Sundial on the Moon?
Dear dialists, I have heard and seen pictures of that sundial placed in Mars but I have never heard of a sundial on the Moon... Does anybody know something about this? Such a sundial would be 'more or less' similar to one on the Earth... except for the small wobbling of the Moon's orbit (around 5,5 deg) on the equator's plane which would mess the hour lines. But I am waiting for NASA to send a spaceship to Mercury's surface, because a sundial there would be most curious... do you guess why? Best regards, Anselmo Perez Serrada -
Re: sundial on the moon
Hello Ken, Since I don't have the skills myself, I'm hoping someone on this list will accept your challenge to design a sundial for Armstrong's landing site, and share the design with us. Best wishes, Mac Oglesby Hi everyone, I finally got to meet Homer Hickam the author of Rocket Boys at the Science and Engineering Festival in Washington DC. I designed a sundial based on the book (file attached) in 2004 while doing educational sundial displays telling people about the two sundials that NASA put on the Mars rovers. I am now reading his new book Crater which is about people living on the moon in the future. He talks about the long shadow, periods of darkness, when the sun is not up. What would a horizontal sundial look like on the moon at the Neil Armstrong landing site? What kind of time system would be used on the moon? I am just looking for some ideas to suggest to him to include a sundial in his next book. Thanks in advanced. Ken Clark Elizabethtown, PA Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:onebkpic (2).jpg (/«IC») (003222A2) --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: sundial on the moon
>From a point on the moon, the suns motion is probably not smooth enough to >build a usable sundial to measure a lunar day (which is close to a terrestrial >month). And using 'earth light' on a lunar based dial would probably not be very effective either, since the earth's position in the lunar sky, except for minor variations, is mostly constant from any position on the moon. Sent from my BlackBerry. -Original Message- From: Mac Oglesby Sender: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 10:36:20 To: Cc: Sundial Mailing List Subject: Re: sundial on the moon Hello Ken, Since I don't have the skills myself, I'm hoping someone on this list will accept your challenge to design a sundial for Armstrong's landing site, and share the design with us. Best wishes, Mac Oglesby >Hi everyone, > > I finally got to meet Homer Hickam the >author of Rocket Boys at the Science and >Engineering Festival in Washington DC. I >designed a sundial based on the book (file >attached) in 2004 while doing educational >sundial displays telling people about the two >sundials that NASA put on the Mars rovers. > I am now reading his new book Crater which >is about people living on the moon in the >future. He talks about the long shadow, periods >of darkness, when the sun is not up. What would >a horizontal sundial look like on the moon at >the Neil Armstrong landing site? What kind of >time system would be used on the moon? > I am just looking for some ideas to suggest >to him to include a sundial in his next book. >Thanks in advanced. >Ken Clark >Elizabethtown, PA > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:onebkpic (2).jpg (/«IC») (003222A2) >--- >https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
A sundial on the Moon
Help please. Under circumstances that I will not bore you with, Tony Moss and I had dinner this week with Dr Joe P.Allen, (the American astronaut) and that well known English eccentric and astronomer Sir Patrick Moore. Naturally, our main topic of conversation was sundials, and there was some talk of the Mars sundial. We also talked about this sundial mailing list, and what a wealth of knowledge is contained in it. Patrick Moore then asked if we could design a sundial, to be placed on the moon at "Tranquility Base" - Joe Allen to be responsible for getting it there!! Should a successful dial be designed, he might feature it on his "The Sky at Night" television programme. Tony has offered to make it. So, we have a challenge I regret that I don't know much about the Moon. I guess with a day of 27 days or so, we won't be able to use Earth time. Tony has suggested a "Luna", subdivided, naturally, into "tics". All help and any suggestions for a design would be greatly appreciated. Mike Shaw Wirral, UK 53' 22" N 03" 02" W
RE: Sundial on the Moon?
Mercury rotates around the sun at the same rate that it rotates around it's axis. Archie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] But I am waiting for NASA to send a spaceship to Mercury's surface, because a sundial there would be most curious... do you guess why? Best regards, Anselmo Perez Serrada - -
RE: Sundial on the Moon?
More recent data, by radar in 1965, showed the rotational period was 58.6 days, 2/3 the orbital period or Mercury year of 88 days. Noon on a sundial on Mercury will show midnight one Mercury year later and noon again only after two Mercury years. A Mercury day is two Mercury years long! For details and sketches, see http://www.mira.org/fts0/planets/092/text/txt001x.htm or whatever else googling "Mercury rotation" brings up for you. Good question. Thanks Anselmo. Roger Bailey Walking Shadow Designs N 48.6 W 123.4 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Archie Kregear Sent: September 12, 2005 5:45 AM To: 'anselmo'; sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Subject: RE: Sundial on the Moon? Mercury rotates around the sun at the same rate that it rotates around it's axis. Archie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] But I am waiting for NASA to send a spaceship to Mercury's surface, because a sundial there would be most curious... do you guess why? Best regards, Anselmo Perez Serrada - - -
Re: Sundial on the Moon?
Dear dialists, I have heard and seen pictures of that sundial placed in Mars but I have never heard of a sundial on the Moon... Does anybody know something about this? Such a sundial would be 'more or less' similar to one on the Earth... except for the small wobbling of the Moon's orbit (around 5,5 deg) on the equator's plane which would mess the hour lines. But I am waiting for NASA to send a spaceship to Mercury's surface, because a sundial there would be most curious... do you guess why? Best regards, Anselmo Perez Serrada You're probably referring to the fact that there are only (and exactly) 1.5 'days' in a 'year'! The equatorial inclination is apparently small, so there would be much less declination effect, but the eccentricity is very high. Should be quite a challange to lay out... Dave -
Re: Sundial on the Moon?
-Bill In a message dated 9/12/2005 12:01:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But I am waiting for NASA to send a spaceship to Mercury's surface, because a sundial there would be most curious... do you guess why? Best regards, Anselmo Perez Serrada
Re: A sundial on the Moon
> Patrick Moore then asked if we could design a sundial, to be placed on the > moon at "Tranquility Base" - Joe Allen to be responsible for getting it > there!! > So, we have a challenge Indeed! This is worth thinking over. > > I regret that I don't know much about the Moon. > I guess with a day of 27 days or so, we won't be able to use Earth time. > Tony has suggested a "Luna", subdivided, naturally, into "tics". This sounds like Tony, and is a delight! Lunar tics indeed! John
Re: A sundial on the Moon
Hello Moon Diallists, There is a sun dial on the Moon! With Apollo 17 a gnomon (vertical rod) is placed on the moon and with this instrument it is possible to read the position of the sun. Let's transport a camera to this spot and we may read this dial at home. Or is there still a camera? Just as proposed for the Mars dial we can add any hour, day, altitude, azimut, . pattern as we like. So it is very easy to make our Moondial. In "Jahresschrift 2000" of the "Deutsche Gesellschaft für Chronometrie" an article by Heinz Sigmund about extraterrestial dials is published. In that article also the Apollo17 gnomon is mentioned. Best wishes, Fer. Fer J. de Vries [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/ Eindhoven, Netherlands lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E - Original Message - From: The Shaws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sundial, List Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: A sundial on the Moon > Help please. > > Under circumstances that I will not bore you with, Tony Moss and I had > dinner this week with Dr Joe P.Allen, (the American astronaut) and that well > known English eccentric and astronomer Sir Patrick Moore. > Naturally, our main topic of conversation was sundials, and there was some > talk of the Mars sundial. > We also talked about this sundial mailing list, and what a wealth of > knowledge is contained in it. > > Patrick Moore then asked if we could design a sundial, to be placed on the > moon at "Tranquility Base" - Joe Allen to be responsible for getting it > there!! > Should a successful dial be designed, he might feature it on his "The Sky at > Night" television programme. > Tony has offered to make it. > > So, we have a challenge > > I regret that I don't know much about the Moon. > I guess with a day of 27 days or so, we won't be able to use Earth time. > Tony has suggested a "Luna", subdivided, naturally, into "tics". > > All help and any suggestions for a design would be greatly appreciated. > > > Mike Shaw > > Wirral, UK > 53' 22" N > 03" 02" W > > >
Re: A sundial on the Moon
Hello all: If we use a lunar sundial to determine the length of a lunar day (27 earth days), and we are already familiar with the terms full, half and quarter moons, then it would be convenient if there were 100 tics in a lunar day. If 100 tics equal 27 earth days then 1 tic = .27days = 6.48 hours = 388.8 minutes. On the moon, the sun moves across the 180 degrees of sky in half a lunar day: 27/2 = 13.5 earth days (50 tics). So, 50 tics = 180 degrees or 1 tic = 50/180 = .28 degrees. If a good Tony Moss sundial has 1 minute accuracy on the earth, this means it is accurate to 15deg./60 min. = .25 deg./minute. By coincidence, a high quality lunar sundial will be accurate down to the nearest tic! (6.48 earth hours). For lack of a working camera at any of the lunar landing sites, you might be able to use one of the moon's tall mountain peaks as a perpendicular gnomon with the mountain peak serving as the nodus. These mountains are usualy located at the center of large craters. Using a computer and a telescopic earth cam, you could digitally superimpose an image of the sundial face onto an image of the mountain's shadow on the crater's flat floor. john John L. Carmichael Jr. Sundial Sculptures 925 E. Foothills Dr. Tucson Arizona 85718 USA Tel: 520-696-1709 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: <http://www.sundialsculptures.com> - Original Message - From: "John Schilke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Shaws" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Sundial, List" Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:26 AM Subject: Re: A sundial on the Moon > > Patrick Moore then asked if we could design a sundial, to be placed on the > > moon at "Tranquility Base" - Joe Allen to be responsible for getting it > > there!! > > So, we have a challenge > Indeed! This is worth thinking over. > > > > I regret that I don't know much about the Moon. > > I guess with a day of 27 days or so, we won't be able to use Earth time. > > Tony has suggested a "Luna", subdivided, naturally, into "tics". > This sounds like Tony, and is a delight! Lunar tics indeed! > > John > >
Re: A sundial on the Moon
John Carmichael wrote: > Hello all: > > If we use a lunar sundial to determine the length of a lunar day (27 earth > days), and we are already familiar with the terms full, half and quarter > moons, then it would be convenient if there were 100 tics in a lunar day. > > If 100 tics equal 27 earth days then 1 tic = .27days = 6.48 hours = 388.8 > minutes. > > On the moon, the sun moves across the 180 degrees of sky in half a lunar > day: 27/2 = 13.5 earth days (50 tics). So, 50 tics = 180 degrees or 1 tic = > 50/180 = .28 degrees. > > If a good Tony Moss sundial has 1 minute accuracy on the earth, this means > it is accurate to 15deg./60 min. = .25 deg./minute. > > By coincidence, a high quality lunar sundial will be accurate down to the > nearest tic! (6.48 earth hours). > I think John has made an error. If 50 tics = 180 degrees, then 1 tic = 180/50 =3.6 degrees. So a good Tony Moss sundial would be accurate to .28/3.6 or about 0.08 tics, which is half an earth hour. Chris Lusby Taylor Newbury, England 51.4N, 1.3W
Re: A sundial on the Moon
Hello extraterrestrial diallists ! Fer, is it possible to send us, as attached files, this article from Heinz SIGMUND ? In text mode it might not be too large to stay under a reasonnable limit of 30-40 ko ? Alain R.MORY 48°N 7°E "fer j. de vries" a écrit : > > Hello Moon Diallists, > > There is a sun dial on the Moon! > > With Apollo 17 a gnomon (vertical rod) is placed on the moon and with this > instrument it is possible to read the position of the sun. > Let's transport a camera to this spot and we may read this dial at home. > Or is there still a camera? > Just as proposed for the Mars dial we can add any hour, day, altitude, > azimut, . pattern as we like. > So it is very easy to make our Moondial. > > In "Jahresschrift 2000" of the "Deutsche Gesellschaft für Chronometrie" an > article by Heinz Sigmund about extraterrestial dials is published. > In that article also the Apollo17 gnomon is mentioned. > > Best wishes, Fer. > > Fer J. de Vries > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/ > Eindhoven, Netherlands > lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E > > - Original Message - > From: The Shaws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Sundial, List > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:55 AM > Subject: A sundial on the Moon > > > Help please. > > > > Under circumstances that I will not bore you with, Tony Moss and I had > > dinner this week with Dr Joe P.Allen, (the American astronaut) and that > well > > known English eccentric and astronomer Sir Patrick Moore. > > Naturally, our main topic of conversation was sundials, and there was some > > talk of the Mars sundial. > > We also talked about this sundial mailing list, and what a wealth of > > knowledge is contained in it. > > > > Patrick Moore then asked if we could design a sundial, to be placed on the > > moon at "Tranquility Base" - Joe Allen to be responsible for getting it > > there!! > > Should a successful dial be designed, he might feature it on his "The Sky > at > > Night" television programme. > > Tony has offered to make it. > > > > So, we have a challenge > > > > I regret that I don't know much about the Moon. > > I guess with a day of 27 days or so, we won't be able to use Earth time. > > Tony has suggested a "Luna", subdivided, naturally, into "tics". > > > > All help and any suggestions for a design would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Mike Shaw > > > > Wirral, UK > > 53' 22" N > > 03" 02" W > > > > > >
Re: A sundial on the Moon
Hello Alain, This is a too large job for me. The article is 17 pages and I have to scan them all. One page scanned will be some 200 kB. Otherwise you can't read anything on screen. I suggest to ask Heinz Sigmund if he still has an electronic copy. I have no adresses but perhaps he may answer to this mail. Best wishes, Fer. Fer J. de Vries [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/ Eindhoven, Netherlands lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E - Original Message - From: Alain MORY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: fer j. de vries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: The Shaws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sundial, List ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 8:43 PM Subject: Re: A sundial on the Moon > Hello extraterrestrial diallists ! > > Fer, is it possible to send us, as attached files, this article from > Heinz SIGMUND ? > In text mode it might not be too large to stay under a reasonnable limit > of 30-40 ko ? > > Alain R.MORY > 48°N 7°E > > > "fer j. de vries" a écrit : > > > > Hello Moon Diallists, > > > > There is a sun dial on the Moon! > > > > With Apollo 17 a gnomon (vertical rod) is placed on the moon and with this > > instrument it is possible to read the position of the sun. > > Let's transport a camera to this spot and we may read this dial at home. > > Or is there still a camera? > > Just as proposed for the Mars dial we can add any hour, day, altitude, > > azimut, . pattern as we like. > > So it is very easy to make our Moondial. > > > > In "Jahresschrift 2000" of the "Deutsche Gesellschaft für Chronometrie" an > > article by Heinz Sigmund about extraterrestial dials is published. > > In that article also the Apollo17 gnomon is mentioned. > > > > Best wishes, Fer. > > > > Fer J. de Vries > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/ > > Eindhoven, Netherlands > > lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E > > > > - Original Message - > > From: The Shaws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Sundial, List > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:55 AM > > Subject: A sundial on the Moon > > > > > Help please. > > > > > > Under circumstances that I will not bore you with, Tony Moss and I had > > > dinner this week with Dr Joe P.Allen, (the American astronaut) and that > > well > > > known English eccentric and astronomer Sir Patrick Moore. > > > Naturally, our main topic of conversation was sundials, and there was some > > > talk of the Mars sundial. > > > We also talked about this sundial mailing list, and what a wealth of > > > knowledge is contained in it. > > > > > > Patrick Moore then asked if we could design a sundial, to be placed on the > > > moon at "Tranquility Base" - Joe Allen to be responsible for getting it > > > there!! > > > Should a successful dial be designed, he might feature it on his "The Sky > > at > > > Night" television programme. > > > Tony has offered to make it. > > > > > > So, we have a challenge > > > > > > I regret that I don't know much about the Moon. > > > I guess with a day of 27 days or so, we won't be able to use Earth time. > > > Tony has suggested a "Luna", subdivided, naturally, into "tics". > > > > > > All help and any suggestions for a design would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > > Mike Shaw > > > > > > Wirral, UK > > > 53' 22" N > > > 03" 02" W > > > > > > > > > >
