Re: Cement fastening ...

[Charles Brumbelow]

If you are working with a finished wall, be sure that whatever you are using
goes past the finish and into the structure.  In my at-work office, a
bookcase was mounted onto a finished block wall with the expanding lead
anchors -- but they were only into the stucco/morter finish coat and not the
blocks themselves.  It stayed for years, then let go with a bang -- landing
on my chair.  Fortunately, this happened before I arrived.  Charles

From: "Geoff Spenceley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I had a whole wall of shelves come down on me with the self tapping anchor
> >screws. The hole gets enlarged as the drill point wears, and in old
concrete
> >the holes are crumbling on the surfaces.
> >Best anchor is lag bolts and expansion shield inserts. The expansion
shields
> >are about 3/4" long. I have a 3/8" combination hammer drill/drill that
works
> >OK. If you can though, borrow or rent a Hilty . They put holes in old
> >concrete like going through butter.

 

RE: Cement fastening ...

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Harley, By jove , I think you've got it!

Geoff.

I had a whole wall of shelves come down on me with the self tapping anchor
>screws. The hole gets enlarged as the drill point wears, and in old concrete
>the holes are crumbling on the surfaces.
>Best anchor is lag bolts and expansion shield inserts. The expansion shields
>are about 3/4" long. I have a 3/8" combination hammer drill/drill that works
>OK. If you can though, borrow or rent a Hilty . They put holes in old
>concrete like going through butter.
>Harley
>


 

RE: Cement fastening ...

[hkelsey]

I had a whole wall of shelves come down on me with the self tapping anchor
screws. The hole gets enlarged as the drill point wears, and in old concrete
the holes are crumbling on the surfaces.
Best anchor is lag bolts and expansion shield inserts. The expansion shields
are about 3/4" long. I have a 3/8" combination hammer drill/drill that works
OK. If you can though, borrow or rent a Hilty . They put holes in old
concrete like going through butter.
Harley
 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[Walter Gray]

Ferdinand Mels wrote:

>
> My 2 cents worth US. ( several hundred Canadian )

Actually, about 3.5 cents CDN, Ferdinand! (:-)))


Cheers,
Walt
 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[Ferdinand Mels]

The Blue screws are really great for  floors where the wieght is minimal.
I have if you have a clean hole put them into walls and you would have a hard time
getting them out. Last summer I put stairs to water behind the house. Our waterfront is
300 feet of 18-20 foot limestone cliffs. I needed a high stregnth lag set up - so I 
rented
a 3/4" Hammer drill at Home Depot. Cut through the Limestone like butter. It was
so much fun I've got about 15 extra holes. They happened to be the same size as wine 
bottle
holes so I've put corks in them to keep the dirt out untill the hole is needed.
Anyhow to get to the point I used Lead Plugs  and Deck Bolts. After a long hard
cold winter there is no way the bolts are coming out unless you use a ratchet. Even a
sledge hammer only breaks off the bolt.  Soo if you need stregnth I'd use the lead 
plugs.
Epoxy is great - over the long haul metal is more stable. I make a lot of metal 
soldiers and
the weakest point is always the epoxy joints.
My 2 cents worth US. ( several hundred Canadian )
cheers and may you  have a steam filled weekend
Ferdinand
 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[M. Paterson]

You did not define what you are trying to attach, if
the stress level, torque or shear is moderate then I
recommend that you consider one of the two part
epoxy's that are available at OSH or Home Depot.  I
have used them in the past and have not had any
problems however I am not trying to support 300# on a
single point either.  If you are set on using screws
for attachment then use a hammer drill if at all
possible.  With either a rotary drill or a hammer
drill use the "best" carbide drills you can locate and
work slowly don't try to force the drilling process. 
Also the bits can be sharpened so don't discard them
out of hand.
mp

--- Dave Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gang:
> 
> Somewhere along the line in my basic set of handyman
> techniques, I 
> never got the memo on how to fasten things to cement
> or masonry.
> 
> I have a couple of projects pending, both of which
> need to somehow 
> attach things either to a cement wall or to a cement
> patio.
> 
> A couple of weekends back I had a similar project
> and went out and 
> bought a masonry drill bit, which I put into my
> trusty 3/8-inch 
> electric hand drill, and a handful of self-tapping
> masonry screws. 
> The first couple of holes went fine and the screws
> seemed to work OK, 
> but by the third hole the bit was obviously becoming
> dull and by the 
> fifth hole, that bit was done.
> 
> I'm assuming that the rest of the world doesn't need
> a new bit every 
> fifth hole, so obviously I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> Advice?
> 
> \dmc
> 
> -- 
>
^^^
> Dave Cole
> Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam
> Excursion Co.
>Pacifica, Calif. USA
>  
> List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale
> live steamers
>
> Editor:   TRELLIS & TRESTLE, the newsletter of
> the
>Bay Area Garden Railway Society
> 
>
> Webconductor: Pacific Coast Live Steamers
> 
>
>
^^^



__
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Masonry Drills : was: Cement Fastening

[Don Baker]

It seems that all electric hand-drills now come with at least Hammer, Reverse, and 
stepped Variable
speed - even the "budget specials".

Sometimes overlooked is that, if you use tungsten carbide tipped lathe tools, you have 
a green wheel for
sharpening them. Giving TC masonry bits the once-over - [offhand is fine here] on this 
wheel brings them
back to better than new. I've also done this many times for non-livesteam friends who 
normally throw them
away when blunt.
Don Baker
 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[Jim Curry]

Hammer drill and impact drill are one in the same, different nomenclature.
If this is a one shot deal rent one, any one.  If you're a tool hound, like
some guys :>), hustle down to Home Depot and peruse their hammer drill
selection and bring home another important guy tool.

Jim
 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[David M. Cole]

At 11:17 AM -0400 6/22/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>If it is a carbide tipped bit, the quality is proportional to the price. If
>you are using Tapcon screws, use their bit.

Ah yes ... I did use the blue Tapcon masonry screws and while I 
purchased a bit that was "designed for use with Tapcon masonry 
screws," I did not actually purchase a Tapcon bit.

At 11:17 AM -0400 6/22/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>PS A friend of mine that has a cast cement business uses a glue that works
>great. I put a circular retaining wall around a ligustrum "tree" and 
>did not use any mortar.
>
>The "caulk/glue" is still holding. However, there is no freezing here to
>speak of.

In Pacifica, Calif., the median temperature is 55 degrees; I've lived 
in the Bay Area my entire life and I can probably count the number of 
days the temperature has dropped below freezing in the last 47 years 
on both hands (well, I might need a toe or two).

At 10:25 AM -0400 6/22/01, Jim Curry wrote:

>Most times those type of drills work better in an impact type pistol drill.

and

At 11:18 AM -0400 6/22/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I also do not depend on this type of set up to hold much weight.  I still am
>of old school and prefer the lag and lead sheild method for any kind of
>support.  You can also get much better quality masonary bits with this type
>of set up.  If you have a lot of holes to drill, you might consider renting a
>hammer drill and get the appropriate hammer bit; it will save you a lot of
>grief.

I assume a "hammer drill" and an "impact-type pistol drill" are the 
same thing? Any positive experiences with specific products that 
anyone would like to share?

\dmc
-- 
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
David M. Cole[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Editor & Publisher: The Cole Papers; NEWSINC.V: (650) 557-9595
Consultant: The Cole Group   F: (650) 557-9696
http://colegroup.com/P.O. Box 719, Pacifica, CA 94044-0719
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[WaltSwartz]

If you have never used "TAPCON" brand masonry screws, try some. They are 
great but using the proper size drill is essential.
Walt 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[Cgnr]

Ok here comes the resident handyman on this list.  I assume you mean those 
blue concrete screws that are out now.  Well, the drill bits that they sell 
for those, although a bit pricy, aren't worth a damn!  I have had them bend, 
break, and dull more times than I care to mention.  The best that I can offer 
is that you cannot apply too much pressure to these bits.
I also do not depend on this type of set up to hold much weight.  I still am 
of old school and prefer the lag and lead sheild method for any kind of 
support.  You can also get much better quality masonary bits with this type 
of set up.  If you have a lot of holes to drill, you might consider renting a 
hammer drill and get the appropriate hammer bit; it will save you a lot of 
grief.
Bob 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[WaltSwartz]

Dave,
If it is a carbide tipped bit, the quality is proportional to the price. If 
you are using Tapcon screws, use their bit. My neighbor & I put up hurricane 
shutter frames on both houses and used only one tapcon bit. It helps if you 
have a hammer drill, the carbide does not get as hot and the drilling goes 
much faster.
Keep your steam up!
Walt & Lunk
PS A friend of mine that has a cast cement business uses a glue that works 
great.
I put a circular retaining wall around a ligustrum "tree" and did not use any 
mortar.
The "caulk/glue" is still holding. However, there is no freezing here to 
speak of. 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[Jim Curry]

Dave:

Most times those type of drills work better in an impact type pistol drill.

Jim
 

Re: OT: Cement fastening ...

[Royce Woodbury]

Dave Cole wrote:

>  and a handful of self-tapping masonry screws.
> The first couple of holes went fine and the screws seemed to work OK,
> but by the third hole the bit was obviously becoming dull and by the
> fifth hole, that bit was done.
>

I don't think that masonry bits can drill a hole of consistent size well enough
for "self tapping" threads.  Might be better to try epoxying in whatever
fastener you want to connect to.

royce
 

OT: Cement fastening ...

[Dave Cole]

Gang:

Somewhere along the line in my basic set of handyman techniques, I 
never got the memo on how to fasten things to cement or masonry.

I have a couple of projects pending, both of which need to somehow 
attach things either to a cement wall or to a cement patio.

A couple of weekends back I had a similar project and went out and 
bought a masonry drill bit, which I put into my trusty 3/8-inch 
electric hand drill, and a handful of self-tapping masonry screws. 
The first couple of holes went fine and the screws seemed to work OK, 
but by the third hole the bit was obviously becoming dull and by the 
fifth hole, that bit was done.

I'm assuming that the rest of the world doesn't need a new bit every 
fifth hole, so obviously I'm doing something wrong.

Advice?

\dmc

-- 
^^^
Dave Cole
Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
   Pacifica, Calif. USA  
List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
   
Editor:   TRELLIS & TRESTLE, the newsletter of the
   Bay Area Garden Railway Society 
   
Webconductor: Pacific Coast Live Steamers 
   
^^^