RE: ServletException Response has already been committed'
Actually, I think I'm completely off on that element. For some reason I tought a element would specify a forwarding ActionForward and element would specify an included ActionForward. But I think the element does not exist. You can always make this a servlet instead of the action and then jsp:include that. -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 8:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ServletException Response has already been committed' This is for the first JSP I want to include another JSP in the above jsp using This throws Error Message: Error in servlet What am I doing wrong here ??? >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 04:57PM >>> Ok I was looking for a way to tell the ActionServlet to include, rahter than forward to the view. It seems you do it with element instead of element in your action mapping configuration. So your should have a instead of a to that view. Hope this does it. ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ServletException Response has already been committed' The is not a direct JSP and it needs to retrieve data from the database and set the values in the Formbean . I am not sure how this can be achieved, Tiles talks abt it ,but is not clear to me. >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 04:34PM >>> When the ActionServlet forwards to your view that is usually the only forward that happens and everything is fine. When you include another Struts Action in your view with , another forward happens. If you are not doing anything in the Action but returning an ActionForward to the jsp page, maybe you can just go directly to the page in your tag. I don't know how kosher that is in the Struts environment though. Is there a way to tell ActionServlet to use include() instead of forward()? ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ServletException Response has already been committed' Going thru the struts archives it is clear that once forward() is done then the exception is raised. But can some one help as how this can be achieved using Struts. I am new to struts so this may be a naive questions, but how can I show a JSP page without using forward ? This is what I ma trying to do The UpdProvDetailInfo.jsp has the includes, so without forward how can I even show the page. Or Am i missing something.. Thanks >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 03:29PM >>> I'm not sure how ActionServlet processes ActionForwards, but if it uses the forward() method of the RequestDispatcher then the response cannot be commited already. In addition, forward() will commit so you cannot try to commit again. This means that if you have more than one mapped to a Struts Action, then you will try to commit the respnose twice. Or after the the Action is done, the rest of the jsp page will try to write more stuff to the client and cause the exception. If the ActionServlet is not using RequestDispatcher.forward() then I don't know. More experienced Struts guys will probably be able to clear this up. ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ServletException Response has already been committed' I checked it , it works fine when I just use the "selectedproviderinfo.do" . I get this error when I try to Include this another jsp page. Thanks >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 02:47PM >>> is there a chance that accessing "selectedproviderinfo.do" by itself would also cause the same servletexception ? From: "Sashi Ravipati" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: ServletException Response has already been committed' Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:39:34 -0400 I have a jsp page which I need to include in all my other JSP pages. I created an action for JSP to be included and used . This throws Servlet Exception. I also tried but the same result. How can this be achieved. Thanks _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ServletException Response has already been committed'
Ok I was looking for a way to tell the ActionServlet to include, rahter than forward to the view. It seems you do it with element instead of element in your action mapping configuration. So your should have a instead of a to that view. Hope this does it. ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ServletException Response has already been committed' The is not a direct JSP and it needs to retrieve data from the database and set the values in the Formbean . I am not sure how this can be achieved, Tiles talks abt it ,but is not clear to me. >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 04:34PM >>> When the ActionServlet forwards to your view that is usually the only forward that happens and everything is fine. When you include another Struts Action in your view with , another forward happens. If you are not doing anything in the Action but returning an ActionForward to the jsp page, maybe you can just go directly to the page in your tag. I don't know how kosher that is in the Struts environment though. Is there a way to tell ActionServlet to use include() instead of forward()? ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ServletException Response has already been committed' Going thru the struts archives it is clear that once forward() is done then the exception is raised. But can some one help as how this can be achieved using Struts. I am new to struts so this may be a naive questions, but how can I show a JSP page without using forward ? This is what I ma trying to do The UpdProvDetailInfo.jsp has the includes, so without forward how can I even show the page. Or Am i missing something.. Thanks >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 03:29PM >>> I'm not sure how ActionServlet processes ActionForwards, but if it uses the forward() method of the RequestDispatcher then the response cannot be commited already. In addition, forward() will commit so you cannot try to commit again. This means that if you have more than one mapped to a Struts Action, then you will try to commit the respnose twice. Or after the the Action is done, the rest of the jsp page will try to write more stuff to the client and cause the exception. If the ActionServlet is not using RequestDispatcher.forward() then I don't know. More experienced Struts guys will probably be able to clear this up. ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ServletException Response has already been committed' I checked it , it works fine when I just use the "selectedproviderinfo.do" . I get this error when I try to Include this another jsp page. Thanks >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 02:47PM >>> is there a chance that accessing "selectedproviderinfo.do" by itself would also cause the same servletexception ? From: "Sashi Ravipati" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: ServletException Response has already been committed' Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:39:34 -0400 I have a jsp page which I need to include in all my other JSP pages. I created an action for JSP to be included and used . This throws Servlet Exception. I also tried but the same result. How can this be achieved. Thanks _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ServletException Response has already been committed'
When the ActionServlet forwards to your view that is usually the only forward that happens and everything is fine. When you include another Struts Action in your view with , another forward happens. If you are not doing anything in the Action but returning an ActionForward to the jsp page, maybe you can just go directly to the page in your tag. I don't know how kosher that is in the Struts environment though. Is there a way to tell ActionServlet to use include() instead of forward()? ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ServletException Response has already been committed' Going thru the struts archives it is clear that once forward() is done then the exception is raised. But can some one help as how this can be achieved using Struts. I am new to struts so this may be a naive questions, but how can I show a JSP page without using forward ? This is what I ma trying to do The UpdProvDetailInfo.jsp has the includes, so without forward how can I even show the page. Or Am i missing something.. Thanks >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 03:29PM >>> I'm not sure how ActionServlet processes ActionForwards, but if it uses the forward() method of the RequestDispatcher then the response cannot be commited already. In addition, forward() will commit so you cannot try to commit again. This means that if you have more than one mapped to a Struts Action, then you will try to commit the respnose twice. Or after the the Action is done, the rest of the jsp page will try to write more stuff to the client and cause the exception. If the ActionServlet is not using RequestDispatcher.forward() then I don't know. More experienced Struts guys will probably be able to clear this up. ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ServletException Response has already been committed' I checked it , it works fine when I just use the "selectedproviderinfo.do" . I get this error when I try to Include this another jsp page. Thanks >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 02:47PM >>> is there a chance that accessing "selectedproviderinfo.do" by itself would also cause the same servletexception ? From: "Sashi Ravipati" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: ServletException Response has already been committed' Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:39:34 -0400 I have a jsp page which I need to include in all my other JSP pages. I created an action for JSP to be included and used . This throws Servlet Exception. I also tried but the same result. How can this be achieved. Thanks _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ServletException Response has already been committed'
I'm not sure how ActionServlet processes ActionForwards, but if it uses the forward() method of the RequestDispatcher then the response cannot be commited already. In addition, forward() will commit so you cannot try to commit again. This means that if you have more than one mapped to a Struts Action, then you will try to commit the respnose twice. Or after the the Action is done, the rest of the jsp page will try to write more stuff to the client and cause the exception. If the ActionServlet is not using RequestDispatcher.forward() then I don't know. More experienced Struts guys will probably be able to clear this up. ranko -Original Message- From: Sashi Ravipati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ServletException Response has already been committed' I checked it , it works fine when I just use the "selectedproviderinfo.do" . I get this error when I try to Include this another jsp page. Thanks >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/24/03 02:47PM >>> is there a chance that accessing "selectedproviderinfo.do" by itself would also cause the same servletexception ? From: "Sashi Ravipati" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: ServletException Response has already been committed' Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:39:34 -0400 I have a jsp page which I need to include in all my other JSP pages. I created an action for JSP to be included and used . This throws Servlet Exception. I also tried but the same result. How can this be achieved. Thanks _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re[4]: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these tags libs?
If the reason to use a tag in this example is because it looks like it
belongs, and its not actual Java code, than I'm fine with it. I have
nothing against tags. All I'm pointing out is that if you are trying to
avoid logic in your JSPs (like in the example given), you are not
accomplishing it.
ranko
-Original Message-
From: Martin Naskovski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:42 AM
To: Ranko Bijelonic
Cc: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re[4]: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these
tags libs?
Then, if they're so alike as you claim, use the JSTL conditional tags.
Or are you just playing devil's advocate by using scriptlets anyway
because you 'feel' they're ok if used in a certain manner?
You either do stuff a certain way, or you don't do it at all. Breaking
a certain paradigm because it suits you or you think it's ok in
certain cases should only be warranted under dire circumstances, and
should be an exception rather than a rule. You seem to make it a rule.
And that, my friend, is wrong. Try harder next time. :) Your JSP will
look nicer w/out scriptlets. Put java code where it belongs - in Java
files, not in JSPs.
Martin
Thursday, July 24, 2003, 12:33:26 AM, you wrote:
RB> In the example below, there isn't much difference between the scriplet
and
RB> the tag. Both of them are conditionals checking if index is an even
number.
RB> That fact that one is a scriptlet and the other is a tag is only a
matter of
RB> 'syntax' to me. Logically, the developer is doing the same thing there.
We
RB> can pretend like we are not scripting there since we are using the tag,
but
RB> I can pretend I'm dating Angelina Jolie when I'm reallynot. That
said,
RB> I think there is nothing wrong with having display logic (in tag or
RB> scriptlet form) in the JSPs. Lets say your requirements are to display
a
RB> list of entries with every odd entry in blue and even in red. I cannot
RB> think of a better way to do this than with a conditional in the view.
RB> ranko
RB> -Original Message-----
RB> From: Martin Naskovski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RB> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:12 AM
RB> To: Ranko Bijelonic
RB> Cc: Struts Users Mailing List
RB> Subject: Re[2]: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these
RB> tags libs?
RB> JSTL+the struts tags and/or struts-el, for me has completely
RB> eliminated the need to use scriptlets. Using scriptlets invites the
RB> use of business logic in your view (at least, for less experienced
RB> programmers). This, IMHO, is a major violation of the MVC paradigm,
RB> and programmers doing that should be shot.
RB> This is why you should stay clear of scriptlets, no if's and's or
RB> but's. If you design your code correctly, you should be able to live
RB> w/out scriptlets.
RB> Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 5:37:26 PM, you wrote:
RB>> yeah, i don't use tags :). But, it looks like one does not have to
RB> worry
RB>> about matching curly braces when using the tag code :). Seriously
RB> though,
RB>> most of the scriplets in my JSPs are minimal, and are just as easy (to
RB> me as
RB>> a Java programer though) as the tags. HTML coders would probably
RB> prefer to
RB>> learn this tag language rather than the subset of the Java language
they
RB>> would need. I'm sure there are other tag uses where the usage is more
RB>> tag-like.
RB>> While we are at it, can I bag on a particual type of an EJB or would
RB> that be
RB>> too much for now? :).
RB>> ranko
RB>> -Original Message-
RB>> From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RB>> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:09 AM
RB>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RB>> Subject: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these tags
RB>> libs?
RB>> As Ranko asked, about the redundancy of Struts I would like to know
that
RB> the
RB>> heck is the deal with SOME of these tag libs out there?
RB>> I mean, look at this: and look at this: <%
RB>> if(index.intValue()%2==0){ %>
RB>> I like NOT to use Java scriptlets in my JSPs and I am pretty decent at
RB>> achieving that but
RB>> if my only resolve of using a "tag" is to have it look like CODE and
not
RB> a
RB>> true tag why
RB>> have people (code maintainers and the original coder in the first
place)
RB>> learn a new "language"
RB>> and just use a scriptlet?
RB>> Seeing $var like tag code that makes me think this is some sort of
RB>> conspiracy so that all the
RB>> UNIX admins, with their UNIX scripts, who needed new jobs, since WinTel
RB> is
RB
RE: Re[2]: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these tags libs?
In the example below, there isn't much difference between the scriplet and
the tag. Both of them are conditionals checking if index is an even number.
That fact that one is a scriptlet and the other is a tag is only a matter of
'syntax' to me. Logically, the developer is doing the same thing there. We
can pretend like we are not scripting there since we are using the tag, but
I can pretend I'm dating Angelina Jolie when I'm reallynot. That said,
I think there is nothing wrong with having display logic (in tag or
scriptlet form) in the JSPs. Lets say your requirements are to display a
list of entries with every odd entry in blue and even in red. I cannot
think of a better way to do this than with a conditional in the view.
ranko
-Original Message-
From: Martin Naskovski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:12 AM
To: Ranko Bijelonic
Cc: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re[2]: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these
tags libs?
JSTL+the struts tags and/or struts-el, for me has completely
eliminated the need to use scriptlets. Using scriptlets invites the
use of business logic in your view (at least, for less experienced
programmers). This, IMHO, is a major violation of the MVC paradigm,
and programmers doing that should be shot.
This is why you should stay clear of scriptlets, no if's and's or
but's. If you design your code correctly, you should be able to live
w/out scriptlets.
Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 5:37:26 PM, you wrote:
RB> yeah, i don't use tags :). But, it looks like one does not have to
worry
RB> about matching curly braces when using the tag code :). Seriously
though,
RB> most of the scriplets in my JSPs are minimal, and are just as easy (to
me as
RB> a Java programer though) as the tags. HTML coders would probably
prefer to
RB> learn this tag language rather than the subset of the Java language they
RB> would need. I'm sure there are other tag uses where the usage is more
RB> tag-like.
RB> While we are at it, can I bag on a particual type of an EJB or would
that be
RB> too much for now? :).
RB> ranko
RB> -Original Message-
RB> From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RB> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:09 AM
RB> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RB> Subject: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these tags
RB> libs?
RB> As Ranko asked, about the redundancy of Struts I would like to know that
the
RB> heck is the deal with SOME of these tag libs out there?
RB> I mean, look at this: and look at this: <%
RB> if(index.intValue()%2==0){ %>
RB> I like NOT to use Java scriptlets in my JSPs and I am pretty decent at
RB> achieving that but
RB> if my only resolve of using a "tag" is to have it look like CODE and not
a
RB> true tag why
RB> have people (code maintainers and the original coder in the first place)
RB> learn a new "language"
RB> and just use a scriptlet?
RB> Seeing $var like tag code that makes me think this is some sort of
RB> conspiracy so that all the
RB> UNIX admins, with their UNIX scripts, who needed new jobs, since WinTel
is
RB> taking over, starting
RB> writing "tag" libraries.
RB> I mean really, what is the deal with these so called "tags" that aren't
RB> tags?
RB> JavaScript was cool when it came out (and wasn't developed by Sun)
because
RB> if you knew Java then
RB> you were about 90% there to being a great JavaScripter.
RB> So I say Ranko, are you just as bewildered at this as I am?
RB> :-)
RB> -
RB> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RB> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these tags libs?
yeah, i don't use tags :). But, it looks like one does not have to worry
about matching curly braces when using the tag code :). Seriously though,
most of the scriplets in my JSPs are minimal, and are just as easy (to me as
a Java programer though) as the tags. HTML coders would probably prefer to
learn this tag language rather than the subset of the Java language they
would need. I'm sure there are other tag uses where the usage is more
tag-like.
While we are at it, can I bag on a particual type of an EJB or would that be
too much for now? :).
ranko
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Shane C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:09 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Ranko like question: What is the sense of some of these tags
libs?
As Ranko asked, about the redundancy of Struts I would like to know that the
heck is the deal with SOME of these tag libs out there?
I mean, look at this: and look at this: <%
if(index.intValue()%2==0){ %>
I like NOT to use Java scriptlets in my JSPs and I am pretty decent at
achieving that but
if my only resolve of using a "tag" is to have it look like CODE and not a
true tag why
have people (code maintainers and the original coder in the first place)
learn a new "language"
and just use a scriptlet?
Seeing $var like tag code that makes me think this is some sort of
conspiracy so that all the
UNIX admins, with their UNIX scripts, who needed new jobs, since WinTel is
taking over, starting
writing "tag" libraries.
I mean really, what is the deal with these so called "tags" that aren't
tags?
JavaScript was cool when it came out (and wasn't developed by Sun) because
if you knew Java then
you were about 90% there to being a great JavaScripter.
So I say Ranko, are you just as bewildered at this as I am?
:-)
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
Hi, First of all, I want to thank everyone for their responses. I was concerned that the questions I posed could be misinterpreted as an attack on Struts and usefulness of the framework, and that I would get some heated responses. However, everyone only tried to help me better understand the issues I was struggling with. Its a very nice and helpful mailing list here. I agree that there should not be one solution for every possible need. It makes sense that standardizing on such a level would create an overly confined environment. So a framework such as Struts is built on top of the servlet specification. One issue that can come up in such a situation though, is that the framework can somewhat isolate its users from the changes and additions to the underlying specification. These changes might be useful, but since the framework was built on top of the older version of the specification, using these changes does not come naturally in the framework. After enough of these changes have accumulated, it might be helpful to rework that framework to make use of those additions, and to expose them to the users of the framework. That would probably result in an improved framework that would fits better with the current state of the specification it is built on top of. Of course I say this out of desire to always use the latest stuff without having to worry about backward compatibility and the huge user base :). Some people have it easier than others :). ranko -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 2:51 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Andrew Hill wrote: > > > all this great filters in place of ActionServlet direction > > > I could be wrong about that, thats just the impression I get from the posts > and discussions here and on the dev list. It seems a logical conclusion > though. > Herein lies one of the realities of standards-based development -- standards never evolve as quickly as some people would like. For others, though, standard evolve far too quickly and eliminate the opportunity to compete! For better or for worse, Struts 1.x is going to remain based on Servlet 2.2 and JSP 1.1 as the base technologies, for as long as people listen to me (I *hope* that will be for a while yet :-). You see, the other side of developing a widely adopted technology (even if it's only a "de facto" standard instead of an "official" standard) is that it's totally unreasonable to abandon your users and customers who have committed substantial effort and expense to building applications based on that platform. If we (the Struts developers) were to say "sorry, folks, but 1.1 is the end of the line for software that will run on your J2EE 1.2 server", they would have a very justifiable reason to abandon Struts. But that's not going to happen. Ranko, Struts came into existence in the first place to provide a single solution to a series of problems that a very large number of people have had -- how do I architect a large scale web application so that the cost of maintenence doesn't kill me? Indeed, one of the most common comments on the Struts mailing lists in the early days was "I was just building something like this ... I'm delighted that I can adopt a common standard so that I can focus on building software for *my* application, instead of reinventing standard infrastructure." The servlet API did not then, and does not now, provide all the capabilities needed to meet all of those needs in a "Java standard" way. As I described in my earlier message, though, the right answer is *not* to extend the Servlet API to do this -- instead, it is to create standardized frameworks for all of the relevant use cases, on *top* of Servlet. There is more than one need. There is no such thing as *any* single framwork that is going to be able to meet all of them. Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
ok, where do I get the info on all of this? all this great filters in place of ActionServlet direction that struts is taking and deprecation of datasource. i guess i need to read these lists regularly. (I've been using Struts for a while, but I just subscribed to ask my question). -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 12:46 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? IIRC the struts datasource support has been deprecated now for that very reason (supplied by container via jndi). Not too sure about how good the web.xml exception handling is (Ive just used struts so far) - Id guess that it lacks some of the things struts exception handling has thus making the struts exception code a useful addition? hehe, Id have to say that the biggest benefit that struts provides is an excuse to join this mailing list. Ive not seen any other framework or technology with such a helpful community around it! -Original Message- From: Ranko Bijelonic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2003 12:38 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? You are right, Struts did provide a lot of features that have been since widely adopted. I did not mean to be dismissive of Struts here, i was more talking about specifying data sources in struts-config.xml (when it can be configured in a container and retrieved through JNDI), or declarative exception handling which is also available in web.xml (although i'm not sure if its as powerful). ranko -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:27 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? Struts is becoming kind of self sufficient where everything is done through it even if it already can be done through something else. Its like a little container itself. There is a certain element of truth in that ;-) ...though your 'already can be done' is a little presumptuous - in most cases struts provided the feature first and other implementations and ways of doing it came later -Original Message- From: Ranko Bijelonic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2003 03:10 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? >You could certainly code each Action as a Servlet but it would take more >work. I'm not sure exactely how it would take more work (provided there were Struts like utils writen one time). >You've mentioned changing the Servlet spec several times and seem to be >under the impression that it's easy to do. Open source software has >certain advantages over standards because it is easier to try new things. >It's *much* easier to change Struts than to change any Java specification >including Servlets. But you should notice the huge influence OSS and >Struts in particular has had over the standard technologies. Struts >directly contributed to JSF and JSTL with ideas and pressure to make the >standards better than the Struts version. IMO, that's a much more >effective way of changing things for the better. Yes, that is true. We definitely benefited from Struts in many ways. But it just seems to be getting too encompasing. Now we have declarative exception handling that is configured in struts-config.xml, and we have it ( a weaker version maybe) in web.xml. Struts is becoming kind of self sufficient where everything is done through it even if it already can be done through something else. Its like a little container itself. But maybe i'm just temporarily mad :). ranko > > ranko > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adam Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:49 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > > container? > > > > > > for my $0.02. > > > >Using just pure servlet and base JSP, dealing with forms is not > > intuitive > > or clean. You either rely on too much code in a JSP, or too much > > reading > > and parsing at the start of your servlets. And, the development cycle > > increases as your changes increase. I find the Struts mode to be > clean > > and > > simple. Need to change a field, add a field. Change one class (the > > ActionForm, or not at all with a dynaform), modify the .jsp > > presentation. > > And then account for the field change in the business logic. Combine > it > > with XDoclet, and you've got immediate Data/Value Objects that can be > > generated from the ActionForm itself, ready to be
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
You are right, Struts did provide a lot of features that have been since widely adopted. I did not mean to be dismissive of Struts here, i was more talking about specifying data sources in struts-config.xml (when it can be configured in a container and retrieved through JNDI), or declarative exception handling which is also available in web.xml (although i'm not sure if its as powerful). ranko -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:27 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? Struts is becoming kind of self sufficient where everything is done through it even if it already can be done through something else. Its like a little container itself. There is a certain element of truth in that ;-) ...though your 'already can be done' is a little presumptuous - in most cases struts provided the feature first and other implementations and ways of doing it came later -Original Message----- From: Ranko Bijelonic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2003 03:10 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? >You could certainly code each Action as a Servlet but it would take more >work. I'm not sure exactely how it would take more work (provided there were Struts like utils writen one time). >You've mentioned changing the Servlet spec several times and seem to be >under the impression that it's easy to do. Open source software has >certain advantages over standards because it is easier to try new things. >It's *much* easier to change Struts than to change any Java specification >including Servlets. But you should notice the huge influence OSS and >Struts in particular has had over the standard technologies. Struts >directly contributed to JSF and JSTL with ideas and pressure to make the >standards better than the Struts version. IMO, that's a much more >effective way of changing things for the better. Yes, that is true. We definitely benefited from Struts in many ways. But it just seems to be getting too encompasing. Now we have declarative exception handling that is configured in struts-config.xml, and we have it ( a weaker version maybe) in web.xml. Struts is becoming kind of self sufficient where everything is done through it even if it already can be done through something else. Its like a little container itself. But maybe i'm just temporarily mad :). ranko > > ranko > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adam Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:49 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > > container? > > > > > > for my $0.02. > > > >Using just pure servlet and base JSP, dealing with forms is not > > intuitive > > or clean. You either rely on too much code in a JSP, or too much > > reading > > and parsing at the start of your servlets. And, the development cycle > > increases as your changes increase. I find the Struts mode to be > clean > > and > > simple. Need to change a field, add a field. Change one class (the > > ActionForm, or not at all with a dynaform), modify the .jsp > > presentation. > > And then account for the field change in the business logic. Combine > it > > with XDoclet, and you've got immediate Data/Value Objects that can be > > generated from the ActionForm itself, ready to be passed back to your > > EJB > > level code (using CMP, you never have to account for the field in the > > logic, > > unless you're doing business level decisions). > >The mechanisms in place for detailing messages back to the user > (ie, > > ActionErrors) are very clean, easly integrated with field-specific > > messages. > > Seamless integration with Java's i18n functionality. > > > > >> I'm looking for the reasons why this would not be the case. > > > > Are you looking for where using the base Sevlet layer is more > > advantageous > > over using Struts? Or, are you looking for areas that Struts just > > doesn't > > handle, leaving a gaping hole? Are you being persnickity, or is > there > > a > > serious question/concern ? > > > > From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > > container? > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
Message-----
From: Ranko Bijelonic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2003 10:54
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet
container?
Its not so much paving of one's own roads, but recongnizing that the roads
have been paved already :). I'm not suggesting redoing what Struts does,
what I'm saying is that Sturts is redoing what the servlet continer alredy
does (for a significat part). By the way, does anyone use filters, events,
or request/response wrappers with Struts? I'm just wondering.
-Original Message-
From: Jing Zhou [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:46 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet
container?
- Original Message -
From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jing
Zhou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
> >I am getting more clear about your thinking. But saying both (container
and
> >Struts) are MVC frameworks is not accurate in my opinion. Because a
> >container provides you only a 'C' in the MVC pattern; Struts provides you
> >action controller ('C') and form bean ('M') and custom tags in JSP pages
> >('V').
>
> The custom tags (especially now with JSTL) can be used with the container
> 'C' also. So now we are left with 'M'.
There are no counterparts of the Struts html tag library in JSTL. So we
can't
reach the conclusion so quickly. JSF is supposed to offer that. But it is
not born yet.
> I don't consider form beans to be the model, or the whole of the model.
> However its much closer like that.
>
You are right. That is the problem of the current form bean model in
Struts 1.1. However, one of benefits of staying with Struts is that you have
more choices than you pave your own roads. For example, we have
form bean model that is qualified as level one model (12 standard
types are supported, not just string). The Struts users may not want to
use it today, but they have the CHOICES. Someday for some reason,
some of them may use it.
If someone paves his own roads, the choices are up in the air ... That
is my point. Of course, for a particular individual or project, the choice
might not be that important.
Jing
> -Original Message-
> From: Jing Zhou [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:14 PM
> To: Ranko Bijelonic; Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet
> container?
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jing
> Zhou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 5:03 PM
> Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
>
>
> > >It is my understanding that the servlet spec, jsp spec, and jsf spec
are
> > >regarded
> > >as the framework of frameworks (a kind of interpretation of mine)
Struts
> > >action mapping is designed in Struts way. If the struts-config.xml is
> > merged
> > >into the web.xml, a lot of other frameworks would not happy :-) How do
> > >you solve such problems from the perspectives of spec leads, when you
> > >realize Struts way is only one way? I guess they have to investigate a
> lot
> > >of
> > >frameworks before committing one way (a 2 to 4 years effort).
> >
> > >I presume your TaskAction is a more refined controller than the Struts
> > >Action. It should understand event types, command name, etc. from the
> > >http requests in order NOT to overlap the functionality of the Struts
> > >Action.
> > >The Struts Actions could recognize the task-config.xml and execute
> > >configured TaskAction(s) in a workflow manner. In other words, the
> > >Struts Actions are used to declare what to do, your TaskActions are
> > >used to specify how to do.
> >
> > >Does this address enough specific questions you have?
> >
> > I'm not saying that the container should adopt the way Struts does
things,
> > but that Struts does things in the same way the container does :). Both
> are
> > MVC frameworks wich delegate processing to configured handlers. Its
looks
> > like its the same thing already.
>
> I am getting more clear about your thinking. But saying both (container
and
> Struts) are MVC frameworks is not accurate in my opinion. Because a
> container provi
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
Its not so much paving of one's own roads, but recongnizing that the roads
have been paved already :). I'm not suggesting redoing what Struts does,
what I'm saying is that Sturts is redoing what the servlet continer alredy
does (for a significat part). By the way, does anyone use filters, events,
or request/response wrappers with Struts? I'm just wondering.
-Original Message-
From: Jing Zhou [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:46 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet
container?
- Original Message -
From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jing
Zhou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
> >I am getting more clear about your thinking. But saying both (container
and
> >Struts) are MVC frameworks is not accurate in my opinion. Because a
> >container provides you only a 'C' in the MVC pattern; Struts provides you
> >action controller ('C') and form bean ('M') and custom tags in JSP pages
> >('V').
>
> The custom tags (especially now with JSTL) can be used with the container
> 'C' also. So now we are left with 'M'.
There are no counterparts of the Struts html tag library in JSTL. So we
can't
reach the conclusion so quickly. JSF is supposed to offer that. But it is
not born yet.
> I don't consider form beans to be the model, or the whole of the model.
> However its much closer like that.
>
You are right. That is the problem of the current form bean model in
Struts 1.1. However, one of benefits of staying with Struts is that you have
more choices than you pave your own roads. For example, we have
form bean model that is qualified as level one model (12 standard
types are supported, not just string). The Struts users may not want to
use it today, but they have the CHOICES. Someday for some reason,
some of them may use it.
If someone paves his own roads, the choices are up in the air ... That
is my point. Of course, for a particular individual or project, the choice
might not be that important.
Jing
> -Original Message-
> From: Jing Zhou [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:14 PM
> To: Ranko Bijelonic; Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet
> container?
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jing
> Zhou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 5:03 PM
> Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
>
>
> > >It is my understanding that the servlet spec, jsp spec, and jsf spec
are
> > >regarded
> > >as the framework of frameworks (a kind of interpretation of mine)
Struts
> > >action mapping is designed in Struts way. If the struts-config.xml is
> > merged
> > >into the web.xml, a lot of other frameworks would not happy :-) How do
> > >you solve such problems from the perspectives of spec leads, when you
> > >realize Struts way is only one way? I guess they have to investigate a
> lot
> > >of
> > >frameworks before committing one way (a 2 to 4 years effort).
> >
> > >I presume your TaskAction is a more refined controller than the Struts
> > >Action. It should understand event types, command name, etc. from the
> > >http requests in order NOT to overlap the functionality of the Struts
> > >Action.
> > >The Struts Actions could recognize the task-config.xml and execute
> > >configured TaskAction(s) in a workflow manner. In other words, the
> > >Struts Actions are used to declare what to do, your TaskActions are
> > >used to specify how to do.
> >
> > >Does this address enough specific questions you have?
> >
> > I'm not saying that the container should adopt the way Struts does
things,
> > but that Struts does things in the same way the container does :). Both
> are
> > MVC frameworks wich delegate processing to configured handlers. Its
looks
> > like its the same thing already.
>
> I am getting more clear about your thinking. But saying both (container
and
> Struts) are MVC frameworks is not accurate in my opinion. Because a
> container provides you only a 'C' in the MVC pattern; Struts provides you
> action controller ('C') and form bean ('M') and custom tags in JSP pages
> ('V').
>
>
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
I'll wait for Struts 3.0. It should be J2EE compliant by then :) hehe. Serbia. -Original Message- From: Martin Naskovski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:29 PM To: Ranko Bijelonic Cc: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? Ranko, you could just buy Dynamo or WebSphere or WebLogic - that'll give you all you need, tightly integrated :). Where are you from BTW? Serbia, Croatia?? Martin -- Monday, July 21, 2003, 3:26:06 PM, you wrote: RB> That's what I tought too until i read that discussion on sun forums. man I RB> wish I did not :). RB> Now it seems to me that it duplicates more than it extends. Yes, there are RB> some ease of programing additions, but i'd prefer them without all the RB> duplicted stuff and integrated with the servlet controller/handler system. RB> with struts, one tends of tune out the servlet spec and use the Struts RB> facilities for everyting even though they might overlap and look the same as RB> the standard ones. And it grows: we have declerative exception handling in RB> web.xml, but we added a little better one to struts-config.xml. we have a RB> generic form (its the request), but we added i guess a more functional one RB> (DynaActionForm) usage of which is the same in most cases. one was able to RB> define a JDBC data source in a container and then use JNDI to find it, but RB> now you can define it in struts-config.xml. When are distributed objects RB> comming? :). just kidding :) RB> -Original Message- RB> From: Adam Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] RB> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 6:12 PM RB> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RB> Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet RB> container? RB> I think the one thing that hasn't been mentioned. And this is my point of RB> view. The servlet architecture provides the mechanism for the the data RB> flow. Struts utilizes and builds upon it to make it work in a more RB> application-friendly manner. You've got all these roads and highways RB> around, with paths already defined for you on how to get to the store. Why RB> don't you walk there? Or maybe build a vehicle to transport you. I bet you RB> get in the car you bought and drive because it's easier, it makes sense, and RB> you have a solid foundation underneath you (literally and figuratively). RB> Plus you've got features like the a/c and radio -- you may not need them, RB> but they're there to use if you want them. Struts isn't a parallel RB> architecture to the Servlet patterns. Struts builds on that design to make RB> it robust so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. So, yes, Struts "does RB> things in the same way the container does". But, it wraps it in a more RB> friendly control system. RB> From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> RB> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> RB> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Jing Zhou" RB> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> RB> Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? RB> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:03:31 -0400 RB> >It is my understanding that the servlet spec, jsp spec, and jsf spec are RB> >regarded RB> >as the framework of frameworks (a kind of interpretation of mine) Struts RB> >action mapping is designed in Struts way. If the struts-config.xml is RB> merged RB> >into the web.xml, a lot of other frameworks would not happy :-) How do RB> >you solve such problems from the perspectives of spec leads, when you RB> >realize Struts way is only one way? I guess they have to investigate a lot RB> >of RB> >frameworks before committing one way (a 2 to 4 years effort). RB> >I presume your TaskAction is a more refined controller than the Struts RB> >Action. It should understand event types, command name, etc. from the RB> >http requests in order NOT to overlap the functionality of the Struts RB> >Action. RB> >The Struts Actions could recognize the task-config.xml and execute RB> >configured TaskAction(s) in a workflow manner. In other words, the RB> >Struts Actions are used to declare what to do, your TaskActions are RB> >used to specify how to do. RB> >Does this address enough specific questions you have? RB> I'm not saying that the container should adopt the way Struts does things, RB> but that Struts does things in the same way the container does :). Both are RB> MVC frameworks wich delegate processing to configured handlers. Its looks RB> like its the same thing already. RB> Ok, so do these extensions that I have built into my more refined
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
>I am getting more clear about your thinking. But saying both (container and
>Struts) are MVC frameworks is not accurate in my opinion. Because a
>container provides you only a 'C' in the MVC pattern; Struts provides you
>action controller ('C') and form bean ('M') and custom tags in JSP pages
>('V').
The custom tags (especially now with JSTL) can be used with the container
'C' also. So now we are left with 'M'.
I don't consider form beans to be the model, or the whole of the model.
However its much closer like that.
-Original Message-
From: Jing Zhou [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:14 PM
To: Ranko Bijelonic; Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet
container?
- Original Message -
From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jing
Zhou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
> >It is my understanding that the servlet spec, jsp spec, and jsf spec are
> >regarded
> >as the framework of frameworks (a kind of interpretation of mine) Struts
> >action mapping is designed in Struts way. If the struts-config.xml is
> merged
> >into the web.xml, a lot of other frameworks would not happy :-) How do
> >you solve such problems from the perspectives of spec leads, when you
> >realize Struts way is only one way? I guess they have to investigate a
lot
> >of
> >frameworks before committing one way (a 2 to 4 years effort).
>
> >I presume your TaskAction is a more refined controller than the Struts
> >Action. It should understand event types, command name, etc. from the
> >http requests in order NOT to overlap the functionality of the Struts
> >Action.
> >The Struts Actions could recognize the task-config.xml and execute
> >configured TaskAction(s) in a workflow manner. In other words, the
> >Struts Actions are used to declare what to do, your TaskActions are
> >used to specify how to do.
>
> >Does this address enough specific questions you have?
>
> I'm not saying that the container should adopt the way Struts does things,
> but that Struts does things in the same way the container does :). Both
are
> MVC frameworks wich delegate processing to configured handlers. Its looks
> like its the same thing already.
I am getting more clear about your thinking. But saying both (container and
Struts) are MVC frameworks is not accurate in my opinion. Because a
container provides you only a 'C' in the MVC pattern; Struts provides you
action controller ('C') and form bean ('M') and custom tags in JSP pages
('V').
In addition, Struts partition one web application into application modules
for higher scalability of engineering processes. You could not achieve this
using only web.xml.
> Ok, so do these extensions that I have built into my more refined
controller
> warrant rewriting the controller itself, or should I just try to extend
> Struts somehow to handle this extra functionality. Take DynaActionForms
for
> example, its usage is similar to that of a ServletRequest. I ask for a
> parameter/property by name and I get an Object. It might have some more
> functionality, but that could have been added by extending
> ServletRequestWrapper just as easily. I don't know. It just seems things
> could be simpler while maintaining all of the benifits of Struts.
The dyna form is *similar* to a ServletRequest. But it could be nested
inside other form beans in addition to its configurable properties. A simple
ServletRequestWrapper would not make the *whole* job disappeared if you
do not use the common's beanutils.
But it did invoke scaring thoughts at early time when people thought the
benefits of dyna forms are marginal to a ServletRequest. But technologies
advance, much powerful form bean model has been designed ...
>
> ranko
>
Jing
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
That's what I tought too until i read that discussion on sun forums. man I wish I did not :). Now it seems to me that it duplicates more than it extends. Yes, there are some ease of programing additions, but i'd prefer them without all the duplicted stuff and integrated with the servlet controller/handler system. with struts, one tends of tune out the servlet spec and use the Struts facilities for everyting even though they might overlap and look the same as the standard ones. And it grows: we have declerative exception handling in web.xml, but we added a little better one to struts-config.xml. we have a generic form (its the request), but we added i guess a more functional one (DynaActionForm) usage of which is the same in most cases. one was able to define a JDBC data source in a container and then use JNDI to find it, but now you can define it in struts-config.xml. When are distributed objects comming? :). just kidding :) -Original Message- From: Adam Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 6:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? I think the one thing that hasn't been mentioned. And this is my point of view. The servlet architecture provides the mechanism for the the data flow. Struts utilizes and builds upon it to make it work in a more application-friendly manner. You've got all these roads and highways around, with paths already defined for you on how to get to the store. Why don't you walk there? Or maybe build a vehicle to transport you. I bet you get in the car you bought and drive because it's easier, it makes sense, and you have a solid foundation underneath you (literally and figuratively). Plus you've got features like the a/c and radio -- you may not need them, but they're there to use if you want them. Struts isn't a parallel architecture to the Servlet patterns. Struts builds on that design to make it robust so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. So, yes, Struts "does things in the same way the container does". But, it wraps it in a more friendly control system. From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Jing Zhou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:03:31 -0400 >It is my understanding that the servlet spec, jsp spec, and jsf spec are >regarded >as the framework of frameworks (a kind of interpretation of mine) Struts >action mapping is designed in Struts way. If the struts-config.xml is merged >into the web.xml, a lot of other frameworks would not happy :-) How do >you solve such problems from the perspectives of spec leads, when you >realize Struts way is only one way? I guess they have to investigate a lot >of >frameworks before committing one way (a 2 to 4 years effort). >I presume your TaskAction is a more refined controller than the Struts >Action. It should understand event types, command name, etc. from the >http requests in order NOT to overlap the functionality of the Struts >Action. >The Struts Actions could recognize the task-config.xml and execute >configured TaskAction(s) in a workflow manner. In other words, the >Struts Actions are used to declare what to do, your TaskActions are >used to specify how to do. >Does this address enough specific questions you have? I'm not saying that the container should adopt the way Struts does things, but that Struts does things in the same way the container does :). Both are MVC frameworks wich delegate processing to configured handlers. Its looks like its the same thing already. Ok, so do these extensions that I have built into my more refined controller warrant rewriting the controller itself, or should I just try to extend Struts somehow to handle this extra functionality. Take DynaActionForms for example, its usage is similar to that of a ServletRequest. I ask for a parameter/property by name and I get an Object. It might have some more functionality, but that could have been added by extending ServletRequestWrapper just as easily. I don't know. It just seems things could be simpler while maintaining all of the benifits of Struts. ranko - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ib
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
>It is my understanding that the servlet spec, jsp spec, and jsf spec are >regarded >as the framework of frameworks (a kind of interpretation of mine) Struts >action mapping is designed in Struts way. If the struts-config.xml is merged >into the web.xml, a lot of other frameworks would not happy :-) How do >you solve such problems from the perspectives of spec leads, when you >realize Struts way is only one way? I guess they have to investigate a lot >of >frameworks before committing one way (a 2 to 4 years effort). >I presume your TaskAction is a more refined controller than the Struts >Action. It should understand event types, command name, etc. from the >http requests in order NOT to overlap the functionality of the Struts >Action. >The Struts Actions could recognize the task-config.xml and execute >configured TaskAction(s) in a workflow manner. In other words, the >Struts Actions are used to declare what to do, your TaskActions are >used to specify how to do. >Does this address enough specific questions you have? I'm not saying that the container should adopt the way Struts does things, but that Struts does things in the same way the container does :). Both are MVC frameworks wich delegate processing to configured handlers. Its looks like its the same thing already. Ok, so do these extensions that I have built into my more refined controller warrant rewriting the controller itself, or should I just try to extend Struts somehow to handle this extra functionality. Take DynaActionForms for example, its usage is similar to that of a ServletRequest. I ask for a parameter/property by name and I get an Object. It might have some more functionality, but that could have been added by extending ServletRequestWrapper just as easily. I don't know. It just seems things could be simpler while maintaining all of the benifits of Struts. ranko - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
>You could certainly code each Action as a Servlet but it would take more >work. I'm not sure exactely how it would take more work (provided there were Struts like utils writen one time). >You've mentioned changing the Servlet spec several times and seem to be >under the impression that it's easy to do. Open source software has >certain advantages over standards because it is easier to try new things. >It's *much* easier to change Struts than to change any Java specification >including Servlets. But you should notice the huge influence OSS and >Struts in particular has had over the standard technologies. Struts >directly contributed to JSF and JSTL with ideas and pressure to make the >standards better than the Struts version. IMO, that's a much more >effective way of changing things for the better. Yes, that is true. We definitely benefited from Struts in many ways. But it just seems to be getting too encompasing. Now we have declarative exception handling that is configured in struts-config.xml, and we have it ( a weaker version maybe) in web.xml. Struts is becoming kind of self sufficient where everything is done through it even if it already can be done through something else. Its like a little container itself. But maybe i'm just temporarily mad :). ranko > > ranko > > > -Original Message- > > From: Adam Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:49 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > > container? > > > > > > for my $0.02. > > > >Using just pure servlet and base JSP, dealing with forms is not > > intuitive > > or clean. You either rely on too much code in a JSP, or too much > > reading > > and parsing at the start of your servlets. And, the development cycle > > increases as your changes increase. I find the Struts mode to be > clean > > and > > simple. Need to change a field, add a field. Change one class (the > > ActionForm, or not at all with a dynaform), modify the .jsp > > presentation. > > And then account for the field change in the business logic. Combine > it > > with XDoclet, and you've got immediate Data/Value Objects that can be > > generated from the ActionForm itself, ready to be passed back to your > > EJB > > level code (using CMP, you never have to account for the field in the > > logic, > > unless you're doing business level decisions). > >The mechanisms in place for detailing messages back to the user > (ie, > > ActionErrors) are very clean, easly integrated with field-specific > > messages. > > Seamless integration with Java's i18n functionality. > > > > >> I'm looking for the reasons why this would not be the case. > > > > Are you looking for where using the base Sevlet layer is more > > advantageous > > over using Struts? Or, are you looking for areas that Struts just > > doesn't > > handle, leaving a gaping hole? Are you being persnickity, or is > there > > a > > serious question/concern ? > > > > From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > > container? > > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:38:22 -0400 > > > > > > Yes Struts does definitely solve many problems and make it easier. > But > > is > > seems that it solves a lot of problems that are already solved. I'm > > looking > > for the reasons why this would not be the case. Thanks for the help, > > > > ranko > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Sandeep Takhar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:21 AM > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > > container? > > > > > > I guess the main difference between what you mention > > and struts is that you can use this stuff right away > > for the app you want to build without modification. > > > > As long as you understand the concepts you can apply > > them. Similar to how you understand a servlet/filter > > spec. Now you have common problems solved. > > > > You don't have to code them or copy and paste from > > somewhere. > > > > You also have the ability to auto-populate to lists > > which is pretty neat. > > > > sandeep > >
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
yes, Java Server Faces provides a different programing model from that of Struts. Its also an MVC framework, but is more Swing like (or ASP.NET like :)). This kind of programing might win over a lots of developers. But in "map a request to a handler a dispatch the request to it" point of view, we still have Struts and the servlet container itself :). -Original Message- From: Sandeep Takhar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:39 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? If you've built it already, then you've defeated part of the purpose of adopting it, but not all. I don't understand when you say you want to re-write the servlet spec. Maybe you meant, why isn't it in the servlet spec? Java Server Faces may very well replace (now I'm in trouble...) struts in the long run. And this is a standard. Struts addresses a shortcoming and continues to do so. sandeep --- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ok. assume i go through the process below. now i > have RANKo framework :) > (which I did actually). Then I learn about Struts > and say, hey this serves > the same function as my framework, let me switch to > that cause everybody > uses that so its standardized in some way. Then, > some time later you > realize (perhaps wrongly) that it duplicates a lot > of servlet container > functionality and that the MVC part of this > framework is already there. > That's why I'm asking myself how is writing a > Servlet different from writing > an Action. For every Action in a Struts application > I can write a Servlet. > Instead of putting my mappings in struts-config.xml, > I will put them in > web.xml. Now, I know there is some other common > code that is currently not > in the servlet spec, but is in Struts. My question > was is it better to add > some of those to the servlet spec, rahter than > rewriting part of it. > > Or, second scenario. Let say I'm using Struts. > Then I write an Action that > manages these Task objects. I have a configuration > file for different Task > objects. I write an abstract Task class which > different Tasks can extend. > My Action is the controller for all the Tasks. I > figure out which task to > call examining the URL. Over time, I add to this > framework to make it > easier to use. So now i have a task-config.xml > where I specify all my > Tasks. I have TaskAction (a controller). And bunch > of 'utility code'. > Then I ask myself, is this that much different from > the Actions Struts > provides? > > Note that I'm not necessarily saying this is the > case, just asking for some > reasons why that is not the case. General > information about frameworks and > how they come about does not address the specific > question of wheter this > particular framework duplicates a lot of > functionality of its parent > environment. > > Either way, thanks for trying :). > > ranko > > -Original Message- > From: Navjot Singh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:28 AM > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of > a servlet > container? > > > hi ranko, > > Assume you don't use struts. You start writing your > first app for your > requirements. Being an expert programmer, you have > done with first one by > wriitng lots of utility classes and base code. > > Now you start with second. You will realize that the > second app can use most > of the functionality (except business logic) from > the first app. NOW WHAT? > You will dig out some code from first app that can > be RE-USED in second app. > That code can be called a framework(;et's call it > RANKo framework ;-) and > that's precisely what STRUTS intends to provide. > > Anyway, it's your viewpoint. Being a creator of one > servlet/xml/xslt based > framework myself(almost 18 months back), I know what > is *common code* > required for *most of the apps* and the efforts/time > needed to create that > framework. So, when starting with an app, i can find > and USE as good > framework as STRUTS, nothing like that. > > I don't say STRUTS is good enough, you may have diff > requirements altogether > so struts may not be the best choice for you. You > write on your own but it's > always good to look around for good frameworks and > build ON TOP OF THEM. > > hope it clears. still i am trying to give answers to > few of the individual > points below. > -navjot > > |> 1. solid code > |so does the container i guess. > > true but container gives
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
> The fact is that the Servlet spec does not provide equivalent features to > Struts. Struts wouldn't exist if the Servlet spec already had everything > web developers needed. Ok, so Struts started with providing ActionServlet which forwards requests to handlers (Actions) based on its configuration file and the URL. But the container already forwarded requests to handlers (Servlets) basd on its configuration file and the URL. That's what I'm struggling with. It seems like the container,was lets say, 70% of the way there. A lot of functionality that Struts provide can be separate from its controller pieces. I guess we all think of a Servlet as an application entry point rather than just a handler equivalent to a Struts Action. I'm wondering why can't or shouldn't we think of the Servlet as an Action (with understanding that some utilities like form population, etc would need to be added there). ranko > -Original Message- > From: Adam Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:49 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > container? > > > for my $0.02. > >Using just pure servlet and base JSP, dealing with forms is not > intuitive > or clean. You either rely on too much code in a JSP, or too much > reading > and parsing at the start of your servlets. And, the development cycle > increases as your changes increase. I find the Struts mode to be clean > and > simple. Need to change a field, add a field. Change one class (the > ActionForm, or not at all with a dynaform), modify the .jsp > presentation. > And then account for the field change in the business logic. Combine it > with XDoclet, and you've got immediate Data/Value Objects that can be > generated from the ActionForm itself, ready to be passed back to your > EJB > level code (using CMP, you never have to account for the field in the > logic, > unless you're doing business level decisions). >The mechanisms in place for detailing messages back to the user (ie, > ActionErrors) are very clean, easly integrated with field-specific > messages. > Seamless integration with Java's i18n functionality. > > >> I'm looking for the reasons why this would not be the case. > > Are you looking for where using the base Sevlet layer is more > advantageous > over using Struts? Or, are you looking for areas that Struts just > doesn't > handle, leaving a gaping hole? Are you being persnickity, or is there > a > serious question/concern ? > > From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > container? > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:38:22 -0400 > > > Yes Struts does definitely solve many problems and make it easier. But > is > seems that it solves a lot of problems that are already solved. I'm > looking > for the reasons why this would not be the case. Thanks for the help, > > ranko > > -Original Message- > From: Sandeep Takhar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:21 AM > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet > container? > > > I guess the main difference between what you mention > and struts is that you can use this stuff right away > for the app you want to build without modification. > > As long as you understand the concepts you can apply > them. Similar to how you understand a servlet/filter > spec. Now you have common problems solved. > > You don't have to code them or copy and paste from > somewhere. > > You also have the ability to auto-populate to lists > which is pretty neat. > > sandeep > --- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the > > box. > > > > > 1. solid code > > so does the container i guess. > > > > >2. validation framework > > This is one of those changes that could be added by > > way of utility classes. > > Have that Filter that autopopulates, check for > > correct types like Struts. > > > > >3. tile framework > > You can use it without Struts > > > > > 4. auto-population framework > > It should be easy to add a Filter that autopopulates > > a configured form (not > > every time but as a standard). > > > > > 5. role based actions > > I'm not sure what this is. > > &g
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
I would not call it persnickety, although there is no immediate problem. My concern is that there is a lot of duplication of funtionality (if there is). If form handling equal to that of Struts was added to the Servlet specification (for example by providing a standard implementation of a Filter to do so given a configuration in web.xml), would it then be equivalent to Sturts? Basically, it seems to me that much of the framework that Struts provides is already provided by the Servlet specification. If the energy used to develop Struts was used to make JCP somehow make these ease of programing changes that are missing, would we end up with a much better, cleaner, and simpler framework? Or am I completely off here and the MVC framework provided by the container is really not the same as the one provided by Struts. Again, its a general question, I have no pressing need that needs to be addressed. Thanks. ranko -Original Message- From: Adam Levine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? for my $0.02. Using just pure servlet and base JSP, dealing with forms is not intuitive or clean. You either rely on too much code in a JSP, or too much reading and parsing at the start of your servlets. And, the development cycle increases as your changes increase. I find the Struts mode to be clean and simple. Need to change a field, add a field. Change one class (the ActionForm, or not at all with a dynaform), modify the .jsp presentation. And then account for the field change in the business logic. Combine it with XDoclet, and you've got immediate Data/Value Objects that can be generated from the ActionForm itself, ready to be passed back to your EJB level code (using CMP, you never have to account for the field in the logic, unless you're doing business level decisions). The mechanisms in place for detailing messages back to the user (ie, ActionErrors) are very clean, easly integrated with field-specific messages. Seamless integration with Java's i18n functionality. >> I'm looking for the reasons why this would not be the case. Are you looking for where using the base Sevlet layer is more advantageous over using Struts? Or, are you looking for areas that Struts just doesn't handle, leaving a gaping hole? Are you being persnickity, or is there a serious question/concern ? From: "Ranko Bijelonic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:38:22 -0400 Yes Struts does definitely solve many problems and make it easier. But is seems that it solves a lot of problems that are already solved. I'm looking for the reasons why this would not be the case. Thanks for the help, ranko -Original Message- From: Sandeep Takhar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:21 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? I guess the main difference between what you mention and struts is that you can use this stuff right away for the app you want to build without modification. As long as you understand the concepts you can apply them. Similar to how you understand a servlet/filter spec. Now you have common problems solved. You don't have to code them or copy and paste from somewhere. You also have the ability to auto-populate to lists which is pretty neat. sandeep --- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the > box. > > > 1. solid code > so does the container i guess. > > >2. validation framework > This is one of those changes that could be added by > way of utility classes. > Have that Filter that autopopulates, check for > correct types like Struts. > > >3. tile framework > You can use it without Struts > > > 4. auto-population framework > It should be easy to add a Filter that autopopulates > a configured form (not > every time but as a standard). > > > 5. role based actions > I'm not sure what this is. > > >6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of > your application > So does web.xml i guess. > > >7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding) > complete with examples (many years of experience > went > into this one). > Same thing as above. There are tutorials, examples, > etc... > > > > 8. ease of use > If you think of a Servlet as an Action its kind of > as easy. Except for some > repetative tasks that I would include to complete > the servlet
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
Yes Struts does definitely solve many problems and make it easier. But is seems that it solves a lot of problems that are already solved. I'm looking for the reasons why this would not be the case. Thanks for the help, ranko -Original Message- From: Sandeep Takhar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:21 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? I guess the main difference between what you mention and struts is that you can use this stuff right away for the app you want to build without modification. As long as you understand the concepts you can apply them. Similar to how you understand a servlet/filter spec. Now you have common problems solved. You don't have to code them or copy and paste from somewhere. You also have the ability to auto-populate to lists which is pretty neat. sandeep --- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the > box. > > > 1. solid code > so does the container i guess. > > >2. validation framework > This is one of those changes that could be added by > way of utility classes. > Have that Filter that autopopulates, check for > correct types like Struts. > > >3. tile framework > You can use it without Struts > > > 4. auto-population framework > It should be easy to add a Filter that autopopulates > a configured form (not > every time but as a standard). > > > 5. role based actions > I'm not sure what this is. > > >6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of > your application > So does web.xml i guess. > > >7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding) > complete with examples (many years of experience > went > into this one). > Same thing as above. There are tutorials, examples, > etc... > > > > 8. ease of use > If you think of a Servlet as an Action its kind of > as easy. Except for some > repetative tasks that I would include to complete > the servlet spec (rather > than rewrite some of the container functionality to > add those utils). > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:42 AM > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of > a servlet > container? > > > > Sandeep, > You mentioned role based actions in your list... > which has caught my eye. > Can you please elaborate on this ? Or point me to > some documentation ? > > thanks > -raj > > > > > "Sandeep Takhar" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: > "Struts Users > Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ahoo.com>cc: > > Subject: Re: Struts MVC > framework similar to that of a servlet container? > 21/07/2003 06:08 > PM > Please respond to > "Struts Users > Mailing List" > > > > > > > there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the box. > > 1. solid code > 2. validation framework > 3. tile framework > 4. auto-population framework > 5. role based actions > 6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of > your application > 7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding) > complete with examples (many years of experience > went > into this one). > 8. ease of use > > I am missing about twice as many things from this > list > I am sure... > > the servlet container is sun's way of making sure > that > what you build is timeless (and works on their > servers...) > > Struts solves common problems across every typical > application. The servlet container does not solve > these typical problems. Struts is really a > pattern... > > sandeep > --- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi. I've been using Struts for a long time, and > > I've been very happy with > > the framework. However, a recent discussion on > > Sun's Java forums has left > > me wondering if Struts is necessary. It seems > that > > the servlet container > > itself provides an MVC framework very similar to > > that of Struts. All that > > is missing is some utilities and standardization. > I > > was wondering if there > > is a flaw in my logic below, and if anyone had any > > comments. > > > > > > In comparing these two MVC frameworks, the servlet > > container would be the > > equivalent of the
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
You mentioned role based actions in your list... which has caught my eye. |Can you please elaborate on this ? Or point me to some documentation ? | |thanks |-raj | | | | | "Sandeep Takhar" | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Struts Users |Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | ahoo.com>cc: | Subject: Re: Struts MVC |framework similar to that of a servlet container? | 21/07/2003 06:08 | PM | Please respond to | "Struts Users | Mailing List" | | | | | | |there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the box. | |1. solid code |2. validation framework |3. tile framework |4. auto-population framework |5. role based actions |6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of |your application |7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding) |complete with examples (many years of experience went |into this one). |8. ease of use | |I am missing about twice as many things from this list |I am sure... | |the servlet container is sun's way of making sure that |what you build is timeless (and works on their |servers...) | |Struts solves common problems across every typical |application. The servlet container does not solve |these typical problems. Struts is really a pattern... | |sandeep |--- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |> |> Hi. I've been using Struts for a long time, and |> I've been very happy with |> the framework. However, a recent discussion on |> Sun's Java forums has left |> me wondering if Struts is necessary. It seems that |> the servlet container |> itself provides an MVC framework very similar to |> that of Struts. All that |> is missing is some utilities and standardization. I |> was wondering if there |> is a flaw in my logic below, and if anyone had any |> comments. |> |> |> In comparing these two MVC frameworks, the servlet |> container would be the |> equivalent of the ActionServlet. They both read |> their configuration files, |> examine the incoming URL, and then forward the |> request to the configured |> handler. In the case of the servlet container the |> handlers are Servlet |> classes, and in the case of Struts its the Action |> classes. Both the |> container and the ActionServlet will create an |> instance of their handler |> when its requested the first time. The Servlet's |> service method and the |> Action's execute method will call some domain logic |> and then select a view |> to display to the user. The Servlet can use |> RequestDispatchers to |> encapsulate information about the view, and the |> Action will use an |> ActionForward. Doesn't this sound very similar? |> |> It seems like we are adding a lot of complexity on |> top of the servlet spec |> in order to get some common tasks done for us. But |> that could probably be |> better done by the servlet container itself. For |> example, Struts |> automatically populates the form class the developer |> specifies for a |> particular Action. But Sun could provide a standard |> Filter implementation |> which does the same thing. You can declare handlers |> for your exceptions in |> the Struts configuration file, but you can also do |> it in the web.xml. If |> the functionality there is not quite the same, Sun |> can add a little to the |> spec and we would get it. |> |> My question is, is an application built in Struts |> really that much more |> maintainable than one built with servlets? Or if |> some common utilities |> provided by the Struts container were provided by |> the servlet container, |> would there be much difference? It seems that would |> even be simpler. Or |> not? |> |> ranko |> |> |> |- |> To unsubscribe, e-mail: |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> For additional commands, e-mail: |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> | | |__ |Do you Yahoo!? |SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! |http://sbc.yahoo.com | |- |To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | | | | | | |- |To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |- |To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
> there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the box. > 1. solid code so does the container i guess. >2. validation framework This is one of those changes that could be added by way of utility classes. Have that Filter that autopopulates, check for correct types like Struts. >3. tile framework You can use it without Struts > 4. auto-population framework It should be easy to add a Filter that autopopulates a configured form (not every time but as a standard). > 5. role based actions I'm not sure what this is. >6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of your application So does web.xml i guess. >7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding) complete with examples (many years of experience went into this one). Same thing as above. There are tutorials, examples, etc... > 8. ease of use If you think of a Servlet as an Action its kind of as easy. Except for some repetative tasks that I would include to complete the servlet spec (rather than rewrite some of the container functionality to add those utils). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:42 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? Sandeep, You mentioned role based actions in your list... which has caught my eye. Can you please elaborate on this ? Or point me to some documentation ? thanks -raj "Sandeep Takhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ahoo.com>cc: Subject: Re: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? 21/07/2003 06:08 PM Please respond to "Struts Users Mailing List" there's a lot of stuff it gives you out of the box. 1. solid code 2. validation framework 3. tile framework 4. auto-population framework 5. role based actions 6. xml configuration of all the links or actions of your application 7. best practices framework bundling (scaffolding) complete with examples (many years of experience went into this one). 8. ease of use I am missing about twice as many things from this list I am sure... the servlet container is sun's way of making sure that what you build is timeless (and works on their servers...) Struts solves common problems across every typical application. The servlet container does not solve these typical problems. Struts is really a pattern... sandeep --- Ranko Bijelonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi. I've been using Struts for a long time, and > I've been very happy with > the framework. However, a recent discussion on > Sun's Java forums has left > me wondering if Struts is necessary. It seems that > the servlet container > itself provides an MVC framework very similar to > that of Struts. All that > is missing is some utilities and standardization. I > was wondering if there > is a flaw in my logic below, and if anyone had any > comments. > > > In comparing these two MVC frameworks, the servlet > container would be the > equivalent of the ActionServlet. They both read > their configuration files, > examine the incoming URL, and then forward the > request to the configured > handler. In the case of the servlet container the > handlers are Servlet > classes, and in the case of Struts its the Action > classes. Both the > container and the ActionServlet will create an > instance of their handler > when its requested the first time. The Servlet's > service method and the > Action's execute method will call some domain logic > and then select a view > to display to the user. The Servlet can use > RequestDispatchers to > encapsulate information about the view, and the > Action will use an > ActionForward. Doesn't this sound very similar? > > It seems like we are adding a lot of complexity on > top of the servlet spec > in order to get some common tasks done for us. But > that could probably be > better done by the servlet container itself. For > example, Struts > automatically populates the form class the developer > specifies for a > particular Action. But Sun could provide a standard > Filter implementation > which does the same thing. You can declare handlers > for your exceptions in > the Struts configuration file, but you can also do > it in the web.xml. If > the functionality there is not quite the same, Sun > can add a little to the > spec and we would get it. > > My question is, is an applic
RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
I understand the point of frameworks, I was just wondering if the one Struts aims to provide one that is already largely provided by the container. -Original Message- From: Navjot Singh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 4:14 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? hi, No doubt, they are vaguely the same. After all STRUTS is based on container. BUT struts make your life EASY. How? By providing scalable and reusable code - base principle of frameworks. 1. Frameworks are the semi-complete applications. They are standardized answer to the very common set of requirements that almost every application faces in it's life cycle. 2. Containers provide some *services* within some *boundaries*. So does STRUTS, but in more refined & standardized form. If you see around, there is always some base code. APIs -> Base libraries -> Facades and so on. Some one writes an encapsulation to make his job easy AND still there is someone who may like to write more encapsulated code. You will definitely find discussions on this list about extending Action class. Why is that? Everyone knows. There are always some set of requirements that occur more frequently and they need to put together as reusable piece of code and that's why STRUTS is here. regards Navjot Singh |-Original Message- |From: Ranko Bijelonic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:42 PM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Subject: Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container? | | | |Hi. I've been using Struts for a long time, and I've been very happy with |the framework. However, a recent discussion on Sun's Java forums has left |me wondering if Struts is necessary. It seems that the servlet container |itself provides an MVC framework very similar to that of Struts. All that |is missing is some utilities and standardization. I was wondering if there |is a flaw in my logic below, and if anyone had any comments. | | |In comparing these two MVC frameworks, the servlet container would be the |equivalent of the ActionServlet. They both read their configuration files, |examine the incoming URL, and then forward the request to the configured |handler. In the case of the servlet container the handlers are Servlet |classes, and in the case of Struts its the Action classes. Both the |container and the ActionServlet will create an instance of their handler |when its requested the first time. The Servlet's service method and the |Action's execute method will call some domain logic and then select a view |to display to the user. The Servlet can use RequestDispatchers to |encapsulate information about the view, and the Action will use an |ActionForward. Doesn't this sound very similar? | |It seems like we are adding a lot of complexity on top of the servlet spec |in order to get some common tasks done for us. But that could probably be |better done by the servlet container itself. For example, Struts |automatically populates the form class the developer specifies for a |particular Action. But Sun could provide a standard Filter implementation |which does the same thing. You can declare handlers for your exceptions in |the Struts configuration file, but you can also do it in the web.xml. If |the functionality there is not quite the same, Sun can add a little to the |spec and we would get it. | |My question is, is an application built in Struts really that much more |maintainable than one built with servlets? Or if some common utilities |provided by the Struts container were provided by the servlet container, |would there be much difference? It seems that would even be simpler. Or |not? | |ranko | | |- |To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Struts MVC framework similar to that of a servlet container?
Hi. I've been using Struts for a long time, and I've been very happy with the framework. However, a recent discussion on Sun's Java forums has left me wondering if Struts is necessary. It seems that the servlet container itself provides an MVC framework very similar to that of Struts. All that is missing is some utilities and standardization. I was wondering if there is a flaw in my logic below, and if anyone had any comments. In comparing these two MVC frameworks, the servlet container would be the equivalent of the ActionServlet. They both read their configuration files, examine the incoming URL, and then forward the request to the configured handler. In the case of the servlet container the handlers are Servlet classes, and in the case of Struts its the Action classes. Both the container and the ActionServlet will create an instance of their handler when its requested the first time. The Servlet's service method and the Action's execute method will call some domain logic and then select a view to display to the user. The Servlet can use RequestDispatchers to encapsulate information about the view, and the Action will use an ActionForward. Doesn't this sound very similar? It seems like we are adding a lot of complexity on top of the servlet spec in order to get some common tasks done for us. But that could probably be better done by the servlet container itself. For example, Struts automatically populates the form class the developer specifies for a particular Action. But Sun could provide a standard Filter implementation which does the same thing. You can declare handlers for your exceptions in the Struts configuration file, but you can also do it in the web.xml. If the functionality there is not quite the same, Sun can add a little to the spec and we would get it. My question is, is an application built in Struts really that much more maintainable than one built with servlets? Or if some common utilities provided by the Struts container were provided by the servlet container, would there be much difference? It seems that would even be simpler. Or not? ranko - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
