Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On 04/09/2018 01:49 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:

My guess would be the AD converters are not great - DA converters are
generally flat as a pankake these days but AD converters are not always on
cheaper stuff. I tried it with various different microphones and was never
happy - several other sI know found the same. Of course they dont have
phantom power either ...


But the internal capsules do have phantom power! Which can lead to 
SpHEAR Franken-Microphones like the one in the attached picture[*] :-) 
That was the first prototype, works fine (too bad the H2N does not store 
four channel recordings in "native" format, makes things more 
difficult). One hole on one the side and the right connectors and you 
are in (and a lot of work, mind you). I have yet to finish assembling 
the second. Only so many hours in a day (24, last time I checked, too few).


-- Fernando

[*] part of the SpHEAR project:
https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/



On 9 April 2018 at 21:43, David Pickett  wrote:


At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:

PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini

jack

in and terrible quality.


Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level and
impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but having taken
care of that, why should the quality be worse than using the microphione
mounted on the side?

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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[umashankar manthravadi]

Thanks Gerard



I thought I would wait for the discussion to complete before I piped in, as the 
builder of “Brahma-in-Zoom” microphone. Zoom provides firmware which creates a 
B format signal from their microphones, without height. But my issue has always 
been the odd arrangement of the capsules – front  pair is XY, and the rear is 
MS, with a figure of eight sideways and a cardioid facing front.



Brahma-in-Zoom removes the original capsules and replaces it with a true 
tetrahedral array of 14 mm capsules. The microphone is then calibrated to 
produce a set of filtermatrix files. All recordings have to be processed with 
this matrix (Using Brahmavolver, X-Volver or VVencode) to produce B format 
recordings. There is now also a version with an array of 25 mm capsules mounted 
on top of the Zoom H2N and I am pleased with the results. This too is sold with 
calibration files. In fact, none of the microphones I sell are without 
calibration. There are a couple of second order designs I have built, but I am 
waiting on good and reliable calibration systems. Next week I will complete an 
all digital second order microphone, outputting to USB.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




From: Sursound  on behalf of Gerard Lardner 

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:01:07 AM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

The Zoom H2n outputs A-format as two stereo files (wav or mp3)

Uumshankar is still producing the Brahma, and some interesting
developments from it; but no longer in association with Embrace Cinema
Gear (the original manufacturer for the Brahma Kickstart project).
Brahma Microphones is now at 
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrahmamic.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=2WIMwVJBC0vjHjmzVSWd4E8MhlvWWGEmkQnzb9KJbyY%3D&reserved=0


On 09/04/2018 23:16, Oddity Medium wrote:
> As I grok it, the Brahmas are significantly more expensive (3-4 times), and
> only output A-format. The Brahmas do perform FOA with-height. The Zoom H2N
> outputs WAV which is then massaged into pantophonic B-Format... correct?
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Augustine Leudar > wrote:
>> No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
>> zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
>> the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
>> for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
>> zoom H2N which might interest you :
>>
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kickstarter.com%2Fprojects%2F1569945514%2Fbrahma-&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=DqaSexjQUfTtn79BFe4AYJb7mm9KehDALo6K7u%2BMxAI%3D&reserved=0
>> affordable-ambisonics-microphone
>>
>> Im not sure if he's still doing it
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium  wrote:
>>
>>> why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
>>> (with the new firmware) ?
>>> because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
>>> jack
>>>> in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
>> ratio
>>>> was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
>>>> mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
>>>>
>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zoom-na.com%2Fproducts%2Ffield-video-&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=rmvjVJ9TaG5UnnYBHJD4I7tSikJP3gtkP42KVfveZl4%3D&reserved=0
>> recording/field-recording/
>>>> zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
>>>>
>>>> The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
>>> external
>>>> mics.
>>>> -- next part --
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>> URL: 
>>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Fprivate%2Fsursound%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=8P%2BC8owbuH5R34LeO%2FwK3

Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Gerard Lardner]

The Zoom H2n outputs A-format as two stereo files (wav or mp3)

Uumshankar is still producing the Brahma, and some interesting 
developments from it; but no longer in association with Embrace Cinema 
Gear (the original manufacturer for the Brahma Kickstart project). 
Brahma Microphones is now at http://brahmamic.com/



On 09/04/2018 23:16, Oddity Medium wrote:

As I grok it, the Brahmas are significantly more expensive (3-4 times), and
only output A-format. The Brahmas do perform FOA with-height. The Zoom H2N
outputs WAV which is then massaged into pantophonic B-Format... correct?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:
No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
zoom H2N which might interest you :

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569945514/brahma-
affordable-ambisonics-microphone

Im not sure if he's still doing it

On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium  wrote:


why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
(with the new firmware) ?
because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
augustineleu...@gmail.com

wrote:
I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini

jack

in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise

ratio

was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
mics on the side its the one with them in the top :

https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-

recording/field-recording/

zoom-h2n-handy-recorder

The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for

external

mics.
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Re: [Sursound] [allowed] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Gerard Lardner]

I have recorded several amateur choral concerts with a Zoom H2n using 
the built-in mics. As Augustine says, the results can be remarkably 
good. I prefer to use a 'proper' Ambisonic mic - in my case either a 
Brahma or an Octava (one day I'll buy better mics; but the Brahma is 
remarkably good) - with some additional spot mics. But really the Zoom 
is often good enough.



On 09/04/2018 20:22, Oddity Medium wrote:

Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?

I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D



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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Oddity Medium]

As I grok it, the Brahmas are significantly more expensive (3-4 times), and
only output A-format. The Brahmas do perform FOA with-height. The Zoom H2N
outputs WAV which is then massaged into pantophonic B-Format... correct?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
> zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
> the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
> for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
> zoom H2N which might interest you :
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569945514/brahma-
> affordable-ambisonics-microphone
>
> Im not sure if he's still doing it
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium  wrote:
>
> > why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
> > (with the new firmware) ?
> > because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> > augustineleu...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
> > jack
> > > in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
> ratio
> > > was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
> > > mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
> > >
> > > https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-
> recording/field-recording/
> > > zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
> > >
> > > The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
> > external
> > > mics.
> > > -- next part --
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Augustine Leudar]

No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
zoom H2N which might interest you :

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569945514/brahma-affordable-ambisonics-microphone

Im not sure if he's still doing it

On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium  wrote:

> why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
> (with the new firmware) ?
> because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> augustineleu...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
> jack
> > in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise ratio
> > was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
> > mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
> >
> > https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/
> > zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
> >
> > The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
> external
> > mics.
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
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> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
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-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Augustine Leudar]

Heres a review of the predessesor the H2 :

As a low cost standalone field recorder/microphone combination the H2 is
> interesting. However, its limitations means it cannot really be recommended
> for wildife sound recording due to the limited gain and high noise level on
> the external microphone input .
> Either the internal mic capsules are unusually sensitive, or the signal
> path for these capsules is different to the external mic input.


https://www.wildlife-sound.org/resources/equipment/12-resources/equipment/70-zoom-h2

I think the H2N has improved a little bit - but Im not sure how much.


On 9 April 2018 at 21:57, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
> jack in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
> ratio was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with
> the mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
>
> https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/
> zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
>
> The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
> external mics.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Oddity Medium]

why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
(with the new firmware) ?
because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini jack
> in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise ratio
> was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
> mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
>
> https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/
> zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
>
> The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for external
> mics.
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Augustine Leudar]

I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini jack
in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise ratio
was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
mics on the side its the one with them in the top :

https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h2n-handy-recorder

The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for external
mics.
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Augustine Leudar]

My guess would be the AD converters are not great - DA converters are
generally flat as a pankake these days but AD converters are not always on
cheaper stuff. I tried it with various different microphones and was never
happy - several other sI know found the same. Of course they dont have
phantom power either ...

On 9 April 2018 at 21:43, David Pickett  wrote:

> At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> >PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
> jack
> >in and terrible quality.
>
> Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level and
> impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but having taken
> care of that, why should the quality be worse than using the microphione
> mounted on the side?
>
> David
>
>
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>



-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[David Pickett]

At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini jack
>in and terrible quality.

Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level 
and impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but 
having taken care of that, why should the quality be worse than using 
the microphione mounted on the side?


David

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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Augustine Leudar]

This is probably worth a look :

https://endabates.wordpress.com/2017/06/

On 9 April 2018 at 21:36, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
> jack in and terrible quality.
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 21:35, Augustine Leudar 
> wrote:
>
>> They're actually pretty good - not so much bass . I remember running an
>> installation in a Botanic Garden and a visiting professor, dear man but
>> terrible microphone snob said to me "The sound quality is amazing - which
>> microphone did you use ?" - the look of horror that passed ove rhis face
>> when I told him it was a Zoom H2n was priceless :)
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 20:22, Oddity Medium  wrote:
>>
>>> Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?
>>>
>>> I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Augustine Leudar
>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>> Company Number : NI635217
>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>> Belfast BT88LL
>> www.magikdoor.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
>
>


-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Augustine Leudar]

PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini jack
in and terrible quality.

On 9 April 2018 at 21:35, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> They're actually pretty good - not so much bass . I remember running an
> installation in a Botanic Garden and a visiting professor, dear man but
> terrible microphone snob said to me "The sound quality is amazing - which
> microphone did you use ?" - the look of horror that passed ove rhis face
> when I told him it was a Zoom H2n was priceless :)
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 20:22, Oddity Medium  wrote:
>
>> Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?
>>
>> I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
>
>


-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Augustine Leudar]

They're actually pretty good - not so much bass . I remember running an
installation in a Botanic Garden and a visiting professor, dear man but
terrible microphone snob said to me "The sound quality is amazing - which
microphone did you use ?" - the look of horror that passed ove rhis face
when I told him it was a Zoom H2n was priceless :)

On 9 April 2018 at 20:22, Oddity Medium  wrote:

> Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?
>
> I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
> -- next part --
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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[Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

[Oddity Medium]

Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?

I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
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