Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Stefan Schreiber]

http://www.smyth-research.com/articles_files/SVSAES.pdf

As example for a "professional" system...

Best,

Stefan

Stefan Schreiber wrote:


dw wrote:


On 19/11/2014 22:12, Stefan Schreiber wrote:




Your posting seems to be meaningless if not arrogant, BTW.


Let me put it in a more positive way then.. Your thinking is 
representative of the state of the art in binaural science.:-)


"Previous work  
has shown that even with the state-of-the-art virtual surround 
systems we don't currently get a big improvement in quality over a 
conventional stereo down-mix. The perceived quality was found to vary 
significantly according to the source material used."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2014/10/tommies-in-3d




I actually have discussed this study with some people. (for example, 
Günther Theile)


Experience with Realiser A8 from Smyth Research and IRT's BRS system 
seems to indicate that binaural systems with head-tracking and 
personalized HRTF  filters < can't be  distinguished from real (5.1) 
speakers >.


(They used BRIRs of the listening room and the reference 5.1 speaker 
system, of course.)


I don't believe that the BBC study is really flawless, BTW. (Günther 
Theile thought the same.)

(I am too lazy to discuss this now, have some other stuff to do.)

Your thinking is representative of the state of the art in binaural 
science.:-)




Maybe you should read more than (just) one "paper", before claiming 
that nobody beside you has some clue?  :-D


I also didn't claim to represent "binaural science", if I remember well.

Best,

Stefan



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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Stefan Schreiber]

dw wrote:


On 19/11/2014 22:12, Stefan Schreiber wrote:




Your posting seems to be meaningless if not arrogant, BTW.


Let me put it in a more positive way then.. Your thinking is 
representative of the state of the art in binaural science.:-)


"Previous work  
has shown that even with the state-of-the-art virtual surround systems 
we don't currently get a big improvement in quality over a 
conventional stereo down-mix. The perceived quality was found to vary 
significantly according to the source material used."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2014/10/tommies-in-3d



I actually have discussed this study with some people. (for example, 
Günther Theile)


Experience with Realiser A8 from Smyth Research and IRT's BRS system 
seems to indicate that binaural systems with head-tracking and 
personalized HRTF  filters < can't be  distinguished from real (5.1) 
speakers >.


(They used BRIRs of the listening room and the reference 5.1 speaker 
system, of course.)


I don't believe that the BBC study is really flawless, BTW. (Günther 
Theile thought the same.)

(I am too lazy to discuss this now, have some other stuff to do.)

Your thinking is representative of the state of the art in binaural 
science.:-)



Maybe you should read more than (just) one "paper", before claiming that 
nobody beside you has some clue?  :-D


I also didn't claim to represent "binaural science", if I remember well.

Best,

Stefan
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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Stefan Schreiber]

dw wrote:

The state-of-the-art finds it very difficult to render sounds below 
the listener. To do it with a 'flat' frequency response, and 
referenced to ground/gravity ie.. unaffected by normal, small head 
movements is a bonus. It is just a pity it might take a while to get 
used to..
I can't tell after being spoilt by 100s of hours of listening to 
various binaural recordings, and not hearing above 12kHz.


http://www.freesound.org/people/dwareing/sounds/255159/


This might be some observation worth for some serious discussion.

Elevation cues depend a lot on pinnae forms, and are related (mostly?) 
to high(er) frequencies.


The HRTF set you are using might just not do it for you?

Would you notice some changes if you try to find some HRTF set which 
actually "fits" to you? (Provided that you are probably not able to 
measure your personal HRTF data...)


Best,

Stefan
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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Stefan Schreiber]

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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[dw]

The state-of-the-art finds it very difficult to render sounds below the 
listener. To do it with a 'flat' frequency response, and referenced to 
ground/gravity ie.. unaffected by normal, small head movements is a 
bonus. It is just a pity it might take a while to get used to..
I can't tell after being spoilt by 100s of hours of listening to various 
binaural recordings, and not hearing above 12kHz.


http://www.freesound.org/people/dwareing/sounds/255159/

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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Adam Somers]

 > > of the whole person?
> > > >  - Can this be created with the best resolution in the forwards
> > listening
> > > > sphere for optimization?
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards
> > > > Bo-Erik Sandholm
> > > > Stockholm Sweden
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > dw
> > > > Sent: den 20 november 2014 00:02
> > > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio
> > > > Available?
> > > >
> > > > On 19/11/2014 22:49, Paul Doornbusch wrote:
> > > > > Can you give us some links to this please?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > > I'll give you a couple. If you record a sound in front of a dummy
> > > > head, you would expect to hear it in front on replay through
> headphones.
> > > > If you tilt your head backwards while listening, you would expect
> > > > the auditory image to rotate with the head/ears/torso. Neither
> > > > happens in
> > all
> > > > cases.. And then there is the 'externalization' problem.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 20 Nov 2014, at 9:46 AM, dw  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> There are numerous examples where the predictions of HRTF
> > localisation
> > > > are falsified by observations. What is one to think of the science?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > www.darylpierce.com
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Re: [Sursound] full-time tenure-track position in Sound Studies/Sound Design at Arizona State University

[Garth Paine]

The School of Arts, Media + Engineering seeks applicants for a full-time 
tenure-track appointment in Sound Studies/Sound Design at the 
associate/assistant professor level beginning Fall 2015. 

http://ame.asu.edu/about/employment_faculty.php 
<http://ame.asu.edu/about/employment_faculty.php>


Cheers,
Garth Paine
ga...@activatedspace.com



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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[dw]

On 19/11/2014 22:12, Stefan Schreiber wrote:



Your posting seems to be meaningless if not arrogant, BTW.


Let me put it in a more positive way then.. Your thinking is 
representative of the state of the art in binaural science.:-)


"Previous work  has 
shown that even with the state-of-the-art virtual surround systems we 
don't currently get a big improvement in quality over a conventional 
stereo down-mix. The perceived quality was found to vary significantly 
according to the source material used."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2014/10/tommies-in-3d

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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Is the Binaural mixing done with head tracking of the viewer ?

Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Adam Somers
Sent: den 20 november 2014 21:59
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

Hi Daryl,

On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Daryl Pierce 
wrote:

> I should be getting my google cardboard in the post today. I'm looking 
> forward to trying this out. When you say it was recorded at the board 
> do you mean separate instrument or submix stems that where later 
> positioned in b-format/FOA then? If so I am doubly excited to hear how 
> someone else does a pop mix in FOA.
>

That's the gist of it.  We have some specialized tools that allow us to get the 
angles right by looking at each sound source inside the head-mounted display.

Adam


>
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Adam Somers  wrote:
>
> > We just released our first piece of VR content with ambisonic audio 
> > to
> the
> > public.  It's a live recording on stage at a recent Paul McCartney 
> > concert.  The audio was captured from the sound board and mixed in 
> > b-format.  Available for Google Cardboard now, Oculus Rift Mac/PC 
> > coming soon.  http://www.jauntvr.com/content/
> >
> > Adam Somers
> > Jaunt, Inc.
> > http://jauntvr.com
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Peter Lennox 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Having quickly skimmed through the discussion, I'm not sure if I 
> > > missed something, so apologies if I have.
> > >
> > > HRTF derived binaural is never going to completely work unless you 
> > > use your own, personalised HRTFs. Using generic HRTF datasets, the 
> > > problems usually manifest as front-back reversals (which head 
> > > tracking ought to
> > > disambiguate) and lack of externalisation. (especially, I seem to
> > remember,
> > > directly in front of the head).
> > > The externalisation problem can be extended to the 
> > > range-perception problem - and range perception is very largely to 
> > > do with indirect
> sound
> > -
> > > just as, for instance, range perception does not work well in an
> anechoic
> > > room.
> > >
> > > I thought full HRTFs did take into account shoulder and torso
> reflections
> > > - though it seems likely that it's usually measured with shoulders
> > parallel
> > > to the line running through the ears?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dr Peter Lennox
> > >
> > > School of Technology,
> > > Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK
> > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > > 
> > > From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of 
> > > Bo-Erik Sandholm [bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com]
> > > Sent: 20 November 2014 09:30
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio 
> > > Available?
> > >
> > > Some of the current subject was vitalized by me trying to be 
> > > ironic
> about
> > > how non ambisonic guys are trying to solve the sound field 
> > > recording problem.
> > >
> > > Originally there was not, and I am not sure there currently exist 
> > > a solution for sound and picture having a coherent scene movement
> > (controlled
> > > by head direction) for Oculus Rift and like VR viewer in video and
> sound
> > > environments other than those controlled by game engines.
> > >
> > > I want to listen to realistic FOA tetramic recordings over 
> > > headphones
> if
> > > possible.
> > > My thinking is strongly impacted by the current availability of a 
> > > < 20
> > USD
> > > 3D direction sensors and low cost processing power.
> > >
> > > Pointer on howto implement low cost head tracker including 
> > > headtracking binaural software 
> > > http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2091
> > >
> > > Low cost processing: M805 1.5GHz (Cortex-A5) android 4.4 stick for 
> > > < 40 USD.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.geekbuying.com/item/MK808B-Plus-Amlogic-M805-Quad-Core-Andr
> oid-4-4-Mini-TV-Dongle-1G-8G-WIFI-H-265-HW-Decode-Bluetooth-DLNA-Mirac
> ast---Black-337068.html
> > > note to self does this ARM v5 version support  NEON answer = Yes.
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe there are at least a few glaring problems in the way 
> > > binaural
> > is
> > > generated via HRTF's currently.
> > >
> > > I think head tracking is part of the solution. That is that the 
> > > sound field decoding parameters to binaural change when you move your 
> > > head.
> > >  - the goal of adding head tracking with binaural listening is to 
> > > get
> to
> > > the status that the sound field is stationary and externalized .
> > >  - Personally for me listening to others binaural recordings with 
> > > inear microphones there can an experience like listening to a 
> > > vertical sound field slice/surface trough the ears, that is a bit 
> > > externalization to
> the
> > > sides and up and down but no depth!
> > >  - Introducing head tracking controlle