date:20090424

David,

Thanks for the feedback.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:04:48PM -0500, David Farning wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Martin Dengler
 mar...@martindengler.com wrote:
  * Should Soas2's software artifacts include non-Fedora (that is,
   non-upstream) bits or yum repositories?  For example: a) OLPC kernel
   (2.6.25); or b) Via wireless drivers?
 
 In order to succeed Sugar Labs must stay focused solely on the
 portions of the 'stack' from the learning platform and up.  If Sugar
 Labs gets that portion of the stack right, the distributions and
 hardware resellers will have incentive to make a complete
 hardware/distro/learning platform product.

Should I understand your answer to be a polite and
justification-included way of saying no?

  * Should an olpc-update-like mechanism be supported?
 
 Again, this is a distribution level issue. The various distribution
 have spent years developing update mechanisms.  Does Sugar Labs have a
 strong enough reason to reinvent that wheel?

I think this is a no, too, right?

 david

Martin


 FWIW, *oaS is fundamentally a disto level technology.  SoaS just
 happens to run Sugar as the UI.

Of course.  That's why I'm asking these questions, since we know SL
doesn't want to become a distro generator, but we're getting questions
that push us in those directions.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion

2009-04-24 Thread Martin Langhoff

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:46 AM, Martin Dengler
mar...@martindengler.com wrote:
 Sebastian and I had a discussion about SoaS builds being used on XOs.

Very interesting and timely discussion. The notes that follow are my
(hopefully well informed)  opinion only. No employers were involved or
harmed in the writing of this email.

Overall, my answer leans to yes, include anything that makes it
useful for users, within SL's resources. The game is one of removing
barriers to entry -- Joel Spolsky has written a bit about this wrt
Excel - the details differ but the strategic principle applies -
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog52.html

So I'd make a cost-benefit analysis of which of those barriers take
priority, and tackle those in order. Whatever time / people you have,
start at the top of the list and make it as far down as possible.

(Bah, you probably know all of this already :-) )

All the successful projects I've worked on (and many of the successful
tools we prefer) have been moderately good at their general purpose,
and excellent at demolishing barriers to entry.

 * Should an olpc-update-like mechanism be supported?

That's a more technical question :-) -- I don't know what the answer
is, but right now the notable facts in that area are:

 - Yum updates are not supported, and brittle
 - Anaconda updates are supported, but suck on netbook-type hw, and are brittle
 - olpc-update is a network hog, does not apply %pre %post hooks (etc
- it just sidesteps rpm execution) and eats up a lot of diskspace. But
it's not brittle.
 - BTRFS is in the horizon -- if it delivers on the promises made, its
snapshotting feature could solve the rpm/yum/anaconda brittleness.
OTOH, it's fashioned after ZFS, and ZFS is a humongous memory hog.

Note that when I say brittle, I mean that any glitch - like powerloss
- during an update leaves the system in mysterious state that is
likely to be unrecoverable -- from the PoV of the rpm toolchain
anyway. With a bit of knowledge of rpm internals, it would be possible
to write a tool to help the rpm infra to make sense of the state of
things, but it's a sizable project of its own...

cheers,



m
-- 
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 01:10, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:
 On 23 Apr 2009, at 22:37, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:

 Hi folks,

 after our most recent beta release, we've now a new image ready for
 you!
 This is the first of a number of snapshots on our road to another real
 SoaS release. Links to the iso image, as well as the archive with the
 appliance are provided below.

 http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/Soas2-200904231400.iso

 http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/appliances/soas2-20090423.zip

 Note that this is heavily 'work in progress'. Here are the news:

 * It's now again based again on Rawhide, as we move on.

 * The Labyrinth, Paint, Record and TamTam activities have been
 included.

 * Further news regarding an easier process of gathering feedback on
 system configurations is coming up. Please stay tuned!

 We've also a number of known issues in this snapshot:

 * etoys needs to be rebuilt to get sound working.

 * the tamtam activities still need to be fav'ed.

 Currently, early plannings for the upcoming release are taking place.
 Please give this image a try and report the issues you come along.

 Hi Sebastian, just some quick feedback.

 OK managed to boot the .vmdk here on a Mac (VirtualBox), seemed a
 little more painful than previous ones I've tried. Odd Sun licensing
 page and account/password user registration, then lot's of errors, but
 booted after that into the Gnome login and then into Sugar.

 Regarding activities, all I'm only seeing Pippy-25, Calculate-28,
 Jukebox-8, Chat-65, ImageViewer-7, Write-63, Terminal-25,
 TurtleArt-41, Browse-108, Read-66, Log-18, Etoys-100. Perhaps the
 screed of errors I got at first boot were failed bundle installs
 (sorry, was on auto pilot and just clicked past without reading)?

 Pippy launches but is still unusable as it's missing all buttons and
 all examples due to broken font size or layout.

 In the 800x600 default resolution I was presented with, activities
 like Write with more than 5 tabs, I didn't realise that tabs had no UI
 fallback if there was not enough horizontal space (vs. toolbar buttons
 that get a drop-down v menu with any overflow buttons). I'm sure
 this breaks a few other activities. FWIW 800x600 is too small for
 Sugar in many UI places, quite a fixer-upper job if serious intention
 is to play well at 800x600.

I suspect you are using SUGAR_SCALING=100 and need to use 72 instead.
Chema's patch at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/39 would have set it
for you automatically, but I would like to find a solution that took
into account both the screen size (in pixels) and the dpi. Maybe we
could calculate the size in mm and use that instead?

 TurtleArt fails to launch, log suggests issue with numpy: File /usr/
 lib/python2.6/site-packages/numpy/polynomial.py, line 18; from
 numpy.linalg import eigvals, listsq; ImoortError: No module named
 linalg (sorry couldn't copy paste the full traceback, some breakage in
 numpy.oldnumeric support?).

http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/797

 The other activities I saw present launched fine (though most were
 unpleasant at 800x600).

 Access to the network worked (surfed in Browse) and I could see folks
 on the default jabber server.

Thanks,

Tomeu

 Regards,
 --Gary

 Thanks and happy testing!
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion

2009-04-24 Thread Martin Langhoff

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Martin Dengler
mar...@martindengler.com wrote:
 Of course.  That's why I'm asking these questions, since we know SL
 doesn't want to become a distro generator, but we're getting questions
 that push us in those directions.

I didn't know SL was trying to avoid that role. But there is _nobody
else_ really looking at how (whether!) the integration works. That a
desktop works or doesn't work is a job of integration.

So somebody has to do it. If SL does it, SL has a chance to ensure the
quality. If SL doesn't do it, who will? Maybe SL should do it until a
focused team takes over the distro side?

cheers,



m
-- 
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:35:05AM +0200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Martin Dengler
 mar...@martindengler.com wrote:
  Of course.  That's why I'm asking these questions, since we know SL
  doesn't want to become a distro generator, but we're getting questions
  that push us in those directions.
 
 I didn't know SL was trying to avoid that role.

I am of course not an authoritative source.  But that is my
impression, yes (and it's bourne out by dfarning's reply, IMO).

 But there is _nobody
 else_ really looking at how (whether!) the integration works. That a
 desktop works or doesn't work is a job of integration.

Hence the reason for me asking the questions.  I think SoaS, as a
Fedora-derivative anyway, is the right place to do it.

 So somebody has to do it.

Indeed.  I don't think it's actually that big of a technical deal to
*do* the things I asked about, but *supporting* them is a pretty big
deal.  That's why I asked.

 If SL does it, SL has a chance to ensure the quality. If SL doesn't
 do it, who will? Maybe SL should do it until a focused team takes
 over the distro side?

Good subjects for discussion.

 cheers,
 m

Martin


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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion

Martin,

Thanks for your feeback.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:27:34AM +0200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
  * Should an olpc-update-like mechanism be supported?
 [olpc-update is good because it's more robust than the alternatives]

Robustness and the fact that hold down this key during boot to go
back to a known-good* state is a really nice feature.  This does make
me think olpc-update has a lot to add.  However

1) it's non-live-USB-specific (I was going to say XO-specific, but...)
2) it's going to require boot-time logic significantly more complex
than a distro's default
3) it's going to be useful only with run-time infrastructure (a server
to host the updates, etc.)

This might be a good place for for-profit organisations to get
involved for deployments that want to deliver updates and / or have a
more robust way to deliver Sugar.

 cheers,
 m

Martin



*  for all practical purposes


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Re: [Sugar-devel] record-61 on an xo?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 06:03, Erik Blankinship er...@mediamods.com wrote:
 [apologies if this is double posted]
 I am wondering if anyone has tested Record-61 on an xo-1?  Excited to try it
 out myself, but want to check if that is a targeted platform.
 I ask because a quick glance at the updates to the code (specifically
 glive.py) suggests to me that the xo-1 hardware might have a hard time
 recording video with synchronized audio.

Hi Erik,

I tried it some days ago and, though started, didn't worked at all. I
absolutely think it should work on the XO, but the only person that
has found time lately to work on it (Aleksey) has no access to the XO
hardware.

Would be awesome if you could find some time to work with Aleksey and
figure out a way for it to work in the XO as well.

Regards,

Tomeu


 Erik
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:39, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:35:05AM +0200, Martin Langhoff wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Martin Dengler
 mar...@martindengler.com wrote:
  Of course.  That's why I'm asking these questions, since we know SL
  doesn't want to become a distro generator, but we're getting questions
  that push us in those directions.

 I didn't know SL was trying to avoid that role.

 I am of course not an authoritative source.  But that is my
 impression, yes (and it's bourne out by dfarning's reply, IMO).

Well, David gave his personal opinion (that I happen to share), but I
would like to note that SLs is going in the opposite direction right
now by developing Soas. When we were supposed to be making Sugar
stable, we were instead doing integration work in Fedora 12, much
before fedora people started to test the live bits. So an organization
with half a dozen of active, non-payed developers ended up doing the
job of an organization with hundreds of developers.

It's normal that people think SugarLabs is shipping Soas and it
doesn't work on the XO, are they abandoning their only user base?.

I think we should be more careful in thinking where we spend the
resources or we won't be able to focus on what we think is important.
Also, as a community we should accept that the people that have done
task A in the past are the ones that can better appreciate the amount
of work A will take. We have right now lots of people saying what
should be done and how (and that's great!), but actually little people
doing it (not so great).

Similarly to how a software developer should double his initial
estimation of work for a task, someone who isn't a developer should
multiply by ten his own estimation. This also counts for software
maintainership, when a coder asks for some piece of code to be merged
in the mainstream sources, it's completely understandable that she
will underestimate the amount of work it will take to ship it and
maintain it afterwards. So please make an effort to understand the
maintainer's point of view.

Also think that the more busy developers are, the less time they will
have to participate in discussions like this one, so the chances of
bikeshedding increase. And I guess we want to be a community that does
awesome things, and not that only discusses awesome things.

Sorry about the rant, what I mean here is that what matters isn't if
SugarLabs officially declares that wants to replace OLPC or not. What
matters here is that whoever wishes to take up tasks left behind by
OLPC, can find here people that have the knowledge and the will to
help them reach their goals, and that work will end up helping lots of
real children.

Regards,

Tomeu


 But there is _nobody
 else_ really looking at how (whether!) the integration works. That a
 desktop works or doesn't work is a job of integration.

 Hence the reason for me asking the questions.  I think SoaS, as a
 Fedora-derivative anyway, is the right place to do it.

 So somebody has to do it.

 Indeed.  I don't think it's actually that big of a technical deal to
 *do* the things I asked about, but *supporting* them is a pretty big
 deal.  That's why I asked.

 If SL does it, SL has a chance to ensure the quality. If SL doesn't
 do it, who will? Maybe SL should do it until a focused team takes
 over the distro side?

 Good subjects for discussion.

 cheers,
 m

 Martin

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Calculate 30

2009-04-24 Thread Aleksey Lim

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:09:04AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 00:32, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:
  On 23 Apr 2009, at 22:47, Reinier Heeres wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  Are those things not mostly already present? Even on my XO with 767
  (F9), installing matplotlib 0.91.4-1.fc9 only drags in python-dateutil
  and pytz for a total download of 4.7MB. From a quick inspection I
  can't find any new dependencies (except for dejavu-sans-fonts (F11) or
  dejavu-fonts (F10)). Also, perhaps many of those things would be
  interesting to ship anyway (like numpy).
 
  FWIW: I think numpy is already in (replaced numeric if I remember).
 
  I don't have a running SoaS, but I think it would be useful to see how
  many new things are actually pulled in by installing this. Could
  anybody do this?
 
  Just yum installed python-matplotlib on Soas-beta:
 
         python-matplotlib 4Mb
         dejavu-fonts-common 61k
         dejavu-sans-fonts 2.4Mb
         fontpackages-filesystem 6.2k
         python-dateutil 249k
         pytz 37k
 
         Total 6.8M
 
  Not too painful I think.
 
 Yeah, and python-matplotlib has great educational value so I guess
 makes a lot of sense to add to the Sugar platform. Aleksey, what do
 you think?

Agree about python-matplotlib but it has several gui backends
and distributions are free to link python-matplotlib to some/most/all of
them. I think its not a good idea to link SugarPlatform to qt/wx/tk.

Anyway distros are free to add it to SP package - for example
SoaS (moreover it seems that matplotlib package from fedora requires only
gtk backend)

-- 
Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Calculate 30

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:32, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:09:04AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 00:32, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:
  On 23 Apr 2009, at 22:47, Reinier Heeres wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  Are those things not mostly already present? Even on my XO with 767
  (F9), installing matplotlib 0.91.4-1.fc9 only drags in python-dateutil
  and pytz for a total download of 4.7MB. From a quick inspection I
  can't find any new dependencies (except for dejavu-sans-fonts (F11) or
  dejavu-fonts (F10)). Also, perhaps many of those things would be
  interesting to ship anyway (like numpy).
 
  FWIW: I think numpy is already in (replaced numeric if I remember).
 
  I don't have a running SoaS, but I think it would be useful to see how
  many new things are actually pulled in by installing this. Could
  anybody do this?
 
  Just yum installed python-matplotlib on Soas-beta:
 
         python-matplotlib 4Mb
         dejavu-fonts-common 61k
         dejavu-sans-fonts 2.4Mb
         fontpackages-filesystem 6.2k
         python-dateutil 249k
         pytz 37k
 
         Total 6.8M
 
  Not too painful I think.

 Yeah, and python-matplotlib has great educational value so I guess
 makes a lot of sense to add to the Sugar platform. Aleksey, what do
 you think?

 Agree about python-matplotlib but it has several gui backends
 and distributions are free to link python-matplotlib to some/most/all of
 them. I think its not a good idea to link SugarPlatform to qt/wx/tk.

 Anyway distros are free to add it to SP package - for example
 SoaS (moreover it seems that matplotlib package from fedora requires only
 gtk backend)

True, maybe we should enter tickets for the distros that bundle all
backends together?

Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] record-61 on an xo?

2009-04-24 Thread Aleksey Lim

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:03:32AM -0400, Erik Blankinship wrote:
 [apologies if this is double posted]
 
 I am wondering if anyone has tested Record-61 on an xo-1?  Excited to try it
 out myself, but want to check if that is a targeted platform.
 
 I ask because a quick glance at the updates to the code (specifically
 glive.py) suggests to me that the xo-1 hardware might have a hard time
 recording video with synchronized audio.

Well, old code did only video encoding on-the-fly
I added audio encoding to use only one pass - it seems Record-61 doesn't
require aditional disk space only space for final .ogg(and aditional resources
to read/write to/from disk).

Anyway it would be nice if you tested it on XO.

-- 
Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion

2009-04-24 Thread Martin Langhoff

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 It's normal that people think SugarLabs is shipping Soas and it
 doesn't work on the XO, are they abandoning their only user base?.

 I think we should be more careful in thinking where we spend the
 resources or we won't be able to focus on what we think is important.

Overall, I have to agree it's a very tough spot. Most apps are pretty
self-contained, but desktops are all about integration, and have a ton
of surface (interdependencies).

 Similarly to how a software developer should double his initial

To go further, I'd say that for desktop work, bugfixing and
maintainership is 10x higher than in any conventional sw developers
are familiar with.

But enough talking about stuff I don't actually know about. I have a
server to build ;-)

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:47, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 It's normal that people think SugarLabs is shipping Soas and it
 doesn't work on the XO, are they abandoning their only user base?.

 I think we should be more careful in thinking where we spend the
 resources or we won't be able to focus on what we think is important.

 Overall, I have to agree it's a very tough spot. Most apps are pretty
 self-contained, but desktops are all about integration, and have a ton
 of surface (interdependencies).

Actually we have a chance of reducing that surface by trying to behave
as close as possible as recent GNOME versions. Other people's
integration work will save us work. It's when we try to innovate
further and try to be smarter than the other guys when we get into
trouble.

Regards,

Tomeu

 Similarly to how a software developer should double his initial

 To go further, I'd say that for desktop work, bugfixing and
 maintainership is 10x higher than in any conventional sw developers
 are familiar with.

 But enough talking about stuff I don't actually know about. I have a
 server to build ;-)

 cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Calculate 30

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 13:32, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:43:05PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:32, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:09:04AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 00:32, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:
   On 23 Apr 2009, at 22:47, Reinier Heeres wrote:
  
   Hi,
  
   Are those things not mostly already present? Even on my XO with 767
   (F9), installing matplotlib 0.91.4-1.fc9 only drags in python-dateutil
   and pytz for a total download of 4.7MB. From a quick inspection I
   can't find any new dependencies (except for dejavu-sans-fonts (F11) or
   dejavu-fonts (F10)). Also, perhaps many of those things would be
   interesting to ship anyway (like numpy).
  
   FWIW: I think numpy is already in (replaced numeric if I remember).
  
   I don't have a running SoaS, but I think it would be useful to see how
   many new things are actually pulled in by installing this. Could
   anybody do this?
  
   Just yum installed python-matplotlib on Soas-beta:
  
          python-matplotlib 4Mb
          dejavu-fonts-common 61k
          dejavu-sans-fonts 2.4Mb
          fontpackages-filesystem 6.2k
          python-dateutil 249k
          pytz 37k
  
          Total 6.8M
  
   Not too painful I think.
 
  Yeah, and python-matplotlib has great educational value so I guess
  makes a lot of sense to add to the Sugar platform. Aleksey, what do
  you think?
 
  Agree about python-matplotlib but it has several gui backends
  and distributions are free to link python-matplotlib to some/most/all of
  them. I think its not a good idea to link SugarPlatform to qt/wx/tk.
 
  Anyway distros are free to add it to SP package - for example
  SoaS (moreover it seems that matplotlib package from fedora requires only
  gtk backend)

 True, maybe we should enter tickets for the distros that bundle all
 backends together?

 I've creted a bug for Mandriva
 but I guess its a bit late for SP-0.84

Yeah, I guess it can get into SP-0.86 and just make sure for now that
Soas and other distros where we have more control have matplotlib in.

Thanks,

Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] record-61 on an xo?

2009-04-24 Thread Walter Bender

I tried in on an XO as well... no luck as per the tickets I had filed.

-walter

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:03:32AM -0400, Erik Blankinship wrote:
 [apologies if this is double posted]

 I am wondering if anyone has tested Record-61 on an xo-1?  Excited to try it
 out myself, but want to check if that is a targeted platform.

 I ask because a quick glance at the updates to the code (specifically
 glive.py) suggests to me that the xo-1 hardware might have a hard time
 recording video with synchronized audio.

 Well, old code did only video encoding on-the-fly
 I added audio encoding to use only one pass - it seems Record-61 doesn't
 require aditional disk space only space for final .ogg(and aditional resources
 to read/write to/from disk).

 Anyway it would be nice if you tested it on XO.

 --
 Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity for proof of concept [KARMA]

2009-04-24 Thread Bert Freudenberg



On 24.04.2009, at 11:10, roshan karki wrote:


Hello,

I'm Roshan Karki. Bryan must have told you about the activity for  
proof of concept. Here, I'm trying to tell you more about the  
activity and the reason for choosing it.


You can get the activity from 
http://hg.olenepal.org/3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf/

The activity contains two lesson part. Lesson part usually contains  
simple animation or simple exercise for which a student isn't  
judged. This activity has an interactive lesson.


The exercise part in this activity is also different from other  
activities. This exercise has mixture of options like typing correct  
answer, clicking correct answer and so on. Normally we have only one  
kind of mechanism to choose correct answer.


One thing missing in this exercise is the correct and incorrect  
sound that plays as the user submits the answer.


While in lesson part, you can also play game. The game icon is at  
right corner.


Please put forward  your questions and confusions.



I could not figure out how to run it. Here's what I got after  
downloading:


3_Maths_Quadrilatera_1_swf_L.fla
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf.jpg
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_B.fla
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_B.swf
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_E.fla
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_E.swf
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_L.swf
Excercise.as
ExerciseStarting.as
Games
GeoBoard.as
LessonPlan.swf
LessonStarting.as
Line.as
LineAddedEvent.as
Stick.as
TeacherNotes.pdf
TeacherNotes.swf
config.xml
lessonPlan.pdf


- Bert -


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[Sugar-devel] Activity for proof of concept [KARMA]

2009-04-24 Thread roshan karki

Hello,

I'm Roshan Karki. Bryan must have told you about the activity for proof of
concept. Here, I'm trying to tell you more about the activity and the reason
for choosing it.

You can get the activity from
http://hg.olenepal.org/3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf/

The activity contains two lesson part. Lesson part usually contains simple
animation or simple exercise for which a student isn't judged. This activity
has an interactive lesson.

The exercise part in this activity is also different from other activities.
This exercise has mixture of options like typing correct answer, clicking
correct answer and so on. Normally we have only one kind of mechanism to
choose correct answer.

One thing missing in this exercise is the correct and incorrect sound
that plays as the user submits the answer.

While in lesson part, you can also play game. The game icon is at right
corner.

Please put forward  your questions and confusions.

Lastly thank you for doing this.

Regards,
Roshan Karki
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Calculate 30

2009-04-24 Thread Aleksey Lim

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:43:05PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:32, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:09:04AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 00:32, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:
   On 23 Apr 2009, at 22:47, Reinier Heeres wrote:
  
   Hi,
  
   Are those things not mostly already present? Even on my XO with 767
   (F9), installing matplotlib 0.91.4-1.fc9 only drags in python-dateutil
   and pytz for a total download of 4.7MB. From a quick inspection I
   can't find any new dependencies (except for dejavu-sans-fonts (F11) or
   dejavu-fonts (F10)). Also, perhaps many of those things would be
   interesting to ship anyway (like numpy).
  
   FWIW: I think numpy is already in (replaced numeric if I remember).
  
   I don't have a running SoaS, but I think it would be useful to see how
   many new things are actually pulled in by installing this. Could
   anybody do this?
  
   Just yum installed python-matplotlib on Soas-beta:
  
          python-matplotlib 4Mb
          dejavu-fonts-common 61k
          dejavu-sans-fonts 2.4Mb
          fontpackages-filesystem 6.2k
          python-dateutil 249k
          pytz 37k
  
          Total 6.8M
  
   Not too painful I think.
 
  Yeah, and python-matplotlib has great educational value so I guess
  makes a lot of sense to add to the Sugar platform. Aleksey, what do
  you think?
 
  Agree about python-matplotlib but it has several gui backends
  and distributions are free to link python-matplotlib to some/most/all of
  them. I think its not a good idea to link SugarPlatform to qt/wx/tk.
 
  Anyway distros are free to add it to SP package - for example
  SoaS (moreover it seems that matplotlib package from fedora requires only
  gtk backend)
 
 True, maybe we should enter tickets for the distros that bundle all
 backends together?

I've creted a bug for Mandriva
but I guess its a bit late for SP-0.84

-- 
Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] record-61 on an xo?

2009-04-24 Thread Erik Blankinship

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:

 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:03:32AM -0400, Erik Blankinship wrote:
  [apologies if this is double posted]
 
  I am wondering if anyone has tested Record-61 on an xo-1?  Excited to try
 it
  out myself, but want to check if that is a targeted platform.
 
  I ask because a quick glance at the updates to the code (specifically
  glive.py) suggests to me that the xo-1 hardware might have a hard time
  recording video with synchronized audio.

 Well, old code did only video encoding on-the-fly
 I added audio encoding to use only one pass -


The xo-1 did not seem to have the processing power to successfully encode
video and audio simultaneously.  The resulting videos were very choppy when
played back (both video and audio).

The xo-1 also did not have enough drive space (or speed?) to hold large
amounts of uncompressed video.

Therefore, the video was encoded on-the-fly, and the audio was saved
directly to disk (uncompressed audio takes up less space than the
uncompressed video).

The final step was to mux and encode the audio into one file.

I suspect a similar solution for video with synchronized audio might be
required for other netbooks with limited hardware resources.

I am not sure how the sugar team plans to target activities to different
platforms.

   - download record-notebook-61.xo or record-netbook-61.xo ?
   - activity-authors query the system for flags about the hardware's
   capabilities and in the case of record use a different set of pipelines?

Erik



 it seems Record-61 doesn't
 require aditional disk space only space for final .ogg(and aditional
 resources
 to read/write to/from disk).

 Anyway it would be nice if you tested it on XO.

 --
 Aleksey

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[Sugar-devel] [SoaS] A Hardware Effort: Please Help!

2009-04-24 Thread Sebastian Dziallas

Hi everybody,

we are now going to get a new hardware effort off the ground, to get 
some better QA done. This means that we ask you to submit the system 
specs of the machines you test SoaS - and that's actually pretty easy:

* Just grab the latest snapshot (please don't use the beta!) from here: 
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-April/013984.html

* Put it on your key and boot! Open the terminal.

* Now become root and type the following command: smoltSendProfile

* Once you agreed to submit your information, you'll be given a link to 
your hardware profile, as well as an admin password. You'll need those!

Now please go to this wiki page (where you can also find these 
instructions) and add yourself together with the link to your profile: 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Hardware

This really helps us to get some feedback concerning the hardware that 
is used with SoaS. By the way, once you login on that profile page, you 
can also rate your experience with SoaS.

That's basically it. Doesn't sound too hard, hu? Please give it a try!
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

On 24 Apr 2009, at 09:31, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:

 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 01:10, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com  
 wrote:
 On 23 Apr 2009, at 22:37, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:

 Hi folks,

 after our most recent beta release, we've now a new image ready for
 you!
 This is the first of a number of snapshots on our road to another  
 real
 SoaS release. Links to the iso image, as well as the archive with  
 the
 appliance are provided below.

 http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/ 
 Soas2-200904231400.iso

 http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/appliances/soas2-20090423.zip

 Note that this is heavily 'work in progress'. Here are the news:

 * It's now again based again on Rawhide, as we move on.

 * The Labyrinth, Paint, Record and TamTam activities have been
 included.

 * Further news regarding an easier process of gathering feedback on
 system configurations is coming up. Please stay tuned!

 We've also a number of known issues in this snapshot:

 * etoys needs to be rebuilt to get sound working.

 * the tamtam activities still need to be fav'ed.

 Currently, early plannings for the upcoming release are taking  
 place.
 Please give this image a try and report the issues you come along.

 Hi Sebastian, just some quick feedback.

 OK managed to boot the .vmdk here on a Mac (VirtualBox), seemed a
 little more painful than previous ones I've tried. Odd Sun licensing
 page and account/password user registration, then lot's of errors,  
 but
 booted after that into the Gnome login and then into Sugar.

 Regarding activities, all I'm only seeing Pippy-25, Calculate-28,
 Jukebox-8, Chat-65, ImageViewer-7, Write-63, Terminal-25,
 TurtleArt-41, Browse-108, Read-66, Log-18, Etoys-100. Perhaps the
 screed of errors I got at first boot were failed bundle installs
 (sorry, was on auto pilot and just clicked past without reading)?

 Pippy launches but is still unusable as it's missing all buttons and
 all examples due to broken font size or layout.

 In the 800x600 default resolution I was presented with, activities
 like Write with more than 5 tabs, I didn't realise that tabs had no  
 UI
 fallback if there was not enough horizontal space (vs. toolbar  
 buttons
 that get a drop-down v menu with any overflow buttons). I'm sure
 this breaks a few other activities. FWIW 800x600 is too small for
 Sugar in many UI places, quite a fixer-upper job if serious intention
 is to play well at 800x600.

 I suspect you are using SUGAR_SCALING=100 and need to use 72 instead.
 Chema's patch at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/39 would have set it
 for you automatically, but I would like to find a solution that took
 into account both the screen size (in pixels) and the dpi. Maybe we
 could calculate the size in mm and use that instead?

Yea just checked, the env is SUGAR_SCALING=100

 TurtleArt fails to launch, log suggests issue with numpy: File /usr/
 lib/python2.6/site-packages/numpy/polynomial.py, line 18; from
 numpy.linalg import eigvals, listsq; ImoortError: No module named
 linalg (sorry couldn't copy paste the full traceback, some breakage  
 in
 numpy.oldnumeric support?).

 http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/797

Any pointers to the file where SUGAR_SCALING is being set? Wanted to  
manually tweak and try at 72, but don't know the start-up sequence  
files (the patch mentions sugar.in but that file doesn't seem to exist  
in a real build, poking about xinitrc/Xsessions/Xclients and the /etc/ 
init.d I came up blank).

Regards,
--Gary

 The other activities I saw present launched fine (though most were
 unpleasant at 800x600).

 Access to the network worked (surfed in Browse) and I could see folks
 on the default jabber server.

 Thanks,

 Tomeu

 Regards,
 --Gary

 Thanks and happy testing!
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

2009-04-24 Thread Carol Farlow Lerche

In general, as root use:

# find / -type f -exec grep -nH 'SUGAR_SCALING' {} \;

Supplant SUGAR_SCALING with any string you want to look for.  One doesn't
need the single quotes in this case, but if the string had shell sensitive
characters it would alleviate the need to escape them.  Also, instead of
-nH, use -nHi to be case insensitive.  See the grep man page to find out
about regular expression patterns, and the find manual for constraining the
files that will be examined.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.comwrote:

 On 24 Apr 2009, at 09:31, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:

  On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 01:10, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com
  wrote:
  On 23 Apr 2009, at 22:37, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
 
  Hi folks,
 
  after our most recent beta release, we've now a new image ready for
  you!
  This is the first of a number of snapshots on our road to another
  real
  SoaS release. Links to the iso image, as well as the archive with
  the
  appliance are provided below.
 
  http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/
  Soas2-200904231400.iso
 
  http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/appliances/soas2-20090423.zip
 
  Note that this is heavily 'work in progress'. Here are the news:
 
  * It's now again based again on Rawhide, as we move on.
 
  * The Labyrinth, Paint, Record and TamTam activities have been
  included.
 
  * Further news regarding an easier process of gathering feedback on
  system configurations is coming up. Please stay tuned!
 
  We've also a number of known issues in this snapshot:
 
  * etoys needs to be rebuilt to get sound working.
 
  * the tamtam activities still need to be fav'ed.
 
  Currently, early plannings for the upcoming release are taking
  place.
  Please give this image a try and report the issues you come along.
 
  Hi Sebastian, just some quick feedback.
 
  OK managed to boot the .vmdk here on a Mac (VirtualBox), seemed a
  little more painful than previous ones I've tried. Odd Sun licensing
  page and account/password user registration, then lot's of errors,
  but
  booted after that into the Gnome login and then into Sugar.
 
  Regarding activities, all I'm only seeing Pippy-25, Calculate-28,
  Jukebox-8, Chat-65, ImageViewer-7, Write-63, Terminal-25,
  TurtleArt-41, Browse-108, Read-66, Log-18, Etoys-100. Perhaps the
  screed of errors I got at first boot were failed bundle installs
  (sorry, was on auto pilot and just clicked past without reading)?
 
  Pippy launches but is still unusable as it's missing all buttons and
  all examples due to broken font size or layout.
 
  In the 800x600 default resolution I was presented with, activities
  like Write with more than 5 tabs, I didn't realise that tabs had no
  UI
  fallback if there was not enough horizontal space (vs. toolbar
  buttons
  that get a drop-down v menu with any overflow buttons). I'm sure
  this breaks a few other activities. FWIW 800x600 is too small for
  Sugar in many UI places, quite a fixer-upper job if serious intention
  is to play well at 800x600.
 
  I suspect you are using SUGAR_SCALING=100 and need to use 72 instead.
  Chema's patch at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/39 would have set it
  for you automatically, but I would like to find a solution that took
  into account both the screen size (in pixels) and the dpi. Maybe we
  could calculate the size in mm and use that instead?

 Yea just checked, the env is SUGAR_SCALING=100

  TurtleArt fails to launch, log suggests issue with numpy: File /usr/
  lib/python2.6/site-packages/numpy/polynomial.py, line 18; from
  numpy.linalg import eigvals, listsq; ImoortError: No module named
  linalg (sorry couldn't copy paste the full traceback, some breakage
  in
  numpy.oldnumeric support?).
 
  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/797

 Any pointers to the file where SUGAR_SCALING is being set? Wanted to
 manually tweak and try at 72, but don't know the start-up sequence
 files (the patch mentions sugar.in but that file doesn't seem to exist
 in a real build, poking about xinitrc/Xsessions/Xclients and the /etc/
 init.d I came up blank).

 Regards,
 --Gary

  The other activities I saw present launched fine (though most were
  unpleasant at 800x600).
 
  Access to the network worked (surfed in Browse) and I could see folks
  on the default jabber server.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Tomeu
 
  Regards,
  --Gary
 
  Thanks and happy testing!
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] A Hardware Effort: Please Help!

2009-04-24 Thread David Farning

Hardware testing might be a good thing to do at Sugar gatherings such
as Sugar Camp Europe next month.  Invite participates to bring their
favorite laptop and see if they can get it to work in that controlled
environment.

This would promote a number of on-ramp activities:
Shift the focus from talking about Sugar to using and testing Sugar.
Introduce the notion of filing bug against failed equipment.
Bring bug triage team activities to the forefront.

david

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote:
 Hi everybody,

 we are now going to get a new hardware effort off the ground, to get
 some better QA done. This means that we ask you to submit the system
 specs of the machines you test SoaS - and that's actually pretty easy:

 * Just grab the latest snapshot (please don't use the beta!) from here:
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-April/013984.html

 * Put it on your key and boot! Open the terminal.

 * Now become root and type the following command: smoltSendProfile

 * Once you agreed to submit your information, you'll be given a link to
 your hardware profile, as well as an admin password. You'll need those!

 Now please go to this wiki page (where you can also find these
 instructions) and add yourself together with the link to your profile:
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Hardware

 This really helps us to get some feedback concerning the hardware that
 is used with SoaS. By the way, once you login on that profile page, you
 can also rate your experience with SoaS.

 That's basically it. Doesn't sound too hard, hu? Please give it a try!
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

On 24 Apr 2009, at 19:35, Carol Farlow Lerche wrote:

 In general, as root use:

 # find / -type f -exec grep -nH 'SUGAR_SCALING' {} \;

Thanks Carol. I had tried something similar before emailing, but it  
just hung after a long wait, just retried with the below and it found  
a few occurrences before locking up with a *** glibc detected ***  
find: malloc() memory corruption (fast): 0x08df8ce8 ***, though it did  
return a couple of files before stopping (/usr/lib/python2.6/site- 
packages/sugar/graphics/style and /usr/bin/sugar look hopeful).

Regards,
--Gary

 Supplant SUGAR_SCALING with any string you want to look for.  One  
 doesn't need the single quotes in this case, but if the string had  
 shell sensitive characters it would alleviate the need to escape  
 them.  Also, instead of -nH, use -nHi to be case insensitive.  See  
 the grep man page to find out about regular expression patterns, and  
 the find manual for constraining the files that will be examined.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

I think you're looking for /home/liveuser/.Xclients:

http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/soas/repos/mainline/blobs/master/sugar.ks#line56

Martin



pgpiJqKYCrsXk.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

On 24 Apr 2009, at 21:56, Martin Dengler wrote:

 I think you're looking for /home/liveuser/.Xclients:

 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/soas/repos/mainline/blobs/master/sugar.ks#line56

Thanks Martin, that's what I was looking for :-) but a live  
soas2-20090423.vmdk doesn't seem to have that . file. FWIW the vmdk  
seems to have some sun license and user account creation process in  
first boot that generates a custom user (your choice of name).

Turns out to be a shell script that pre-warms things for running sugar- 
session:

/usr/bin/sugar

Tomeu: Setting SUGAR_SCALING=72 for an 800x600 resolution did the  
trick, looking much better :-)

Regards,
--Gary

 Martin

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity for proof of concept [KARMA]

2009-04-24 Thread Felipe López Toledo

Roshan Karki, thanks for writing,

my first question is how to run it?
I load the swf files on Mozilla FIrefox 3.0.3 and I got this:
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_B.swf - a blue screen
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_E.swf - a really low yellow screen?
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_L.swf - a white screen

I was trying with
http://www.pustakalaya.org/external-content/static/epaath/E-Paath-2.activity/activity/Activity/MenuStage.html

but I got time out error

thanks ind advance.

Regards
felipe

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:28 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote:

On 24.04.2009, at 11:10, roshan karki wrote:

Hello,

I'm Roshan Karki. Bryan must have told you about the activity for proof of
concept. Here, I'm trying to tell you more about the activity and the reason
for choosing it.

You can get the activity from
http://hg.olenepal.org/3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf/

The activity contains two lesson part. Lesson part usually contains simple
animation or simple exercise for which a student isn't judged. This activity
has an interactive lesson.

The exercise part in this activity is also different from other activities.
This exercise has mixture of options like typing correct answer, clicking
correct answer and so on. Normally we have only one kind of mechanism to
choose correct answer.

One thing missing in this exercise is the correct and incorrect sound
that plays as the user submits the answer.

While in lesson part, you can also play game. The game icon is at right
corner.

Please put forward your questions and confusions.

I could not figure out how to run it. Here's what I got after downloading:

3_Maths_Quadrilatera_1_swf_L.fla
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf.jpg
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_B.fla
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_B.swf
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_E.fla
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_E.swf
3_Maths_Quadrilateral_1_swf_L.swf
Excercise.as
ExerciseStarting.as
Games
GeoBoard.as
LessonPlan.swf
LessonStarting.as
Line.as
LineAddedEvent.as
Stick.as
TeacherNotes.pdf
TeacherNotes.swf
config.xml
lessonPlan.pdf

- Bert -

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:29:21PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
 On 24 Apr 2009, at 21:56, Martin Dengler wrote:

 I think you're looking for /home/liveuser/.Xclients:

 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/soas/repos/mainline/blobs/master/sugar.ks#line56

 Thanks Martin, that's what I was looking for :-) but a live  
 soas2-20090423.vmdk doesn't seem to have that . file.

Did you check /etc/init.d/livesys ?  That's the file by which
/home/liveuser/.Xclients is created.  It was a bit ambiguous whether
you were working from the home dir (running system) or not...

 FWIW the vmdk seems to have some sun license and user account
 creation process in first boot that generates a custom user (your
 choice of name).

Interesting -- sounds pretty different to the livesys stuff, then.

 Turns out to be a shell script that pre-warms things for running sugar- 
 session:

   /usr/bin/sugar

Thanks for the tip.

 Martin

 Regards,
 --Gary

Martin



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Resuming Snapshot Creation

On 25 Apr 2009, at 01:39, Martin Dengler wrote:

 On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:29:21PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
 On 24 Apr 2009, at 21:56, Martin Dengler wrote:

 I think you're looking for /home/liveuser/.Xclients:

 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/soas/repos/mainline/blobs/master/sugar.ks#line56

 Thanks Martin, that's what I was looking for :-) but a live
 soas2-20090423.vmdk doesn't seem to have that . file.

 Did you check /etc/init.d/livesys ?  That's the file by which
 /home/liveuser/.Xclients is created.  It was a bit ambiguous whether
 you were working from the home dir (running system) or not...

Thanks for the hint, but yea, I'd greped through the /etc/init.d  
scripts and found nothing Sugary going on in there. FWIW, there's no  
livesys script. This may well be something new related to vmdk that's  
being used here, I've seen vdi images before and even just booted from  
the iso, as is (for quick tests), but first time I've seen/tried a vmdk.

--Gary

 FWIW the vmdk seems to have some sun license and user account
 creation process in first boot that generates a custom user (your
 choice of name).

 Interesting -- sounds pretty different to the livesys stuff, then.

 Turns out to be a shell script that pre-warms things for running  
 sugar-
 session:

  /usr/bin/sugar

 Thanks for the tip.

 Martin

 Regards,
 --Gary

 Martin


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[Sugar-devel] Advanced search on ASLO

2009-04-24 Thread Josh Williams

Hey everyone,

I've finally started a style sheet for ASLO. You can see what I have so 
far at http://activities-devel.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/ . It's not 
much, but I'm moving forward.

Just wondering if there was a consensus to ditch the advanced search 
options? I think it might be a good idea for the sake of simplicity and 
ease of use for kids.

However, I don't know if it's something some users actually need. I 
think at the very least within categories should be removed even if we 
do keep the advanced options.

Any thoughts?
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[Sugar-devel] advanced search image

2009-04-24 Thread Josh Williams


It's better to attach. Just so you know what I'm talking about.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Advanced search on ASLO