Re: [Sursound] What does a mic with more than 4 channels give you?
wrote: On 2013-04-25, Robert Greene wrote: Namely if a hard transient occurs say 30 degrees left of center, the associated wavefront arrives at the left ear before it arrives at the right ear. Except that what arrives at your ears at first order has absolutely nothing to do with a planar wavefront. It works, alright, but not because it has too much to do with how the transient started out with. -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front +358-50-5756111, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer is redundant These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/b51e0e49/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] Lectureship/Senior Lectureship at the Sonic Arts Research Centre
Apologies for cross postings -- Lectureship/Senior Lectureship at the Sonic Arts Research Centre, Queen's University Belfast The Sonic Arts Research Centre is looking to appoint a full time, permanent member of academic staff. This position is an opportunity to contribute to the interdisciplinary research team at the Sonic Arts Research Centre, School of Creative Arts, Queen's University Belfast. The aim of this post is to produce high-quality research and publications and to undertake undergraduate and postgraduate teaching in the area of research expertise and other technical areas across the curriculum. Relevant fields of research expertise include digital signal processing for audio, digital music processing, spatial audio, performance technologies, HCI, software design, recording and production. The successful candidate is expected to contribute to the development of links between the arts and the sciences in the context of the creative industries. The postholder will be based at the Sonic Arts Research Centre and will contribute to the curriculum of the BSc Music Technology and Sonic Arts, the MA Sonic Arts and will be involved in PhD supervision. Informal enquires can be directed to Mr Chris Corrigan (c.corri...@qub.ac.ukmailto:c.corri...@qub.ac.uk). For more information and job details please visit: https://hrwebapp.qub.ac.uk/tlive_webrecruitment/wrd/run/ETREC107GF.open?VACANCY_ID=0559073HLqWVID=6273090LgxLANG=USA Closing Date: Monday 20 May 2013 The Sonic Arts Research Centre (SARC) is a unique interdisciplinary facility which unites internationally recognised experts in the fields of musical composition, signal processing, Human Computer Interaction and auditory perception. The Centre is established in a purpose-built facility located alongside the engineering departments of Queen's University Belfast. SARC's centrepiece, the Sonic Laboratoryhttp://www.sarc.qub.ac.uk/sites/sarc/AboutUs/TheSARCBuildingandFacilities/TheSonicLab/, provides a unique space for cutting-edge initiatives in the creation and delivery of music and audio. The Sonic Laboratory's uniqueness is vested in the degree of flexibility it can provide for experiments in 3D sound diffusion and for ground-breaking compositional and performance work within a purpose-built, variable acoustic space. SARC, was officially opened by Karlheinz Stockhausen during the Sonorities Festival in April 2004. The Centre, which is now one of the biggest centres of its kind in the world, supports the work of a community of sixty academics, visiting researchers and composers, and research students. Sonic Arts Research Centre School of Creative Arts Queen's University Belfast http://www.sarc.qub.ac.ukhttp://www.sarc.qub.ac.uk/ Best wishes, Stephanie ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
Has anyone heard the new work by DTS called Headphone:X? I heard it recently at NAB. I was very impressed by the front and rear positioning, but not so convinced by height. Rather oddly, they have to apply a room measured impulse response as part of the simulation, to simulate the real speakers in a real room. I asked why they couldn't start with B-format and use modelled virtual speakers etc etc and just got blank looks. Ah well jon ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
have you ever heard the Realiser by Smyth Research ? Incredible thing that imitates speakers - even using someone elses HRTF it worked amazingly well On 29 April 2013 12:29, Jon Honeyball j...@jonhoneyball.com wrote: Has anyone heard the new work by DTS called Headphone:X? I heard it recently at NAB. I was very impressed by the front and rear positioning, but not so convinced by height. Rather oddly, they have to apply a room measured impulse response as part of the simulation, to simulate the real speakers in a real room. I asked why they couldn't start with B-format and use modelled virtual speakers etc etc and just got blank looks. Ah well jon ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/4227d05b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
Jon Honeyball wrote: I have a pcm-f1 tape of the Zuccherelli stuff from 30 years ago, for those with long memories. Must pull that into a wav file, but my f1 has no digital output. Hmmm Don't bother. There's lots of clips in Youtube. Search for Holophonics or Zuccarelli. However, not sure how well the various people's copies and the data compression have kept the directional information. The new systems most likely use convolution or something better than dummy head recordings. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
Mine is a direct copy from zuccharelli himself On 29/04/2013 12:08, Eero Aro eero@dlc.fi wrote: Jon Honeyball wrote: I have a pcm-f1 tape of the Zuccherelli stuff from 30 years ago, for those with long memories. Must pull that into a wav file, but my f1 has no digital output. Hmmm Don't bother. There's lots of clips in Youtube. Search for Holophonics or Zuccarelli. However, not sure how well the various people's copies and the data compression have kept the directional information. The new systems most likely use convolution or something better than dummy head recordings. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
The realiser used headtracking I think - it was, as I say, amazingly accurate - I literally couldnt tell the difference between the headphones on imitating the speakers, and the headphones off (tilting them automatically activated the real speakers) - and this was using the HRTFs of an older man with abundant ear hair - nothing like my sooth and sleek apendages On 29 April 2013 13:08, Eero Aro eero@dlc.fi wrote: Jon Honeyball wrote: I have a pcm-f1 tape of the Zuccherelli stuff from 30 years ago, for those with long memories. Must pull that into a wav file, but my f1 has no digital output. Hmmm Don't bother. There's lots of clips in Youtube. Search for Holophonics or Zuccarelli. However, not sure how well the various people's copies and the data compression have kept the directional information. The new systems most likely use convolution or something better than dummy head recordings. Eero __**_ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursoundhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/ed082be3/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
Mine is a direct copy from zuccharelli himself My respect! Then, out you dig them and re-release. I run a audio restoration company, but unfortunately I don't have a F1. Most other formats can do. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
A whole bunch of Zucharelli-recorded stuff was released as a hugely expensive set of 10 sound effects CDs. I waited until they were discounted to a tenner each and bought them. Happy to provide copies to anyone who wants to play. John On 29 Apr 2013, at 12:21, Eero Aro eero@dlc.fi wrote: Mine is a direct copy from zuccharelli himself My respect! Then, out you dig them and re-release. I run a audio restoration company, but unfortunately I don't have a F1. Most other formats can do. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
John, that could be fun - I remember the tape from when I worked for Angus McKenzie all those years ago. The bees flying around the head was the best I have got results using Harpex in Binaural mode from my Soundfield ST350 jon On 29/04/2013 12:32, John Leonard j...@johnleonard.co.uk wrote: A whole bunch of Zucharelli-recorded stuff was released as a hugely expensive set of 10 sound effects CDs. I waited until they were discounted to a tenner each and bought them. Happy to provide copies to anyone who wants to play. John On 29 Apr 2013, at 12:21, Eero Aro eero@dlc.fi wrote: Mine is a direct copy from zuccharelli himself My respect! Then, out you dig them and re-release. I run a audio restoration company, but unfortunately I don't have a F1. Most other formats can do. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
I think I have somewhere the black floppy disk that played at 33 1/3 rpm, and came free with Audio magazine about 30 years ago. Is it the same thing? I will try and locate it. will have to digitize it of course. umashankar Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 14:08:12 +0300 From: eero@dlc.fi To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X Jon Honeyball wrote: I have a pcm-f1 tape of the Zuccherelli stuff from 30 years ago, for those with long memories. Must pull that into a wav file, but my f1 has no digital output. Hmmm Don't bother. There's lots of clips in Youtube. Search for Holophonics or Zuccarelli. However, not sure how well the various people's copies and the data compression have kept the directional information. The new systems most likely use convolution or something better than dummy head recordings. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/74bb442b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
On 29/04/2013 11:53, Jon Honeyball wrote: I have a pcm-f1 tape of the Zuccherelli stuff from 30 years ago, for those with long memories. Must pull that into a wav file, but my f1 has no digital output. Hmmm As it happens, I have a Sony PCM-701ES (incl SPDIF) with the CDP digital port added (designed, along with the SoundSTreamer it connected to, by Dave Malham), sitting around doing nothing. It cost several arms and legs when bought new, back in 1987. Last time I used it, several years ago, it recorded 16bit audio nicely to a bog-standard (and cheap) VHS recorder. My question is, simply, are these things still in use/demand anywhere (e.g. for recovering vintage F1 recordings, which I merely assume it can do)? I also used the CDP port to connect (via a tiny bit of DIY buffer electronics) to a now utterly obsolete but cute IDE-based 56001 dsp development card. The port gives you direct access to the otherwise internal serial data and clock lines. There is currently one on Ebay Buy It Now for £150 plus shipping. I guess shipping by UK courier would be around £25. I would only take the plunge on Ebay if I could be sure of a price good enough to justify letting it go. Richard Dobson ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
umashankar wrote: I will try and locate it. will have to digitize it of course Even though the thread is going towards off-topic, here you are: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/Holophonics_demo_cd.wav This is a Holophonics demo CD, which contains the barber shop and other thingys. The duration is 19 minutes. It is a wav. file, ripped from the CD. The file is 195 MB. You have been warned. Download it to yourself, not sure how well it may play over the web. I will keep the file in Dropbox for some time and delete it before long. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
i work in an ethnomusicology archives here in india, and we have about 5000 hours of pcm f1 recordings dating back to 1983 (when I even did digital field recordings using the F1). we have two F1s and one 501. None have digital outputs, but cricklewood electronics (?) produced a card which produced a sdif signal out of the F1 that we are using to convert our pcm recordings to wav files without redigitising. umashankar Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:02:32 +0100 From: richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X) On 29/04/2013 11:53, Jon Honeyball wrote: I have a pcm-f1 tape of the Zuccherelli stuff from 30 years ago, for those with long memories. Must pull that into a wav file, but my f1 has no digital output. Hmmm As it happens, I have a Sony PCM-701ES (incl SPDIF) with the CDP digital port added (designed, along with the SoundSTreamer it connected to, by Dave Malham), sitting around doing nothing. It cost several arms and legs when bought new, back in 1987. Last time I used it, several years ago, it recorded 16bit audio nicely to a bog-standard (and cheap) VHS recorder. My question is, simply, are these things still in use/demand anywhere (e.g. for recovering vintage F1 recordings, which I merely assume it can do)? I also used the CDP port to connect (via a tiny bit of DIY buffer electronics) to a now utterly obsolete but cute IDE-based 56001 dsp development card. The port gives you direct access to the otherwise internal serial data and clock lines. There is currently one on Ebay Buy It Now for £150 plus shipping. I guess shipping by UK courier would be around £25. I would only take the plunge on Ebay if I could be sure of a price good enough to justify letting it go. Richard Dobson ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/6c6a7dc8/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
In Firefox, you just need to hit file/save page as to download. David At 09:53 29-04-13, Jon Honeyball wrote: Could you zip it? Would make it easier to download here, otherwise it tries to play in web browser. Or I am being very dim today (which is entirely possible!) Thanks jon On 29/04/2013 15:11, Eero Aro eero@dlc.fi wrote: umashankar wrote: I will try and locate it. will have to digitize it of course Even though the thread is going towards off-topic, here you are: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/Holophonics_demo_cd.wav This is a Holophonics demo CD, which contains the barber shop and other thingys. The duration is 19 minutes. It is a wav. file, ripped from the CD. The file is 195 MB. You have been warned. Download it to yourself, not sure how well it may play over the web. I will keep the file in Dropbox for some time and delete it before long. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] what mics do you use?
Eero Aro skrev 29.4.2013 14:28: Discussions about the various miking systems for surround sound and Ambisonics can be found in the Sursound archives. This subject surfaces every now and then. Another one also with Pearl capsules here: http://nu47.com/NU-880F.pdf Yes, I finally got this far... Martin ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] what mics do you use?
Yes Martin! This is in my wish list for sure Hope you are well... Mauricio Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Martin Kantola mar...@nordicaudiolabs.com wrote: Eero Aro skrev 29.4.2013 14:28: Discussions about the various miking systems for surround sound and Ambisonics can be found in the Sursound archives. This subject surfaces every now and then. Another one also with Pearl capsules here: http://nu47.com/NU-880F.pdf Yes, I finally got this far... Martin ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
well it took about ten minutes to download the file as is and had a quick listen. the floppy record I had was something different. I remember now it was something by dave haffler (holophonics ?) it had mostly small clips of music, including some choral stuff. I have not thought about it for three decades ! I will now have to search for it everwhere. umashankar From: k...@galaxyclassics.com Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 17:34:12 +0200 To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X On 29 Apr 2013, at 17:09, Eero Aro wrote: Wouldn't it be better/easier to convert them losslessly into flac ? It reduces filesize to about 50% and there are free flac converters for almost any platform. Could you please recommend me a converter. I am using win7. I'm on Mac and use xACT. For Win7 you can either use the commandline tool (if you like that, I don't) or use a GUI, e.g. dbpoweramp (not free but a 21 day trial). There's more on http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html Kees de Visser Galaxy Classics ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/6d3e1696/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
A few months ago I had to sort out a PCM701 with one of my spdif cards in (the ones I used to do for Audio Design). We went through three PCM units before we found one that worked fully in replay mode (the original, one from the Uni and the final one, off Ebay). There seems to be something in the electronics that becomes increasingly unreliable with time in, I think, the clocking circuits which I find very worrying especially. Given the fact that archiving houses (in the UK in particular, the British Library) very sensibly bought up a lot of machines when HHB finally stopped sponsoring production, there aren't likely to be many working boxes around any more, so guard any you have that work very carefully! Dave PS I don't have any more of the spdif and the chip it was based on is no longer available so I can't make any more! On 29 April 2013 15:23, umashankar manthravadi umasha...@hotmail.comwrote: i work in an ethnomusicology archives here in india, and we have about 5000 hours of pcm f1 recordings dating back to 1983 (when I even did digital field recordings using the F1). we have two F1s and one 501. None have digital outputs, but cricklewood electronics (?) produced a card which produced a sdif signal out of the F1 that we are using to convert our pcm recordings to wav files without redigitising. umashankar Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:02:32 +0100 From: richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X) On 29/04/2013 11:53, Jon Honeyball wrote: I have a pcm-f1 tape of the Zuccherelli stuff from 30 years ago, for those with long memories. Must pull that into a wav file, but my f1 has no digital output. Hmmm As it happens, I have a Sony PCM-701ES (incl SPDIF) with the CDP digital port added (designed, along with the SoundSTreamer it connected to, by Dave Malham), sitting around doing nothing. It cost several arms and legs when bought new, back in 1987. Last time I used it, several years ago, it recorded 16bit audio nicely to a bog-standard (and cheap) VHS recorder. My question is, simply, are these things still in use/demand anywhere (e.g. for recovering vintage F1 recordings, which I merely assume it can do)? I also used the CDP port to connect (via a tiny bit of DIY buffer electronics) to a now utterly obsolete but cute IDE-based 56001 dsp development card. The port gives you direct access to the otherwise internal serial data and clock lines. There is currently one on Ebay Buy It Now for £150 plus shipping. I guess shipping by UK courier would be around £25. I would only take the plunge on Ebay if I could be sure of a price good enough to justify letting it go. Richard Dobson ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/6c6a7dc8/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer is redundant These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/92752c61/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com wrote: have you ever heard the Realiser by Smyth Research ? Incredible thing that imitates speakers - even using someone elses HRTF it worked amazingly well There's also the Focusrite VRM (Virtual Refernce Monitoring) Box for about US$100. No headtracking though. It works fine. Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com) Core Sound LLC www.core-sound.com Home of TetraMic ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
At 10:59 29-04-13, Dave Malham wrote: A few months ago I had to sort out a PCM701 with one of my spdif cards in (the ones I used to do for Audio Design). We went through three PCM units before we found one that worked fully in replay mode (the original, one from the Uni and the final one, off Ebay). There seems to be something in the electronics that becomes increasingly unreliable with time in, I think, the clocking circuits which I find very worrying especially. Is this perhaps (hopefully) just old Cs? David (Luckily I transferred all my F1 tapes to DAT, and recently to HD) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] what mics do you use?
Ok, you have two problems with large capsules. Firstly there's the standard one of the basic directionality going off. The directional patterns of any capsules degrades as the frequency goes up, due to interference effects, and this happens at lower frequencies with larger capsules. Secondly if you are deriving B format signals (or anything similar) from a capsule array, the wider the separation the lower the frequency at which the derivation fails which is why the tetramic produces such good patterns to such high frequencies compared with the actual Soundfield. However, the larger capsules of the Soundfield are a lot quieter and nicer' simply because they are based on better quality and larger diaphragm capsules - so, you pays your money and makes your choice. Dave On 29 April 2013 15:56, Ronald C.F. Antony r...@cubiculum.com wrote: On 29 Apr 2013, at 02:33, Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote: but the 30+ mm size will seriously mess with the high frequency response f any derived horizontal only B format. Could you please elaborate on the expected effects from the larger capsules? Trying to figure out if that would result in something one can live with, or something that turns it useless. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4853 bytes Desc: not available URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/7898aef7/attachment.bin ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer is redundant These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/7ca662bc/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
It is possible but I wasn't at all sure that it wasn't the ceramic resonator used in the oscillator. Sooner or later we may have to resort to writing software to do the job - assuming we can find working Betamax machines. Fortunately the encoding is very well documented in the various manuals, unlike some of the more modern systems. Dave On 29 April 2013 17:21, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 10:59 29-04-13, Dave Malham wrote: A few months ago I had to sort out a PCM701 with one of my spdif cards in (the ones I used to do for Audio Design). We went through three PCM units before we found one that worked fully in replay mode (the original, one from the Uni and the final one, off Ebay). There seems to be something in the electronics that becomes increasingly unreliable with time in, I think, the clocking circuits which I find very worrying especially. Is this perhaps (hopefully) just old Cs? David (Luckily I transferred all my F1 tapes to DAT, and recently to HD) __**_ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursoundhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer is redundant These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/c67c59da/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
On 29/04/2013 16:59, Dave Malham wrote: A few months ago I had to sort out a PCM701 with one of my spdif cards in (the ones I used to do for Audio Design). We went through three PCM units before we found one that worked fully in replay mode (the original, one from the Uni and the final one, off Ebay). There seems to be something in the electronics that becomes increasingly unreliable with time in, I think, the clocking circuits which I find very worrying especially. Given the fact that archiving houses (in the UK in particular, the British Library) very sensibly bought up a lot of machines when HHB finally stopped sponsoring production, there aren't likely to be many working boxes around any more, so guard any you have that work very carefully! Dave PS I don't have any more of the spdif and the chip it was based on is no longer available so I can't make any more! Interesting - time for some testing. Last time I turned it on, it all worked, but that was at least 5 years ago, or approx when said cheap video recorder started chewing tapes. I have forwarded this to Archer Endrich; he may still have a few kits lying around. We are still scratching our heads about what to do with all this old CDP kit! Clarification: I just checked it, my model is the PCM 601-ESD (not the 701), it has its own spdif i/o as well as the CDP port. Richard Dobson ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
FWIW, I've got a few working systems, F1, 601, 701 and two Betamax VCRs (PAL only). The 601 and 701 have a SPDIF output. They are still used in our studio for clients who require transfers. Kees de Visser Galaxy Classics On 29 Apr 2013, at 17:59, Dave Malham wrote: A few months ago I had to sort out a PCM701 with one of my spdif cards in (the ones I used to do for Audio Design). We went through three PCM units before we found one that worked fully in replay mode (the original, one from the Uni and the final one, off Ebay). There seems to be something in the electronics that becomes increasingly unreliable with time in, I think, the clocking circuits which I find very worrying especially. Given the fact that archiving houses (in the UK in particular, the British Library) very sensibly bought up a lot of machines when HHB finally stopped sponsoring production, there aren't likely to be many working boxes around any more, so guard any you have that work very carefully! Dave PS I don't have any more of the spdif and the chip it was based on is no longer available so I can't make any more! ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
On 29 Apr 2013, at 18:42, umashankar manthravadi wrote: many years ago, I tried to convince people it is worth producing a software PCM F-1 decoder, using a low cost video card and a a VHS player (all our PCM F1 recordings are on VHS). I thought it would be simple, but nobody showed any interest. Umashankar A good friend of mine is a gifted DSP programmer and I remember having asked him years ago if he could make what you describe. He probably could, but it's not easy, will take many hours to develop and the potential user base is very small. Have you checked if there are any (Sony) patents that could pose problems ? Great idea though (same for a software Dolby A/SR decoder, which isn't avaialble AFAIK). Kees de Visser Galaxy Classics ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
Hi, It would have been difficult in t'owld days using dsp's with their (then) very small memories and the requirement to use assembler because of the general lack of high performance high level language compilers. Pretty certain it could be done with an ARM with C or C++ these days. However, it would still take quite a bit of work for a pretty small market. If it ever gets done it'll be by someone who is either (a) a masochist or (b) in desperate need with a pile of vital tapes and no pcm units available. There wouldn't be any problem with patents for the PCM units as they were first marketed 30 years ago which would put patent dates at 21 years or more so they would have expired - Dolby A (which was introduced in 1966), Dolby B (1968) and Dolby SR (1986) all fall into the same category. Dave On 29 April 2013 18:37, Kees de Visser k...@galaxyclassics.com wrote: On 29 Apr 2013, at 18:42, umashankar manthravadi wrote: many years ago, I tried to convince people it is worth producing a software PCM F-1 decoder, using a low cost video card and a a VHS player (all our PCM F1 recordings are on VHS). I thought it would be simple, but nobody showed any interest. Umashankar A good friend of mine is a gifted DSP programmer and I remember having asked him years ago if he could make what you describe. He probably could, but it's not easy, will take many hours to develop and the potential user base is very small. Have you checked if there are any (Sony) patents that could pose problems ? Great idea though (same for a software Dolby A/SR decoder, which isn't avaialble AFAIK). Kees de Visser Galaxy Classics ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer is redundant These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/54666ae8/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] DTS Headphone:X
Hi All, I renamed the file in such a way, that a browser shouldn't see it as a wav file: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/Holophonics_demo_cd.wav.remo Please try to download and when you've got it downloaded, edit the .remo part away from the filename. Please report. And - now that I think about it, as the duration of this file is so long, this must be a copy that has at some stage resided on an analog tape. However, I do have a Holophonics Demo CD. I can look it up and see what I can do. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
On 2013-04-29, Dave Malham wrote: Pretty certain it could be done with an ARM with C or C++ these days. Yes, though the data rate of the incoming video stream is a bit steep (20-30MB/s), so that you need a rather muscular DSP to keep up, and you probably won't want to go the easiest way which would be to use some existing software to capture the uncompressed video and then write an offline program to decode it. I'm not too sure there are standard formats for uncompressed video which let you do reliable separation of specific scanlines either, which is what is needed here. And you definitely don't want the pain of working directly with the baseband video signal -- though the necessary SDR code might be included in GNU Radio or some similar toolkit, and theoretically you can ignore chroma. However, it would still take quite a bit of work for a pretty small market. If it ever gets done it'll be by someone who is either (a) a masochist or (b) in desperate need with a pile of vital tapes and no pcm units available. To me it seems getting the tapes accepted into some library's preservation program would be the easiest way to get the funding for the initial development. Or, perhaps Sony would be interested, given that there have to be a number of interesting and important masters out there which they could benefit from if (re)mastered. There wouldn't be any problem with patents for the PCM units as they were first marketed 30 years ago which would put patent dates at 21 years or more so they would have expired - Dolby A (which was introduced in 1966), Dolby B (1968) and Dolby SR (1986) all fall into the same category. That's distinctly easier because the formats aren't such a kluge, and if you just want to do one-time migration, your code wouldn't have to be ultra optimized either. (If you can just throw cycles at it, analog filters are easy to emulate with an evil enough oversampling ratio.) Level calibration could prove a bit of a challenge there, and there might be nastier restorative actions you might want to take at the same time, like locking onto bias phase, but otherwise it doesn't seem like rocket surgery to me. -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front +358-50-5756111, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] what mics do you use?
I'd like to expand just a bit on what Dave said. The narrowing of the pattern of microphones at high frequencies is equivalent to the addition of higher order spherical harmonics into the directionality. I recently went through the exercise of decomposing the pattern of a 1 capsule into its spherical harmonics and it took up to 10th order to do a good approximation at 16 kHz. If one were to derive either an omni (monopole) or a Figure 8 (dipole) by adding or subtracting capsules then half the higher order harmonics would remain, resulting in a polar pattern that differs greatly from what was desired. This is true even assuming that you could make the capsules coincident, which you can't. A mental model of a soundfield microphone at HF is of four beams pointing out into space from the locations of each of the capsules. The non-coincidence is of course a separate effect. If we were to use perfect, point-sized capsules then they could conceivably have perfect cardioid patterns. But the spacing effects are still there. I've measured most of the available soundfield microphones to determine the value of r. It's a little difficult because the center of the array isn't available, but one can measure from the center of one diaphragm to another and get r from that. If the capsules are cylinders of length l and diameter d, then r = l +.2887d SF MkIV and MkV1.47 cm (from literature) SF SPS2002.71 cm (from measurement AGM MR1 and MR22.27 cm (from measurement) Tetramic1.77 cm (from measurement) Note that r for the SPS200 is almost twice the value for the MkIV type design. Long capsules make things worse! I've built prototypes here with r = .7 cm, but none of those are ready for use. Finally, Aaron Heller and I presented two papers at the 133rd AES convention that deal with some of these matters, in particular the diffuse-field response. They are: Calibration of Soundfield Microphones using the Diffuse-Field Response http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20130429/16453.pdf A second-order soundfield microphone with improved polar pattern shape http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20130429/16470.pdf I hope that the illustrations in these papers will make clearer what we've been talking about. Either Aaron or I will be happy to send a copy to anyone who is interested. Eric Benjamin - Original Message From: Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu Sent: Mon, April 29, 2013 9:28:32 AM Subject: Re: [Sursound] what mics do you use? Ok, you have two problems with large capsules. Firstly there's the standard one of the basic directionality going off. The directional patterns of any capsules degrades as the frequency goes up, due to interference effects, and this happens at lower frequencies with larger capsules. Secondly if you are deriving B format signals (or anything similar) from a capsule array, the wider the separation the lower the frequency at which the derivation fails which is why the tetramic produces such good patterns to such high frequencies compared with the actual Soundfield. However, the larger capsules of the Soundfield are a lot quieter and nicer' simply because they are based on better quality and larger diaphragm capsules - so, you pays your money and makes your choice. Dave On 29 April 2013 15:56, Ronald C.F. Antony r...@cubiculum.com wrote: On 29 Apr 2013, at 02:33, Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote: but the 30+ mm size will seriously mess with the high frequency response f any derived horizontal only B format. Could you please elaborate on the expected effects from the larger capsules? Trying to figure out if that would result in something one can live with, or something that turns it useless. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4853 bytes Desc: not available URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/7898aef7/attachment.bin n ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University, so this disclaimer is redundant These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer Dave Malham Ex-Music Research Centre Department of Music The University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130429/7ca662bc/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
At 11:34 29-04-13, Dave Malham wrote: It is possible but I wasn't at all sure that it wasn't the ceramic resonator used in the oscillator. What mechanism causes deterioration in one of these? David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
At 12:37 29-04-13, Kees de Visser wrote: Great idea though (same for a software Dolby A/SR decoder, which isn't avaialble AFAIK). A standalone Windows app that would decode Dolby-A encoded wavefiles and output a restored non-Dolby 24-bit wavefile would be most useful. I have several recordings that I have had transfer to hi-res files still in Dolby-A format. ... even if such a program were command line only and needed to be left overnight to cook! David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sony PCM? (was Re: DTS Headphone:X)
On 30 Apr 2013, at 04:56, David Pickett wrote: A standalone Windows app that would decode Dolby-A encoded wavefiles and output a restored non-Dolby 24-bit wavefile would be most useful. I have several recordings that I have had transfer to hi-res files still in Dolby-A format. ... even if such a program were command line only and needed to be left overnight to cook! The DSP friend I mentioned before has written a software Telcom C4 decoder for a client (custom made, not for sale). Telcom was a German (Telefunken) tape noise reduction system, equivalent (claimed superior) to Dolby. Just to say that it can be done if there's (financial) interest. IIRC Telcom was less critical than Dolby regarding playback calibration, so decoding Dolby wav files might be a bit more complex. Kees de Visser Galaxy Classics ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
