Re: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
Gus Heck wrote: Interesting, I'm not sure I agree, but the patch that he complains about not being added sounds useful... A lot of people have requested a history stack, and have also implemented it in their own applications. But I think we need to solve it in the larger context of a general solution to workflow issues. Meanwhile, the post the author cited does *not* prove this point. In fact, it proves just the opposite. The developer said that he *was able* to extend the framework and was simply offering the extension to the community. This is the same way the Validator and Tiles started. The author was offering it as an example of Struts being inflexible when in fact is an example of Struts being flexible enough that people can extend it without our help :) -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
I didn't know it was an antipattern, either. In fact, I found his discussion completely invalid because he has no real discussion about the failures of MVC, which is what he is trying to point out. To whit, I had to post a reply on the page. =) Included below is my reply as a bit of discussion... http://today.java.net/cs/user/view/cs_msg/2034 David Hibbs, ACS Staff Programmer / Analyst Distributed Applications Development and Support American National Insurance Company > -Original Message- > From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 12:35 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern" > > > A coworker sent me this link and said it was an interesting read. > > http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/12/11/mvc.html?page=1 > > Personally I don't think the author put much research into Struts or > Java Server Faces (which he doesn't mention at all) before writing > this article which has some interesting points and history > about MVC, but > basically > is written to support his new ground breaking Shocks Servlet > Framework. > > > robert > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
It would be nice if the author could at least spell Craig's name correctly... "Robert Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > A coworker sent me this link and said it was an interesting read. > > http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/12/11/mvc.html?page=1 > > Personally I don't think the author put much research into Struts or > Java Server Faces (which he doesn't mention at all) before writing > this article which has some interesting points and history about MVC, but > basically > is written to support his new ground breaking Shocks Servlet Framework. > > > robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
It isn't practical to apply all suggested features/patches anyway, especially those which may not be needed by a lot of users. There's the struts project in sf.net, too, but not all features may be big enough to merit a listing there. Maybe after the command chain is implemented in Struts, we can have mini-plugins for specific features that can easily be shared and plugged in individual Struts deployments. Mix and match. Then again, that could be what the shocks struts plugin is for. --- Joe Germuska <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 9:19 AM +1100 12/16/03, Nick Faiz wrote: > >I think he made some excellent points. > > The nice thing about open source software like Struts is that we, the > users of the software and especially the members of this list can > absorb any useful ideas from criticisms like that and use them to > make Struts itself better. > > Despite one specific example of a patch not being applied to the > source, there are plenty of cases where community contributions are > adopted and added to the core. Remember that for much of this > calendar year, all focus was on closing a very long release cycle and > getting Struts 1.1 final out the door; many good ideas which didn't > directly advance that goal may have been deferred, or even just > accidentally overlooked. > > Joe > > -- > Joe Germuska > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://blog.germuska.com > "We want beef in dessert if we can get it there." >-- Betty Hogan, Director of New Product Development, National > Cattlemen's Beef Association > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
I read that and my reaction was, "It was suggested all of three months ago.". How can the author make a determination as to why it *wasn't* added if no new features have come out since then? Was there some discussion on the dev list he was referring to? Even if he's right, that's a complaint with the underlying design of struts itself, and not with how it's used. -Joe > -Original Message- > From: Gus Heck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 5:02 PM > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern" > > > Interesting, I'm not sure I agree, but the patch that he > complains about > not being added sounds useful... > > Robert Taylor wrote: > > >A coworker sent me this link and said it was an interesting read. > > > >http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/12/11/mvc.html?page=1 > > > >Personally I don't think the author put much research into Struts or > >Java Server Faces (which he doesn't mention at all) before > writing this > >article which has some interesting points and history about MVC, but > >basically is written to support his new ground breaking > Shocks Servlet > >Framework. > > > > > >robert > > > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
At 9:19 AM +1100 12/16/03, Nick Faiz wrote: I think he made some excellent points. The nice thing about open source software like Struts is that we, the users of the software and especially the members of this list can absorb any useful ideas from criticisms like that and use them to make Struts itself better. Despite one specific example of a patch not being applied to the source, there are plenty of cases where community contributions are adopted and added to the core. Remember that for much of this calendar year, all focus was on closing a very long release cycle and getting Struts 1.1 final out the door; many good ideas which didn't directly advance that goal may have been deferred, or even just accidentally overlooked. Joe -- Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.germuska.com "We want beef in dessert if we can get it there." -- Betty Hogan, Director of New Product Development, National Cattlemen's Beef Association - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
I think he made some excellent points. -Original Message- From: Gus Heck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2003 9:02 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern" Interesting, I'm not sure I agree, but the patch that he complains about not being added sounds useful... Robert Taylor wrote: >A coworker sent me this link and said it was an interesting read. > >http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/12/11/mvc.html?page=1 > >Personally I don't think the author put much research into Struts or >Java Server Faces (which he doesn't mention at all) before writing >this article which has some interesting points and history about MVC, but >basically >is written to support his new ground breaking Shocks Servlet Framework. > > >robert > > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
Interesting, I'm not sure I agree, but the patch that he complains about not being added sounds useful... Robert Taylor wrote: A coworker sent me this link and said it was an interesting read. http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/12/11/mvc.html?page=1 Personally I don't think the author put much research into Struts or Java Server Faces (which he doesn't mention at all) before writing this article which has some interesting points and history about MVC, but basically is written to support his new ground breaking Shocks Servlet Framework. robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] I didn't know Struts was an "antipattern"
A coworker sent me this link and said it was an interesting read. http://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/12/11/mvc.html?page=1 Personally I don't think the author put much research into Struts or Java Server Faces (which he doesn't mention at all) before writing this article which has some interesting points and history about MVC, but basically is written to support his new ground breaking Shocks Servlet Framework. robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
