Re: Sectional Track - Part 2
Thanks to all for the replies regarding Koppel and Jubilee track. I've found some interesting historical info about small gauge mine railway equipment through the Gn15 website, including a bibliography that mentions an Orenstein Koppel catalog. OK has a website in English, too, but the logo has been modernized. I'll keep an eye out for the OK inside a lazy diamond logo. I'm sure that I've seen it before. Now I'm wondering if Hudson's Jubilee track dates from around 1887, the year of the Queen's Jubilee. (I need to do less musing about history and get back to work making coal-fired boiler fittings. I am making progress, you know.) Steve
Re: Sectional Track - Part 2
Hi Steve. Koppel, or Orenstein Koppel were well known German loco builders. They built hundreds, possibly thousands of locos. They were builders of many of the German army Feldbahn military railway locos used from the 1880s through to after WW1.They bult many industrial steamers and I think diesels. I think Jubillee track was made in England by either Hudson or Bagnall Jim Gregg. At 07:54 PM 10/4/04 -0700, you wrote: Some weeks back I posted a photo link about sectional track in use at a coal fueling depot in 1918 Tahiti. Susan P. thought it might be WWI surplus Jubilee track. I just received the latest Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette issue and in Bob Brown's column he has photos of a Koppel Portable Track and Car System brochure that features a similar looking track system. Only brochure pages 18 and 19 are shown, and the footer on page 19 states The Modern Way of Road Building. Page 18 has two photos of two men carrying and positioning a standard 15-foot section of 24 track. I wonder how much it weighed? Page 18 also claims that Koppel Portable Track has been in constant use all over the world for the past forty-five years. No date on the brochure but from the layout and photos I'd say early 1920's. Does anyone have any additional info about Koppel? If it was a German company could Jubilee track been a patriotically-named euphemism for the same product for use on the Western front? Steve
Re[2]: Sectional Track - Part 2
further to the above theme. Orenstein Koppel are still in existence in Germany and manufacture machinery for civil engineering mainly. I am sure that they would supply any information on their history and present products. Their trade mark is the O K inside a horizontal diamond. You will have probably seen it somewhere as there products are distributed world wide. Perhaps their web site can help (not known to me at the minute) I would be surprised if no one has written a book about them. Lots of their NG engines served in sugar plantations, mines etc and many small industrial railroads (rubber) in the far east. There is certainly more info available in the German language - unfortunately. Regards Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sectional Track - Part 2
At 07:54 PM 10/4/04 -0700, Steve Shyvers wrote: Does anyone have any additional info about Koppel? If it was a German company could Jubilee track been a patriotically-named euphemism for the same product for use on the Western front? Prefab sectional narrow gauge track was originally developed by Paul Decauville, who installed it on his farm in 1875. He 'sold' the idea of it (along with Prosper Pechot) to the French artillery. Decauville went into mass production of the track in the early 1880s. The idea was adopted by other industrial railway mail order firms - principally OK in Germany and Hudson in the UK, but there were many, many more. The term 'Jubillee' track is one taken from the Hudson catalogue and adopted by the Brit War Department in WWI when referring to prefab track. Each manufacturer had it's own patented component to make it different from its competitors, like means of securing rails to ties or join track panel to track panel (rail joiners). If you are interested in further info I can scan and send you material from the Hudson catalogue. regards, pf
Sectional Track - Part 2
Some weeks back I posted a photo link about sectional track in use at a coal fueling depot in 1918 Tahiti. Susan P. thought it might be WWI surplus Jubilee track. I just received the latest Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette issue and in Bob Brown's column he has photos of a Koppel Portable Track and Car System brochure that features a similar looking track system. Only brochure pages 18 and 19 are shown, and the footer on page 19 states The Modern Way of Road Building. Page 18 has two photos of two men carrying and positioning a standard 15-foot section of 24 track. I wonder how much it weighed? Page 18 also claims that Koppel Portable Track has been in constant use all over the world for the past forty-five years. No date on the brochure but from the layout and photos I'd say early 1920's. Does anyone have any additional info about Koppel? If it was a German company could Jubilee track been a patriotically-named euphemism for the same product for use on the Western front? Steve
sectional track.
Until the change over to mechanical harvesting of sugar cane in the 70,s protable track was everywhere on the queensland sugar trams..whole stick wagons where pushed out into the fields next to the cutters on the sectional rails[ giant hornby set] and when the field was cut out. they just picked it up and moved to the next field. Now the sugar is mechnical harvest into truck bins, and tipped into bulk wagons at transfer sidings..the main haulage can be 1000 tons with mid train slaves!r/c controlled [ bogies diesels], concrete ties and heavy rail.. and all on 2 foot gauge! queensland has around 2000km of 2 ft gauge still in use for sugar trams.. Gordon Watson.
Re: Sectional Track
The two-foot gauge railroad used to harvest sugar cane on the Grove Farm Plantation on the Hawaiian island of Kauai also used sectional track, moved from field to field as different parts of the plantation were harvested. Grove Farm still maintains some of their steam locos (both US and European-built) in running condition, although they only have a few hundred feet of track remaining. Steve Shyvers wrote: Surprised to find a great photo of sectional railroad track, including a stack of 4 curved sections. The gauge appears to be 24 inches (or maybe it's 60 cm). The location is a steamship coaling depot in Papeete, Tahiti about 1918. Here's a link to the photo that I posted over at mylargescale.com: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers\Track Photos\Papeete Coal.jpg The photo shows sections of track and four modular switches that fan out to a 10-foot high or so coal heap. If ever you needed to see a prototype for tinplate sectional track this is it. In fact the track is contemporaneous with tinplate. An interesting detail is that the switch points are articulated and are not stub-style. These were high tech switches. Apparently the track was used to transfer the coal to a pier next to a docked ship, or maybe to a lighter. It looks like the coal was hand-shoveled into wicker baskets about 24 tall. Four of these baskets were placed on a tiny 4-wheel flat car. Because there is no evidence of power equipment for handling the coal I will assume that the flat cars were moved by hand. The photo is in Captain L.R.W. Beavis' wonderful autobiography 'Passage: From Sail to Steam'. The book is full of superb photos of sailing ships, many of which were taken by Captain Beavis. He may have taken the photo in Papeete. All the photos are from his private collection. Steve
RE: Sectional Track
I have also seen this in standard Gauge when the Norfolk Southern was preparing to replace the track at a local grade crossing. There were sections on rail spiked to ties, ready to be put into place stacked in the right of way. Unfortunately I didn't have a camera, and they replaced all three crossings in one work day, so I missed the installation too! Terry Griner Columbus Ohio USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Sectional Track The two-foot gauge railroad used to harvest sugar cane on the Grove Farm Plantation on the Hawaiian island of Kauai also used sectional track, moved from field to field as different parts of the plantation were harvested. Grove Farm still maintains some of their steam locos (both US and European-built) in running condition, although they only have a few hundred feet of track remaining. Steve Shyvers wrote: Surprised to find a great photo of sectional railroad track, including a stack of 4 curved sections. The gauge appears to be 24 inches (or maybe it's 60 cm). The location is a steamship coaling depot in Papeete, Tahiti about 1918. Here's a link to the photo that I posted over at mylargescale.com: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers\Track Photos\Papeete Coal.jpg The photo shows sections of track and four modular switches that fan out to a 10-foot high or so coal heap. If ever you needed to see a prototype for tinplate sectional track this is it. In fact the track is contemporaneous with tinplate. An interesting detail is that the switch points are articulated and are not stub-style. These were high tech switches. Apparently the track was used to transfer the coal to a pier next to a docked ship, or maybe to a lighter. It looks like the coal was hand-shoveled into wicker baskets about 24 tall. Four of these baskets were placed on a tiny 4-wheel flat car. Because there is no evidence of power equipment for handling the coal I will assume that the flat cars were moved by hand. The photo is in Captain L.R.W. Beavis' wonderful autobiography 'Passage: From Sail to Steam'. The book is full of superb photos of sailing ships, many of which were taken by Captain Beavis. He may have taken the photo in Papeete. All the photos are from his private collection. Steve This e-mail is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain privileged, sensitive, or protected health information. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender via telephone or return e-mail and immediately delete this e-mail.
Re: Sectional Track
Hi Steve, I believe that this may well be ex. War Department Jubilee track as used for the trench railways in Northern France in the latter part of the First World War. Surprised to find a great photo of sectional railroad track, including a stack of 4 curved sections. The gauge appears to be 24 inches (or maybe it's 60 cm). The location is a steamship coaling depot in Papeete, Tahiti about 1918. Here's a link to the photo that I posted over at mylargescale.com: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers\Track Photos\Papeete Coal.jpg I had to add a %20 to the above i.e. ...\Track%20Photos\... to get the link to work. The photo shows sections of track and four modular switches that fan out to a 10-foot high or so coal heap. If ever you needed to see a prototype for tinplate sectional track this is it. In fact the track is contemporaneous with tinplate. An interesting detail is that the switch points are articulated and are not stub-style. These were high tech switches. Jubilee track was designed to be carried and laid by hand. Apparently the track was used to transfer the coal to a pier next to a docked ship, or maybe to a lighter. It looks like the coal was hand-shoveled into wicker baskets about 24 tall. Four of these baskets were placed on a tiny 4-wheel flat car. Because there is no evidence of power equipment for handling the coal I will assume that the flat cars were moved by hand. In France they used to run stonking big Alco and Baldwin 2-6-2 and 4-6-0 locomotives on this stuff! http://www.narrow-gauge-pleasure.co.uk/aboutngr.html and this site has some pics of an Alco 2-6-2 in War Department colours: http://home.iae.nl/users/summer/16mmngm/Pics_htms/FRoissyDompierre.htm ... and yes, I have copies of both the Baldwin 2-6-2 and 2-4-0 locomotive erection drawings. These are inside frame locomotives, whilst the Alco 2-6-2 (as per Ffestiniog Railway's Mountaineer) is an outside frame loco. http://www.festrail.co.uk/the_alco_in_war_dept__grey_livery.htm When I have time I hope to build one - although perhaps not for 60cm gauge! Best wishes, Susan.
Re: Sectional Track
Up until the time that there were no more cypress and pine trees left in the everglades, virtually all logging used sectional track. If you look at old aerial photographs of the everglades, you see what would look like bird feathers in the swamp. A branch line like the quill of the feather) was laid through the center of a stand of trees. Radials would be laid out from each side (of the quill) so that the trees could be cut and then drug to the just laid lines to be loaded on flats. Once those trees were cut and loaded, the track sections were picked up and loaded on flats and the next line would be laid and the timber cut. For the most part, the cranes were rather rickety home built jobbers working on wood fired boilers. They were usually not self propelled, but were shunted in and out with 2-6-2 Prairie locomotives. I happened to acquire the bell from one of those Prairie log loco's - it's one of three bells and close to 27 whistles I've managed to acquire. Keep your steam up! Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate Walt
Re: Sectional Track
Hi Susan, Thank you for the links, the info on Jubilee track, and the tip about %20. It has been stated that the WWI battles that concluded with the battle for the Marne were the last warfare based on infantry maneuver. Trench warfare followed, supported by trains and portable track. One can imagine the arguments that raged between infantry and engineering over when, where, and how trench lines could be advanced or extended. Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Steve, I believe that this may well be ex. War Department Jubilee track as used for the trench railways in Northern France in the latter part of the First World War. Surprised to find a great photo of sectional railroad track, including a stack of 4 curved sections. The gauge appears to be 24 inches (or maybe it's 60 cm). The location is a steamship coaling depot in Papeete, Tahiti about 1918. Here's a link to the photo that I posted over at mylargescale.com: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers\Track Photos\Papeete Coal.jpg I had to add a %20 to the above i.e. ...\Track%20Photos\... to get the link to work. The photo shows sections of track and four modular switches that fan out to a 10-foot high or so coal heap. If ever you needed to see a prototype for tinplate sectional track this is it. In fact the track is contemporaneous with tinplate. An interesting detail is that the switch points are articulated and are not stub-style. These were high tech switches. Jubilee track was designed to be carried and laid by hand. Apparently the track was used to transfer the coal to a pier next to a docked ship, or maybe to a lighter. It looks like the coal was hand-shoveled into wicker baskets about 24 tall. Four of these baskets were placed on a tiny 4-wheel flat car. Because there is no evidence of power equipment for handling the coal I will assume that the flat cars were moved by hand. In France they used to run stonking big Alco and Baldwin 2-6-2 and 4-6-0 locomotives on this stuff! http://www.narrow-gauge-pleasure.co.uk/aboutngr.html and this site has some pics of an Alco 2-6-2 in War Department colours: http://home.iae.nl/users/summer/16mmngm/Pics_htms/FRoissyDompierre.htm ... and yes, I have copies of both the Baldwin 2-6-2 and 2-4-0 locomotive erection drawings. These are inside frame locomotives, whilst the Alco 2-6-2 (as per Ffestiniog Railway's Mountaineer) is an outside frame loco. http://www.festrail.co.uk/the_alco_in_war_dept__grey_livery.htm When I have time I hope to build one - although perhaps not for 60cm gauge! Best wishes, Susan.
Sectional Track
Surprised to find a great photo of sectional railroad track, including a stack of 4 curved sections. The gauge appears to be 24 inches (or maybe it's 60 cm). The location is a steamship coaling depot in Papeete, Tahiti about 1918. Here's a link to the photo that I posted over at mylargescale.com: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers\Track Photos\Papeete Coal.jpg The photo shows sections of track and four modular switches that fan out to a 10-foot high or so coal heap. If ever you needed to see a prototype for tinplate sectional track this is it. In fact the track is contemporaneous with tinplate. An interesting detail is that the switch points are articulated and are not stub-style. These were high tech switches. Apparently the track was used to transfer the coal to a pier next to a docked ship, or maybe to a lighter. It looks like the coal was hand-shoveled into wicker baskets about 24 tall. Four of these baskets were placed on a tiny 4-wheel flat car. Because there is no evidence of power equipment for handling the coal I will assume that the flat cars were moved by hand. The photo is in Captain L.R.W. Beavis' wonderful autobiography 'Passage: From Sail to Steam'. The book is full of superb photos of sailing ships, many of which were taken by Captain Beavis. He may have taken the photo in Papeete. All the photos are from his private collection. Steve
