RE: Boiler bushing bronze
I would suggest staying away from Aluminum Bronze. The aluminum bronzes require special (read expensive and hard to get) fluxes to silver braze properly. Regular fluzes do not clean properly on aluminum bronze so it's basically like soldering without flux. Not very nice. What you want is a phosphor bronze. Look at Enco or McMaster-Carr Ken Colorado USA > > What you need is a no zinc bronze. Bronze is copper alloy. Go to your > nearest machine shop and beg or buy a tiny piece of aluminum > bronze and turn > it to your needs. SAE 94 bronze is softer and good. It has lead but no > zinc. All machine shops have left overs and will give you a little piece > happily with no sweat.
Re: Re[2]: Boiler bushing bronze
Bert warned:- > These are my sentiments exactly. Turning copper is for the beginner > inviting the "ploughed field" finish if it doesnt get torn out of the > chuck to disappear with high speed past your left ear. Just as long as it's not the right of the left ear Mike (been there, done that - just once!)
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
At 11:30 PM 2/15/05 -0500, you wrote: >my opinion on using copper as bushings is based on the following: >#1 LBSC in his book about building TICH (page 156) recommends as bushing material copper with "The next best thing is bronze". Henner, That was written ca. 1951 and things have changed in 50+ years. I have a boiler from one of the most popular LBSC locos, designed ca. 1946, which uses no bushings for fittings and today of course this would never fly. >#2 The Tich boiler kit we are currently building for my friend David's >garratt was supplied by Reeves with material for copper bushings. Having been one of the worlds principle suppliers for all these years and one assumes up to date, I would be very surprised if Reeves supplied copper but they may very well have. In either case some phos bronze appears pinkish-red and very similar to copper but certainly doesn't machine like copper. You'll be able to tell the difference when you begin machining, the phos-bronze is very hard and tends to heat up quickly. Regards, Harry
Re[2]: Boiler bushing bronze
Auther These are my sentiments exactly. Turning copper is for the beginner inviting the "ploughed field" finish if it doesnt get torn out of the chuck to disappear with high speed past your left ear. Just pulling down a screw can be the last time. I'd go for the bronze. Bert - Bert & Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Here goes my 2 cent's worth about copper treaded bushings. Better if you use a no zinc bronze. Copper is too soft and its threads will tend to distort and even pull out when a male thread is screwed in it. Like you will always be able to tighten it more. Bronzes silver solders well. Copper, though soft, doesn't machine well. It's "sticky" and sort of welds to the cutting tool and this causes rough finished surfaces. Arthur--Mexico City Subject: Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Message text written by INTERNET:sslivesteam@colegroup.com > Henner is of course entitled to his opinion but cutting decent threads > in bushings, regardless of material, is not the point. A very nice thread > can be coaxed through a copper however the greatest need, and the primary > purpose in using bronze, is to retain the fullest and strongest thread for< Harry, my opinion on using copper as bushings is based on the following: #1 LBSC in his book about building TICH (page 156) recommends as bushing material copper with "The next best thing is bronze". #2 The Tich boiler kit we are currently building for my friend David's garratt was supplied by Reeves with material for copper bushings. #3 The draft of the Australian live steamers on medium pressure "gauge 1" boilers allows copper bushings. The link to this draft was somewhere in the thread about boilers in mylargescale. Unfortunately I downloaded the draft, but can't find the link any more #4 We built a small vertical boiler a couple of years ago with copper bushings. The bushing for the safety valve doubles up as filler valve and is removed for every filling/topping up. The thread is M6 x 0.75, finer than 1/4" 28TPI. As of today not a trace of wear is visible. #5 With copper as bushing, the choice of material for the fittings is wider, as bronze can be used (unless the bronze for bushing/fitting is of a different grade) #6 I agree with Vance, that tapping directly into a backplate is not to be recommended. My point was/is that at least for gauge "1" boilers copper bushings are as safe as bronze bushings, in case copper rod is more easily available. For larger boilers I would probably switch to bronze for the reasons you indicated. Regards Henner
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Jim, What you need is a no zinc bronze. Bronze is copper alloy. Go to your nearest machine shop and beg or buy a tiny piece of aluminum bronze and turn it to your needs. SAE 94 bronze is softer and good. It has lead but no zinc. All machine shops have left overs and will give you a little piece happily with no sweat. Arthur--Mexico City Subject: Boiler bushing bronze What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings>
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Hi Jim. Basically, any of the continuous cast bronze bars usually available from bearing suppliers at a reasonable cost. Here they sell it in 1 foot long sticks. Some in larger sizes from 7/8" diameter is available hollow cast, which if you are making things with large holes through them (eg Gauge 1 cylinders) is cheaper.You need a cast material - stay away from sintered ones. Probably a leaded bronze would be easier to work. LG1 is often used also. Jim Gregg W.Australia. At 06:57 PM 2/13/2005 -0800, you wrote: Hello all What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Jim: You will find 660 bronze in the Enco catalog (and others) in different sizes. A solid 1 inch diameter rod of 660 bronze 13 inches long is on sale this month in the Enco catalog for US$10.29 plus shipping. Sizes range from 1/2 inch to 3 1/2 inches, all 13 inches long. Cheers Clark Clark B Lord - Las Vegas, Nevada USA Las Vegas Live Steamers - Gauge 1 live steam Treasurer, Las Vegas Garden Railway Society Member, Steam Events LLC Harry Wade wrote: At 06:57 PM 2/13/05 -0800, you wrote: What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn Jim, The preferred material is phosphor bronze, and while there are a number of "phosphor" bronzes one of the most commonly stocked ones has an alloy designation of C-510. A workable alternative is 660 bronze which is a continuous cast bearing bronze usually sold in 13" sticks at any good bearing supply house or industrial supply. Even though it has a very small % of lead I use it for larger (5/8"+OD) bushings and it works just fine. Henner is of course entitled to his opinion but cutting decent threads in bushings, regardless of material, is not the point. A very nice thread can be coaxed through a copper however the greatest need, and the primary purpose in using bronze, is to retain the fullest and strongest thread form possible for as long as possible. Fine threads in a malleable material such as copper are easily damaged or stretched . . . in other words they "deteriorate" much faster. The reason that phosphor bronze is preferred is that it cuts and holds threads like mild steel yet is completely compatible with copper and silver solders as easily as copper. Regards, Harry
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Henner notes that you don't necessarily need bronze bushings, since copper can now be tapped with modern cutting fluids. Please, don't take this to mean that you don't need bushings, only that they don't have to be bronze. There was a long discussion recently on the G1MRA list about boilers -- including some from well-known Japanese loco builders -- with appliances threaded directly into the backhead plate, without bushings. I'll spare you the details, but will summarize the thread thus: yes, it can be done. No, it's not a good idea. The original post was looking for a source for bronze bushings. I'm not sure where you'll find copper for bushings, either. Do not use brass under any circumstances, as it will deteriorate in a matter of a few years and become unsuitable for holding pressure. You can buy bronze rod from McMaster-Carr's web site. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
At 06:57 PM 2/13/05 -0800, you wrote: >What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks >Jim O'Hearn Jim, The preferred material is phosphor bronze, and while there are a number of "phosphor" bronzes one of the most commonly stocked ones has an alloy designation of C-510. A workable alternative is 660 bronze which is a continuous cast bearing bronze usually sold in 13" sticks at any good bearing supply house or industrial supply. Even though it has a very small % of lead I use it for larger (5/8"+OD) bushings and it works just fine. Henner is of course entitled to his opinion but cutting decent threads in bushings, regardless of material, is not the point. A very nice thread can be coaxed through a copper however the greatest need, and the primary purpose in using bronze, is to retain the fullest and strongest thread form possible for as long as possible. Fine threads in a malleable material such as copper are easily damaged or stretched . . . in other words they "deteriorate" much faster. The reason that phosphor bronze is preferred is that it cuts and holds threads like mild steel yet is completely compatible with copper and silver solders as easily as copper. Regards, Harry
Boiler bushing bronze
Message text written by INTERNET:sslivesteam@colegroup.com >Hello all What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn < Jim, I bought alloy 316 from McMaster-Carr, but never used it for bushings. The main reason for using bronze has been, that cutting threads in copper was difficult. However, with modern tapping fluids like "Rapid Tap" you get beautiful threads even in copper. So at least in my opinion no need for bronze bushings... Regards Henner
Boiler bushing bronze
Hello all What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn
