Re: Slopes and inclinations (2)
Hi Edley, Since I began with sundials, I wondered about this eot thing, the british say that in januari the sun is fast, yet the definition of eot is: the difference: mean time minus real time, on the same moment. As man invented mean time, I think the eot curve , starting to go up from 26 december and all through januari & half februari, is the right way, because in januari one has to add the value of the eot to the time indicated by the gnomon of a longitudonal corrected sundial, and this value is in januari positive, in other words, one can reference to the sun for the man-invented time machine, and not the other way. Do you agree ? My best Belgian salutations, Walter, +50.42 -4.33 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
Re: Slopes and inclinations
Anselmo Pérez Serrada wrote: > Hi everyone,Now that you're talking about drainage inclinations, > I'd like to pose a lexical question: Which is the > difference between 'inclination' and 'slope'? As far as I can see, I > gather that in English both are interchangeable terms that denoteso > the angle between some plane with the vertical line as also the angle > made with the(horizontal) ground. You can only notice the difference > through the context. In Spanish (and I suppose in other Latin > languages) there is a difference, not alwaysobserved, between > 'inclinacion' (=inclination?) and 'pendiente' (=slope?): the first > oneis the angle between the plane and the vertical line and the second > one is itscomplementary. That's why we talk about 'La torre inclinada > de Pisa' (the leaning towerof Pisa) but not 'La torre pendiente de > Pisa'. I am telling that because sometimes English documents are > confusing and maybe itcould be useful to establish that difference in > the standard technical gnomonic lingo: * Slope: Angle between a > plane's maximum slope line and its horizontal projection.* > Inclination: Angle between a plane's maximum slope line and a vertical > line intersecting it. (Obviously, both are terms are linked by Slope = > 90 deg - Inclination) I haven't found any reference to this in my > English dictionaries, so maybe my proposal isa gramatical aberration: > that's why I am making this question! Cheers, Anselmo ¡Hola, Anselmo! Hello, everyone! In French, which is another Latin language, we would not say that a tower (or wall) is "incliné", but rather that it is "penché": the latter word is is used with respect to either the vertical or the horizontal, however. The example above are clearly wrt vertical, but we also say that a frame "penche à droite" if its right side is lower on the horizontal than its left side; also for the weighing instrument, we say "faire pencher la balance". The same with the word "incliné" or "inclinaison": it can be either wrt vertical or horizontal, but you don't say "une tour inclinée" even though you can say that "l'inclinaison de la tour" becomes dangerous. "Inclinaison" is also used for the difference between the true North and the magnetic one. Actually, you can use "inclinaison" with respect to any reference surface or line. Yet another word is "la pente" (ES: "pendiente"), which is always wrt the horizontal. That's the word you would use for draining the water off a surface: "une pente de 1cm/m" is a minimum ;-) Sorry for being off topic again, I should maybe have responded only to you Anselmo, but look, I did not write in Spanish... Cheers! -- __ Thierry vs 50.5N 4.3E mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ -
Re: Slopes and inclinations (2)
Hi Anselmo, I believe that the difference between the two systems of EoT is that one is the reciprocal function. That is that one is from solar to standard where the other is from standard to solar. There does seem to be a difference of opinion on which is correct, solar or standard time. I vote my vote for solar. :-) Thanks by the way for your other notes too! Edley [43.126N 126.527W] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Hi all, > > I think it's OK with John Davis definitions of inclination as the angle = > to the=20 horizontal and reclination as the angle to the vertical, both as > = technical terms and regardless our rich and venerable common languages > could say... The problem is that in some articles I have seen the = > 'inclination' defined in the opposite way, and I wanted to know if there > was some philological reason in it. I wouldn't like to deepen into it > because I = am not philologist and maybe the thread could drift to some > awkward topic quite away from sundials, you know what I mean ;-) > > Anyhow, I think it's desirable to have good standarization rules, and > perhaps maybe somebody should complete the excellent list of symbols=20 > and terms made by the people at the BSS so as to internationalize it. (Did > you know that in some countries, like France and Spain, the = equation of > time is defined just the opposite way than in the USA and UK ?... Oh = no, > here we are again!!! :-) > > Anselmo Perez Serrada=20 >=20 > =20 > > > > --=_NextPart_000_005C_01C1C9FE.24560D60 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > > Hi all, > > I think it's OK with John Davis = > definitions of=20 > inclination as the angle to the > horizontal and reclination as the angle = > to the=20 vertical, both as technical size=3D2>terms and regardless our rich and = venerable common=20 languages > could say... The problem is > that in some = articles I have=20 seen the 'inclination' > defined in the opposite way, and I = > wanted to know=20 if there was some size=3D2>philological reason in it. I wouldn't = like to=20 deepen into it > because I am not philologist > and maybe the thread = could drift to=20 some awkward topic > quite away from sundials, you = > know what I=20 mean > ;-) > Anyhow, I think it's desirable to = > have good=20 standarization rules, and face=3DArial size=3D2>perhaps maybe somebody should complete = the=20 > excellent list of symbols size=3D2>and terms made by the people at the = BSS so as=20 to > internationalize it. (Did > you know that in some countries, = like France=20 and Spain, the > equation of time is defined > just the opposite = way=20 than in the USA and UK ?... Oh no, > here we are again!!! > :-) > Anselmo Perez = > Serrada size=3D2> > face=3DArial size=3D2> > > --=_NextPart_000_005C_01C1C9FE.24560D60-- > > - > -
Re: Slopes and inclinations- The Tower of Pisa is "pendente" and not "inclinata"
Hi Anselmo et all, it is wrong to say 'La torre inclinada de Pisa' (the leaning tower of Pisa) while it is correct to say 'La torre pendiente de Pisa'. ..." :-) In Italian , in mathematics and in science, the two words "pendenza" (slope ?) and "inclinazione" (inclination) are equivalent and, as Ron write, they mean "the degree of deviation from a definite direction, especially from the horizontal or vertical". In common Italian there is a small difference betweens the two words, but different from that described by Anselmo. "Pendenza" in fact means the property of an object that has been moved from the vertical position (less commonly that has been moved from the horizontal one ) For this we say that the Tower in Pisa is "pendente" (leaning) , that is, it has a certain inclination from the vertical direction(as the bell tower of my town - 85 m) and never we say that the tower is "inclinata" Only a technician (engineer or architect) perhaps write that the Tower is "inclinata (has an inclination) of xx degrees" Maybe because the verb "pendere" (to be inclined) means also "to be hung" ( for ex.."the hams "pendono" ( hang ) from the ceiling) With a smile Gianni Ferrari P.S. There is also an old popular song that says "Evviva la Torre di Pisa che pende, che pende e che mai non viene giú.. " "Hurrah for the Tower of Pisa that "pende" (is leanening), that "pende" and never comes down .." :-) Lat.44o 39' N Long. 10o 55' E mailto : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
Re: Slopes and inclinations
MMB wrote: > > Anselmo, you have taught us all something. In English, too, we would > never say "the inclining tower of Pisa" :-) On the other hand, you have NO OTHER way to say but "inclined tower of Pisa" (Torre inclinada de Pisa). But who cares to say it is "inclinada?". Just say Torre de Pisa and... it is clear what you meant. - fernando -- REDUZIR, REUSAR, RECICLAR -- Dever de todos, amor aos que virão REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE -- Everybody's duty, love to those who are to come Fernando CabralPadrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W -
Re: Slopes and inclinations
Hello all, I am sorry, I must make a correction. 12/12 is the equivalent of 45°...I have not had my coffee yet... I guess that is what I get for being off-topic... Jim Tallman Artisan Industrials Corp.
Re: Slopes and inclinations
Hello, In the pure architectural sense slope is expressed as the ratio between vertical(the rise) and horizontal(the run). This is most commonly used when designing and specifying roof pitches. We commonly use 3/12 and 4/12 roof pitches on the homes we design based on the average rainfall for this region. That is 3" rise to 12" of run, or 4" rise to 12" of run. 6/12 is the equivalent of 45°. Framer's squares have the inch markings arranged in such a way as to make it easy to figure the rate of slope in the field (or on a ladder), much easier than using a protractor or plumbline arrangement to define or check an angular measurement. Jim Tallman Artisan Industrials Corp. Anselmo Pérez Serrada wrote: Hi everyone, Now that you're talking about drainage inclinations, I'd like to pose a lexical question: Which is the difference between 'inclination' and 'slope'? As far as I can see, I gather that in English both are interchangeable terms that denoteso the angle between some plane with the vertical line as also the angle made with the(horizontal) ground. You can only notice the difference through the context. In Spanish (and I suppose in other Latin languages) there is a difference, not alwaysobserved, between 'inclinacion' (=inclination?) and 'pendiente' (=slope?): the first oneis the angle between the plane and the vertical line and the second one is itscomplementary. That's why we talk about 'La torre inclinada de Pisa' (the leaning towerof Pisa) but not 'La torre pendiente de Pisa'. I am telling that because sometimes English documents are confusing and maybe itcould be useful to establish that difference in the standard technical gnomonic lingo: * Slope: Angle between a plane's maximum slope line and its horizontal projection.* Inclination: Angle between a plane's maximum slope line and a vertical line intersecting it. (Obviously, both are terms are linked by Slope = 90 deg - Inclination) I haven't found any reference to this in my English dictionaries, so maybe my proposal isa gramatical aberration: that's why I am making this question! Cheers, Anselmo
Re: Slopes and inclinations
Hi Anselmo et al, You're right - in English "slope" and "inclination" both refer to the angle to the horizontal. This applies both to general usage and the specialist gnomonic usage (as defined by the BSS Sundial Glossary at www.sundialsoc.org.uk) However, whilst the inclination is usually given as an angle, the slope is often a ratio, i.e. 1 in 100. The complimentary angle in gnomonic terms is the reclining angle, measured from the vertical. My preference is not to use this, though, and to stick to the inclination. It's nice to learn something of the origins of our strange language! Regards, John Davis N52d 05m, E1d 08m. -
Re: Slopes and inclinations
Anselmo Pérez Serrada wrote: "Now that you're talking about drainage inclinations, I'd like to pose a lexical question: Which is the difference between 'inclination' and 'slope'? As far as I can see, I gather that in English both are interchangeable terms that denote so the angle between some plane with the vertical line as also the angle made with the (horizontal) ground. You can only notice the difference through the context. In Spanish (and I suppose in other Latin languages) there is a difference, not always observed, between 'inclinacion' (=inclination?) and 'pendiente' (=slope?): the first one is the angle between the plane and the vertical line and the second one is its complementary. That's why we talk about 'La torre inclinada de Pisa' (the leaning tower of Pisa) but not 'La torre pendiente de Pisa'. ..." Anselmo, you have taught us all something. In English, too, we would never say "the inclining tower of Pisa" :-) Like much language use in English we don't know why, but you have given us an explanation. Maria Brandl 149deg E 34degS (roughly :-) -
Re: Slopes and inclinations
Anselmo, In the general you are correct. In English they basically mean the same. My dictionary says that slope is the "degree of deviation from the horizontal.: Whereas "inclination is the degree of deviation from a definite direction, especially from the horizontal or vertical." What I remember from Geometry tends to support the definition of slope. Also, slope in English seems to have come from "to slip". ++ron - Original Message - From: Anselmo Pérez Serrada To: Sundial, Mailinglist Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 2:21 AM Subject: Slopes and inclinations Hi everyone, Now that you're talking about drainage inclinations, I'd like to pose a lexical question: Which is the difference between 'inclination' and 'slope'? As far as I can see, I gather that in English both are interchangeable terms that denote so the angle between some plane with the vertical line as also the angle made with the (horizontal) ground. You can only notice the difference through the context. In Spanish (and I suppose in other Latin languages) there is a difference, not always observed, between 'inclinacion' (=inclination?) and 'pendiente' (=slope?): the first one is the angle between the plane and the vertical line and the second one is its complementary. That's why we talk about 'La torre inclinada de Pisa' (the leaning tower of Pisa) but not 'La torre pendiente de Pisa'. I am telling that because sometimes English documents are confusing and maybe it could be useful to establish that difference in the standard technical gnomonic lingo: * Slope: Angle between a plane's maximum slope line and its horizontal projection. * Inclination: Angle between a plane's maximum slope line and a vertical line intersecting it. (Obviously, both are terms are linked by Slope = 90 deg - Inclination) I haven't found any reference to this in my English dictionaries, so maybe my proposal is a gramatical aberration: that's why I am making this question! Cheers, Anselmo
