To All Living in the US
I am sure that I speak for many when I say to those members of this list living in the USA, that our thoughts and prayers are with you at this tragic time.
Re: varnish
Charlie mead wrote: A good top-coat for protection from the sun and weather are the 'clear-coats' used by the automobile industry. Virtually all new automobiles are finished with a 'clear-coat' over a 'color coat'. 'Clear-coat's are manufactured by all the major paint companies. I use DuPont's 7800S. There are several after-market clear-coats out there that are much more affordable and seem to work fine. The most permanent finish for your project would be to coat the sundial with West System epoxy over the paint (two-coats, rolled on) and then two coats of 'clear-coat' over this for ultra violet protection. The automobile 'clear coat may not be the best on timber or surfaces other than metal, but the West Epoxy will work well. At least it does on woden boats which are subjected to quite haesh elemental treatment. It should be available in any reasonable boat chandlers. P
Re: Ah hah! and EQT
Roger Bailey wrote: the Longitude Problem became critically important for navigation. Time is the essence of the determination of longitude so knowing the difference between solar time and star time was the first step. An interesting and readable book on this subject is Dava Sobel's 'Longitude' published by 4th Estate and a long time entry in the best sellers lists. Paul Murphy.
Re: Act of 1752
May I recommend David Ewart Duncan's 'The Calendar' recently published by 4th Estate for an interesting insight into the calculation of the year etc. Paul Murphy
Attachments.
In long distance sailing there is a rule of thumb which advises not to make changes to the trim for ten minutes after small changes in sailing conditions, to ensure that these condition changes are true and lasting. I should have applied this rule to my response to Loy Chun's contribution to the list. It was afterall the first time he had made such a contribution and could not have known the conversations which had gone on on this topic before he joined us. Had I waited ten minutes before responding, I would probably have been a lot less direct and sharply critical. Loy has kindly written to me privately, and I am delighted to acknowledge this and offer my regrets to him publically for the sharpness of my response. May I also thank all those who have written to me with advice on ways to overcome the problems of expensive downloads. We have some expertise on this list! Paul Murphy
Re: Toronto Sunclock --jpg
Here we go again! Not all of the members of this list live in places where the telephone charges are as inexpensive or free as they are in Toronto. Nor do we work in places which provide us with free technology and internet access. Now I have two graphics files dumped in my mail box of exactly the same material, one in .pdf format and another in .jpg format. I want neither. It took seven and a half minutes to download these files from my ISP server. That means that I have to pay dearly for somebody elses thoughtlessness. Why do people persist with this kind of junk mail which they may think amazing, but is of no interest to others. PLEASE STOP IT. You are depriving me of the pleasure of being on a list I enjoy, but I will have to withdraw if you persist with this behaviour. Others have had to do the same. Paul Murphy Dear shade-infatuated friends I'm a new commer for North America from Thailand. I just finished a new programe to design a box sunclock--project on 4 sides. For initiation, I made one for my new city, new country--Toronto, Ontario, Canada. If you like to see in better quality, you have to open the attached file--sunclock-box.pdf by Acrobat reader. Don't hesitant for questions and commends. Loy chunpongtong; Mining Engineer and Economist __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Books to read
I think I have already mentioned The Stones of Time by Martin Brennan to members of the list. It is worth a look for some ancient and large sundial information. It is published by Inner Traditions International, Rochester Vermont, in 1994 and still available. (ISBN 0-89281-509-4) May I also mention a new book which I have just read and which may interest others: The Calendar, by David Ewing Duncan, published by Fourth Estate (1998) (ISBN1-85702-721-3; Price £12.99) is the story of the 5000-year struggle to align the clock with the heavens and what happened to the missing ten days. Again well worth a look for the amateur. Paul Murphy @ 53* 17' N 06* 08' W
Book recommendation
I can recommend to diallers a book which I found by accident at our local bookshop: The Stones of Time, Calendars, Sundials and Stone Chambers of Ancient Ireland, by Martin Brennan (Inner Traditions International, Rochester, Vermont 05767; ISBN 0-89281-509-4; pub. 1994). It is a detailed, if not always scientifically finessed, exposition of the dialling aspects of the megalithic structures here in Ireland which are estimeated to be almost 7000 years old. The are both examples of the sophistiction of the astronomy of those who built them, and of the abstract art which they contain. Paul Murphy 53* 17' N 06* 08' W
Re: Question
George L. McDowell, Jr. wrote We use the term mean to describe the time shown by man-made chronometers. I suggest that this is an incorrect use of the English word (and an incorrect use of words in other languages which have the same meaning as 'mean' has in English). I think the proper word is average. I say this because I think that the average time it takes the earth to rotate each day beneath the sun from one point in its orbit to the same point approximately a year later is 24 hours, and that the mean of the times it takes the earth to so rotate is not relevant to a determination of the length of a day. Is my thinking correct or incorrect? Thanks. George I would suggest is in error. 'Average' has a connotation of ordinariness. The OED gives its definition, among others, as the 'usual amount, extebt or rate.' 'Mean' on the other hand has a much more precise meaning as 'the condition, quality or course of action equally removed form two opposite extremes.' In sailing terms 'mean sea level is that level which is half way between the high and low tides. The statisticians among us will also appreciate the difference between the average and the mean. Perhaps I could enter the following for consideration for Tony's wonderful prize, which ,should I win, I will dedicate to George: I am not average, I am not mean, I tell the time just as seen. 'Ha!Ha!' Paul @ 53* 17' N 06* 08' W
Re: universal language ?
Look Guys! This is getting out of hand. I speak a language which I doubt is spoken by any other member of the list, but I am quite happy to use English as a lingua franca for international communications. It is a fact of life that in commerce, science generally and many other area of human life that this is so. I can speak several other languages and I am happy to use them, but if I want to participate in a useful and interesting list such as this, I must use English. Its a function of colonial history, not xenophobia or racism. Had Spain or Portugal maintained their pre-eminent positions, I would be just as happy to speak Spanish or Portugese. When the Chinese take over as leaders in business and science. I will be happy to use their language (if I can learn it). As far as I am aware this list is about sun dials in all their aspects, scientific, artistic and temporal. I have learned a lot from it, all in English. The verse competition proposed by Tony Moss is entertaining and a good idea, but not if it gives rise to this kind of stuff and nonsense. lets gey back to dialling, please. Paul Murphy 53* 17' N 06* 08' W Epistolas non amo nisi serenas
Verse Thoughts
IMHO, the verse should be original. Like other members of the list I have a goodish collection of mottoes in various languages, and it would be easy to submit them, even if tedious to type them up. The science behind dials gets a fair airing on the list, and very welcome it is to a non-scientist like myself. But dials are about more than the mere science. They can be works of art, intrinsically beautiful and useful even in a time-accurate world. A good motto enhances this beauty and crates interset. The point is that sundials are happily more appreciated now than they have been for some time, and although the mottoes of old may be quaint, they reflect human thought at the time of their manufacture. Surely the conception of a good motto is not a dead art and we, who all have a more than passing interest in dial, can come up with some apt, witty, profound and perhaps beautiful ones for our age. As to the method of picking a winner, I think this should be in the hands of a wordsmith, perhaps a poet, not necessarily a dialler but one who can appreciate a motto for its 'artistic' merit and purpose. And as to language, why not accept entries in any language, with the proviso that the author provide a translation, even in faltering English, for ease of administration and assessment by whoever is agreed as judge, eg, Nuair a thiteann an Grian go geall ar'n Domhain, Abair an t-a'm o' sca'th mo shro'in. Trans: When the Sun's shine falls upon the earth Tell the time from my nose's shadow (Which works well with the poetic conventions of one language, but is pure and dreadful drivel in another!) Paul Murphy @ 53* 17.3' N and 06* 08.7' W
Re: verse contest
George L. McDowell, Jr. wrote: In addition to Tony Moss's latest, I suggest that the haiku would make an elegant form for sundial mottoes. Webster's Seventh defines 'haiku' as an unrhymed Japanese poem of three lines containing 5, 7, and 5 syllables respectively and referring in some way to one of the seasons of the year. The Japanese use haiku on 'Hureem bells' (if my benefactor taught me how to say it correctly). These are small bells with a paper, bearing the haiku, attahced by a thread to the clapper. This causes the clapper to move gently with the breeze and reminds the owner of the benefactor. Nice thought. Paul Murphy 53* 17' N 06* 08' W Horas non numero nisi serenas
Thanks
Thank you to all those who came to my aid with the hygrometry question yesteray. It was most civil of all those who gave me advice. Go raobh maith agaibh go leir. Paul Murphy 53* 17' N, 06* 08' W Tempus fugit, Aeternitas manet
A question
This question is NOT related to sundials so I apologise in advance. I have made a wet and dry bulb hygrometer to measure realtive air humidity. Unfortunately the only table to convert temperature differences into relative humidity is in one of my children's books. Perhaps some diallist would know where I could find a more advanced one on the 'net. Thanks. Paul Murphy 53* 17' N, 06* 08' W Tempus fugit, Aeternitas manet
Re:
Andrew Petit wrote: I hope I am not speaking too much out of turn here but your 1770 ringdial attached file took me about 10 minutes to download. I had no opportunity of ignoring the file attached to your e-mail. Over here in our own quaint way British Telecom charge even for local 'phone calls so this file, which I could have lived without, cost me more money to receive than I regularly spend in a week of logging on daily. Might I suggest that the file may have been better supplied on request only. My reason for mailing the entire list with this is to give others the chance to shout me down if mine is a lone voice. If you have reached this far, thank you for considering this Hear him! Hear him! Here in Ireland we have the most expensive local call charges in Europe, and long attachment cost a packet of money, so we are sparing in our use of the net. It is wonderful to get information and attachments, but first count the cost for the receiver! Paul Murphy 53* 17' N 06*08' W Horas non numero nisi serenas.
Initial Thanks
Fred Sawyer, in his mail to me, quoted Hilaire Belloc: Civilisation loses its treasures by an unconscious process. It has lost them before it has appreciated that they were in the way of being lost: and when I say 'its treasures' I mean the special discoveries and crafts of mankind. Judging by the response I had to my question of last week, there is little chance of the art of dialling being lost. May I record my thanks to all who wrote to me both on and off the list. I shall try each suggestion in due course Returning to what Belloc said about loss of treasures, some time ago I decided that dials would be wonderful adornments to buildings, both public and private, and adopted a strategem of giving every architect I know a copy of the Waugh book to stimulate interest. With modern technologies, it must be possible to incorporate accurate dials into the built environment, and by their incorporation enhance it. Paul Murphy 53* 17' N : 06* 08' W Horas non numero nisi serenas
New list member
I have just joined this list, and am delighted to find that I am not the only dialler in the world. My interest is in making and refurbishing dials on a strictly amateur basis. To do so it is necessary for me to calculate by hand the hour angles, a long and tedious process. I use the process outlined in Waugh's book. I wonder if the combined wisdom of the other list members can recommend a computer programme which will do this task. Also where it can be obtained. Paul Murphy 53* 17' N : 06* 08' W Horas non numero nisi serenas
