Monumental Statistics?

[John Carmichael]

Hello All:

Please excuse my flood of questions lately, but new ones keep coming up.

How do I answer this question that people have asked me over and over?:

What is the largest sundial in the world and how does Kitt Peak compare? I
don't want to make any claims that are untrue.

Sounding too much like Clinton, I guess it all depends on how you define
big. The size can refer to either the gnomon height, the gnomon length, the
length of the gnomon base or the area of the dial face. It might even be
defined by the maximum distance from the style to the furthest time point on
the face. (In this case, you could difine largness by the width of the
penumbra.  The largest sundial in the world would have the widest penumbra.
Jaipur's penumbra is only 10 cm wide whereas Kitt Peak's widest penumbra is
20 cm).Things get more complicated when you compare different types of
sundials.  The only other really big ones that I know about are The Jaipur
equatorial, Team Disney in Orlando, and the Minami-Mura in Japan.  I'm sure
there must be others really big ones. I have dimensions of Jaipur, Disney
and Kitt Peak. Here are the dimensions I have:

Jaipur Equatorial Sundial: gnomon height: 27m, gnomon length: <30m, gnomon
base: 44m, area: <1 acre

Kitt Peak Sundial: gnomon height: 24m, gnomon length: 45m, gnomon base: 54m,
face area: 685 sq. m

Minami-Mura Sundial: Dimensions unknown

Team Disney Sundial: gnomon height: 37m, gnomon length(not applicable), base
of gnomon (not applicable),
face area: unknown

If you look at gnomon height, Team Disney is the biggest (37m). If you look
at gnomon length, Kitt Peak is the biggest (45m). Kitt Peak also has the
longest gnomon base (54m). But Jaipur occupies the largest area (almost an
acre).

What definition or combination of definitions should I use?

What sundials have I missed that might be record-holder contenders for the
largest sundial?

How should I answer this difficult question that everybody's asking?

Thanks

John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: 


-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[Mac Oglesby]

To John Carmichael,

Why not simply say the Kitt Peak sundial is ONE of the biggest?

Mac

-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[John Carmichael]

Yea, I've been saying that, but that still leaves the question unanswered.
John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
- Original Message - 
From: "Mac Oglesby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics?


> 
> To John Carmichael,
> 
> Why not simply say the Kitt Peak sundial is ONE of the biggest?
> 
> Mac
> 
> -
> 

-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[RKriegler]

Minami-Mura Sundial: Dimensions unknown


Dear John,

Minami-mura tells the size of the Gnomon: 37,3 metres high 
mi (mittsu) = 3, na (nanatsu) = 7, mi = 3 (an old way of Japanese counting) 
Minami-mura is the name of the village, where the sundial was built on the roof of a congress hall. (See my essay in March 2000 Compendium) :-)

Don't forget to mention the much nicer big Japanese sundial of Shin Minohara, which he built in Keihanna and which had been in Guinness Book of Records ... as several other sundials 
Floorspace: 3877, 86 m²
Gnomon: 35, 02 m long, 19, 94 m high

* * *
Mac is right!

And I would like to add:
The beauty of a sundial is much more important than the size!
I am sure, John, you will create a very beautiful sundial, which will enjoy many people in future!

Good luck!

Reinhold
* ** ***  * ** ***
Reinhold R. Kriegler
Lat: 53° 06' 53'' N   
Long: 8° 53' 54" E

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[fer j. de vries]

John,

What do you think of the dial in France at Mont St. Michel?
The top of the cathedral on top of an island is the endpoint of the gnomon
for a dial on the beach.
It only works at the equinoxes, but still is a sundial.
I don't know if it still exist.
More information has circulated on the list but I don't have it anymore.

Fer.


Fer J. de Vries
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/
Eindhoven, Netherlands
lat.  51:30 N  long.  5:30 E

- Original Message -
From: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial List" 
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:18 PM
Subject: Monumental Statistics?


> Hello All:
>
> Please excuse my flood of questions lately, but new ones keep coming up.
>
> How do I answer this question that people have asked me over and over?:
>
> What is the largest sundial in the world and how does Kitt Peak compare? I
> don't want to make any claims that are untrue.
>
> Sounding too much like Clinton, I guess it all depends on how you define
> big. The size can refer to either the gnomon height, the gnomon length,
the
> length of the gnomon base or the area of the dial face. It might even be
> defined by the maximum distance from the style to the furthest time point
on
> the face. (In this case, you could difine largness by the width of the
> penumbra.  The largest sundial in the world would have the widest
penumbra.
> Jaipur's penumbra is only 10 cm wide whereas Kitt Peak's widest penumbra
is
> 20 cm).Things get more complicated when you compare different types of
> sundials.  The only other really big ones that I know about are The Jaipur
> equatorial, Team Disney in Orlando, and the Minami-Mura in Japan.  I'm
sure
> there must be others really big ones. I have dimensions of Jaipur, Disney
> and Kitt Peak. Here are the dimensions I have:
>
> Jaipur Equatorial Sundial: gnomon height: 27m, gnomon length: <30m, gnomon
> base: 44m, area: <1 acre
>
> Kitt Peak Sundial: gnomon height: 24m, gnomon length: 45m, gnomon base:
54m,
> face area: 685 sq. m
>
> Minami-Mura Sundial: Dimensions unknown
>
> Team Disney Sundial: gnomon height: 37m, gnomon length(not applicable),
base
> of gnomon (not applicable),
> face area: unknown
>
> If you look at gnomon height, Team Disney is the biggest (37m). If you
look
> at gnomon length, Kitt Peak is the biggest (45m). Kitt Peak also has the
> longest gnomon base (54m). But Jaipur occupies the largest area (almost an
> acre).
>
> What definition or combination of definitions should I use?
>
> What sundials have I missed that might be record-holder contenders for the
> largest sundial?
>
> How should I answer this difficult question that everybody's asking?
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
> John L. Carmichael Jr.
> Sundial Sculptures
> 925 E. Foothills Dr.
> Tucson Arizona 85718
> USA
>
> Tel: 520-696-1709
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
>
>
> -
>



-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[Ron Anthony]

John,

It my understanding the the Minnamimura gnomon height is 37.3 meters.  

This issue of the largest is a tough one but one that a lot of diallist and 
non-diallist alike are interested in.  Maybe NASS should undertake documenting  
the dimensions of the larger dials and post it on the web site.  

++ron



- Original Message - 
From: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial List" 
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:18 AM
Subject: Monumental Statistics?


> Hello All:
> 
> Please excuse my flood of questions lately, but new ones keep coming up.
> 
> How do I answer this question that people have asked me over and over?:
> 
> What is the largest sundial in the world and how does Kitt Peak compare? I
> don't want to make any claims that are untrue.
> 
> Sounding too much like Clinton, I guess it all depends on how you define
> big. The size can refer to either the gnomon height, the gnomon length, the
> length of the gnomon base or the area of the dial face. It might even be
> defined by the maximum distance from the style to the furthest time point on
> the face. (In this case, you could difine largness by the width of the
> penumbra.  The largest sundial in the world would have the widest penumbra.
> Jaipur's penumbra is only 10 cm wide whereas Kitt Peak's widest penumbra is
> 20 cm).Things get more complicated when you compare different types of
> sundials.  The only other really big ones that I know about are The Jaipur
> equatorial, Team Disney in Orlando, and the Minami-Mura in Japan.  I'm sure
> there must be others really big ones. I have dimensions of Jaipur, Disney
> and Kitt Peak. Here are the dimensions I have:
> 
> Jaipur Equatorial Sundial: gnomon height: 27m, gnomon length: <30m, gnomon
> base: 44m, area: <1 acre
> 
> Kitt Peak Sundial: gnomon height: 24m, gnomon length: 45m, gnomon base: 54m,
> face area: 685 sq. m
> 
> Minami-Mura Sundial: Dimensions unknown
> 
> Team Disney Sundial: gnomon height: 37m, gnomon length(not applicable), base
> of gnomon (not applicable),
> face area: unknown
> 
> If you look at gnomon height, Team Disney is the biggest (37m). If you look
> at gnomon length, Kitt Peak is the biggest (45m). Kitt Peak also has the
> longest gnomon base (54m). But Jaipur occupies the largest area (almost an
> acre).
> 
> What definition or combination of definitions should I use?
> 
> What sundials have I missed that might be record-holder contenders for the
> largest sundial?
> 
> How should I answer this difficult question that everybody's asking?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John
> 
> John L. Carmichael Jr.
> Sundial Sculptures
> 925 E. Foothills Dr.
> Tucson Arizona 85718
> USA
> 
> Tel: 520-696-1709
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
> 
> 
> -

-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[Robert Terwilliger]

"fer j. de vries" wrote:

> What do you think of the dial in France at Mont St. Michel?

Here is a link:

http://maget.maget.free.fr/SiteMont/

Bob Terwilliger
-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[Jean-Paul Cornec]

The Mont-Saint-Michel sundial lasted only a equinox season in 1988. But in
France there is now la "Nef Solaire" in Tavel that is "only" 17m high :
http://www.ac-montpellier.fr/scphysiques/Nef_Solaire/nef_solaire.htm
and the sundial on the Place de la Concorde in Paris with the Obelisk, both
designed by D. Savoie.
But the point is indeed to design , set up and add a new monumental dial
(or, here, a dial from a monument) to the existing list.
Good work John.
JP Cornec
- Original Message -
From: Robert Terwilliger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics?


> "fer j. de vries" wrote:
>
> > What do you think of the dial in France at Mont St. Michel?
>
> Here is a link:
>
> http://maget.maget.free.fr/SiteMont/
>
> Bob Terwilliger
> -

-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[Tony Moss]

John Carmichael wrote

>What definition or combination of definitions should I use?
>
>What sundials have I missed that might be record-holder contenders for the
>largest sundial?
>
>How should I answer this difficult question that everybody's asking?
>
>Thanks

When this topic was aired some years ago I recall suggesting that the 
size of a dial should be judged by the VOLUME of the smallest imaginary 
rectilinear box which would contain all its elements.

Tony Moss
-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[GinnyandHalB]

In an article in Volume 2 Number 4 of The Compendium,  I briefly discussed sundial size using the Jaipur, Disney and Augustus sundials.  I compared them using isometric drawings that I made.  On the basis of area occupied by each dial, I calculated the following:

Augustus   -   103000 sq. ft.

Jaipur   -   21000 sq. ft.

Disney  -  11300 sq. ft.

The Guiness Book of Records, the last time I looked, listed the Disney Dial as the world's largest.  When I questioned them about their basis, I received no answer!

Hal Brandmaier  

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[John Carmichael]

Cool!

John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
- Original Message -
From: "Tony Moss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial Mail List" 
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics?


> John Carmichael wrote
>
> >What definition or combination of definitions should I use?
> >
> >What sundials have I missed that might be record-holder contenders for
the
> >largest sundial?
> >
> >How should I answer this difficult question that everybody's asking?
> >
> >Thanks
>
> When this topic was aired some years ago I recall suggesting that the
> size of a dial should be judged by the VOLUME of the smallest imaginary
> rectilinear box which would contain all its elements.
>
> Tony Moss
> -
>

-

Re: Monumental Statistics

[Josef Pastor]

What´s about this SD in Sweden:

http://www.pajala.se/welcome/tourism/soltorg.shtml

On the homepage you can read:
The world's biggest sundial today is in the Torne Valley, north of the
Arctic Circle. The Guinness Book of Records has put Pajala, northern Sweden,
on the map, and its sundial - formed as a "round square".
The sundial in Pajala, 38.33 m. in diameter, holds the world record,
according to the Guinness Book of Records. The previous record was held by
Disney World in Orlando, Florida, with 37.18 m

Don´t think in meters and feet, enjoy them.

Best wishes

Josef Pastor
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-

RE: Monumental Statistics?

[Andrew James]

On the North wall of the Close of Salisbury Cathedral, Wiltshire, England,
is a groove with the word MERIDIES, which is apparently a noon mark acting
in conjunction with the spire.  The spire is just over 400 feet (122 m) high
and the wall is nearly that far from its base.  It was mentioned in BSS
Bulletin 91.3 pp22-23 and also in Peter Ransom's "A Dozen Dials".  I hope to
publish some more about it in the BSS Bulletin in the near(ish) future.  

Of course it's not as big as Mont St Michel (see
http://maget.maget.free.fr/SiteMont/ for some details of that temporary
dial) but it beats most other things - but wasn't there once a (now
non-existent?) "mountain dial" with markers on the hillside somewhere?

However the "volume" definition of size is a very good one for eliminating a
noon mark!

Andrew James
N 51 04' W 01 18' 
-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[John Carmichael]

Hey, that's cheating!

I don't think noon marks should count when we consider monumental sundial
statistics since there is no dial face indicating multiple hours, dates,
altitudes, or anything else except a noon mark.

John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
- Original Message -
From: "Andrew James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 2:07 AM
Subject: RE: Monumental Statistics?


> On the North wall of the Close of Salisbury Cathedral, Wiltshire, England,
> is a groove with the word MERIDIES, which is apparently a noon mark acting
> in conjunction with the spire.  The spire is just over 400 feet (122 m)
high
> and the wall is nearly that far from its base.  It was mentioned in BSS
> Bulletin 91.3 pp22-23 and also in Peter Ransom's "A Dozen Dials".  I hope
to
> publish some more about it in the BSS Bulletin in the near(ish) future.
>
> Of course it's not as big as Mont St Michel (see
> http://maget.maget.free.fr/SiteMont/ for some details of that temporary
> dial) but it beats most other things - but wasn't there once a (now
> non-existent?) "mountain dial" with markers on the hillside somewhere?
>
> However the "volume" definition of size is a very good one for eliminating
a
> noon mark!
>
> Andrew James
> N 51 04' W 01 18'
> -
>

-

Re: Monumental Statistics

[John Carmichael]

It appears that they used face diameter (38.33m) as the criteria to support
their claim. To compare it to the other sundials on our list, we need to
convert this to area. This is 1153m sq. This puts it behind Jaipur's 1932m
sq. but slightly ahead of Disney's 1039m sq. Kitt Peak, by this criteria is
left in the dust at 685m sq.

John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
- Original Message -
From: "Josef Pastor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics


> What´s about this SD in Sweden:
>
> http://www.pajala.se/welcome/tourism/soltorg.shtml
>
> On the homepage you can read:
> The world's biggest sundial today is in the Torne Valley, north of the
> Arctic Circle. The Guinness Book of Records has put Pajala, northern
Sweden,
> on the map, and its sundial - formed as a "round square".
> The sundial in Pajala, 38.33 m. in diameter, holds the world record,
> according to the Guinness Book of Records. The previous record was held by
> Disney World in Orlando, Florida, with 37.18 m
>
> Don´t think in meters and feet, enjoy them.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Josef Pastor
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
>

-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[John Carmichael]

I also think we should disqualify sundials that no longer 
exist. (Agustus and Mont Saint Michel)
John
 
John L. Carmichael Jr.Sundial Sculptures925 E. Foothills 
Dr.Tucson Arizona 85718USA
 
Tel: 520-696-1709Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Website: 
<http://www.sundialsculptures.com>

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de 
  Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:50 PM
  Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics?
  6-16-02In an article in Volume 2 Number 4 of The 
  Compendium,  I briefly discussed sundial size using the Jaipur, Disney 
  and Augustus sundials.  I compared them using isometric drawings that I 
  made.  On the basis of area occupied by each dial, I calculated the 
  following:Augustus   -   103000 sq. 
  ft.Jaipur   -   21000 sq. ft.Disney  
  -  11300 sq. ft.The Guiness Book of Records, the last time I 
  looked, listed the Disney Dial as the world's largest.  When I questioned 
  them about their basis, I received no answer!Hal Brandmaier  
  

Re: Monumental Statistics

[Jean-Paul Cornec]

If you sort by the surface, the total area filled by the hour lines of the
sundial on the Place de la Concorde in Paris is 85 x 142 m, that is 12000 m
sq. The Obelisk is 33 m high.

Jean-Paul

- Original Message -
From: John Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics


> It appears that they used face diameter (38.33m) as the criteria to
support
> their claim. To compare it to the other sundials on our list, we need to
> convert this to area. This is 1153m sq. This puts it behind Jaipur's 1932m
> sq. but slightly ahead of Disney's 1039m sq. Kitt Peak, by this criteria
is
> left in the dust at 685m sq.
>
> John
>
> John L. Carmichael Jr.
> Sundial Sculptures
> 925 E. Foothills Dr.
> Tucson Arizona 85718
> USA


-

Re: Monumental Statistics

[John Carmichael]

Does this sundial currently exist?
John

John L. Carmichael Jr.
Sundial Sculptures
925 E. Foothills Dr.
Tucson Arizona 85718
USA

Tel: 520-696-1709
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
- Original Message -
From: "Jean-Paul Cornec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics


> If you sort by the surface, the total area filled by the hour lines of the
> sundial on the Place de la Concorde in Paris is 85 x 142 m, that is 12000
m
> sq. The Obelisk is 33 m high.
>
> Jean-Paul
>
> - Original Message -
> From: John Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics
>
>
> > It appears that they used face diameter (38.33m) as the criteria to
> support
> > their claim. To compare it to the other sundials on our list, we need to
> > convert this to area. This is 1153m sq. This puts it behind Jaipur's
1932m
> > sq. but slightly ahead of Disney's 1039m sq. Kitt Peak, by this criteria
> is
> > left in the dust at 685m sq.
> >
> > John
> >
> > John L. Carmichael Jr.
> > Sundial Sculptures
> > 925 E. Foothills Dr.
> > Tucson Arizona 85718
> > USA
>
>
> -
>

-

Re: Monumental Statistics

[Jean-Paul Cornec]

Yes it still does. In not a very good state, as lines and digits are not as
striking as they were originally. Indeed lines were drawn on busy streets
surrounding the Obelisk and most digits on pavement crowded with tourists.

Jean-Paul

- Original Message -
From: John Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics


> Does this sundial currently exist?
> John
>
> John L. Carmichael Jr.
> Sundial Sculptures
> 925 E. Foothills Dr.
> Tucson Arizona 85718
> USA
>
> Tel: 520-696-1709
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jean-Paul Cornec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics
>
>
> > If you sort by the surface, the total area filled by the hour lines of
the
> > sundial on the Place de la Concorde in Paris is 85 x 142 m, that is
12000
> m
> > sq. The Obelisk is 33 m high.
> >
> > Jean-Paul
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: John Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: Monumental Statistics
> >
> >
> > > It appears that they used face diameter (38.33m) as the criteria to
> > support
> > > their claim. To compare it to the other sundials on our list, we need
to
> > > convert this to area. This is 1153m sq. This puts it behind Jaipur's
> 1932m
> > > sq. but slightly ahead of Disney's 1039m sq. Kitt Peak, by this
criteria
> > is
> > > left in the dust at 685m sq.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > John L. Carmichael Jr.
> > > Sundial Sculptures
> > > 925 E. Foothills Dr.
> > > Tucson Arizona 85718
> > > USA
> >
> >
> > -
> >
>
> -

-

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[fer j. de vries]

John,
 
You made the following two statements
 
1. I don't think noon marks should count when 
we consider monumental sundialstatistics since there is no dial face 
indicating multiple hours, dates,altitudes, or anything else except a noon 
mark.
2. I also think we should disqualify sundials 
that no longer exist. (Agustus and Mont Saint Michel)
 
Take my answer not too serious, but I don't agree with these statements.
See my remarks below.
 
1. A noon mark is a sundial, no doubt about 
that.
There are a number of beautiful meridians in 
churches and in fact they all are noon marks. I won't exclude them from any 
sundial competition.
 
2. And what about the largest pancake? It's long 
eaten but you have to bake a larger one to get a new record. A record 
holds, even if the subject is disappeared.
On the other hand, parts of the dial of August 
still exist, 8 meters below streetlevel ! as Buchner wrote in his 
book.
And the gnomon of Mont St. Michel still 
is present. The cathedral, the island and the beach didn't 
disappear. 
 
In the former discussion I suggested the earth as 
largest sundial.
As an astronaut on the moon it must have been a 
beautiful sundial to look at and it can tell you the time at home. 

 
Best wishes, Fer.
 
 
Fer J. de Vriesmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/Eindhoven, Netherlandslat.  51:30 
N  long.  5:30 E
- Original Message - 
From: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: Monumental 
Statistics?

Re: Monumental Statistics?

[Edley McKnight]

Hi John and dialists all,

Well, people living in mountainous country often tell time by the shadows of 
the 
various prominences and ridges.  We are talking thousands of feet at the least 
here.

Even the moon's shadow moving across the earth tells some kind of time, and 
that is 
a far distance indeed.

Perhaps if the question is restated in terms of dials that are totally 
constructed 
by human agency for the sole purpose of sundials we could come to a better 
answer.  
In this case we couldn't include the Kitt Peak Dial.  In terms of the use of 
the 
shadows of fortuitous objects  to tell solar time, I don't think we can name 
the 
largest!

I don't believe we can go on the basis of the rate of movement of the shadow in 
linear terms at noon as a good measure of size, since there are projecting 
solar 
telescopes that have extreme rates of shadow movement, other multireflecting 
devices 
using non planar surfaces that also have very fast solar shadow movement.  Some 
of 
these fast moving sundials use the reflected light as well, so we would have to 
include direct light and shadow movement as a measure.  The shadow is, as I 
understand it, is kind of like a wet finger in the wind and tells us in 
combination 
with the gnomon and dial face the direction of the vast field of the sun's rays.
As a  result, perhaps the best measure would be the longest optical lever, but 
still 
some may be thousands of miles if we use the shadows of orbiting satellites to 
tell 
time.

After all that, I believe I would go with the measure of the largest, 
calibrated, 
dial face area as the best way to compare the kind of dials we are dealing with.

Does this make the contest easier?

Edley

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Monumental Statistics?

[GinnyandHalB]

Hal Brandmaier