Re: Was Re: Tender Hand Pump--Now: Project Loco

[SALTYCRABB]

BTW, for any concerned -- I've had had the privilege of seeing this new 
creation run.  Ah, what can I say -- 'tis a beauty!

Furthermore, you'll should persuade Carl to come to the summer steamup -- he 
has been promising for five years..

Jim Crabb
Seabrook TX 

Was Re: Tender Hand Pump--Now: Project Loco

[Carl H. Malone]

Terry and Steve,

Thanks for the kind words on my project. The sump has an opening that exits
under the locomotive and is piped towards the rear. It works well and makes
a nice bit of steam coming from under the loco.
http://web2.airmail.net/cmalone/project/sump.gif

The engine is a Cheddar single ossilator. The boiler and ceramic burner are
both scratch built. The boiler has a goodall valve, roundhouse regulator,
safety valve, sight glass with blowdown valve and an extra bushing. This
will soon be fitted with a Renger pump in a trailing car...will post photos
as soon as its done.

Cheers,

Carl





>Please tell me: how do you drain the sump?
>Steve

>  I was wondering;
>Is that the 'heritage' engine from Midwest?
>Are you using a ceramic burner, and did you build it or is the burner a
commercial
>unit?
>Terry Griner


 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Cgnr]

That is the answer from my customer who is has BMW mechanics shop.  If Arthur 
or any body else know the answer I can get the cost; most likely wholesale.


Bob Starr
http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/";>ART IN GARDEN RAILROADING-THE 
CGNR
http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/ 

Re: Goodall valves (was: Re: Tender Hand Pump)

[VR Bass]

On 14 Jun 2002 at 12:37, steve boylan wrote:
> Okay, I can't stand it anymore:  can someone please point me to sufficient
> information about how a Goodall valve works so that I can understand why
> they're so all-fired wonderful?  A well-done working drawing would be
> particularly helpful!

Here's one: 

regards,
  -vance-

Vance Bass
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
 

Goodall valves (was: Re: Tender Hand Pump)

[steve boylan]

Okay, I can't stand it anymore:  can someone please point me to sufficient
information about how a Goodall valve works so that I can understand why
they're so all-fired wonderful?  A well-done working drawing would be
particularly helpful!

- - Steve


 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Phil. Paskos]

How small? Do you have dimensions for it?
Phil



> Robb,
>
> The new 2002 Mercedez Bends 750 V12 has a very small stainless steel (no
> rust) return fuel pump on its fuel injector system that is ideal for water
> pump use for filling a boiler.  It can operate with up to a 70 psi head
and
> all it takes is a little 9V battery to make it run.  The battery can run
it
> for about 60 minutes continuously before it begins to slow down.  That a
lot
> of boiler fillings for a $1.50 battery cost.  The pump requires two 4 mm
> screws to fasten it.  It takes about 1 minute to fill a #268 boiler.  It
> needs a 5 mm hose to connect it.   This pump might be your solution.
>
> Arthur, Mexico City
>

> _
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gary Broeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Tender Hand Pump
>
>
> > Robb,
> >
> > You could make one that pumps up and down. I recall seeing one in a past
> > issue of Garden Rail. I have locos with cross wise and front to back,
they
> > both work fine. Forward to back is nice if you are between 2 rows of
> > locos/trains.
> >
> > GaryB
> >
> >
>
>

 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Royce Woodbury]

"Arthur S. Cohen" wrote:

> Robb,
>
> The new 2002 Mercedez Bends 750 V12 has a very small stainless steel (no
> rust) return fuel pump on its fuel injector system that is ideal for water
> pump use for filling a boiler.

But will my new 750 run/handle well without the return fuel pump ?

royce in SB
 

Was Re: Tender Hand Pump--Now: Project Loco

[Terry Griner]

Carl,
  Beautiful job on the Project Loco! 
  I was wondering;
Is that the 'heritage' engine from Midwest? 
Are you using a ceramic burner, and did you build it or is the burner a commercial 
unit?
Also did you use the 'Steam in the Garden' articles for the alterations to the boiler?

Thanks 
Terry Griner
Columbus Ohio USA
Working on a Coal fired Project 'Critter'
 

RE: Tender Hand Pump

[Shyvers, Steve]

Carl,

Beautiful job on your project loco! Thanks for sharing.

Please tell me: how do you drain the sump?

Steve
 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Carl H. Malone]

I made a Goodall valve that takes the place of a clack valveworks great!
http://web2.airmail.net/cmalone/good.jpg

I'm installing it in a trailing boxcar for my project loco
 http://web2.airmail.net/cmalone/project/project.htm ) and am going to use a
Renger electric pump wired with an on/off switch.
I'll put up a pix of the trailing car when this is finished. The idea was to
make it attachable to any locomotive with the fittings when I want to extend
run time. If I have room, I also plan to add a bigger auxillary butane tank
to supply liquid butane to the main tank on the loco.

Carl

Algerita Botanical Railway


>
> Of course, you could combine the two - use the Goodall valve as the
> inlet for the pump, instead of a traditional check valve. Hmm - didn't
> think of that until just now. Next loco, now that I've got two surplus
> pumps.
> Has any one experimented with a tender pump into a Goodall valve?


> I have a Regner R/C electric pump in my 268 and it works great! It pumps
540
> ml/ ,plugs into the receiver and runs off of the receivers battery. Regner
> has a lot of parts that I think people are looking for so here's the link.
> http://www.mbv-schug.de/english-version/Products/Regner/regner.htm


 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[WaltSwartz]

Arthur,
Does the pump cost as much as the locomotive?
Keep your steam up!
Walt 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[VR Bass]

Arthur, that's a very interesting discovery!  You mentioned battery cost, but 
not the first cost of the pump.  I'm suspicious, since German car parts tend to 
be quite expensive, but the Aster hand pump is about $100 so it could also be a 
good bargain by comparison.  What's the cost?

regards,
  -vance-

Vance Bass
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

Hi Arthur.

$!.50 sounds fine for the baffery, but what does the fuel pump 
cost?  Judging from prices for parts for high end cars here, it will 
probably cost more than the value of the whole loco!   They wantedabout 
$700 for a Volvo fuel pump (NOT the injection pump) and $250 for the fuel 
pump contro relay (Bosch) - I replaced that with a standard delay relay 
that cost $9.50 from an electronics place.

Jim Gregg.
At 04:18 PM 6/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Robb,
>
>The new 2002 Mercedez Bends 750 V12 has a very small stainless steel (no
>rust) return fuel pump on its fuel injector system that is ideal for water
>pump use for filling a boiler.  It can operate with up to a 70 psi head and
>all it takes is a little 9V battery to make it run.  The battery can run it
>for about 60 minutes continuously before it begins to slow down.  That a lot
>of boiler fillings for a $1.50 battery cost.  The pump requires two 4 mm
>screws to fasten it.  It takes about 1 minute to fill a #268 boiler.  It
>needs a 5 mm hose to connect it.   This pump might be your solution.
>
>Arthur, Mexico City
>
>_
>- Original Message -
>From: "Gary Broeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:12 AM
>Subject: Re: Tender Hand Pump
>
>
> > Robb,
> >
> > You could make one that pumps up and down. I recall seeing one in a past
> > issue of Garden Rail. I have locos with cross wise and front to back, they
> > both work fine. Forward to back is nice if you are between 2 rows of
> > locos/trains.
> >
> > GaryB
> >
> >
>
>
 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[CRS]

I have a Regner R/C electric pump in my 268 and it works great! It pumps 540
ml/ ,plugs into the receiver and runs off of the receivers battery. Regner
has a lot of parts that I think people are looking for so here's the link.
http://www.mbv-schug.de/english-version/Products/Regner/regner.htm
 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Arthur S. Cohen]

Robb,

The new 2002 Mercedez Bends 750 V12 has a very small stainless steel (no
rust) return fuel pump on its fuel injector system that is ideal for water
pump use for filling a boiler.  It can operate with up to a 70 psi head and
all it takes is a little 9V battery to make it run.  The battery can run it
for about 60 minutes continuously before it begins to slow down.  That a lot
of boiler fillings for a $1.50 battery cost.  The pump requires two 4 mm
screws to fasten it.  It takes about 1 minute to fill a #268 boiler.  It
needs a 5 mm hose to connect it.   This pump might be your solution.

Arthur, Mexico City

_
- Original Message -
From: "Gary Broeder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: Tender Hand Pump


> Robb,
>
> You could make one that pumps up and down. I recall seeing one in a past
> issue of Garden Rail. I have locos with cross wise and front to back, they
> both work fine. Forward to back is nice if you are between 2 rows of
> locos/trains.
>
> GaryB
>
>

 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Z.R. Struzik]

> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:10:46 -0400
> From: "robbandcheryl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Has any one experimented with a tender pump into a Goodall valve?
> 
> I have been thinking about that my self.  
> 

The same thougth that I had! I wondered if I could feed my Frank S 
from the tender or side tanks in this way...

Zby_S 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[robbandcheryl]

Has any one experimented with a tender pump into a Goodall valve?

I have been thinking about that my self.  

I am building a Three Truck Shay so the tended truck will be scratch 
built as well.
Robb

 
> 
> Of course, you could combine the two - use the Goodall valve as the
> inlet for the pump, instead of a traditional check valve. Hmm - didn't
> think of that until just now. Next loco, now that I've got two surplus
> pumps. 
> 
> Later,
> 
> K 
> 
> 

 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Geoff Spenceley]

The Finescale  GWR48XX  has a vertical action hand pump--in the side tank
as there is no tender. It works very well.

Frankly, I have had hardly any problems with tender hand pumps or the check
valves (balls) in 1/32 up to 1/16 scale locos. That, of course, is because
I didn't build them!! I only recall one incident where I had to take one
apart. In one other case some air pressure  to the outlet piping solved the
problem. The air pressure to the intake or oulet will often free up those
obstinate little balls.

Geoff.
>
>You could make one that pumps up and down. I recall seeing one in a past
>issue of Garden Rail. I have locos with cross wise and front to back, they
>both work fine. Forward to back is nice if you are between 2 rows of
>locos/trains.
>
>GaryB
>


 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Kevin Strong]

I'm actually not a huge fan of tender pumps. I built two tenders with
them, mounted crosswise, and while the pumps worked quite well, the
check valves did not. No amount of fiddling, tapping, sanding, or
anything could get the rat fink balls to sit down properly. The result
was in one instance a jammed pump, and in the other, a blown water line. 

The other problem I encountered was with the stress the act of pumping
placed on the tender trucks. When you hold the tender steady to pump the
handle, the pressure goes straight to the tender trucks. If you're not
careful, they'll break - quite quickly and easily, I might add. Metal
trucks may be a bit more robust than the plastic ones I used, but just
keep that in mind. If I had to include a pump, I'd make sure it ran
parallel to the rails. The side to side motion of pumping seems to be
worse on equipment than front to back, where you have the weight of the
locomotive and train to dampen the movement. 

Either way, you're going to get water sloshing around, there's not a
whole lot you can do about that. Remember that if you're going to put
electronics for R/C or anything else in the tender, make sure they're
sealed in a plastic bag so _when_ the train derails and spills water all
over the place, you don't fry your electronics. (Ask me how I know this one.)

Personally, I'm a big fan of Goodall valves. I replaced the check valves
on my two Roundhouse bashes with Goodall valves from Brandbright, and
they're worth their weight in gold. (They're relatively simple backhead
fittings, so if you're scratchbuilding, all you need is the correct
bushing, and you're all set.) Yes, you have to have a squirt bottle
lying around to fill the boiler, but it's always a good idea to have one
of those anyway for fire prevention. 

Of course, you could combine the two - use the Goodall valve as the
inlet for the pump, instead of a traditional check valve. Hmm - didn't
think of that until just now. Next loco, now that I've got two surplus
pumps. 

Later,

K 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Gary Broeder]

Robb,

You could make one that pumps up and down. I recall seeing one in a past
issue of Garden Rail. I have locos with cross wise and front to back, they
both work fine. Forward to back is nice if you are between 2 rows of
locos/trains.

GaryB
 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Norman S. Briskman]

It will slosh side to side as well as rock the "boat".


> to back pumps.  I find that the water in the boiler sloshes around when 
> using these pumps.
> Thanks Robb
> 

 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Harry Wade]

At 04:58 PM 6/12/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Harry, my Northern version would not pass "woist".

Bruce,
   Sorry, that was a typo.  I was momentarily distracted by a choiping boid.
hw
 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Keith Taylor]

Bruce,
Woist shows up in my New York city spell checker! Along with Knockwoist,
bratwoist, and "Dat's da woist smelling gahbage dat I'se ev-ah smelted!"
Keith, (with a wee twinkle in his formerly NYC suburb eye!)
- Original Message -
From: "Bruce Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Tender Hand Pump


Harry,

You must have a Southern spell checker - as my Northern version would not
pass -
"woist".

Bruce

On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:59:28 -0500, you wrote:

>At 03:43 PM 6/12/02 -0400, you wrote:
>>I am in the process of scratch building a locomotive.  And am looking
>>for input about the likes/dislikes of tender pump placement.  Is it
>>better pumping front to back or crosswise?  I have two locos with front
>>to back pumps.  I find that the water in the boiler sloshes around when
>>using these pumps.
>>Thanks Robb
>
>Robb,
>   The use of the hand pump does create a "moment" in the tender body,
>making it want to rock back and forth in whichever direction the pump is
>oriented.  A small (scale) tender is better equiped to resist this moment
>in front to back direction than side to side.  Still, it's not all that
>great at woist so it's pretty much up to you and what best suits the space
>in your tender.
>
>Regards,
>Harry
>


 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Bruce Gathman]

Harry,

You must have a Southern spell checker - as my Northern version would not pass -
"woist".

Bruce

On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 14:59:28 -0500, you wrote:

>At 03:43 PM 6/12/02 -0400, you wrote:
>>I am in the process of scratch building a locomotive.  And am looking 
>>for input about the likes/dislikes of tender pump placement.  Is it 
>>better pumping front to back or crosswise?  I have two locos with front 
>>to back pumps.  I find that the water in the boiler sloshes around when 
>>using these pumps.
>>Thanks Robb
>
>Robb,
>   The use of the hand pump does create a "moment" in the tender body,
>making it want to rock back and forth in whichever direction the pump is
>oriented.  A small (scale) tender is better equiped to resist this moment
>in front to back direction than side to side.  Still, it's not all that
>great at woist so it's pretty much up to you and what best suits the space
>in your tender.
>
>Regards,
>Harry
> 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Keith Taylor]

Robb,
A lot depends on the type of pump, but the side to side type has been
responsible for setting up an wave like motion that can rock the tender
right off of the tracks! At least on some 3/4" scale engines I've seen. I
imagine in one and one half inch scale, if you were sitting on the tender,
to steady things, that wouldn't ever come into play! Another stlye I've seen
which takes up very little room, was two cylinders mounted vertically! And a
rocking lever between the two, so that when one cylinder was pumping, the
other was on it's intake stroke! I don't think the orientation of the lever
would matter a bit with this set up! As the bulk of the forces would be up
and down, and not from side to side or fore and aft.
Keith Taylor
- Original Message -
From: "robbandcheryl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Tender Hand Pump


> I am in the process of scratch building a locomotive.  And am looking
> for input about the likes/dislikes of tender pump placement.  Is it
> better pumping front to back or crosswise?  I have two locos with front
> to back pumps.  I find that the water in the boiler sloshes around when
> using these pumps.
> Thanks Robb
>

 

Re: Tender Hand Pump

[Harry Wade]

At 03:43 PM 6/12/02 -0400, you wrote:
>I am in the process of scratch building a locomotive.  And am looking 
>for input about the likes/dislikes of tender pump placement.  Is it 
>better pumping front to back or crosswise?  I have two locos with front 
>to back pumps.  I find that the water in the boiler sloshes around when 
>using these pumps.
>Thanks Robb

Robb,
   The use of the hand pump does create a "moment" in the tender body,
making it want to rock back and forth in whichever direction the pump is
oriented.  A small (scale) tender is better equiped to resist this moment
in front to back direction than side to side.  Still, it's not all that
great at woist so it's pretty much up to you and what best suits the space
in your tender.

Regards,
Harry
 

Tender Hand Pump

[robbandcheryl]

I am in the process of scratch building a locomotive.  And am looking 
for input about the likes/dislikes of tender pump placement.  Is it 
better pumping front to back or crosswise?  I have two locos with front 
to back pumps.  I find that the water in the boiler sloshes around when 
using these pumps.
Thanks Robb