Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign) [Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 55]
The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. Although the hardware specs are a good target for Sugar3, I believe that suggesting a really small box with 5 cables connected to it to showcase a K-9 educational platform, may retract from the feasibility and thoroughness of the project. A decent rooted tablet (ie Nexus 7) running Sugar on top of Linux, even if the performance is not the best, would be much more catchy and maybe suggestive of a Sugar-on-Android to come. You can still do the CuBox thing but not for journalists and teachers. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). This is certainly a good idea but it must work as advertised ie in 1 click after the VM software is installed. I would only add Parallels-VM/VMware appliances since may already be present in these closed OSs and can really provide a single click to Sugar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign) [Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 55]
I don't think we should be suggestive of Sugar on a tablet until we have a minimally realistic idea of how to get it done. There is enough talk about this Sugar-on-Android which is not coming... :) Though you are right that the Cubox-i might send the wrong message. I was seeing it more like a vehicle for the software but, yeah, the hardware won't be ignored. It would a better way to demo to developers or possible hardware partners. Another idea. Sugar in a web browser. It would be the easiest to get running for the users and it's consistent with the current direction of development. Lots of work left to have enough activities for it to be a compelling experience... Maybe virtualized Sugar is the short term goal, Sugar in a web browser is the long term one. On Friday, 8 November 2013, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. Although the hardware specs are a good target for Sugar3, I believe that suggesting a really small box with 5 cables connected to it to showcase a K-9 educational platform, may retract from the feasibility and thoroughness of the project. A decent rooted tablet (ie Nexus 7) running Sugar on top of Linux, even if the performance is not the best, would be much more catchy and maybe suggestive of a Sugar-on-Android to come. You can still do the CuBox thing but not for journalists and teachers. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). This is certainly a good idea but it must work as advertised ie in 1 click after the VM software is installed. I would only add Parallels-VM/VMware appliances since may already be present in these closed OSs and can really provide a single click to Sugar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org javascript:; http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Daniel Narvaez ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign) [Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 55]
On 11/08/2013 03:28 AM, Daniel Narvaez wrote: I don't think we should be suggestive of Sugar on a tablet until we have a minimally realistic idea of how to get it done. There is enough talk about this Sugar-on-Android which is not coming... :) Though you are right that the Cubox-i might send the wrong message. I was seeing it more like a vehicle for the software but, yeah, the hardware won't be ignored. It would a better way to demo to developers or possible hardware partners. Another idea. Sugar in a web browser. It would be the easiest to get running for the users and it's consistent with the current direction of development. Lots of work left to have enough activities for it to be a compelling experience... Maybe virtualized Sugar is the short term goal,* Sugar in a web browser is the long term one. *Many of these are already available here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Sugar-in-Virtualization http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Virtual_machines There are many distributions where sugar is supported: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit#Linux_distributions_where_Sugar_is_available Tom Gilliard satellit on #sugar, #schoolserver, and #fedora-qa on freenode IRC On Friday, 8 November 2013, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. Although the hardware specs are a good target for Sugar3, I believe that suggesting a really small box with 5 cables connected to it to showcase a K-9 educational platform, may retract from the feasibility and thoroughness of the project. A decent rooted tablet (ie Nexus 7) running Sugar on top of Linux, even if the performance is not the best, would be much more catchy and maybe suggestive of a Sugar-on-Android to come. You can still do the CuBox thing but not for journalists and teachers. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). This is certainly a good idea but it must work as advertised ie in 1 click after the VM software is installed. I would only add Parallels-VM/VMware appliances since may already be present in these closed OSs and can really provide a single click to Sugar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org javascript:; http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Daniel Narvaez ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign) [Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 55]
On Fri, 2013-11-08 at 12:28 +0100, Daniel Narvaez wrote: I don't think we should be suggestive of Sugar on a tablet until we have a minimally realistic idea of how to get it done. There is enough talk about this Sugar-on-Android which is not coming... :) Though you are right that the Cubox-i might send the wrong message. I was seeing it more like a vehicle for the software but, yeah, the hardware won't be ignored. It would a better way to demo to developers or possible hardware partners. Another idea. Sugar in a web browser. It would be the easiest to get running for the users and it's consistent with the current direction of development. Lots of work left to have enough activities for it to be a compelling experience... Maybe virtualized Sugar is the short term goal, Sugar in a web browser is the long term one. On Friday, 8 November 2013, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. Although the hardware specs are a good target for Sugar3, I believe that suggesting a really small box with 5 cables connected to it to showcase a K-9 educational platform, may retract from the feasibility and thoroughness of the project. Agreed, but when presented as Sugar_on_a_Set_Top_Box, this is not so unusual. Screwed to the back of a monitor, with power from the monitor, and wifi, the wires can be reduced to zero. Iain Brown Douglas A decent rooted tablet (ie Nexus 7) running Sugar on top of Linux, even if the performance is not the best, would be much more catchy and maybe suggestive of a Sugar-on-Android to come. You can still do the CuBox thing but not for journalists and teachers. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). This is certainly a good idea but it must work as advertised ie in 1 click after the VM software is installed. I would only add Parallels-VM/VMware appliances since may already be present in these closed OSs and can really provide a single click to Sugar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Daniel Narvaez ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
I knew it's possible to run Sugar in VirtualBox. I didn't know we was
producing vmdk images, I remember Peter was opposed to that. With those
images, is the installation one-click (reasonably close to it) assuming you
have virtualbox already installed?
The wiki page is terribly complicated...
On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is
multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac)
The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free redistribution
for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a single installer,
ideal for our needs.
In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing
partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner.
Sean
1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox
2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox
2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard
gonz...@laptop.orgjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'gonz...@laptop.org');
wrote:
At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar.
Gonzalo
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez
dwnarv...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'dwnarv...@gmail.com');
wrote:
On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to
know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need
to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and
journalists.
I can think of a couple of approaches
* Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of
those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with
SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option.
* Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X.
Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process
would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user
1 Install virtualbox
2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the
appliance).
Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete,
realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for
3.102.
--
Daniel Narvaez
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but it
feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance
wise.
From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's just
downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on a
bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really
sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really?
On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is
multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac)
The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free redistribution
for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a single installer,
ideal for our needs.
In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing
partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner.
Sean
1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox
2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox
2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard
gonz...@laptop.orgjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'gonz...@laptop.org');
wrote:
At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar.
Gonzalo
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez
dwnarv...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'dwnarv...@gmail.com');
wrote:
On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to
know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need
to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and
journalists.
I can think of a couple of approaches
* Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of
those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with
SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option.
* Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X.
Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process
would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user
1 Install virtualbox
2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the
appliance).
Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete,
realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for
3.102.
--
Daniel Narvaez
___
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'market...@lists.sugarlabs.org');
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra hurdles for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases. With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of the downloads. It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over 10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be gating the download in a contact form. My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers to try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and others who preferred SoaS. Sean [1] http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry# On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance wise. From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's just downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on a bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really? On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac) The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free redistribution for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a single installer, ideal for our needs. In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner. Sean 1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox 2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox 2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote: At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar. Gonzalo On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote: On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete, realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for 3.102. -- Daniel Narvaez ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing -- Daniel Narvaez ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign) [Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 55]
cc'ing Marketing as well. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. Although the hardware specs are a good target for Sugar3, I believe that suggesting a really small box with 5 cables connected to it to showcase a K-9 educational platform, may retract from the feasibility and thoroughness of the project. A decent rooted tablet (ie Nexus 7) running Sugar on top of Linux, even if the performance is not the best, would be much more catchy and maybe suggestive of a Sugar-on-Android to come. I agree that to showcase Sugar, a tablet would be a better platform than Raspberry Pi, or Cubox-1, etc. Ruben Rodriguez showed us a Nexus 7 tablet running sugar at the OLPC SF summit. This build was running on top of Ubuntu desktop for ARM. We also had a Nexus 7 that was running the Ubuntu Touch (for phone and tablets) and Ruben thought it would perhaps be a better platform for running Sugar on a ARM tablet instead of his approach. I haven't followed up with him, but I'm cc'ing him as well. cheers, Sameer You can still do the CuBox thing but not for journalists and teachers. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). This is certainly a good idea but it must work as advertised ie in 1 click after the VM software is installed. I would only add Parallels-VM/VMware appliances since may already be present in these closed OSs and can really provide a single click to Sugar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign) [Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 55]
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote: cc'ing Marketing as well. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. Although the hardware specs are a good target for Sugar3, I believe that suggesting a really small box with 5 cables connected to it to showcase a K-9 educational platform, may retract from the feasibility and thoroughness of the project. A decent rooted tablet (ie Nexus 7) running Sugar on top of Linux, even if the performance is not the best, would be much more catchy and maybe suggestive of a Sugar-on-Android to come. I agree that to showcase Sugar, a tablet would be a better platform than Raspberry Pi, or Cubox-1, etc. Ruben Rodriguez showed us a Nexus 7 tablet running sugar at the OLPC SF summit. This build was running on top of Ubuntu desktop for ARM. We also had a Nexus 7 that was running the Ubuntu Touch (for phone and tablets) and Ruben thought it would perhaps be a better platform for running Sugar on a ARM tablet instead of his approach. I haven't followed up with him, but I'm cc'ing him as well. Found a thread that might be helpful. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-September/044819.html cheers, Sameer cheers, Sameer You can still do the CuBox thing but not for journalists and teachers. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). This is certainly a good idea but it must work as advertised ie in 1 click after the VM software is installed. I would only add Parallels-VM/VMware appliances since may already be present in these closed OSs and can really provide a single click to Sugar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
Of course I agree with you that less barriers the better but I think we
need to pick our battles. With current state of the downloads page I'd
expect the conversion rate to near the 0%. It takes a *lot* of extra clicks
to achieve the same.
I propose that we
* Rewrite the downloads page offering *simple* instruction only
for Soas and Virtualbox.
* Keep the current page somewhere on the wiki, prominently linked, it's
fine for techies.
* Start measuring conversion rate. I suspect we don't have a way to count
the number of users that managed to reach the Sugar home. But measuring
completed downloads would be a start.
* Gradually get rid of as many barriers as possible and see how the rate is
affected.
On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra hurdles
for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL
extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't
care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented
axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every
additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases.
With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of
interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of
the downloads.
It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most
resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in
mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential
conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over
10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be
gating the download in a contact form.
My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers to
try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and others who preferred SoaS.
Sean
[1]
http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry#
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez
dwnarv...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'dwnarv...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but
it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance
wise.
From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's
just downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on
a bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really
sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really?
On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is
multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac)
The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free
redistribution for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a
single installer, ideal for our needs.
In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing
partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner.
Sean
1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox
2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox
2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:
At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar.
Gonzalo
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:
On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to
know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we
need
to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and
journalists.
I can think of a couple of approaches
* Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of
those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with
SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option.
* Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X.
Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process
would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user
1 Install virtualbox
2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the
appliance).
Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete,
realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for
3.102.
--
Daniel Narvaez
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign) [Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 55]
Getting Sugar to run on a Nexus 7 is relatively simple, making it usable enough would likely be a lot of work but it should be possible. But, as far as I know, we have no idea of how get around the rooting, making it a viable solution for deployments. Until we figure that out IMO it doesn't make sense to market Sugar on a tablet. On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sameer Verma wrote: On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edujavascript:; wrote: cc'ing Marketing as well. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and journalists. I can think of a couple of approaches * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option. Although the hardware specs are a good target for Sugar3, I believe that suggesting a really small box with 5 cables connected to it to showcase a K-9 educational platform, may retract from the feasibility and thoroughness of the project. A decent rooted tablet (ie Nexus 7) running Sugar on top of Linux, even if the performance is not the best, would be much more catchy and maybe suggestive of a Sugar-on-Android to come. I agree that to showcase Sugar, a tablet would be a better platform than Raspberry Pi, or Cubox-1, etc. Ruben Rodriguez showed us a Nexus 7 tablet running sugar at the OLPC SF summit. This build was running on top of Ubuntu desktop for ARM. We also had a Nexus 7 that was running the Ubuntu Touch (for phone and tablets) and Ruben thought it would perhaps be a better platform for running Sugar on a ARM tablet instead of his approach. I haven't followed up with him, but I'm cc'ing him as well. Found a thread that might be helpful. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-September/044819.html cheers, Sameer cheers, Sameer You can still do the CuBox thing but not for journalists and teachers. * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X. Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user 1 Install virtualbox 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the appliance). This is certainly a good idea but it must work as advertised ie in 1 click after the VM software is installed. I would only add Parallels-VM/VMware appliances since may already be present in these closed OSs and can really provide a single click to Sugar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org javascript:; http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org javascript:; http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing -- Daniel Narvaez ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
Daniel - you mean the main download page [1], right? Not the VirtualBox page [2]? These and other wiki pages are indeed long and complex. We could break those out into a dozen subpages to keep each one manageable. This problem was meant to be solved by the new website template designed to replace the static main site. I believe Bernie has a stat tool for pages including the static main site, i remember seeing a report where traffic was like a thousand times more than usual after one of our press releases in the past. Conversion rate will both improve and remain very marginal as we streamline the existing structure since we haven't had press coverage for some time. I'm all for measuring, the number can only go up. However, without even measuring anything, there can be no doubt that every extra click will cost us downloads when we get press coverage rolling again. The best way to do it is to propose a default pair of pancake buttons (SoaS/VM) based on the visitor's OS and language, and hide the complex lists under an other systems and languages link. Adobe (Flash, Reader) and OOo do it like this. VirtualBox: I believe the installer autoconfigures itself for language (around 20 langs) after first screen in English, but we need to know if our VMs could autoconfigure for lang/keyb and if so, how much work that is, I imagine the alternative being a matrix of prebuilt machines by language (for sure that will be work). The learning curve and resources required is why I want to reach out to Oracle. For SoaS, I believe it has always been default US-en lang/keyb, we'd have to ask Peter if a reasonably simple solution for multiple languages is available - ideally, a language setup screen when first run. Sean 1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DocumentationTeam/Try_Sugar 2. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Of course I agree with you that less barriers the better but I think we need to pick our battles. With current state of the downloads page I'd expect the conversion rate to near the 0%. It takes a *lot* of extra clicks to achieve the same. I propose that we * Rewrite the downloads page offering *simple* instruction only for Soas and Virtualbox. * Keep the current page somewhere on the wiki, prominently linked, it's fine for techies. * Start measuring conversion rate. I suspect we don't have a way to count the number of users that managed to reach the Sugar home. But measuring completed downloads would be a start. * Gradually get rid of as many barriers as possible and see how the rate is affected. On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra hurdles for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases. With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of the downloads. It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over 10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be gating the download in a contact form. My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers to try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and others who preferred SoaS. Sean [1] http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry# On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote: Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance wise. From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's just downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on a bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really? On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac) The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free redistribution for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a single installer, ideal for our needs. In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner. Sean 1.
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
An observation, from the outside, about marketing discussions. Several times over the last couple of days a number of marketing related posts have started, I think we should Another, possibly more productive approach, might be to engage Sean, the marketing expert, in a discussion about why he thinks the way he does:) The premise is to build on each other's strengths which minimize the effects of individuals weakness. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel - you mean the main download page [1], right? Not the VirtualBox page [2]? These and other wiki pages are indeed long and complex. We could break those out into a dozen subpages to keep each one manageable. This problem was meant to be solved by the new website template designed to replace the static main site. I believe Bernie has a stat tool for pages including the static main site, i remember seeing a report where traffic was like a thousand times more than usual after one of our press releases in the past. Conversion rate will both improve and remain very marginal as we streamline the existing structure since we haven't had press coverage for some time. I'm all for measuring, the number can only go up. However, without even measuring anything, there can be no doubt that every extra click will cost us downloads when we get press coverage rolling again. The best way to do it is to propose a default pair of pancake buttons (SoaS/VM) based on the visitor's OS and language, and hide the complex lists under an other systems and languages link. Adobe (Flash, Reader) and OOo do it like this. VirtualBox: I believe the installer autoconfigures itself for language (around 20 langs) after first screen in English, but we need to know if our VMs could autoconfigure for lang/keyb and if so, how much work that is, I imagine the alternative being a matrix of prebuilt machines by language (for sure that will be work). The learning curve and resources required is why I want to reach out to Oracle. For SoaS, I believe it has always been default US-en lang/keyb, we'd have to ask Peter if a reasonably simple solution for multiple languages is available - ideally, a language setup screen when first run. Sean 1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DocumentationTeam/Try_Sugar 2. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Of course I agree with you that less barriers the better but I think we need to pick our battles. With current state of the downloads page I'd expect the conversion rate to near the 0%. It takes a *lot* of extra clicks to achieve the same. I propose that we * Rewrite the downloads page offering *simple* instruction only for Soas and Virtualbox. * Keep the current page somewhere on the wiki, prominently linked, it's fine for techies. * Start measuring conversion rate. I suspect we don't have a way to count the number of users that managed to reach the Sugar home. But measuring completed downloads would be a start. * Gradually get rid of as many barriers as possible and see how the rate is affected. On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra hurdles for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases. With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of the downloads. It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over 10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be gating the download in a contact form. My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers to try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and others who preferred SoaS. Sean [1] http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry# On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance wise. From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's just downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on a bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really sound bad, what is stopping us marketing
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)
Not sure what you are referring to. Personally I feel like Sean has already justified his positions in a convincing way. I'm simply trying to come up with a set of concrete development goals which are realistically achievable. There has been an years long disconnect between marketing and development. Closing that gap requires both parties to listen to each other, something which I feel has been happening in the last few days threads. On 8 November 2013 23:35, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.comwrote: An observation, from the outside, about marketing discussions. Several times over the last couple of days a number of marketing related posts have started, I think we should Another, possibly more productive approach, might be to engage Sean, the marketing expert, in a discussion about why he thinks the way he does:) The premise is to build on each other's strengths which minimize the effects of individuals weakness. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel - you mean the main download page [1], right? Not the VirtualBox page [2]? These and other wiki pages are indeed long and complex. We could break those out into a dozen subpages to keep each one manageable. This problem was meant to be solved by the new website template designed to replace the static main site. I believe Bernie has a stat tool for pages including the static main site, i remember seeing a report where traffic was like a thousand times more than usual after one of our press releases in the past. Conversion rate will both improve and remain very marginal as we streamline the existing structure since we haven't had press coverage for some time. I'm all for measuring, the number can only go up. However, without even measuring anything, there can be no doubt that every extra click will cost us downloads when we get press coverage rolling again. The best way to do it is to propose a default pair of pancake buttons (SoaS/VM) based on the visitor's OS and language, and hide the complex lists under an other systems and languages link. Adobe (Flash, Reader) and OOo do it like this. VirtualBox: I believe the installer autoconfigures itself for language (around 20 langs) after first screen in English, but we need to know if our VMs could autoconfigure for lang/keyb and if so, how much work that is, I imagine the alternative being a matrix of prebuilt machines by language (for sure that will be work). The learning curve and resources required is why I want to reach out to Oracle. For SoaS, I believe it has always been default US-en lang/keyb, we'd have to ask Peter if a reasonably simple solution for multiple languages is available - ideally, a language setup screen when first run. Sean 1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DocumentationTeam/Try_Sugar 2. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Of course I agree with you that less barriers the better but I think we need to pick our battles. With current state of the downloads page I'd expect the conversion rate to near the 0%. It takes a *lot* of extra clicks to achieve the same. I propose that we * Rewrite the downloads page offering *simple* instruction only for Soas and Virtualbox. * Keep the current page somewhere on the wiki, prominently linked, it's fine for techies. * Start measuring conversion rate. I suspect we don't have a way to count the number of users that managed to reach the Sugar home. But measuring completed downloads would be a start. * Gradually get rid of as many barriers as possible and see how the rate is affected. On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote: Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra hurdles for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases. With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of the downloads. It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over 10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be gating the download in a contact form. My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers to try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and
