Re: [Sursound] Ambiophonics Vs Ambisonics
Try going to https://cloud.aria3d.com. This is a Greek expert who has implemented Ambiophonics using the Chrome browser and some others. I think you will find his samples and text of use. It is of course always better if you can use your own tools to optimize the experience but this site should get you started. The Gravity excerpt is worth the visit. The site allows you to select from a bunch of speaker angles. In general you should try to use a speaker angle about 20 degrees between them so your pinna are happy and normal head motion or attitude makes no difference. The demo tracks on the Ambiophonic website are just 2.0 and 4.0 recordings. You need to have an XTC program running in your playback system to use them Ambiophonically. They are not precancelled, that is they are just recordings that have a large range and consistent values of TD and LD so they produce really wide and interesting front and rear stages using just two or four speakers. If you click on an item in the list you should get a download going. Maybe my host service is not working right. I will check. Please let us know how you make out. Ralph -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar Sent: Friday, October 04, 2019 4:14 PM To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Ambiophonics Vs Ambisonics It sounds very interesting. I must admit I have some slight reservations here (I've hear a lot of claims over the years in spatial audio and skepticism is now my default setting its not personal ) but I would like to actually hear this before passing further comments. Do I need a special player to play back two speaker ambiophonics or just to put speakers in the correct position. If I do could I have a link to a player and a two channel ambiophonics recording demo . I did look at your website but neither of these things were immediately obvious - there's a lot of info on there. I saw the demo page and it said demos below but I could only see a list no actual links to sounds.? Maybe my browser. Do All the best Gus On Friday, 4 October 2019, Ralph Glasgal wrote: > There are a whole bunch of links and descriptions of apps from a variety of > vendors you can use to try Ambiophonics. See www.ambiophonics.org I > would > suggest you use two miniDSP boxes to do it rather than just software. If > you use the apps you need to load two copies so you can play 4.0 media. > There are several surround 4.0 recordings made with the Ambiophone or other > more standard mic arrays in the demo tab from Chesky, etc. One advantage > of > the Ambio speaker placement is that with the speakers very close together > in > front and the other pair behind, the pinna function is mostly correct > compared to having speakers in a square or similar. Also Ambio can produce > essentially the full range of ITD up t0 700 microseconds and ILD values of > up to about 10 dB or what you would have in most concert halls. If you use > the BACCH version of XTC loudspeaker binaural you can get the fly buzzing > in > your ear. If you use two additional speakers at the rear, as in > Envelophonics, you can get a better spatial effect from 2.0 recordings like > orchestral LPs and CDs. > > If you are making your own recordings, then try to have an ITD range up to > 700 microseconds for side sound sources and also corresponding ILDs of up > to > 10 dB for the same side sources in the frequency ranges where both values > are audible. For frequencies over about 1500 Hz you just need to see that > you do not introduce things that would look like pinna response functions. > The narrow reproduction angle of the speakers will provide a reasonable > pinna function for the central area and sounds at the far sides do not have > as strong a pinna function since the ear canal is directly exposed at these > angles. Not perfect but a lot better than speakers at 60 degrees. Also if > you use the rear Envelophonics speakers this seems to correct even for this > pinna error at the extreme sides. Basically the trick is to have the brain > receive a consistent pattern of localization cue values, values that don't > contradict one another. > > Ralph > > -Original Message- > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > Augustine > Leudar > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2019 11:20 AM > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] AES Convention Demo > > Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can get a fairly convincing full > circle of sound in the horizontal plane with just ordinary amplitude > panning and the correct panning law - in fact I can get fairly convincing > height too using some bespoke techniques I've developed. - I assume you > mean the gaps between the speaker sin the panning are better filled with > your system ? > The proof is in the pudding of course - Can you recommend a good > ambiophonics plugin I could test in the studio, > all the
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Audio - Interactive Installation
I wonder if when talking about IMU's they should call it something different, like "9 degrees of measurement" or "9 degrees of sensing" since it's not freedom related to spatial movement. This particularly now that spatial tracking is being used more prominently in consumer technology. On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 12:57 PM Stefan Schreiber wrote: > To avoid some potential confusion: > > Most modern IMU sensors are supposed to offer “9 degrees of freedom”. > > (Directional 3-axis information from accelerometer, gyroscope and > magnetometer.) > > If refering to tracking, you speak “just” of 3DoF (orientation) or 6 > DoF tracking (orientation + positional data). > > Further reading > > https://developers.google.com/vr/discover/degrees-of-freedom > > (for example) > > Best, > > Stefan > > P.S.: 9 or 10 degrees of freedom certainly sounds better than 6DoF... > > (Of course this is the raw sensor data before fusion, which probaby > will give 3DoF orientation data as result. It could be discussed if > quaternion orientation is 3DoF or 4DoF, though. If 4DoF, an OHTI 6DoF > pose would be rather 7DoF... I refuse to take part in the following > discussion about 7DoF tracking, which means once more: I’m out! ) > > - - - > > Citando Bo-Erik Sandholm : > > > The ohti Projects for a open headtracker has been slow but will hopefully > > > > be updated soon. > > > > It is only for so called 9 degrees of freedom, no position data only > > > > directional info with 2 degrees precision. > > > > > > > > Data is currently quaternions over serial communication to control the > > > > omnitone binaural decoder. > > > > The host software written in JavaScript could with a bit of help have > the > > > > added functionality to send OSC. > > > > There already exists a library to send OSC for JavaScript. > > > > > > > > Den tis 1 okt. 2019 13:11Hector Centeno skrev: > > > >> Hi Jack, > >> > >> > >> > >> Yes, I saw those Bose but inertial sensors won't work for precise > tracking. > >> > >> I've done a lot of arkit/arcore with phones and tablets and it works > great > >> > >> but I don't want to be looking through a screen with a 2D > representation of > >> > >> the world while experiencing a sound only environment (unless you > strap the > >> > >> device to headphones with the camera facing forward, but that would be > not > >> > >> very convenient). > >> > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> > >> > >> Hector > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue., Oct. 1, 2019, 4:18 a.m. jack reynolds, < > jackreynolds...@gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> The new Bose headphones have 6dof tracking, but the accelerometers are > >> > >> not > >> > >> terribly accurate, so they are more 3dof really, unless you implement > >> > >> ARKit > >> > >> or similar. > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20191005/bf7c4261/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20191005/56e7e74d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Audio - Interactive Installation
To avoid some potential confusion: Most modern IMU sensors are supposed to offer “9 degrees of freedom”. (Directional 3-axis information from accelerometer, gyroscope and magnetometer.) If refering to tracking, you speak “just” of 3DoF (orientation) or 6 DoF tracking (orientation + positional data). Further reading https://developers.google.com/vr/discover/degrees-of-freedom (for example) Best, Stefan P.S.: 9 or 10 degrees of freedom certainly sounds better than 6DoF... (Of course this is the raw sensor data before fusion, which probaby will give 3DoF orientation data as result. It could be discussed if quaternion orientation is 3DoF or 4DoF, though. If 4DoF, an OHTI 6DoF pose would be rather 7DoF... I refuse to take part in the following discussion about 7DoF tracking, which means once more: I’m out! ) - - - Citando Bo-Erik Sandholm : The ohti Projects for a open headtracker has been slow but will hopefully be updated soon. It is only for so called 9 degrees of freedom, no position data only directional info with 2 degrees precision. Data is currently quaternions over serial communication to control the omnitone binaural decoder. The host software written in JavaScript could with a bit of help have the added functionality to send OSC. There already exists a library to send OSC for JavaScript. Den tis 1 okt. 2019 13:11Hector Centeno skrev: Hi Jack, Yes, I saw those Bose but inertial sensors won't work for precise tracking. I've done a lot of arkit/arcore with phones and tablets and it works great but I don't want to be looking through a screen with a 2D representation of the world while experiencing a sound only environment (unless you strap the device to headphones with the camera facing forward, but that would be not very convenient). Cheers, Hector On Tue., Oct. 1, 2019, 4:18 a.m. jack reynolds, -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20191005/bf7c4261/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] AES Convention Demo
Aaaah... I will take some unilateral decision, in this case: I’m out! Stefan Citando Augustine Leudar : Id have to take an NDA signed in blood and you'd have to put your house as a deposit for that Stefan ;) On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 at 14:15, Stefan Schreiber wrote: Hi Augustine Just to add some further detail: It is well-known that you can have a convincing stereophonic system with 6 speakers, providing a full circle of sound in the horizontal plane. (Or a 7.1 system, if keeping a "cinema" center channel at 0º and some LFE channel.) (A four-speaker system is probably a compromise...) Convinving height: In which way would your system differ from VBAP? (You said you are applying amplitude panning law.) Thanks, Stefan Citando Augustine Leudar : PS should have said " . I can get a fairly convincing full circle of sound in the horizontal plane with just 4 speakers" On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 16:20, Augustine Leudar -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20191005/5978081c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] AES Convention Demo
Id have to take an NDA signed in blood and you'd have to put your house as a deposit for that Stefan ;) On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 at 14:15, Stefan Schreiber wrote: > Hi Augustine > > Just to add some further detail: > > It is well-known that you can have a convincing stereophonic system > with 6 speakers, providing a full circle of sound > in the horizontal plane. > (Or a 7.1 system, if keeping a "cinema" center channel at 0º and some > LFE channel.) > > (A four-speaker system is probably a compromise...) > > Convinving height: > In which way would your system differ from VBAP? > > > (You said you are applying amplitude panning law.) > > > Thanks, > > Stefan > > > > > > Citando Augustine Leudar : > > > PS should have said " . I can get a fairly convincing full circle of > sound > > in the horizontal plane with just 4 speakers" > > > > On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 16:20, Augustine Leudar > > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can get a fairly convincing full > >> circle of sound in the horizontal plane with just ordinary amplitude > >> panning and the correct panning law - in fact I can get fairly > convincing > >> height too using some bespoke techniques I've developed. - I assume you > >> mean the gaps between the speaker sin the panning are better filled with > >> your system ? > >> The proof is in the pudding of course - Can you recommend a good > >> ambiophonics plugin I could test in the studio, > >> all the best > >> Gus > >> > >> On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 18:10, Ralph Glasgal > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Ambiophonics does not use any HRTF filters, filters of any kind, head > >>> tracking, special speakers, or custom recordings. It is fully > recursive > >>> and > >>> provides two easy to use adjustments to optimize the crosstalk > >>> cancellation > >>> or adjust to taste. It is also designed to use narrow speaker angles > so > >>> that the pinna direction finding mechanism is optimized for the central > >>> localization region. It also provides a full circle of sound in the > >>> horizontal plane with just four speakers from 4.0 media. Ambiophonics > is > >>> not just about XTC, it also provides envelopment and concert hall > ambience > >>> options. Transaural, BACCH, Sonic Holography, Panorama Mode, TacT, > Polk > >>> SDA, VMAX, etc. are some past and presently competing technologies. > But > >>> at > >>> the moment there are more readily available Ambiophonics apps and > >>> components > >>> installed worldwide than from other sources. Probably this is because > >>> there > >>> are no licensing fees, these products are affordable, and they work > with > >>> standard media like LPs, CDs, SACDs, BDs and of course downloads. You > can > >>> read the AES papers and tutorials at www.ambiophonics.org and there > are > >>> loads of comments and posts on the Facebook Ambiophonics forum and > >>> LinkedIn. > >>> But there is no substitute for hearing Ambio yourself. Try one of the > 4.0 > >>> tracks on the website. > >>> > >>> Ralph Glasgal > >>> > >>> > >>> > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Dr. Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL www.magikdoor.net +44(0)7555784775 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20191005/70e5266f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] AES Convention Demo
Hi Augustine Just to add some further detail: It is well-known that you can have a convincing stereophonic system with 6 speakers, providing a full circle of sound in the horizontal plane. (Or a 7.1 system, if keeping a "cinema" center channel at 0º and some LFE channel.) (A four-speaker system is probably a compromise...) Convinving height: In which way would your system differ from VBAP? (You said you are applying amplitude panning law.) Thanks, Stefan Citando Augustine Leudar : PS should have said " . I can get a fairly convincing full circle of sound in the horizontal plane with just 4 speakers" On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 16:20, Augustine Leudar wrote: Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can get a fairly convincing full circle of sound in the horizontal plane with just ordinary amplitude panning and the correct panning law - in fact I can get fairly convincing height too using some bespoke techniques I've developed. - I assume you mean the gaps between the speaker sin the panning are better filled with your system ? The proof is in the pudding of course - Can you recommend a good ambiophonics plugin I could test in the studio, all the best Gus On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 18:10, Ralph Glasgal wrote: Ambiophonics does not use any HRTF filters, filters of any kind, head tracking, special speakers, or custom recordings. It is fully recursive and provides two easy to use adjustments to optimize the crosstalk cancellation or adjust to taste. It is also designed to use narrow speaker angles so that the pinna direction finding mechanism is optimized for the central localization region. It also provides a full circle of sound in the horizontal plane with just four speakers from 4.0 media. Ambiophonics is not just about XTC, it also provides envelopment and concert hall ambience options. Transaural, BACCH, Sonic Holography, Panorama Mode, TacT, Polk SDA, VMAX, etc. are some past and presently competing technologies. But at the moment there are more readily available Ambiophonics apps and components installed worldwide than from other sources. Probably this is because there are no licensing fees, these products are affordable, and they work with standard media like LPs, CDs, SACDs, BDs and of course downloads. You can read the AES papers and tutorials at www.ambiophonics.org and there are loads of comments and posts on the Facebook Ambiophonics forum and LinkedIn. But there is no substitute for hearing Ambio yourself. Try one of the 4.0 tracks on the website. Ralph Glasgal ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
