Re: Created a new scuba divers mailing list
Hi, good idea. Unfortunately telegram is inaccessible for blind screenreader users. That's my last info i have from a few months ago. Maybe using WhatsApp. Unfortunately this is a big data collector but it is the most spread messenger. Signal would also work but that isn't as wide spread. Mail and web access would be the most spread communication ways. You can use that with basically every internet connected device with a web browser or e-mail client. That's why i thought about the mailing list. though i can add also a second channel and see what sticks best. *smile* BTW if someone is interested in how disabled people dive, here's my german blog about my scuba experience: https://0sicht.wordpress.com/ Scuba diving is one of the most inclusive sports. For example our local organization also dives with paraplegics who just can move their hands and head. Greetings, Simon Am 01.12.2019 um 06:43 schrieb tormento: My 2 cents: open it on Telegram as generalistic as it is and spread the word. Il giorno dom 1 dic 2019 alle 02:06 Simon Eigeldinger < simon.eigeldin...@vol.at> ha scritto: Sorry for the off topic: Ladies and gentlemen, Hi all, I just have opened a group/mailing list for scuba divers. No restrictions in topics. All questions allowed. Completely international. Divers with or without disability, but all are diveabled. :-) If you are interested in joining, have a look over here: https://groups.io/g/scubagroup/ Greetings, Simon ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Created a new scuba divers mailing list
Sorry for the off topic: Ladies and gentlemen, Hi all, I just have opened a group/mailing list for scuba divers. No restrictions in topics. All questions allowed. Completely international. Divers with or without disability, but all are diveabled. :-) If you are interested in joining, have a look over here: https://groups.io/g/scubagroup/ Greetings, Simon ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Re: Received my Mares Puck Pro with USB Link. What now?1
Hi Dirk, Thanks for the Info. If someone is on the list with that computer would be nice of some help. though i will have a pair of eyes coming around in the next days. *smile* Greetings and thanks, Simon Am 31.10.2018 um 00:24 schrieb Dirk Hohndel: Hi Simon, I don't use a Puck Pro, nor am I usually a Windows user, but I'll try to help you get started: 1. the USB link appears to need a driver under Windows. According to the Mares website, you should be able to download it here: http://computer.mares.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/73/1/cp210x-driver-xp-s2k3-vista-windows-7-8-and-10 <http://computer.mares.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/73/1/cp210x-driver-xp-s2k3-vista-windows-7-8-and-10> 2. the Puck Pro needs to be switched into PC mode. With the single button menu structure this is non-trivial, especially when not able to see the screen. This PDF has all the information, but I'm not sure how well you can parse this with a screen reader: https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/downloads/computer-manuals/Mares_Puck_Pro.pdf <https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/downloads/computer-manuals/Mares_Puck_Pro.pdf> From standard surface mode, five button presses should get you to PC mode In that mode, a download initiated from Subsurface should work. I hope others with access to such a dive computer can give you more detailed information All the best /D On Oct 30, 2018, at 4:08 PM, Simon Eigeldinger wrote: Hi all, I just received my Mares Puck Pro with a USB Link. How do i connect it to my pc and how to use it with subsurface? Remember i am blind and can't see whats on the dive computers display. so unfortunately i can't use some screenshots on a website. I use Win 10 and Subsurface 4.8.3. Do i need some drivers? i just found the dive organizer on the mares website which seems also not to be very accessible using screenreaders. Do i need to switch the dive computer on and select something when i want to connect it to the pc? how do i do that? maybe someone has a little bit of time to write something together? We also can do that privately if people wouldn't be happy to see the conversations on the list. This dive computer is completely new so it just comes freshly out of the box. Greetings and thanks very much for helping, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Received my Mares Puck Pro with USB Link. What now?1
Hi all, I just received my Mares Puck Pro with a USB Link. How do i connect it to my pc and how to use it with subsurface? Remember i am blind and can't see whats on the dive computers display. so unfortunately i can't use some screenshots on a website. I use Win 10 and Subsurface 4.8.3. Do i need some drivers? i just found the dive organizer on the mares website which seems also not to be very accessible using screenreaders. Do i need to switch the dive computer on and select something when i want to connect it to the pc? how do i do that? maybe someone has a little bit of time to write something together? We also can do that privately if people wouldn't be happy to see the conversations on the list. This dive computer is completely new so it just comes freshly out of the box. Greetings and thanks very much for helping, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Re: OT: Aqua Lung I100 Cable
Hi Linus, Am 24.09.2018 um 21:32 schrieb Linus Torvalds: On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 12:05 PM Dirk Hohndel wrote: Cool. Once Linus merges that, we'll be able to add support for it in 4.8.3 I merged Jef's i100 work, and pushed it out. It looks like the parsing is literally identical to the I200, just with the header at a different offset. Anyway, the "you need a cable that costs almost as much as the dive computer" is sadly still true (even if a _slight_ exaggeration). solved the problem now. Ordered a Mares Puck with the interface for 160 euro and now selling the aqualung. Greetings, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Re: OT: Aqua Lung I100 Cable
Am 23.09.2018 um 22:42 schrieb Linus Torvalds: On Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 13:23 Simon Eigeldinger wrote: I just got me an Aqua Lung I100. Thought it was coming with a cable, but no. do i need the special interface cable or can i use some standard off the shelf cable? Sadly, I think it needs the special aqualung USB cable that retails for something ridiculous like $85 USD. Thanks for replying. Yes i guess thats what i also have seen. Even more sadly, I don't think libdivecomputer actually supports the i100 at all. I assume that it is very similar to the i200 and i300 that *are* supported, but it might take some debugging and some help from Jef Driesen to get a download going correctly even with the cable.. Maybe thinking of selling it again. Maybe getting a Mares Puck would be better and then buying the also not so cheap pc interface for around € 40. As a blind diver there is no accessible dive computer at the moment but a logging device would be enough at least to take it with me as a blackbox. Any other computers which are cheap and do the job? Mostly i need air and nitrox. the dive profile can be exported into a csv file which can then be read as it is possible using subsurface though this is also not a completely accessible task but might be possible. though we try to contact a local electronics school which might be able to build a accessible dive computer which at least could show some information through vibrations. Greetings, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers
Hi Robert, I guess that guy was me. *smile* well basically i guess i just need a little tool that exports the dive profile to csv. will try tomorrow to get a dive computer from a friend and export that dive profile from tomorrow with subsurface. the windows i need might be enough accessible. i am using windows 10 home. i guess just a csv file might be enough. Greetings and have a nice holiday. Simon Am 20.08.2018 um 14:52 schrieb Robert C. Helling: Simon, Am 18.08.2018 um 15:58 schrieb Simon Eigeldinger : I am Simon and I am a blind diver. A couple of months ago, we were contacted by another blind diver who was interested to make the subsurface user interface more usable with text-to-speech. That never led anywhere but only due to lack of developer time. But this is still on my todo list. Maybe this would also be interesting to you. My problem to start with was that due to training I was pretty much lost with the text to speech interface even with staring at the screen. I would need to collaborate with experience with those tools. For what you envisioned: could you create a mock up of the file format that would suite your needs. It shouldn’t be too difficult to hack a command line version for you. What operating system are you on? Best Robert PS: currently on vacation and thus writing on the phone only. --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers
Hi Miika, Unfortunately not under windows. though thanks for the info. might set up a small linux box maybe. Greetings, Simon Am 18.08.2018 um 18:01 schrieb Miika Turkia: you could try https://kristaps.bsd.lv/divecmd/ I have not personally used it, but it should be able to export directly to csv and is a command line tool (IIRC it was forked from dctool at some point) miika On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Simon Eigeldinger < simon.eigeldin...@vol.at> wrote: Hi Willem, thanks for the info. well i need just the dc data anyway. so maybe just importing the dc data, exporting all things and then use the csv data might be enough. then not saving the logbook xml file. xml isn't nice to be used mainly as info for blind people so xml isn't the way i think i might use my data. xml is human readable but not convenient. *smile* I guess dctool also might to be able to download the dives but not be able to convert that to csv. Greetings, Simon Am 18.08.2018 um 16:39 schrieb Willem Ferguson: On 18/08/2018 15:58, Simon Eigeldinger wrote: Hi all, I am Simon and I am a blind diver. I have now around 140 dives under my belt and have no dive computer at the moment which is a problem. Mainly the problem is that i can't read the display but thats a different story. I want/should take a dive computer with me to act as a black box if something happens. And also as a logging tool later when i am out and i want to know something. Is there a small tool or could someone write one to get the data off of the dive computer and then write it in a text file or csv file to make all the info on the dive accessible for me. I don't know if dive computers also log the dive profile that way that it saves each sensor reading in a internal table with time, depth, water temperature and other info and if that also could be exported. the problem is i can't use most of the diving software because of their graphical nature and the problem how the GUI has been made. I know there are not many blind divers around but such a tool would be pretty handy. my main OS is Windows but a command line tool would be the most portable to be multiplatform. i am also looking for a cheap dive computer for that because i guess the more expensive ones have features i never use. *smile*. The only gases i currently use is normal air and nitrox. would be great if someone could help out or knows a tool that could do that. Greetings and thanks, Simon --- Simon, Firstly, as far as obtaining text data from the dive log is concerned, here are a few (maybe limited) options. As you are probably aware, Subsurface can export dive logs in csv format. Go File -> export -> CSV. I think, from a blind diver's perspective there are two limitations. 1) The CSV is written as an export format. This means that the dive log could probably not be kept in CSV format. This would therefore currently require a CSV export every time you wish to view new dives that have been added to the dive log. 2) The dive-level data (e.g. dive site name, name of buddy, etc) need to be exported separately from the profile data (i.e. the time-depth values within a single dive). There are therefore two CSV export options: export the dive-level data and export the profile-level data. For a coherent view of a dive, we mostly use the combination of both types of data. I am reasonable sure that it would be reasonably simple to add a Subsurface command-line option that exports the dive log to CSV so that the dive log export could be done by running Subsurface in command-line mode. Keep in mind that the dive log is in XML format which is also text-based and human-readable, as is CSV. The XML version has each dive as a complete item, including dive site name, buddy info, etc. But this would mean being able to use the XML tags to find specific information items. The advantage of this is that no export to CSV would be required. Secondly, as far as a dive computer is concerned, I have never come across one meant for or suitable for divers. The best that I can think of is to use a dive computer with a USB cable interface. Most USB dive computers I have used automatically go into a PC or download mode when the dive computer is connected to a laptop using the USB cable. For my Mares computer it was not even necessary to switch on the dive computer: it sensed the power on the USB cable and switched into download mode automatically. This would simplify the button presses on the dive computer when a blind person wishes to download. But the appropriate mouse clicks using Subsurface would also be required, and I do not know how sophisticated your accessibility software is at reading the download panel in Subsurface. I hope this gives you something to start with. Kind regards, willem --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurfac
Re: Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers
Hi Willem, thanks for the info. well i need just the dc data anyway. so maybe just importing the dc data, exporting all things and then use the csv data might be enough. then not saving the logbook xml file. xml isn't nice to be used mainly as info for blind people so xml isn't the way i think i might use my data. xml is human readable but not convenient. *smile* I guess dctool also might to be able to download the dives but not be able to convert that to csv. Greetings, Simon Am 18.08.2018 um 16:39 schrieb Willem Ferguson: On 18/08/2018 15:58, Simon Eigeldinger wrote: Hi all, I am Simon and I am a blind diver. I have now around 140 dives under my belt and have no dive computer at the moment which is a problem. Mainly the problem is that i can't read the display but thats a different story. I want/should take a dive computer with me to act as a black box if something happens. And also as a logging tool later when i am out and i want to know something. Is there a small tool or could someone write one to get the data off of the dive computer and then write it in a text file or csv file to make all the info on the dive accessible for me. I don't know if dive computers also log the dive profile that way that it saves each sensor reading in a internal table with time, depth, water temperature and other info and if that also could be exported. the problem is i can't use most of the diving software because of their graphical nature and the problem how the GUI has been made. I know there are not many blind divers around but such a tool would be pretty handy. my main OS is Windows but a command line tool would be the most portable to be multiplatform. i am also looking for a cheap dive computer for that because i guess the more expensive ones have features i never use. *smile*. The only gases i currently use is normal air and nitrox. would be great if someone could help out or knows a tool that could do that. Greetings and thanks, Simon --- Simon, Firstly, as far as obtaining text data from the dive log is concerned, here are a few (maybe limited) options. As you are probably aware, Subsurface can export dive logs in csv format. Go File -> export -> CSV. I think, from a blind diver's perspective there are two limitations. 1) The CSV is written as an export format. This means that the dive log could probably not be kept in CSV format. This would therefore currently require a CSV export every time you wish to view new dives that have been added to the dive log. 2) The dive-level data (e.g. dive site name, name of buddy, etc) need to be exported separately from the profile data (i.e. the time-depth values within a single dive). There are therefore two CSV export options: export the dive-level data and export the profile-level data. For a coherent view of a dive, we mostly use the combination of both types of data. I am reasonable sure that it would be reasonably simple to add a Subsurface command-line option that exports the dive log to CSV so that the dive log export could be done by running Subsurface in command-line mode. Keep in mind that the dive log is in XML format which is also text-based and human-readable, as is CSV. The XML version has each dive as a complete item, including dive site name, buddy info, etc. But this would mean being able to use the XML tags to find specific information items. The advantage of this is that no export to CSV would be required. Secondly, as far as a dive computer is concerned, I have never come across one meant for or suitable for divers. The best that I can think of is to use a dive computer with a USB cable interface. Most USB dive computers I have used automatically go into a PC or download mode when the dive computer is connected to a laptop using the USB cable. For my Mares computer it was not even necessary to switch on the dive computer: it sensed the power on the USB cable and switched into download mode automatically. This would simplify the button presses on the dive computer when a blind person wishes to download. But the appropriate mouse clicks using Subsurface would also be required, and I do not know how sophisticated your accessibility software is at reading the download panel in Subsurface. I hope this gives you something to start with. Kind regards, willem --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Dive computer tool for blind and visually impaired divers
Hi all, I am Simon and I am a blind diver. I have now around 140 dives under my belt and have no dive computer at the moment which is a problem. Mainly the problem is that i can't read the display but thats a different story. I want/should take a dive computer with me to act as a black box if something happens. And also as a logging tool later when i am out and i want to know something. Is there a small tool or could someone write one to get the data off of the dive computer and then write it in a text file or csv file to make all the info on the dive accessible for me. I don't know if dive computers also log the dive profile that way that it saves each sensor reading in a internal table with time, depth, water temperature and other info and if that also could be exported. the problem is i can't use most of the diving software because of their graphical nature and the problem how the GUI has been made. I know there are not many blind divers around but such a tool would be pretty handy. my main OS is Windows but a command line tool would be the most portable to be multiplatform. i am also looking for a cheap dive computer for that because i guess the more expensive ones have features i never use. *smile*. The only gases i currently use is normal air and nitrox. would be great if someone could help out or knows a tool that could do that. Greetings and thanks, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Pretty OT: 0Sicht - A german blog about scuba diving as a blind person
Hi all, Just if someone is interested in reading this. I do a blog about my diving in German over at https://0sicht.wordpress.com/ Just if someone is interested in how blind people dive and how that went along over the years. Greetings, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
subsurface accessibility
Hi all, Just made a short video of me navigating throughsubsurface on win 10. though i don't know if that is useful or not. *smile* https://www.dropbox.com/s/mymp7pmsxh7irkx/clip0001.mp4?dl=1 i navigate through the main window, also through the dialog for creating a new dive. Greetings, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Re: Subsurface 4.7.7 accessibility
Hi Robert, Am 17.02.2018 um 09:36 schrieb Robert Helling: Hi, On 17. Feb 2018, at 00:58, Simon Eigeldinger <simon.eigeldin...@vol.at> wrote: Here's a audio demo of it. Maybe its easier to understand than the things i have written: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2451sl7b8c0s848/subsurface%204.7.7%20accessibility%20issues.mp3?dl=1 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/2451sl7b8c0s848/subsurface%204.7.7%20accessibility%20issues.mp3?dl=1> I agree it should be pretty straight forward to add missing labels to UI elements and make stuff reachable by tabbing. Maybe it would be helpful if you tell us which workflows (like, downloading from dive computer manually adding dives (even though that is pretty graphics oriented), dive list statistics) you would most urgently need. Hi Robert, I don't have a dive computer at the moment. As a blind person i am that close to my buddy basically holding his/her shoulder so i can get the data from there and entering it in manually. at least the basic data. Though i am in search of equipment that could tell me under water the basic things like current depth, cylinder pressure, etc. though at the moment we are coming up empty and i also have asked some diving computer manufacturers though they have no solution. So i guess we could start with the basics and then gradually getting more and more parts accessible. the most interesting would be the statistical tables as well as the main dives list and searches. graphical things wouldn't make sense because we blind and visually impaired people are text based. *smile* Greetings, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Re: Subsurface 4.7.7 accessibility
Hi Dirk, Here's a audio demo of it. Maybe its easier to understand than the things i have written: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2451sl7b8c0s848/subsurface%204.7.7%20accessibility%20issues.mp3?dl=1 Greetings, Simon Am 17.02.2018 um 00:09 schrieb Dirk Hohndel: Hey Simon, Thank you for reaching out to us. I will admit that I am anything but an expert on accessibility, but I'd love to make sure we fix the issues that you describe. Reachability with tab should be relatively easy to address. I think :-) But I'm not sure what exactly you mean by labels that are placed so that the screenreader cannot detect them. Can you explain this a different way? Or give examples? Thanks and welcome to the Subsurface community! /D On Feb 16, 2018, at 2:43 PM, Simon Eigeldinger <simon.eigeldin...@vol.at> wrote: Hi all, My name is Simon. I am a blind diver and i am in search of a divelog software. Unfortunately Subsurface seems to have some accessibility bugs. Though i guess most of them can be fixed pretty easily. Some controls can't be reached using the tab key and some labels seem not placed so that the screenreader can detect it. Maybe someone could have a look at that? I surely am willing to help with everything i can. I use the NVDA screenreader on Windows. NVDA can be gotten over there: https://www.nvaccess.org/ Greetings and thanks, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
Subsurface 4.7.7 accessibility
Hi all, My name is Simon. I am a blind diver and i am in search of a divelog software. Unfortunately Subsurface seems to have some accessibility bugs. Though i guess most of them can be fixed pretty easily. Some controls can't be reached using the tab key and some labels seem not placed so that the screenreader can detect it. Maybe someone could have a look at that? I surely am willing to help with everything i can. I use the NVDA screenreader on Windows. NVDA can be gotten over there: https://www.nvaccess.org/ Greetings and thanks, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
OT: Accessible dive computers for blind and visually impaired divers?
Hi all, This might be off topic but I don't know where to ask. I am a blind diver and just have finished my Advanced Open Water Diver. I wonder if there are some any talking or otherwise accessible dive computers for blind or visually impaired people? Maybe someone has information of completely or partly accessible hardware? Or if some computers could be made that way? I guess it might be not all that difficult at least for some companies who develop such computers. Greetings and thanks a lot for helping, Simon --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ subsurface mailing list subsurface@subsurface-divelog.org http://lists.subsurface-divelog.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/subsurface
