Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[James Cameron]

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 08:02:20PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote:
> OK, this was the missing part of the puzzle. You're running IRC
> clients on several different computers that don't share the logs in
> any way, so naturally you prefer it to be kept in a central, public
> place (i.e. a web site since IRC doesn't support server-side storage).

For interest, on an OLPC channel several of us have started using
quassel.  This provides logs, backlog while you are absent, and
connections from different computers.  Though I've not yet needed to
verify simultaneous connections.

You do need to place a quassel server in the cloud somewhere.

-- 
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http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[Sascha Silbe]

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 08:29:58AM -0500, Jeff Elkner wrote:


I'm really not interested in beating a dead horse, [...]
I deliberately focussed on your workflow "issue" exactly to avoid that. 
:)


[...], but I have 4 different computers on which I normally work, plus 
I work on other people's computers when I travel.  Having stuff in the 
cloud is simply easier for me.
OK, this was the missing part of the puzzle. You're running IRC clients 
on several different computers that don't share the logs in any way, so 
naturally you prefer it to be kept in a central, public place (i.e. a 
web site since IRC doesn't support server-side storage).
Since I keep the IRC logs (and a whole lot of other stuff) in sync using 
unison [1] and often work "offline" I naturally prefer the logs to be 
kept locally.


Thanks, I do understand your needs better now! :-|


[1] http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/

CU Sascha

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[Jeff Elkner]

I'm really not interested in beating a dead horse, Sacha, so after
making my case I'm more than happy to drop this (though I will
continue not to use #sugar for any discussions I would want to save if
it is not logged).

The reason that I find auto logging saves me work is the same reason
I'm now completely in love with Google docs.  Call it attention
deficit disorder or whatever, but I have 4 different computers on
which I normally work, plus I work on other people's computers when I
travel.  Having stuff in the cloud is simply easier for me.  I don't
have to think about it.  It is just there when I need it.  I won't
have the logs around like you do.  I will forget to store them, forget
what I called them when I do store them, or have deleted them in an
attempt to reduce the amount of data I'm storing locally, etc.

Auto logging in no way prevents you from keeping your own, but it
doesn't require me to.

jeff

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:44 AM, Sascha Silbe
 wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 09:25:22PM -0500, Jeff Elkner wrote:
>
>> I'm glad logging locally works for you, Dave, but it doesn't work for
>> me.  I really need less things to do, not more ;-)
>
> How is logging locally causing more work for you? Do you use an IRC client
> that cannot be told to always log specific/all channels? Or is searching in
> your usual computing environment more inconvenient than on some web page?
> For me local logs are much easier to use/search, so I'm trying to figure out
> why it's the other way round for you.
>
> CU Sascha
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[Luke Faraone]

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 21:25, Jeff Elkner  wrote:

> Can I just use #sugar-meeting, then, instead of #sugar?  That would work
> for me.
>

#sugar-meeting is for just that, meetings. Things outside of meetings are
not recorded.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[Jeff Elkner]

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Dave Bauer  wrote:
> Apparenly it was discussed. Some people do not like publicly available logs.
> I log all my IRC channels locally. This is handy because I can use desktop
> search to find something. I can't point someone else to them, but I suppose
> I could email part of it to someone.
>
> Dave

I'm glad logging locally works for you, Dave, but it doesn't work for
me.  I really need less things to do, not more ;-)

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Luke Faraone  wrote:
>> Is there a good reason why we don't auto log the channel?
>
> We've talked this subject practically to death.
> See http://www.mail-archive.com/i...@lists.sugarlabs.org/msg06656.html.
> (hint: the thread you want is here)
> Consensus has been "no" for a variety of reasons, which would be redundant
> to enumerate here once again.
> We already log meetings in #sugar-meeting, but the policy for #sugar is
> against it.

Can I just use #sugar-meeting, then, instead of #sugar?  That would work for me.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[Dave Bauer]

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Jeff Elkner  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> II have two personality quirks that often get in my way: I have a
> great deal of trouble multitasking, and I would loose my head were it
> not attached to my shoulders.  What I need from a computer are tools
> that complement my limitations, and help me be more productive.  irc
> can be such a tool, particularly in combination with logging.
>
> I'm a regular user on #schooltool.  I go there to ask questions about
> schooltool, and participate there in on-line meetings about the
> development of schooltool.  I don't worry about trying to take notes
> or record what happens on the channel, that all happens
> *automatically*.  If I think later... "Oh, yeah, we discussed that
> back in the first week in October."  No problem, just go here:
> http://schooltool.pov.lt/irclogs/ and look through the dates around
> the time I remember the meeting happening.
>
> I was surprised to find out that there was no logging on #sugar, and
> it keeps me from wanting to hold any real discussions on the channel.
> I go there to find if folks are around, then ask them to meet me on
> google talk, so that I can automatically get a log of what we discuss.
>  It would like to make most of these conversations available to the
> rest of the community, but I don't have the time to log and publish
> them myself.
>
> Is there a good reason why we don't auto log the channel?
>
>
Apparenly it was discussed. Some people do not like publicly available logs.
I log all my IRC channels locally. This is handy because I can use desktop
search to find something. I can't point someone else to them, but I suppose
I could email part of it to someone.

Dave


> jeff elkner
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[Luke Faraone]

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 17:54, Jeff Elkner  wrote:

> Is there a good reason why we don't auto log the channel?
>

We've talked this subject practically to death. See
http://www.mail-archive.com/i...@lists.sugarlabs.org/msg06656.html. (hint:
the thread you want is
here
)

Consensus has been "no" for a variety of reasons, which would be redundant
to enumerate here once again.

We already log meetings  in #sugar-meeting,
but the policy for #sugar is against it.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.

[Tim McNamara]

2010/1/13 Jeff Elkner j...@elkner.net

>  It would like to make most of these conversations available to the
> rest of the community, but I don't have the time to log and publish
> them myself.
>
> +1 for a log bot


> Is there a good reason why we don't auto log the channel?
>
> jeff elkner
> ___
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> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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