Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg g...@redhat.com wrote: So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the Fedora booth at FOSDEM. The latest known to work is: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso Simon did another image today, but I don't know what improvements it contains and if it's tested. Marco Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just leverage his work... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Email client
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 23:07, David Cabo david.c...@gmail.com wrote: What's the current status of Gears on the XO? Can it be added to Browser? I remember someone started working on it a few months ago, but unfortunately I don't know if they were successful. The reason I'm asking is that GMail is currently rolling out offline support, although it's disabled by default at the moment: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-in-labs-offline-gmail.html Last I looked, Gears worked in Browse, but you had to unzip the .xpi and put the different bits in two or three different places. Regards, Tomeu Regards, /david On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Gabriel Eirea gei...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/1/30 Grant Bowman grant...@gmail.com: Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. As the teacher says in the video, email is fundamental. Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. That's exactly what I understood from their description. The teacher sends an email with an attachment. The children download it with gmail at the school and store the attachment in the Journal. Then they take it home, work on it, and when they return to school they send their work to the teacher using gmail again. An email activity with replication or however it is called (making a local copy of the emails and synchronizing automatically with the server whenever there is connectivity), would be very useful so they are not limited to attachments only. Regards, Gabriel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti marc...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But setting up a rsync server may help with that. Regards, Tomeu Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just leverage his work... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for sugar and its activities... I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe) Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti marc...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But setting up a rsync server may help with that. Regards, Tomeu Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just leverage his work... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Hi, Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding locals and drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly draft up a kickstart file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not limited to the XO. Even if Marco wouldn't like this, it was on my list of things we should do for the XO Fedora build, so please do! ;-) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But you don't actually need to download images each time. yum update works fine... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding locals and drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly draft up a kickstart file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not limited to the XO. I'd love that! Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for sugar and its activities... I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe) It might also be worth considering Luke Macken's liveusb-creator for Fedora: https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ The thing about it is that it runs under Windows, as well as under Linux and already supports downloading iso images. I added support for the Fedora Sugar Spin (you just need to plug in an USB key and it downloads the stuff for you and puts it on the key) but probably we could work something out or even replace it with another image... Just some thoughts, though. --Sebastian Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti marc...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But setting up a rsync server may help with that. Regards, Tomeu Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just leverage his work... Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Ok, did not think about yum update. Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Ok, did not think about yum update. Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). Marco As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well - that is true. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever other apps... On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Ok, did not think about yum update. Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). Marco As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well - that is true. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever other apps... Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p Apart from that - not a big deal for me. Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:53 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever other apps... gdm was eating quite a bit of memory last time I tried. Also Caroline didn't want to have a choice visible in the UI, she wants Soas to look very clean and straightforward, advanced users can go to the shell if they want to use GNOME. (Again reporting her rationale, and hoping to do it correctly, but I tend to agree). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for all educational groups... David This sounds pretty much like an education spin, doesn't it? If you're interested, some folks (including me) have been working within the EDU SIG at Fedora on such a thing: [1] It's based on XFCE, but includes nevertheless the (imo very amazing set of) KDE education apps and also some other related software. There's still Sugar missing - for now. I'm wondering, how a collaboration would be useful and whether this couldn't be profitable for both projects... ;) --Sebastian [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Education_Spin On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: David Van Assche wrote: You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever other apps... Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p Apart from that - not a big deal for me. Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes yum install would work So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go ahead :) Marco Well, how does working on reducing the size of the Fedora Sugar Spin sound to you? It has currently something a size of around 450 MB, but I'm pretty sure that we can get towards 300 MB. Picking the low hanging fruits there might be an idea... I'll see what I can do with some tweaks. --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too kind Regards, David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Simon Schampijer schrieb: David Van Assche wrote: What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for all educational groups... David If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware than the XO. --Sebastian [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
David Van Assche wrote: Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too kind Regards, David Van Assche Yeah, I agree! The folks at KDE are doing a great job with their kdeedu stuff. I came across this here recently, looks like a good plan to me [1]; thanks to Greg for referring me to it. ;) I'm not feared either of mixing Gnome, KDE and Sugar apps (XFCE is also our Fedora spin), but there're some questions coming into my mind: * How can we promote Sugar best? So. Obviously the question would also be whether it makes sense to include Sugar in a general Fedora Education Spin (e.g. which includes also kdeedu). But how would this work? I mean would we just have to desktops there, or how can we provide the best usability? And would something like this worth targeting F11? If the answer to the last question is 'yes', I'd need to hurry a bit with modifying the kickstart and talking other folks. * How can we prevent us from doing duplicated work? Does it make sense to release Sugar on a Stick and a Fedora Sugar Spin at the same time, with just marginal differences (e.g. having more activities in SoaS but the Fedora trademark in the latter one)? Or would it e.g. be worth considering to drop e.g. the Fedora Sugar Spin and focus instead on SoaS *and* and inclusion of Sugar on a complete Education Spin? I think this really needs to be discussed. If you want to, even at FOSDEM ;). These are just some thoughts and I'm not quite sure, where this will end up, though. --Sebastian On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Simon Schampijer schrieb: David Van Assche wrote: What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for all educational groups... David If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware than the XO. --Sebastian [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Sebastian Dziallas wrote: David Van Assche wrote: Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too kind Regards, David Van Assche Yeah, I agree! The folks at KDE are doing a great job with their kdeedu stuff. I came across this here recently, looks like a good plan to me [1]; thanks to Greg for referring me to it. ;) I'm not feared either of mixing Gnome, KDE and Sugar apps (XFCE is also our Fedora spin), but there're some questions coming into my mind: * How can we promote Sugar best? So. Obviously the question would also be whether it makes sense to include Sugar in a general Fedora Education Spin (e.g. which includes also kdeedu). But how would this work? I mean would we just have to desktops there, or how can we provide the best usability? And would something like this worth targeting F11? If the answer to the last question is 'yes', I'd need to hurry a bit with modifying the kickstart and talking other folks. * How can we prevent us from doing duplicated work? Does it make sense to release Sugar on a Stick and a Fedora Sugar Spin at the same time, with just marginal differences (e.g. having more activities in SoaS but the Fedora trademark in the latter one)? Or would it e.g. be worth considering to drop e.g. the Fedora Sugar Spin and focus instead on SoaS *and* and inclusion of Sugar on a complete Education Spin? I think this really needs to be discussed. If you want to, even at FOSDEM ;). These are just some thoughts and I'm not quite sure, where this will end up, though. --Sebastian /me reminds himself of adding links before pushing the send-button. [1] http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Simon Schampijer schrieb: David Van Assche wrote: What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for all educational groups... David If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware than the XO. --Sebastian [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Dear Sugar team, I've been very confused (and frankly, significantly angered) by recent remarks that I've encountered both in person (e.g. from Bernie) and in #sugar (e.g. from Simon and Tomeu) about how sugar-related folk are thinking about the issue of mass activity installation and update. Consequently, I'd find it really helpful if we could sit down, lay out all the agreed facts, disagreements, and desires, and then figure out a mutually agreeable plan for the future. What about discussing it in the next development team meeting? http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings#When_and_where Greg has magic powers to get all of us working together. We are such an apollo team! Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti marc...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Dear Sugar team, I've been very confused (and frankly, significantly angered) by recent remarks that I've encountered both in person (e.g. from Bernie) and in #sugar (e.g. from Simon and Tomeu) about how sugar-related folk are thinking about the issue of mass activity installation and update. Consequently, I'd find it really helpful if we could sit down, lay out all the agreed facts, disagreements, and desires, and then figure out a mutually agreeable plan for the future. What about discussing it in the next development team meeting? http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings#When_and_where Greg has magic powers to get all of us working together. We are such an apollo team! Can someone tell me what it is we are discussing? --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:26 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: Can someone tell me what it is we are discussing? We need to integrate some kind of activity updating solution in Glucose. There is disagreement on when (0.84 or next release cycle) and what (your updater, something based on it, a complete rewrite). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Soas name
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: To the contrary, the words Sugar on a Stick actually mean something. Actually they mean two things: Sugar environment on a USB stick in the context of software, and a kind of candy in the context of food. +1 I've talked to a lot of people about this concept. Based on my experience I want a name that I can say and people can get some idea of what I mean. Then I can joke and say code name Lollipop and give out lollipops, but first I need people to know what I'm talking about. But Sugar on a Stick has a ring to it and communicates. If we want to name the release candidates lollipop-1 lollipop-2 etc. I'm ok with that. I have no attachment to the acronym SoaS. But the official project name for Sugar on a Stick should stay Sugar on a Stick. Thanks, Caroline Lollipop or Rock Candy means nothing in the context of software unless you *know* you are also in the context of Sugar environments. . I think that if we are producing an Official Sugar distribution that is intended to run on XOs, PCs, USB sticks, emulators, etc. perhaps SoaS is a little too specific. Regards, Wade On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote: Or rock candy :) -lf On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Mitch Bradley w...@firmworks.comwrote: The name Soas lacks pizazz. How about lollipop? After all, a lollipop is just .. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Summary Minutes from olpc-friends' Tuesday Deployment Meeting
Folks, We had an awesome deployment meeting this Tuesday at 2000 UTC on #olpc-deployment on irc.freenode.net. Almost 30 people came, with knowledge of 10 different deployments! Summary and minutes are now available at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#Summary http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127 Enjoy, and please join us next Tuesday at 2000 UTC or Wednesday at 0500 UTC. Also, please feel free to add items to the next meetings' agenda at the bottom of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings so that interested folks can prepare questions and remarks. Voluntarily yours, Michael P.S. - Would some kind English+Spanish-speaking soul be willing to provide a nice translation of Hernan's remarks: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#hpachas.27_Remarks for interested illiterates like me? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Summary Minutes from olpc-friends' Tuesday Deployment Meeting
Enjoy: hpachas _sj_, los temas de implementación pasan por 3 temas importantes the implementation themes are split into 3 important ones: hpachas _sj_, logistico, técnico y pedagógico logistics, technical and pedagogical hpachas pienso que se deben agendar reuniones en base a los tres grandes temas _sj_ hpachas, los tres! I think we should aggregate the meetings according to the big 3 themes _sj_ oh, right, logistics _sj_ hpachas, absolutamente. logistics is its own Field _sj_ as anyone who has every sat with hernan or fiorella can tell you... hpachas _sj_, en la parte logistica, son muchos pasos que los demás paises deben entender como realizarlo yes in the logistics part there are many steps that the other countries could learn how to realize hpachas _sj_, ahora a eso tenemos que añadir: distribución, reparación, sustitución to that we now need to add distribution, repairs, and substitution _sj_ hpachas, que es sustitucion? _sj_ support? hpachas _sj_, sustitución = reemplazo de un equipo por otro _sj_ ah! interestante! substitution means replacing one machine for another hpachas _sj_, son muchas cosas por las cuales nosotros ya hemos pasado y estamos pasando these are many aspects which we have already experienced and are experiencing. hpachas _sj_, ahora en el tema técnico, es otro mundo paralelo in the technical theme, it is a parallel world hpachas _sj_, localización, activación, etc, etc localisation, activation, etc _sj_ hpachas, si, muchas muchas cosas importantes yes many important things hpachas _sj_, tenemos q recordar que la parte técnica va en los siguientes aspectos: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Acceso a Internet we have to remember that the technical parts are split into the following items: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Internet Access _sj_ hpachas, puedes ayudar con los agendas de estos reuniones? can u help with the agenda of these meetings _sj_ tienes el gran parte de experiencia con estos u have the most experience with these items _sj_ temas, problemas, soluciones themes, problems, solutions _sj_ y la compartmentacion entre temas diferentes y paraleles and the compartimentisation between different parallel themes hpachas _sj_, pienso que debemos hacer una evaluación de como se encuentran en estos mometnos todos los paises OLPC I think we should evaluate how the OLPC countries find themselves right now. _sj_ Swhti? hpachas _sj_, quizas tener un site que diga el grado de avance de cada pais, ayudaría maybe have a site that shows the percentage of advancement of each country would help _sj_ hpachas, estos discusiones son para los escuelas y paises pequenos these discussions are for schools and smaller countries only _sj_ solamente _sj_ pero hay paraleles but there are parallels _sj_ ah _sj_ el mapo con el grado de avance es muy viejo the map with the percentage advance is very old _sj_ mapa* _sj_ hmm hpachas ese mapa debe ser interactivo, editable a través de internte that map should be interactive and editable via the net. _sj_ hpachas, voy a ver. si... _sj_ no tenemos cada uno _sj_ pere sera valable hpachas _sj_, si colocamos el programa OLPC en linea de tiempo, diria q empieza por el tema logistico, técnico/pedagógico If we put the OLPC program in a linear timeline, we could say it starts with the logistics, and then tecnical and pedagogical. _sj_ si. wikitimeline es interesante para eso... wikitimeline could be used for that. _sj_ http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EasyTimeline On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Folks, We had an awesome deployment meeting this Tuesday at 2000 UTC on #olpc-deployment on irc.freenode.net. Almost 30 people came, with knowledge of 10 different deployments! Summary and minutes are now available at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#Summary http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127 Enjoy, and please join us next Tuesday at 2000 UTC or Wednesday at 0500 UTC. Also, please feel free to add items to the next meetings' agenda at the bottom of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings so that interested folks can prepare questions and remarks. Voluntarily yours, Michael P.S. - Would some kind English+Spanish-speaking soul be willing to provide a nice translation of Hernan's remarks: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#hpachas.27_Remarks for interested illiterates like me? ___ Devel mailing list de...@lists.laptop.org
Re: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice
What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting arbitrary functions to execute within TA. I can imagine that Rainbow would be of some protection here, but are there other things I can do to restrict, say to the math module, the functions available. Would TA make the system more vulnerable that it already is with Pippy, Develop and Terminal? If not then I don't see a problem. I would like learners have access to more functions than in the math module. The idea of empowering learners has risks, that's why the XO is easily re-flashed. The only thing that worries me is a virus spreading through the mesh network, but I suspect that whatver the risk is, its already there. Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Email client
Hi... The interesting thing is that the folks on the Sur list (mostly from Uruguay) are speculating about a lot of the same things and also, who the teacher is! It was posted with nickname which may or may not be the teacher's. Now they are saying that this sort of thing needs to be done more often so that developers and other interested people can see how teachers are actually using the XO with their students. They realize that having it with English sub-titles will give it a wider audience. So, hopefully there will be more to share soon. Caryl Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:18:27 -0500 From: h...@laptop.org To: ca...@laptop.org Subject: Fwd: [Sugar-devel] Email client Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:53:48 -0800 From: Grant Bowman grant...@gmail.com To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. As the teacher says in the video, email is fundamental. Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/xomail is the best summary of email client writing to date but the code for sweetmail has little documentation so far and few commits. I hope Shikhar can speak a bit more about it's status. -- Grant Bowman grant...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, How is Forms discussed at the end of the second video implemented? Is that a Sugar activity or is it using Moodle? Thanks, Caroline PS Awesome videos! -- Forwarded message -- From: Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Date: 2009/1/29 Subject: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) To: OLPC Support Gang support-gang-boun...@lists.laptop.org, Developers List de...@lists.laptop.org Hi... Someone in Uruguay has posted two videos showing how they are using the XOs in the classrooms. It is difficult to understand the children at times, but someone has put in sub-titles in English. So, for us, that is ok (some of the Spanish speakers are having trouble with it though). There are amazing things in here...how the students and teacher keep in constant communication, how the teacher keeps track of what the students are doing, how and what they are learning from TurtleArt, how they use email, how they figured out how to convert and play YouTube videos, and how the teacher uses them as part of the curriculum. The tool they used for the subtitles, Overstream, seems pretty fantastic too. The possibilities of using it for other things seem endless. This is really good stuff. Take the time to check it out! http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl Caryl Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:01 -0200 From: gei...@gmail.com To: olpc-...@lists.laptop.org Subject: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay Estimados: En el edublog un maestro de Rivera (Jorge Cancela creo que es su nombre, su alias es JUCL) publicó dos videos con una presentación del uso de la XO en clase, hecha en conjunto con algunos alumnos. Me pareció muy bueno y me pareció que debía ser conocido por mucha gente. Sobre todo pienso en quienes trabajan en forma voluntaria para hacer el proyecto una realidad y muchas veces no saben qué es lo que pasa en los lugares donde se realiza el proyecto. Entonces le puse subtítulos en inglés y los publiqué aquí: http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl ¿Qué les parece? Algunos tramos no entendía bien lo que decían y quedó como puntos suspensivos, cualquier sugerencia para rellenarlos será bienvenida. Saludos, Gabriel ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Devel mailing list de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids
Hi... Here is more good stuff from Uruguay. These anecdotes were collected from teachers at a school for developmentally challenged children in Uruguay at a fair they had for a number of schools participating in Project Ceibal (OLPC in Uruguay). They were originally posted on a blog in Spanish which I will list below, but here is where you can find a machine translation into English on the Project Ceibal blog site: http://olpc-ceibal.blogspot.com/2009/01/anecdotes-of-plan-ceibal-in-durazno.html Caryl The original blog in Spanish can be found at: http://www.blogedu-rosamel.blogspot.com/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 05:45:32PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: that said, it is an interesting exercise to try drawing letters with the Turtle. Yes, a fantastic way to learn the geometry of letters in another way than with pen and ink. -- James Cameronmailto:qu...@us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Yes yum install would work Sent from my iPhone Caroline Meeks 617-395-7966 On Jan 31, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti marc...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Ok, did not think about yum update. Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM
Low floor no ceiling A 4 year old should not face a dialog box asking gnome or sugar. A 12 year old with experience should be able to break out of sugar to the full power of Linux. It's ok with me if the 12 year old has to toto a page in a wiki to do it. Doesn't have to be super easy just possible. Thanks Sent from my iPhone Caroline Meeks 617-395-7966 On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:00 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti marc...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:53 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever other apps... gdm was eating quite a bit of memory last time I tried. Also Caroline didn't want to have a choice visible in the UI, she wants Soas to look very clean and straightforward, advanced users can go to the shell if they want to use GNOME. (Again reporting her rationale, and hoping to do it correctly, but I tend to agree). Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:01 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting arbitrary functions to execute within TA. I can imagine that Rainbow would be of some protection here, but are there other things I can do to restrict, say to the math module, the functions available. Would TA make the system more vulnerable that it already is with Pippy, Develop and Terminal? If not then I don't see a problem. I would like learners have access to more functions than in the math module. The idea of empowering learners has risks, that's why the XO is easily re-flashed. The only thing that worries me is a virus spreading through the mesh network, but I suspect that whatver the risk is, its already there The model is different, though, with TA. Develop and Terminal are single-user programs, you can't join and automagically get tainted code. An idea for securing TA as Walter describes it would be to have the python code be parsed by TA itself and not the interpreter, filtering out _very_carefully_ unwanted imports, open()s, evals(), compiles(), and execs(). -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
