Re: church interior dial

[Richard Langley]

There is an interesting article on the stations of the cross -- and variations
and dates in churches -- in the catholic encyclopedia:

-- Richard Langley

On Thu, 11 May 2006, Frans W. Maes wrote:

>Hi Frank,
>
>In Roman Catholic churches I noted always 14 Stations, numbered I-XIV.
>Generally, they are placed symmetrically along the walls of the nave, thus
>nr. I-VII on one side and VIII-XIV on the other.
>
>Regards,
>Frans Maes
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Frank Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Sundial" 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:10 PM
>Subject: church interior dial
>
>
>> Greetings fellow dialists,
>> This is not really off topic, more off centre, perhaps. The church at
>> Dalton-le-Dale, County Durham, England has what until now has been
>> thought two dials. One is an important Anglo-Saxon dial of around 700
>> AD, mounted on a later wall. The other, the object of my question, is a
>> series of numbers on the inside north wall of the nave of this
>> thirteenth century church.
>>
>> Mrs. Gatty describes them incorrectly: "There are some remains of a dial
>> on an interior wall of St. Andrew's Church at Dalton-le-Dale; only the
>> numerals I to VII are to be seen now, and these are raised in relief
>> upon the plaster, and are said to conceal an older set of figures. The
>> hours would be shown when the sun shone through the south window."
>>
>> There is a story currently told that the sun shone on the easternmost
>> number on St. Andrew's saint's day, 30 November from a former hole in
>> the roof. Given the low angle of the noon sun on that day this is quite
>> impossible
>>
>> The numerals on the north wall of the nave are in fact VII to XII, not I
>> to VII, arranged linearly from west to east and occupy most of the
>> length of the wall at a height of about a metre. They were viewed by
>> members of the British Sundial Society during their meeting in Durham a
>> few weeks ago and the general consensus was that the numbers could not
>> be any form of time measure. A proposal was that they had been placed
>> under successive Stations of the Cross pictures and that they had
>> survived where the pictures and the numbers I to VI on the south wall
>> had not.
>>
>> My question is this: What is the history of Stations of the Cross in the
>> Church of England. Presumably some must be pre-Reformation but they
>> would generally have been extinguished by Cromwell's men and the puritan
>> movement. Could the numbers have survived, without pictures, from the
>> seventeenth century and a gradual story have grown up about their
>> representing a sort of sundial?
>>
>> Speculation welcome.
>> Frank 55N 1W
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/335 - Release Date: 09/05/2006
>>
>>
>> ---
>> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>>
>>
>
>---
>https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>


===
 Richard B. LangleyE-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Geodetic Research Laboratory  Web: http://www.unb.ca/GGE/
 Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics EngineeringPhone:+1 506 453-5142
 University of New Brunswick   Fax:  +1 506 453-4943
 Fredericton, N.B., Canada  E3B 5A3
 Fredericton?  Where's that?  See: http://www.city.fredericton.nb.ca/
===
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Re: church interior dial

[Gianni Ferrari]

The 14 numbers that are in all the Catholic churches refer to the Stations
of the Way of the Cross (in Latin, Via Crucis)  and don't have anything to
do with the hours of the day.

 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Cross)



Gianni Ferrari





- Original Message - 
From: "Frans W. Maes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Frank Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Sundial"

Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: church interior dial


> Hi Frank,
>
> In Roman Catholic churches I noted always 14 Stations, numbered I-XIV.
> Generally, they are placed symmetrically along the walls of the nave, thus
> nr. I-VII on one side and VIII-XIV on the other.
>
> Regards,
> Frans Maes


---
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Re: church interior dial

[Chris Lusby Taylor]

Hi All,
I didn't go on the BSS trip to see this church, but saw Tony Moss's picture.
I got the impression there was a I after the XII, which was why it seemed
like a sundial. But could that I be the only character left of XIII?

Regards
Chris

- Original Message - 
From: "Frans W. Maes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Frank Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Sundial"

Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: church interior dial


> Hi Frank,
>
> In Roman Catholic churches I noted always 14 Stations, numbered I-XIV.
> Generally, they are placed symmetrically along the walls of the nave, thus
> nr. I-VII on one side and VIII-XIV on the other.
>
> Regards,
> Frans Maes
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Frank Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Sundial" 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:10 PM
> Subject: church interior dial
>
>
> > Greetings fellow dialists,
> > This is not really off topic, more off centre, perhaps. The church at
> > Dalton-le-Dale, County Durham, England has what until now has been
> > thought two dials. One is an important Anglo-Saxon dial of around 700
> > AD, mounted on a later wall. The other, the object of my question, is a
> > series of numbers on the inside north wall of the nave of this
> > thirteenth century church.
> >
> > Mrs. Gatty describes them incorrectly: "There are some remains of a dial
> > on an interior wall of St. Andrew's Church at Dalton-le-Dale; only the
> > numerals I to VII are to be seen now, and these are raised in relief
> > upon the plaster, and are said to conceal an older set of figures. The
> > hours would be shown when the sun shone through the south window."
> >
> > There is a story currently told that the sun shone on the easternmost
> > number on St. Andrew's saint's day, 30 November from a former hole in
> > the roof. Given the low angle of the noon sun on that day this is quite
> > impossible
> >
> > The numerals on the north wall of the nave are in fact VII to XII, not I
> > to VII, arranged linearly from west to east and occupy most of the
> > length of the wall at a height of about a metre. They were viewed by
> > members of the British Sundial Society during their meeting in Durham a
> > few weeks ago and the general consensus was that the numbers could not
> > be any form of time measure. A proposal was that they had been placed
> > under successive Stations of the Cross pictures and that they had
> > survived where the pictures and the numbers I to VI on the south wall
> > had not.
> >
> > My question is this: What is the history of Stations of the Cross in the
> > Church of England. Presumably some must be pre-Reformation but they
> > would generally have been extinguished by Cromwell's men and the puritan
> > movement. Could the numbers have survived, without pictures, from the
> > seventeenth century and a gradual story have grown up about their
> > representing a sort of sundial?
> >
> > Speculation welcome.
> > Frank 55N 1W
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/335 - Release Date:
09/05/2006
> >
> >
> > ---
> > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
> >
> >
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>

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Re: church interior dial

[Frans W. Maes]

Hi Frank,

In Roman Catholic churches I noted always 14 Stations, numbered I-XIV.
Generally, they are placed symmetrically along the walls of the nave, thus
nr. I-VII on one side and VIII-XIV on the other.

Regards,
Frans Maes

- Original Message - 
From: "Frank Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sundial" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: church interior dial


> Greetings fellow dialists,
> This is not really off topic, more off centre, perhaps. The church at
> Dalton-le-Dale, County Durham, England has what until now has been
> thought two dials. One is an important Anglo-Saxon dial of around 700
> AD, mounted on a later wall. The other, the object of my question, is a
> series of numbers on the inside north wall of the nave of this
> thirteenth century church.
>
> Mrs. Gatty describes them incorrectly: "There are some remains of a dial
> on an interior wall of St. Andrew's Church at Dalton-le-Dale; only the
> numerals I to VII are to be seen now, and these are raised in relief
> upon the plaster, and are said to conceal an older set of figures. The
> hours would be shown when the sun shone through the south window."
>
> There is a story currently told that the sun shone on the easternmost
> number on St. Andrew's saint's day, 30 November from a former hole in
> the roof. Given the low angle of the noon sun on that day this is quite
> impossible
>
> The numerals on the north wall of the nave are in fact VII to XII, not I
> to VII, arranged linearly from west to east and occupy most of the
> length of the wall at a height of about a metre. They were viewed by
> members of the British Sundial Society during their meeting in Durham a
> few weeks ago and the general consensus was that the numbers could not
> be any form of time measure. A proposal was that they had been placed
> under successive Stations of the Cross pictures and that they had
> survived where the pictures and the numbers I to VI on the south wall
> had not.
>
> My question is this: What is the history of Stations of the Cross in the
> Church of England. Presumably some must be pre-Reformation but they
> would generally have been extinguished by Cromwell's men and the puritan
> movement. Could the numbers have survived, without pictures, from the
> seventeenth century and a gradual story have grown up about their
> representing a sort of sundial?
>
> Speculation welcome.
> Frank 55N 1W
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/335 - Release Date: 09/05/2006
>
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>

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