Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On Sun, 24 May 2020, 11:44 Mathieu Pasquet, wrote: > Why not, this is easier (for most people) to setup than a new DNS > record, but this does not address the case where the server (hosting > both the HTTP and XMPP server in many case) is down, which means it > requires caching the content of that .well-known as well to be safe. > Just want to note that web clients may not be able to cache (reliably, or at all). .well-known can help them if HTTP is up. DNS wouldn't necessarily help here (though I hear querying DNS over HTTP is actually becoming cool...). > ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On 24.05.2020 11:31, Dave Cridland wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2020 at 11:53, Mathieu Pasquet wrote: On 23.05.2020 11:38, Matthew Wild wrote: >On Sat, 23 May 2020, 10:51 Maxime Buquet, wrote: > > All those who expressed feelings against adding this to 157 at the time > you sent this didn't mention why. > > I personally don't see much issue with it, so I just PR'd against it to > add that registry entry. > > >Just want to add a couple of things that have come up in discussions since >starting this thread: > >1) Someone (sorry, don't remember who) had the idea of including this in DNS. > >Advantages: > >- the client doesn't need to discover and cache the value after login, it can >discover it on-demand whenever it has connection issues > >- the admin is able to add/update the value while the service is down > >Disadvantages: > >- Not all clients may be in a position to query TXT records (web clients, may >require additional dependency in native clients) > >- Not necessarily secure without DNSSEC > >- Additional work for people who want to delegate a domain for XMPP hosting by >a third party > Putting this part into perspective, while I like the DNS solution, that’s yet another "out of band " bit to setup, and I don’t see a huge benefit compared to caching regularly that bit of info from the disco. (at jabberfr we have one ouf our "big" XMPP domains managed by someone else, and it can take weeks to update DNS records… It’s not very practical.) Would .well-known work? So for status information on xmpp:jabber.fr, you'd follow redirects from https://jabber.fr/.well-known/xmpp-server-status and get a status page back. Could easily have two, for machine-readable versus human readable, too. Why not, this is easier (for most people) to setup than a new DNS record, but this does not address the case where the server (hosting both the HTTP and XMPP server in many case) is down, which means it requires caching the content of that .well-known as well to be safe. Mathieu signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 11:37, Matthew Wild wrote: > On Sun, 24 May 2020, 11:32 Dave Cridland, wrote: > >> Would .well-known work? So for status information on xmpp:jabber.fr, >>> you'd follow redirects from >>> https://jabber.fr/.well-known/xmpp-server-status and get a status page >>> back. Could easily have two, for machine-readable versus human readable, >>> too. >> >> > I wonder if the best approach is to add to 157 as proposed, and then add a > .well-known mapping for the entire of 157. > Even better. Dave. ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On Sun, 24 May 2020, 11:32 Dave Cridland, wrote: > Would .well-known work? So for status information on xmpp:jabber.fr, >> you'd follow redirects from >> https://jabber.fr/.well-known/xmpp-server-status and get a status page >> back. Could easily have two, for machine-readable versus human readable, >> too. > > I wonder if the best approach is to add to 157 as proposed, and then add a .well-known mapping for the entire of 157. > ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On Sat, 23 May 2020 at 11:53, Mathieu Pasquet wrote: > On 23.05.2020 11:38, Matthew Wild wrote: > >On Sat, 23 May 2020, 10:51 Maxime Buquet, wrote: > > > >All those who expressed feelings against adding this to 157 at the > time > >you sent this didn't mention why. > > > >I personally don't see much issue with it, so I just PR'd against it > to > >add that registry entry. > > > > > >Just want to add a couple of things that have come up in discussions since > >starting this thread: > > > >1) Someone (sorry, don't remember who) had the idea of including this in > DNS. > > > >Advantages: > > > >- the client doesn't need to discover and cache the value after login, > it can > >discover it on-demand whenever it has connection issues > > > >- the admin is able to add/update the value while the service is down > > > >Disadvantages: > > > >- Not all clients may be in a position to query TXT records (web clients, > may > >require additional dependency in native clients) > > > >- Not necessarily secure without DNSSEC > > > >- Additional work for people who want to delegate a domain for XMPP > hosting by > >a third party > > > > Putting this part into perspective, while I like the DNS solution, > that’s yet another "out of band " bit to setup, and I don’t see > a huge benefit compared to caching regularly that bit of info > from the disco. (at jabberfr we have one ouf our "big" XMPP domains > managed by someone else, and it can take weeks to update DNS records… > It’s not very practical.) > > Would .well-known work? So for status information on xmpp:jabber.fr, you'd follow redirects from https://jabber.fr/.well-known/xmpp-server-status and get a status page back. Could easily have two, for machine-readable versus human readable, too. > The only functional downside of re-using 0157 for that purpose would be > if the server is down before the very first connection of the client, > then it has no way of knowing, but is it a case we want to optimize? > > Mathieu > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ > ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On 23.05.2020 11:38, Matthew Wild wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2020, 10:51 Maxime Buquet, wrote: All those who expressed feelings against adding this to 157 at the time you sent this didn't mention why. I personally don't see much issue with it, so I just PR'd against it to add that registry entry. Just want to add a couple of things that have come up in discussions since starting this thread: 1) Someone (sorry, don't remember who) had the idea of including this in DNS. Advantages: - the client doesn't need to discover and cache the value after login, it can discover it on-demand whenever it has connection issues - the admin is able to add/update the value while the service is down Disadvantages: - Not all clients may be in a position to query TXT records (web clients, may require additional dependency in native clients) - Not necessarily secure without DNSSEC - Additional work for people who want to delegate a domain for XMPP hosting by a third party Putting this part into perspective, while I like the DNS solution, that’s yet another "out of band " bit to setup, and I don’t see a huge benefit compared to caching regularly that bit of info from the disco. (at jabberfr we have one ouf our "big" XMPP domains managed by someone else, and it can take weeks to update DNS records… It’s not very practical.) The only functional downside of re-using 0157 for that purpose would be if the server is down before the very first connection of the client, then it has no way of knowing, but is it a case we want to optimize? Mathieu ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On Sat, 23 May 2020, 10:51 Maxime Buquet, wrote: > All those who expressed feelings against adding this to 157 at the time > you sent this didn't mention why. > > I personally don't see much issue with it, so I just PR'd against it to > add that registry entry. Just want to add a couple of things that have come up in discussions since starting this thread: 1) Someone (sorry, don't remember who) had the idea of including this in DNS. Advantages: - the client doesn't need to discover and cache the value after login, it can discover it on-demand whenever it has connection issues - the admin is able to add/update the value while the service is down Disadvantages: - Not all clients may be in a position to query TXT records (web clients, may require additional dependency in native clients) - Not necessarily secure without DNSSEC - Additional work for people who want to delegate a domain for XMPP hosting by a third party 2) It would be nice if we could optionally provide something machine-readable that clients can natively display rather than redirecting to a web browser. That's all. I'm fine with the 157 proposal if it's the easiest path. Regards, Matthew ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On 2018/12/03, Matthew Wild wrote: > Hi all, > > I'd like to allow servers to advertise status pages to their users. > See for example https://statut.jabberfr.org/ > > This information could be cached by clients, and linked to in case of > problems connecting, for example. > > The question is where and how to advertise it. Someone suggested it > might fit into XEP-0157, as if you squint hard enough, it is a > communication channel about the service. The link could also be a URL > to a Twitter, Mastodon feed, or whatever. > > This is one possibility, there are others. Anyone have thoughts to contribute? All those who expressed feelings against adding this to 157 at the time you sent this didn't mention why. I personally don't see much issue with it, so I just PR'd against it to add that registry entry. https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/949 -- Maxime “pep” Buquet signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On Montag, 3. Dezember 2018 11:02:15 CET Matthew Wild wrote: > Hi all, > > I'd like to allow servers to advertise status pages to their users. > See for example https://statut.jabberfr.org/ > > This information could be cached by clients, and linked to in case of > problems connecting, for example. > > The question is where and how to advertise it. Someone suggested it > might fit into XEP-0157, as if you squint hard enough, it is a > communication channel about the service. The link could also be a URL > to a Twitter, Mastodon feed, or whatever. I suggest to not stuff this into XEP-0157, because as you mention, it isn’t much harder to add another form, and we don’t need to muddy the semantics of XEP-0157 without good reason. The existing XEP-0157 clients (mostly bots, AFIACT) won’t do anything useful if you put an HTTPS-URL in there. kind regards, Jonas ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
Le lundi 3 décembre 2018, 11:17:24 CET Kevin Smith a écrit : > On 3 Dec 2018, at 10:02, Matthew Wild wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'd like to allow servers to advertise status pages to their users. > > See for example https://statut.jabberfr.org/ > > > > This information could be cached by clients, and linked to in case of > > problems connecting, for example. > > > > The question is where and how to advertise it. Someone suggested it > > might fit into XEP-0157, as if you squint hard enough, it is a > > communication channel about the service. The link could also be a URL > > to a Twitter, Mastodon feed, or whatever. > > > > This is one possibility, there are others. Anyone have thoughts to > > contribute? > > 157 clearly isn’t exactly right for this, but it seems ‘close enough’ that > it’d probably be pragmatic to use it. I’d suggest registering a new field, > describing the semantics and using it in 157. We could also do not-quite-157 > by specifying a similar form extension under a different namespace but … I > don’t see a great advantage (or any great disadvantage either, really - it’s > not going to be much harder for servers or clients one way or the other, I > think. > > /K > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ > Hi, That's a great idea. Not sure about XEP-0157, but if nothing better arise, why not. In addition to status page, it would be great to have a way to get future planed maintenance (at least the next one), and estimated time before service is up again. ++ Goffi ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
On 3 Dec 2018, at 10:02, Matthew Wild wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'd like to allow servers to advertise status pages to their users. > See for example https://statut.jabberfr.org/ > > This information could be cached by clients, and linked to in case of > problems connecting, for example. > > The question is where and how to advertise it. Someone suggested it > might fit into XEP-0157, as if you squint hard enough, it is a > communication channel about the service. The link could also be a URL > to a Twitter, Mastodon feed, or whatever. > > This is one possibility, there are others. Anyone have thoughts to contribute? 157 clearly isn’t exactly right for this, but it seems ‘close enough’ that it’d probably be pragmatic to use it. I’d suggest registering a new field, describing the semantics and using it in 157. We could also do not-quite-157 by specifying a similar form extension under a different namespace but … I don’t see a great advantage (or any great disadvantage either, really - it’s not going to be much harder for servers or clients one way or the other, I think. /K ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Server status pages
I need to hurt my eyes to squint hard enough for this to fit in XEP-0157. I don't have an alternative available, though. - Guus On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 at 11:03, Matthew Wild wrote: > Hi all, > > I'd like to allow servers to advertise status pages to their users. > See for example https://statut.jabberfr.org/ > > This information could be cached by clients, and linked to in case of > problems connecting, for example. > > The question is where and how to advertise it. Someone suggested it > might fit into XEP-0157, as if you squint hard enough, it is a > communication channel about the service. The link could also be a URL > to a Twitter, Mastodon feed, or whatever. > > This is one possibility, there are others. Anyone have thoughts to > contribute? > > Regards, > Matthew > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ > ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
