Re patents & copyrights

[Larry Bohlayer]

I agree with those who have already cited the likely waste of funds in
pursuing a patent on sundial. Of course, I did not follow that advice years
ago in obtaining my sundial patent. I had obtained the book on writing a
patent application and did a patent search myself. However, I realized that
application language must be 'just right' to avoid the
rejection/reapplication cycled that one can get into. The attorney I hired
did get it right and the patent went through on the first pass which even
he admitted was not the norm.

Why did I pursue the patent. First, I had been burned by a major retailer
(The Nature Company...now Discovery Stores) who, after being presented the
opportunity to sell one of my moon phase calendar designs, hired an artist
to create a ripoff version. Attorneys estimated that it would take a
minimum of $20,000 to get them to court and that I would likely lose.
Without that kind of funding, I proceeded to try to outdo them in the
marketplace. As of this year, Discovery appears to not have produced a year
2000 version - which may mean that I did ultimately beat them in sales.

A second reason I pursued obtaining a patent on my sundial is that I
intended to mass market it (still in the works). Under such a circumstance
(a mass marketable sundial), I thought I would have a better shot at
licensing the design or seeking protection against likely copycats if it
proved successful. All of this remains to be seen.

I highly recommend the publications from NOLO PRESS (www.nolo.com). They
have legal self-help publications including excellent ones on Trademarks,
Copyrights, and Patents. In one or all of these are forms and boilerplate
for various situations. An important one that can be used in conjunction
with approaching a potential partner, manufacturer, investor, etc. is a
non-disclosure agreement. While this document can provide some legal
foothold if the other party runs off with your idea, I believe its main use
in providing an indication that you are serious about your work and that
you would pursue legal efforts if they violate the rules.

Even though I am attempting to widely market a sundial design, I highly
doubt there is a possibility of any sundial making a 'killing' in the
marketplace.

I have found dialists to be highly enthusiastic in sharing ideas and
methods to improve their dials. I would hate to see the development of
deliberate attempts to 'steal' from a fellow dialist and not acknowledge
the contribution (by word and/or compensation).

FYI, my patent application and attorney fees were around $2,500...over 10
years ago.




Larry Bohlayer

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Re: patents & copyrights

[Luke Coletti]

Hello John,

So far, there seems to be a unanimous consensus that a patent for a
sundial design isn't worth it, I completely agree. However, in my usual
contraryian fashion, I will say that looking over past sundial patents
has been a fascinating adventure. I have copied all US patent wrappers
as pertaining to sundials, it was a task done with many trips to a local
patent depository. Most are fairly droll, even "lame" but there are
others that are truly inventive and worthy of closer investigation and
construction. Fred Sawyer has given us a taste for this in recent
publications of the Compendium, something that I hope will continue. If
you have some time to kill (and you'll need a lot of it) then I'd
recommend a visit to a patent library. The URL below provides a list of
US patent depository libraries. You can also, of course, request copies
from the USPTO directly. 

http://www.bioinfo.com/fbdpdls.html

Best,

Luke

Re: more PostScript

[Luke Coletti]

John,

I really like the dodecahedron calendar, thank you! You are becoming
quite savvy with PostScript. Here is something similar that you may
enjoy, an icosahedron map of the Earth (they're temporarily out of stock
though). Perhaps a icosahedron sundial would be an interesting
PostScript project?

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/fliers/95ngdc01.html 

Best,

Luke

john hoy wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> I ran across a really cool PostScript program that's a dodecahedron desk
> calender, at least it is once you cut it out and glue it together. It's a
> really fun thing, if you like that sort of thing. I put a year 2000
> version at jh.portland.co.uk/deskcal.ps
> 
> I also wrote a PostScript analemmatic dial program. It's on the list at
> axum.tripod.com
> 
> Regarding patents, I also once designed a sundial which I believe is
> patentable. I'm glad that I took the advice I was given here on this
> mailing list to not pursue a patent.
> 
> Gladly making sundials,
> 
> John

Re: Twisted band sundial

[Luke Coletti]

Jim,

Try the following URL (select item 9, Sundial).

http://www.egeskov-slot.dk/english/sightseeing/index.html

Luke++

Jim_Cobb wrote:
> 
> Here is some info concerning the Piet Hein dial I got from this list
> some time back.  Unfortunately, it appears that the URL has grown
> stale...
> 
> Jim 40N45, 111W53
>  --- -- 
> | Jim Cobb  | 540 Arapeen Dr. #100 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
> | Parametric| Salt Lake City, UT   | (801)-588-4632 |
> |  Technology Corp. |   84108-1202 | Fax (801)-588-4650 |
>  --- -- 
> I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.  -- Mark Twain
> 
> __
> Date> Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:27:52 -0600
> To> "Les Cowley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "David Higgon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "all" 
> From> Roger Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject> Re: Spiral line solution extra
> 
> See Helix Helios at  for a
> wonderful helical dial by Piet Hein. It is at Egeskov Castle in Denmark.
> Thanks Daniel Roth for including it on "sundial links"
> 
> Roger Bailey
> __
> 
> The Sundial "Helix Helios"
> is nine meters tall, and
> was given to Egeskov in
> 1989 by the multitalented
> Piet Hein.  The time is
> shown on the twisting
> spiral.

Request for important information

[Alexei Pace]

Dear sundial enthusiasts

Today I wish to ask something non-sundial-related...

I saw the very interesting website http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist  which 
calculates the distance between two places, given their latitudes and 
longitudes.


However I wonder whether you can help me as regards another thing.

I live in MALTA, Europe, and  am trying to do meteor triangulation, and to 
do this I need the latitude and longitude of two places, equidistant from 
two other places by 50km.

The two places I got have lats and long's as follows:
Ras il-Qammieh - Latitude 35°58'27"N  Longitude 14°18'30"E  and
Mnajdra-  Latitude 35°49'41"N  Longitude 14°26'17"E.

Now I need to know the exact latitude and longitude of the two places 50km 
away from both of these localities.  These lie on the two intersection 
points of two great circles with Ras il-Qammieh and Mnajdra as centres, 
and with radius 50km.


I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards

Alexei Pace

PS The greatest problem is that these areas end up in the sea and so I 
couldnt find any maps from which to scale off the required data!
From my calculations however I got an answer of Lat 35°39'30"N and Lon 
13°54'44"E for one of the points.


I can send you a picture showing the circles I mentioned if its not 
clear.Thanks


"Behind every man alive stand thirty ghosts, for that is the ratio by
which the dead outnumber the living. Since the dawn of time, a hundred
billion human beings have walked the planet Earth." -- arthur c. clarke

Re: patents & copyrights

[Cary Chleborad]

> Patents for sundials really don't make sense.  Marketing does.  Service
> to the customer does.
> 
> Spend your money doing the actual work, not on lawyers.
> 
> Best Wishes,
>  - Ben
> 


Here it is!.. Nailed Right on the Head!

You have to consider the total "fortune" you are attempting to protect
with intellectual property rights legalities.  Trying to protect a small
niche market will just soak up your profits. It doesn't seem that there
isn't very much competition in the dial market and there probably isn't
millions to be made - otherwise Microsoft, Coke, GM, Ford and a few
others would be peddling dials too.

As mentioned before, spend your time marketing and developing your
product and don't worry about cheap knock-offs being sold by Harbor
Freight Tools.

-Cary

Twisted band sundial

[G�nther Faltlhansl]

Hello Fellow-Dialists,
I have been following your various exchanges of thoughts for not too
long now and I must have missed somehow just what triggered the discussion
on patents.
They are not really in the center of my interests anyhow, but the discussion
reminded me of a PCT (International Application published under the Patent
Cooperation Treaty), published in 1990 by a Danish applicant,
Piet HEIN. (Internat. Publication No: WO90/13854).
"The invention comprises a strip-shaped body with surfaces substantially
in the form of helicoidal surfaces. At least one of the helicoidal surfaces
is graduated."
This twisted metal band seems to be oriented parallel to the axis of
the earth and one edge is casting its shadow onto the "inside" of the band.
Unfortunately nothing is said how the graduation is carried out (empirically?)
and there is no theory given. I have not found such a dial in any of my
gnomonic literature (clearly it is any invention!). I would be interested
in a mathematical theory behind it. Would anyone among you be possibly
familiar with it?

Regards,
Günther Faltlhansl
48°09' N
16°52' E
 

Re: Twisted band sundial

[Jim_Cobb]

Here is some info concerning the Piet Hein dial I got from this list
some time back.  Unfortunately, it appears that the URL has grown
stale...

Jim 40N45, 111W53
 --- -- 
| Jim Cobb  | 540 Arapeen Dr. #100 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
| Parametric| Salt Lake City, UT   | (801)-588-4632 |
|  Technology Corp. |   84108-1202 | Fax (801)-588-4650 |
 --- -- 
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.  -- Mark Twain

__
Date> Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:27:52 -0600
To> "Les Cowley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "David Higgon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"all" 
From> Roger Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject> Re: Spiral line solution extra

See Helix Helios at  for a
wonderful helical dial by Piet Hein. It is at Egeskov Castle in Denmark.
Thanks Daniel Roth for including it on "sundial links"

Roger Bailey
__

The Sundial "Helix Helios"
is nine meters tall, and
was given to Egeskov in
1989 by the multitalented
Piet Hein.  The time is
shown on the twisting
spiral.

more PostScript

[john hoy]

Greetings,

I ran across a really cool PostScript program that's a dodecahedron desk
calender, at least it is once you cut it out and glue it together. It's a
really fun thing, if you like that sort of thing. I put a year 2000
version at jh.portland.co.uk/deskcal.ps

I also wrote a PostScript analemmatic dial program. It's on the list at
axum.tripod.com

Regarding patents, I also once designed a sundial which I believe is
patentable. I'm glad that I took the advice I was given here on this
mailing list to not pursue a patent.

Gladly making sundials,

John