)
RE: AccuCraft C-16
I finally got to see one run! I was also involved in the diagnosis of why
it couldn't push itself up a grade. :]
This was a beutiful bumble-bee model and was happily prancing around the
track untill it got to the uphill part of the track. Here it continued to
prance at really close to the same speed but didn't have much forward
movement to show for it. Turned out the pilot trucks bearings were
falling out of their mountings and allowing the pilot wheel to bind up
against the truck's framework.
The engine was plenty strong though! I only saw the drivers slow down
once when the engine started to get some better tracktion on a slight
verticle kink in the track.
Looked like a manufacturing problem, but don't quote me on that. The
pilot trucks fake spring-hangers were about 2mm too narrow to hold the
bearings in the proper orientation. The bearings were designed to ride
loose in the slots, but these were falling out.
Good thing there were plenty of Asters and Ruby's to continue the runs!
;]
Oh, on another note... The valve gear would be better refered to as a
simplified Walchearts than simplifies Stephensons. It uses a pivoting
link and radius rod to adjust forward/reverse. It does apear that there
would be room for a full Stephensons gear in there though (no, I didn't
measure anything.) {:]
Trot, the fox who had a truly enjoyable day yesterday (even without my own
engine!)
/\_/\TrotFox\ Always remember,
( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ There is a
\./ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative.
Re: AccuCraft C-16
Chris: While the prototypes did utilize the same cylinders as the Ruby, Charlie told me that the production models would have a longer-bore cylinder. Since I have only seen pre-production models run, I can't verify this. Of the the three pre-production models I've seen run, none have run less than an hour per fuel/water stop, and I have seen some of them run virtually all day. Harlan Barr got the first one off the production line earlier this year and after a lot of frustration, Charlie took it back and gave him a later model, which apparently works fine. I think that the pre-production price was about $1900 and that the current prices are between $2100 and $2500, depending upon livery. \dmc At 8:36 AM -0500 6/16/01, Chris Wolcott wrote: Has anyone seen one of these in action? Are they just a Ruby with an extended boiler and an extra set of drivers, or are they closer to an Aster in Quality/Functionality? I just got my Yearly Bonus, plus I have a few other dollars coming and would like a good quality Live Steamer. (Under $1.5K) I enjoy my Ruby, but I want something that will run for an extended amount of time. -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Editor: TRELLIS TRESTLE, the newsletter of the Bay Area Garden Railway Society http://www.bagrs.org/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Webconductor: Pacific Coast Live Steamers http://p-c-l-s.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ^^^
AccuCraft C-16
Has anyone seen one of these in action? Are they just a Ruby with an extended boiler and an extra set of drivers, or are they closer to an Aster in Quality/Functionality? I just got my Yearly Bonus, plus I have a few other dollars coming and would like a good quality Live Steamer. (Under $1.5K) I enjoy my Ruby, but I want something that will run for an extended amount of time.
Re: AccuCraft C-16
Charlie and Bing ran the C-16 on my portable track at the QM last weekend, all weekend. It is a fantastic runner and a really pretty loco. As far as performance? Really quite spectacular! After the daylight ran with it's 19 cars, they hooked up the C-16 to the consist and it pulled it with ease. Not very prototypical but one heck of a performance. I would say that it performed quite flawlessly and ran for at least an hour each time. Bob
RE: AccuCraft C-16
Interesting question Chris! While I have not seen one of the C-16's in person, reports state that they are somewhere between the Ruby and say perhaps an Aster. Hard to make that comparison in my mind though, as I feel there is a great difference between Meth fired locos and gas fired ones. In the 1.5k range there are several Roundhouse engines that would fit the bill, although English in appearance. Superior quality and long run times. Geoffbuilt engines are in the 1.5k range, great engines, great run times. Cheddar has a good loco in this range too! Early reports are positive. Have heard the C's are now running in the 2.2k range by the way! Best of luck! Chuck Walters - President Central New York Large Scale Railway Society http://home.twcny.rr.com/cnylsrs Ten-foot modelers rule -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Chris Wolcott Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 9:36 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: AccuCraft C-16 Has anyone seen one of these in action? Are they just a Ruby with an extended boiler and an extra set of drivers, or are they closer to an Aster in Quality/Functionality? I just got my Yearly Bonus, plus I have a few other dollars coming and would like a good quality Live Steamer. (Under $1.5K) I enjoy my Ruby, but I want something that will run for an extended amount of time.
Re: AccuCraft C-16
Has anyone seen one of these in action? Are they just a Ruby with an extended boiler and an extra set of drivers, or are they closer to an Aster in Quality/Functionality? They are definitely not just a Ruby with more wheels. They're the same finescale models sold as electrics, but with a live steam running gear. I saw the prototype run at a steamup a couple of years ago, and as the current crop gets into buyers' hands the reports are coming in favorable. I just got a note from Royce Brademan (where are you, guy?), who received his last week, and he was floating on a cloud. Run time of about an hour with excellent running and pulling characteristics. I just got my Yearly Bonus, plus I have a few other dollars coming and would like a good quality Live Steamer. (Under $1.5K) I enjoy my Ruby, but I want something that will run for an extended amount of time. I don't think $1.5 will get you a C-16. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: AccuCraft C-16
In a message dated 6/16/01 8:18:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think $1.5 will get you a C-16 I was quoted $2.3-$2.5 with the Bumble Bee being the more costly. Personally liked the cheaper one the best. Bob
Accucraft C-16 - pictures
http://www.jps.net/groverc/llareggub/C16.html I posted this info on my site a year ago. This is the pilot model. Cheers, Grover Cleveland Managing Director and Station Porter Llareggub District Lt. Rwy www.llareggub.com "Trenau in gardd - boddlonrwydd."
Re: Accucraft C-16
--- "David M. Cole" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 1:57 PM -0700 8/21/00, Bruce Gathman wrote: Accucraft C-16 Live Steamer listed as being "now here" in three versions for $1895 - $2099. What's up?! I don't know why Charlie and Bing haven't put it up on the web site but I know that the first production run (50?) was sold out and SanVal may have a large number of 'em. \dmc It is (kinda) on their web site. It's on their on-line price sheet: http://www.accucraft.com/pg-pricelist.html No details though. It does say the availability date is October 00, and the San Val flyer says "Now Here". Does anyone have one? One on order? Paul __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
