Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[Ray_Net]

Mike C wrote, On 21/03/2012 06:18:

Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?
It works ok in Outlook, so you must use Outlook instead of SM who prefer 
to show "J" instead of the smiling icon.

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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[David E. Ross]

On 3/22/12 1:54 PM, NoOp wrote:
> On 03/20/2012 11:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>> On 3/20/12 10:18 PM, Mike C wrote:
>>> Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?
>>
>> There was an extensive discussion about Wingdings in Web pages, not so
>> long ago.  The conclusion is that, since this is contrary to the HTML
>> specifications, it is generally NOT allowed.  Only those special
>> characters that are part of the Unicode standard can be represented in
>> HTML.
> 
> @Mike: The thread is "Windings not showed on a html mail"
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:44:02 -0500
> Start of the thread is:
> Message-ID: 
> It's a long thread, so take a seat... BTW: you can use Wingdings in
> linux with appropriate font installed:
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/508/screenshotwingdingschar.png/
>  :-) - U+263A ☺
> 
> From one of my posts in that thread:I reckon that Windows users are out
> of luck given:
> 
> <http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=0#sclient=psy&hl=en&complete=0&site=webhp&source=hp&q=mozilla+%2Bwingdings+font&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=3e82efc6cc141df0&biw=1280&bih=741>
> 
> And the ongoing bug reports ('resolved/wontfix et al):
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424610
> [Wingdings-font characters display incorrectly; fontEncoding.properties
> hack is gone]
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429017
> [symbol font quirk (for ) not present on Windows even
> when it is supposed to be]
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450723
> [Emoticons from Outlook (using wingdings font) do not display properly
> in Thunderbird]
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90643
> [Does not render symbol font as commanded by CSS]
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31538
> [Mozilla can't display the Webdings font even it is installed on the
> client (wingdings font, symbol font)]
> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla_Web_Developer_FAQ#Why_aren.e2.80.99t_symbol.2fdingbat_fonts_working.3f>
> etc. etc.
> 
> Maybe switch to linux? :-) Odd since it's usually the linux user that
> misses 'features' in web browsers.
> 
> 
> 

  [snipping part of my own prior reply]

Even with Linux, whether Wingdings work depends on the recipient having
the same font as the sender.

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[NoOp]

On 03/20/2012 11:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 3/20/12 10:18 PM, Mike C wrote:
>> Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?
> 
> There was an extensive discussion about Wingdings in Web pages, not so
> long ago.  The conclusion is that, since this is contrary to the HTML
> specifications, it is generally NOT allowed.  Only those special
> characters that are part of the Unicode standard can be represented in
> HTML.

@Mike: The thread is "Windings not showed on a html mail"
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:44:02 -0500
Start of the thread is:
Message-ID: 
It's a long thread, so take a seat... BTW: you can use Wingdings in
linux with appropriate font installed:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/508/screenshotwingdingschar.png/
 :-) - U+263A ☺

From one of my posts in that thread:I reckon that Windows users are out
of luck given:

<http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=0#sclient=psy&hl=en&complete=0&site=webhp&source=hp&q=mozilla+%2Bwingdings+font&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=3e82efc6cc141df0&biw=1280&bih=741>

And the ongoing bug reports ('resolved/wontfix et al):
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424610
[Wingdings-font characters display incorrectly; fontEncoding.properties
hack is gone]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429017
[symbol font quirk (for ) not present on Windows even
when it is supposed to be]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450723
[Emoticons from Outlook (using wingdings font) do not display properly
in Thunderbird]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90643
[Does not render symbol font as commanded by CSS]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31538
[Mozilla can't display the Webdings font even it is installed on the
client (wingdings font, symbol font)]
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla_Web_Developer_FAQ#Why_aren.e2.80.99t_symbol.2fdingbat_fonts_working.3f>
etc. etc.

Maybe switch to linux? :-) Odd since it's usually the linux user that
misses 'features' in web browsers.



> 
> Since Wingdings are not supported by plain-text, ASCII-formatted E-mail,
> you would need to use HTML-formatted E-mail.  You would thus face the
> same restrictions imposed by the HTML specifications that apply to Web
> pages.
> 
> See:
> <http://www.unicode.org/>
> <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/named-character-references.html>
> (best viewed with JavaScript disabled before loading and with [View >
> Text Zoom > 150%])
> <http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/characters.html>
> <http://www.alanwood.net/demos/wingdings.html>
> 

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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[David E. Ross]

On 3/20/12 11:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 3/20/12 10:18 PM, Mike C wrote:
>> Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?
> 
> There was an extensive discussion about Wingdings in Web pages, not so
> long ago.  The conclusion is that, since this is contrary to the HTML
> specifications, it is generally NOT allowed.  Only those special
> characters that are part of the Unicode standard can be represented in
> HTML.
> 
> Since Wingdings are not supported by plain-text, ASCII-formatted E-mail,
> you would need to use HTML-formatted E-mail.  You would thus face the
> same restrictions imposed by the HTML specifications that apply to Web
> pages.
> 
> See:
> <http://www.unicode.org/>
> <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/named-character-references.html>
> (best viewed with JavaScript disabled before loading and with [View >
> Text Zoom > 150%])
> <http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/characters.html>
> <http://www.alanwood.net/demos/wingdings.html>
> 

One thing to remember is that Wingdings, Digbats, and other such symbol
fonts were never intended for use with the Internet.  They were intended
for use in preparing hard-copy documents (e.g., via Word).

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[NoOp]

On 03/21/2012 04:19 AM, Philip Chee wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:19:36 -0300, MCBastos wrote:
> 
>> Yes, Windows and Macs usually do have this font installed. So what? This
>> is no longer a Windows-only world. For instance, AFAIK Android phones
>> and tablets don't come with a Wingdings-compatible font. Same, I think,
>> for Blackberries.
> 
> But Androids and iOS do come with Emoji compatible fonts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji


> 
> Phil (insert emoji for laughing cat here)
> 

U+1F63A
😺


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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[MCBastos]

Interviewed by CNN on 21/03/2012 08:19, Philip Chee told the world:
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:19:36 -0300, MCBastos wrote:
> 
>> Yes, Windows and Macs usually do have this font installed. So what? This
>> is no longer a Windows-only world. For instance, AFAIK Android phones
>> and tablets don't come with a Wingdings-compatible font. Same, I think,
>> for Blackberries.
> 
> But Androids and iOS do come with Emoji compatible fonts.
> 
> Phil (insert emoji for laughing cat here)
> 

Interesting, I had to look that up. From what I read, I understand that
emoji have been incorporated into Unicode 6. I didn't find out if the
ios and android implementations use Unicode or the older Japanese
encoding. BUT, even under the Japanese encoding, it should be possible
to unambigously encode emoji in messages/HTML by simply specifying the
correct code page, making it possible to use any font that includes the
emoji character range for rendering.

Not so with Wingdings, which don't have their own codepages -- they
mostly replace glyphs on the standard Western European codepages with
custom glyphs. The different versions of Wingdings each use the same
codepoint for different glyphs, even. The only way to get the correct
glyph is to select a specific font.

-- 
MCBastos

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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[Philip Chee]

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:19:36 -0300, MCBastos wrote:

> Yes, Windows and Macs usually do have this font installed. So what? This
> is no longer a Windows-only world. For instance, AFAIK Android phones
> and tablets don't come with a Wingdings-compatible font. Same, I think,
> for Blackberries.

But Androids and iOS do come with Emoji compatible fonts.

Phil (insert emoji for laughing cat here)

-- 
Philip Chee , 
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[MCBastos]

Interviewed by CNN on 21/03/2012 02:18, Mike C told the world:
> Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?

I don't think so. Not easily, anyway. The problem with
wingdings/webdings and other dingbat fonts is that they aren't Unicode
fonts, so there's no way to provide a "fallback" glyph if the recipient
happens to not have that particular font: the recipient has to have a
compatible font, that is, one with the the glyphs in the exact same
order, AND to be configured to map the fonts correctly if they don't
have the exact same name.

Since e-mail (and Webmaking, for that matter) is a medium where you have
*no* control over the environment where it will be read, this is
discouraged -- because it's a recipe for broken pages.

Say you pick a nice broad arrow pointing right in Wingdings3; this is
character 0xE2. Unless the recipient has Wingdings 3, he won't be able
to see the arrow. Even having a large Unicode font, like Arial Sans
Unicode (which, I'm pretty sure, does have glyphs for right-pointing
arrows), won't be any help, because 0xE2 in any Unicode font points to
the character "â". Even having a different Wingding font won't help,
because, for instance, in WingDings2 this code points to an asterisk.

Yes, Windows and Macs usually do have this font installed. So what? This
is no longer a Windows-only world. For instance, AFAIK Android phones
and tablets don't come with a Wingdings-compatible font. Same, I think,
for Blackberries. (I have seen some info that IOS devices do have
Wingdings, but apparently it's called "Wingdings-regular" there.) In the
Linux world, you can't be certain that there will be a compatible font
installed. And so on.

Is it POSSIBLE? Well, maybe. Seamonkey Mail and Composer won't even list
fonts with weird glyph mappings, such as Wingdings. But there might be
some way to work around it. I just don't think it's worth the trouble.
-- 
MCBastos

This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized
use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.

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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[David E. Ross]

On 3/20/12 10:18 PM, Mike C wrote:
> Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?

There was an extensive discussion about Wingdings in Web pages, not so
long ago.  The conclusion is that, since this is contrary to the HTML
specifications, it is generally NOT allowed.  Only those special
characters that are part of the Unicode standard can be represented in
HTML.

Since Wingdings are not supported by plain-text, ASCII-formatted E-mail,
you would need to use HTML-formatted E-mail.  You would thus face the
same restrictions imposed by the HTML specifications that apply to Web
pages.

See:
<http://www.unicode.org/>
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/named-character-references.html>
(best viewed with JavaScript disabled before loading and with [View >
Text Zoom > 150%])
<http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/characters.html>
<http://www.alanwood.net/demos/wingdings.html>

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
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Re: Use Wingdings in SM mail

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Mike C wrote:


Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?


Yes.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Use Wingdings in SM mail

[Mike C]

Is there a way to Use Wingdings in SM mail?
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