Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing” Survey

[Douglas Murray]

Alan,

Thank you for that response. It seems that binaural is extremely complex. 
Unless the sounds are recorded with mics in your own ears, or you have a highly 
accurate individual hrtf, spending time with head tracking might be the best 
training for a new generic hrtf.

Can you say more about the nature of your planned binaural training? 

Best,

Douglas

> On May 1, 2023, at 1:59 AM, Alan Kan  wrote:
> 
> Hi Douglas,
> 
> There were a few studies that looked at using training to improve 
> localization using non-individualized hrtfs some years back. From memory, the 
> results were a bit mixed and most used dynamic training methods so that would 
> include head tracking. The counter-argument for using non-individualized 
> hrtfs is that the sound gets “colored”. That is, the spectrum gets changed in 
> a way that is different to one’s own hrtf.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Alan
> 
> From: Sursound  <mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu>> On Behalf Of Douglas Murray
> Sent: Friday, 21 April 2023 6:14 PM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group  <mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of Binaural 
> Hearing” Survey
> 
> Hi Alan,
> 
> Thanks for asking. I’ll have to be a bit clearer about my question about 
> binaural. For me binaural listening has never been more than a vague spatial 
> quality in the sound. Sometimes it sounds more “natural” than stereo. 
> Specific locations are not clearly localized. Add head tracking and things 
> become much clearer. But without head tracking the sound field remains vague.
> 
> In early experiences with binaural without head tracking I found the effects 
> lacking in the very thing it was supposed to be delivering: more accurate 
> localization than with volume based panning. More recently, after many hours 
> of attentive listening, I have found the effect more convincing.
> 
> So my question is, is the effective localization of binaural sound a learned 
> skill? And if so, can the skill be taught?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Douglas
> 
>> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:35 AM, Alan Kan > <mailto:alan@mq.edu.au><mailto:alan@mq.edu.au 
>> <mailto:alan@mq.edu.au>>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Douglas,
>> 
>> I’m not 100% sure I understand what you mean. Could you elaborate?
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> From: Sursound > <mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu><mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu 
>> <mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu>>> On Behalf Of Douglas Murray
>> Sent: Thursday, 20 April 2023 3:50 PM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group > <mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu><mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu 
>> <mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>>>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of 
>> Binaural Hearing” Survey
>> 
>> Alan,
>> 
>> Your long link worked. Thanks for updating that.
>> 
>> It seems to me that the full appreciation of binaural sound without head 
>> tracking is perhaps more of a learned skill than an automatic sensation. I 
>> wonder if this can be taught?
>> 
>> Douglas
>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2023, at 2:10 AM, Alan Kan >> <mailto:alan@mq.edu.au><mailto:alan@mq.edu.au 
>>> <mailto:alan@mq.edu.au><mailto:alan@mq.edu.au 
>>> <mailto:alan@mq.edu.au>%3cmailto:alan@mq.edu.au 
>>> <mailto:alan@mq.edu.au>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Strange. The shortened link is generated by Google Sheets. Here’s the long 
>>> form of the link: 
>>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform<https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform><https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform<https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform>
>>>  
>>> <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform%3Chttps://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform%3E%3Chttps://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform%3Chttps://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform%3E>>
>>> 
>>> Apologies and thank you for your interest.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> From: Sursound >> <

Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing” Survey

[Douglas Murray]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for asking. I’ll have to be a bit clearer about my question about 
binaural. For me binaural listening has never been more than a vague spatial 
quality in the sound. Sometimes it sounds more “natural” than stereo. Specific 
locations are not clearly localized. Add head tracking and things become much 
clearer. But without head tracking the sound field remains vague. 

In early experiences with binaural without head tracking I found the effects 
lacking in the very thing it was supposed to be delivering: more accurate 
localization than with volume based panning. More recently, after many hours of 
attentive listening, I have found the effect more convincing. 

So my question is, is the effective localization of binaural sound a learned 
skill? And if so, can the skill be taught?

Cheers,

Douglas

> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:35 AM, Alan Kan  wrote:
> 
> Hi Douglas,
> 
> I’m not 100% sure I understand what you mean. Could you elaborate?
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Alan
> 
> From: Sursound  On Behalf Of Douglas Murray
> Sent: Thursday, 20 April 2023 3:50 PM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of Binaural 
> Hearing” Survey
> 
> Alan,
> 
> Your long link worked. Thanks for updating that.
> 
> It seems to me that the full appreciation of binaural sound without head 
> tracking is perhaps more of a learned skill than an automatic sensation. I 
> wonder if this can be taught?
> 
> Douglas
> 
>> On Apr 20, 2023, at 2:10 AM, Alan Kan 
>> mailto:alan@mq.edu.au>> wrote:
>> 
>> Strange. The shortened link is generated by Google Sheets. Here’s the long 
>> form of the link: 
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform<https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform>
>> 
>> Apologies and thank you for your interest.
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> From: Sursound 
>> mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu>> On 
>> Behalf Of Douglas Murray
>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 April 2023 6:19 PM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>> mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of 
>> Binaural Hearing” Survey
>> 
>> The survey link supplied gives me an error when I click on it, as follows:
>> 
>> Invalid Dynamic Link
>> 
>> Requested URL must be a parseable URI, but possibly incomplete to be a 
>> DynamicLink.
>> 
>> If you are the developer of this app, ensure that your Dynamic Links domain 
>> is correctly configured and that the path component of this URL is valid.
>> 
>> Douglas
>> 
>>>> On Apr 19, 2023, at 12:57 AM, Alan Kan 
>>>> mailto:alan@mq.edu.au<mailto:alan@mq.edu.au%3cmailto:alan@mq.edu.au>>>
>>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear List,
>>> 
>>> Apologies for cross-posting.
>>> 
>>> The Acoustical Society of America’s, ASA Academy is considering offering a 
>>> short course on the “Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing,” and we would 
>>> greatly appreciate the thoughts and inputs of list member regarding such a 
>>> course. All would be welcome in the course, however the primary audience 
>>> would be individuals such as engineers, software developers, and 
>>> technicians who have started a job that requires a basic level of knowledge 
>>> of binaural hearing but have had little-to-no experience with acoustics or 
>>> auditory perception. Potential course topics could include:
>>> 
>>> 1) Fundamentals of acoustics (e.g., basic wave propagation, refraction, 
>>> reflection)
>>> 2) Digital signal processing (e.g., sampling, quantization, filtering, FFT)
>>> 3) Fundamentals of Hearing (e.g., physical structure of ear, cochlear 
>>> transduction, basic perception, auditory pathways in the brain)
>>> 4) Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing (e.g., ILDs, ITDs, spectral cues)
>>> 5) Applications of Spatial Audio (e.g., HRTFs, head tracking, dynamic vs 
>>> static spatialization, room modeling)
>>> 
>>> To help us further develop the course, and gauge interest, we have put 
>>> together a brief survey.
>>> 
>>> If you would be willing to complete the survey, and/or distribute to others 
>>> in your network that may be interested, that would be great!
>>> 
>>> Survey link: 
>>> https://forms.gle/ztYi5z9W1C9sbNELA<https://forms.gle/ztYi5z9W1C9sbNELA><

Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing” Survey

[Douglas Murray]

Alan,

Your long link worked. Thanks for updating that. 

It seems to me that the full appreciation of binaural sound without head 
tracking is perhaps more of a learned skill than an automatic sensation. I 
wonder if this can be taught?

Douglas

> On Apr 20, 2023, at 2:10 AM, Alan Kan  wrote:
> 
> Strange. The shortened link is generated by Google Sheets. Here’s the long 
> form of the link: 
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeeya9pD70oYqCaN4DwYzqJp2F-W0gIa74cHSUeyyexxJcPeQ/viewform
> 
> Apologies and thank you for your interest.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Alan
> 
> From: Sursound  On Behalf Of Douglas Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, 19 April 2023 6:19 PM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of Binaural 
> Hearing” Survey
> 
> The survey link supplied gives me an error when I click on it, as follows:
> 
> Invalid Dynamic Link
> 
> Requested URL must be a parseable URI, but possibly incomplete to be a 
> DynamicLink.
> 
> If you are the developer of this app, ensure that your Dynamic Links domain 
> is correctly configured and that the path component of this URL is valid.
> 
> Douglas
> 
>> On Apr 19, 2023, at 12:57 AM, Alan Kan 
>> mailto:alan@mq.edu.au>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear List,
>> 
>> Apologies for cross-posting.
>> 
>> The Acoustical Society of America’s, ASA Academy is considering offering a 
>> short course on the “Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing,” and we would greatly 
>> appreciate the thoughts and inputs of list member regarding such a course. 
>> All would be welcome in the course, however the primary audience would be 
>> individuals such as engineers, software developers, and technicians who have 
>> started a job that requires a basic level of knowledge of binaural hearing 
>> but have had little-to-no experience with acoustics or auditory perception. 
>> Potential course topics could include:
>> 
>> 1) Fundamentals of acoustics (e.g., basic wave propagation, refraction, 
>> reflection)
>> 2) Digital signal processing (e.g., sampling, quantization, filtering, FFT)
>> 3) Fundamentals of Hearing (e.g., physical structure of ear, cochlear 
>> transduction, basic perception, auditory pathways in the brain)
>> 4) Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing (e.g., ILDs, ITDs, spectral cues)
>> 5) Applications of Spatial Audio (e.g., HRTFs, head tracking, dynamic vs 
>> static spatialization, room modeling)
>> 
>> To help us further develop the course, and gauge interest, we have put 
>> together a brief survey.
>> 
>> If you would be willing to complete the survey, and/or distribute to others 
>> in your network that may be interested, that would be great!
>> 
>> Survey link: 
>> https://forms.gle/ztYi5z9W1C9sbNELA<https://forms.gle/ztYi5z9W1C9sbNELA><https://forms.gle/ztYi5z9W1C9sbNELA<https://forms.gle/ztYi5z9W1C9sbNELA>>
>> 
>> Thank you for your help and input.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> ASA Academy - Psychological & Physiological Acoustics Planning Committee
>> 
>> ---
>> Dr. Alan Kan, PhD (he/his/him)
>> Lecturer
>> School of 
>> Engineering<https://www.mq.edu.au/faculty-of-science-and-engineering/departments-and-schools/school-of-engineering>
>>  | Macquarie University
>> Level 1, 50 Waterloo Road, Macquarie Park, NSW 2113, Australia
>> T: +61 (2) 9850 2247
>> 
>> ECHO Lab | Macquarie University 
>> Hearing<https://www.mq.edu.au/about/about-the-university/vision-strategy/other-university-initiatives/hearing>
>>  | Australian Hearing 
>> Hub<https://hearinghub.edu.au/<https://hearinghub.edu.au>>
>> Room 1.626, 16 University Avenue, Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia
>> T: +61 (2) 9850 4520
>> 
>> E: alan@mq.edu.au<mailto:alan@mq.edu.au>
>> W: 
>> researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/alan-kan<https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/alan-kan>
>>  | 
>> www.mq.edu.au/research/echolab<http://www.mq.edu.au/research/echolab<http://www.mq.edu.au/research/echolab%3chttp:/www.mq.edu.au/research/echolab>>
>> L: 
>> www.linkedin.com/in/alan-kan<http://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-kan><http://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-kan<http://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-kan>>
>> 
>> [cid:image001.png@01D9729C.E580ABE0]
>> 
>> CRICOS Provider 2J. ABN: 90 952 801 237.
>> 
>> This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain 
>> confidential information. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please delete the message and notify the 

Re: [Sursound] ASA Academy short course on “Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing” Survey

[Douglas Murray]

The survey link supplied gives me an error when I click on it, as follows:

Invalid Dynamic Link

Requested URL must be a parseable URI, but possibly incomplete to be a 
DynamicLink.

If you are the developer of this app, ensure that your Dynamic Links domain is 
correctly configured and that the path component of this URL is valid.

Douglas

> On Apr 19, 2023, at 12:57 AM, Alan Kan  wrote:
> 
> Dear List,
> 
> Apologies for cross-posting.
> 
> The Acoustical Society of America’s, ASA Academy is considering offering a 
> short course on the “Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing,” and we would greatly 
> appreciate the thoughts and inputs of list member regarding such a course.  
> All would be welcome in the course, however the primary audience would be 
> individuals such as engineers, software developers, and technicians who have 
> started a job that requires a basic level of knowledge of binaural hearing 
> but have had little-to-no experience with acoustics or auditory perception.   
> Potential course topics could  include:
> 
> 1) Fundamentals of acoustics (e.g., basic wave propagation, refraction, 
> reflection)
> 2) Digital signal processing (e.g., sampling, quantization, filtering, FFT)
> 3) Fundamentals of Hearing (e.g., physical structure of ear, cochlear 
> transduction, basic perception, auditory pathways in the brain)
> 4) Fundamentals of Binaural Hearing (e.g., ILDs, ITDs, spectral cues)
> 5) Applications of Spatial Audio (e.g., HRTFs, head tracking, dynamic vs 
> static spatialization, room modeling)
> 
> To help us further develop the course, and gauge interest, we have put 
> together a brief survey.
> 
> If you would be willing to complete the survey, and/or distribute to others 
> in your network that may be interested, that would be great!
> 
> Survey link:  
> https://forms.gle/ztYi5z9W1C9sbNELA
> 
> Thank you for your help and input.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ASA Academy - Psychological & Physiological Acoustics Planning Committee
> 
> ---
> Dr. Alan Kan, PhD (he/his/him)
> Lecturer
> School of 
> Engineering
>  | Macquarie University
> Level 1, 50 Waterloo Road, Macquarie Park, NSW 2113, Australia
> T: +61 (2) 9850 2247
> 
> ECHO Lab | Macquarie University 
> Hearing
>  | Australian Hearing Hub
> Room 1.626, 16 University Avenue, Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia
> T: +61 (2) 9850 4520
> 
> E:  alan@mq.edu.au
> W: 
> researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/alan-kan
>  | www.mq.edu.au/research/echolab
> L: www.linkedin.com/in/alan-kan
> 
> [cid:image001.png@01D9729C.E580ABE0]
> 
> CRICOS Provider 2J. ABN: 90 952 801 237.
> 
> This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential 
> information. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please delete the message and notify the sender. Views expressed 
> in this message are those of the individual
> sender and are not necessarily the views of Macquarie University and its 
> controlled entities.
> 
> -- next part --
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Re: [Sursound] contact with Umashankar -

[Douglas Murray]

Jim, 

Umashankar responded to my emails in February. 

umashanks at gmail dot com

D

> On Nov 21, 2022, at 8:34 PM, James Mastracco  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello - 
> 
> Is anyone in touch with Umashankar?  I want to send my Bramha in for 
> recalibration, but I am not getting a response writing to the email address I 
> have for him. 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim Mastracco
> 
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Re: [Sursound] Binaural rendering of an Eigenmike recording

[Douglas Murray]

Dear Jens,

That sounds really good.

Best,
Doug

> On May 21, 2020, at 9:03 AM, Jens Ahrens  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> … and another post from me. 
> 
> Here’s a quick 2-min video of what binaural rendering of an Eigenmike 
> recording can sound like for those of you who haven’t heard this before: 
> https://youtu.be/qcqeygqjxZ4 It’s 4th order rendered directly in the 
> spherical harmonic domain (without a virtual discrete loudspeaker array). The 
> rendering was done with ReTiSAR 
> (https://github.com/AppliedAcousticsChalmers/ReTiSAR), which is generously 
> funded by Facebook Reality Labs. 
> 
> Best regards,
> Jens
> 
> -- 
> Jens Ahrens
> Associate Professor
> Division of Applied Acoustics
> Chalmers University of Technology
> 41296 Gothenburg
> Sweden
> +46 (0)31 772 2210
> http://www.ta.chalmers.se/people/jens-ahrens/ 
> 
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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Audio - Interactive Installation

[Douglas Murray]

Hi Michelle,

I believe the Waves NX toolkit allows only for head tracking around a point. 
It’s accelerometer technology doesn’t allow for movement within a room, but 
only head turns and tilts. So you wouldn’t be able to use the Mobius headphones 
to track variable proximity to different virtual sound sources with that 
technology. Each listener would be in the same virtual position no matter where 
they stand or move, while the phones would track when they tilt and turn their 
heads only.

I’m afraid I am ignorant enough to know not to suggest working alternatives, 
but I know they exist.

All the best,

Doug

> On Sep 27, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Michelle Irving 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm working with an artist who wants to explore Ambisonic Audio
> and use the Audeze Mobius headphones in an audio installation.
> The soundscape will consist of recordings of various individual vocals
> spatialized
> throughout the "room". There is a video projection overhead. Hard sync is
> not required.
> 
> Questions:
> 1.Is it possible to exploit the headtracking of the Mobius headphones to
> give each person and individualized experience of the audio composition.
> ie. Person A is in the far left front corner and hearing a particular voice
> in close proximity while Person B is in the far back right corner barely
> hearing what Person A is hearing?
> 
> 2.If the Answer to 1. is YES - would you recommend using Max/Msp or Arduino
> for configuring hte individual playbacks (mappings between headphones and
> some sort of player)
> 
> 3.I've looked at the Waves NX toolkit and I don't see a feature to
> determine virtual room size?Am I missing something or is there other tech
> that could allow me to map the headtracker to a specific roomsize?
> 
> 4.Open to better ideas how to achieve an interactive Ambisonic audio
> soundscape that works with multiple headsets.
> 
> thanks!
> Michelle
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michelle Irving
> 
> Post-Audio Supervisor
> 
> 416-500-1631
> 
> 507 King St. East
> 
> Toronto, Ontario
> 
> www.soleilsound.com
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Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

[Douglas Murray]

> On May 27, 2019, at 12:09 PM, mgraves mstvp.com  wrote:
> 
> See also Dolby Atmos. Yet another triumph of marketing over reality. Dolby is 
> especially good in that arena.
> 
> Michael Graves

Michael,

Are you referring to the Dolby Atmos sound bars and ceiling bouncing speakers? 
If so I agree. But as a film sound designer, I don’t believe I am succumbing to 
marketing hype when I say that Dolby Atmos in a cinema setting, with its full 
range surrounds and speakers in what were gaps near the screen, is a real 
improvement over other earlier surround formats for cinema. Clearly Dolby is 
trying to generate profits from the mass home market rather than only from the 
small cinema world. It’s probable that any sound bar, whether “Atmos” or not, 
will be an upgrade for whomever buys it, so happy customers, even if the hype 
is not lived up to. Maybe it’s the placebo effect that makes these things work?

Doug Murray
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Re: [Sursound] Accompanying video display

[Douglas Murray]

As a film sound designer and fan of spatial sound, I think it’s very important 
for cinema sound to be mixed and reviewed in the same type of environment as a 
movie theatre, in other words with a projection screen and the front speakers 
behind the "acoustically transparent" screen. Working with a hard screen like a 
big TV means placing the front speakers outside the screen, which leads to 
difficulties in correctly panning across the front speakers.

For cost reasons many edit and design rooms are equipped with flat panel 
displays of various types. That easily delivers the best picture quality for 
the money. If that is what you do I’d place the LCR monitors below or above the 
screen with the L and R speakers’ high frequency drivers placed within the 
screen area. 

Best of luck!

Doug Murray

> On May 15, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Spice, Graham  wrote:
> 
> Hello friends-
>   I’m helping to design a new studio on the campus where I work. We are
> installing a 7.1.4 setup which is very exciting. I’m looking for assistance
> on what type and size video to install.
> 
>   The room is 14’ tall, 11.5’ wide, and 19.5’ deep. What type of video
> would you suggest (screen vs projector) and how large? We plan to use this
> space for vpostproduction work for video and gaming as well as a teaching
> studio for immersive audio so having a large, legible screen is very
> important.
> 
> Thank you very much for your input-
> Graham Spice
> -- 
> Graham Spice
> Assistant Professor of Music - Music Production & Recording Technology
> Shenandoah Conservatory  of Shenandoah
> University 
> Winchester, VA
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Re: [Sursound] Dolby Atmos audio recording on sale...

[Douglas Murray]

Atmos has a 9.1 “bed" (7.1 with two ceiling arrays), and more objects than 
speakers. Therefore each speaker could have an object dedicated to it. Each 
playback space is different though, so Atmos interpolates objects between 
available speakers to “render" desired pan location to actual monitor speaker 
locations.

I suspect that if you wanted to you could set an object at each speaker’s 
location and send a “holistic” recording to each of those speakers. They may 
not be in the optimum locations for ambisonic decoders but it might not be 
entirely incompatible. That could be made to work with some success in a 
particular auditorium for which the objects match the speaker locations. The 
sound field might not translate so well to other Atmos rooms. Which makes me 
wonder: how would an ambisonic sound field would pay back in other sized and 
equipped Atmos rooms? 

I can’t answer any of Spencer’s questions properly. I do know that the Atmos 
RMU (renderer) takes each mono or stereo object audio channel and places or 
pans it around the room based on XYZ and size metadata. These positions are 
mapped to the available speakers based on a stored "room configuration" file in 
the RMU of the number and location of speakers in the particular room. These 
objects can coexist with a conventional “bed” of 7.1 L, C, R, Lss, Rss, Lsr, 
Rsr, LFE arrangement with the addition of the "overhead" two arrays of ceiling 
speakers, 1 running down the left center of the ceiling, and one on the right 
center of the ceiling (called Lts and Rts).

There is practical documentation for cinema mixers at 
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/authoring-for-dolby-atmos-cinema-sound-manual.pdf
 

 which contains specific instructions on how to use current technology, 
primarily Pro Tools, to prepare Atmos masters correctly. They don’t address HOA 
at all. Cinemas have RMU hardware in their projection booths, but there is also 
a software only renderer available for sound design rooms, which often have a 
minimal surround and overhead allotment of speakers.

Doug Murray
Film sound editor



> On Dec 7, 2015, at 10:50 AM, Ben Bloomberg  wrote:
> 
> I think the default configuration is 118 objects
> and two 9.1 beds.
> 
> :/ not ideal.
> 
> Ben
> 
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Spencer Russell  wrote:
> 
>> Is there any technical info available about how Atmos content is
>> encoded? I've seen reference to "128 channels" so does that mean things
>> are encoded as up to 128 simultaneous channels coming from different
>> virtual locations? How do they get re-panned for the client-side speaker
>> configuration? If so are the locations movable or hard-coded in the
>> format? Are there any shoot-outs out there between Atmos and HOA? It's
>> hard to find technical info among all the marketing.
>> 
>> -s
>> 
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Stefan Schreiber wrote:
>>> Peter Lennox wrote:
>>> 
 Yes, the thinking is that a speaker-layout-agnostic format file can be
>> transmitted and decoded at the client end of things, so it could end up
>> being mono, stereo, surround, surround with height, large-scale surround
>> (eg cinema) and so on, depending on the technical competence of the client
>> machine.
 Of course, a lot could go wrong...
 
 
>>> 
>>> With the limitation that audio objects alone don't define a real
>>> acoustic space/environment. (You would have to render this.)
>>> 
>>> It is good to have options. But audio objects are not very compatible
>>> with holistic = real recordings?
>>> 
>>> (Audio objects  have been used  for ages in  game audio, including
>>> rendering of reflections and simulated acoustics.)
>>> 
>>> Dolby Atmos is actually a hybrid (C/O) format.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Stefan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Dr. Peter Lennox
 Senior Lecturer in Perception
 College of Arts
 University of Derby, UK
 e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
 t: 01332 593155
 https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
 
 
 
 
>>> 
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Re: [Sursound] [ot] [rfc] about headphones

[Douglas Murray]

Here's what appears to be a useful way to get some idea of how headphones can 
compare one to another.

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=573&graphID%5B1%5D=2881&graphID%5B2%5D=373&graphID%5B3%5D=963&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones

It looks like the testing system is consistent. I don't know enough to 
interpret the results so as to predict which will sound good enough to use as a 
reference. Comfort and durability are not on the chart!

Douglas Murray

On Jul 23, 2012, at 10:31 PM, "Ronald C.F. Antony"  wrote:

>> From what I understand headphones are supposed to not have a linear 
>> response, because they are designed to compensate for proximity effects etc. 
> 
> Not sure how much of that compensation is to make regular for-speakers-stereo 
> sound passable with headphones, and how much would also have to be done for 
> proper playback of true binaural productions; but a flat frequency response 
> would make for pretty lousy headphones from what I understand.
> 
> Never bothered, though with measurements, simply bought what worked for me: 
> HD580/600/650
> 
> I figured the hearing adapts quickly for a specific frequency response as 
> long as it remains invariant. After all different mixes and masterings are 
> also EQed, and it generally doesn't interfere with music perception all that 
> much; more like different cooks spice the same dish differently, but it's 
> still recognizable as the same dish...
> 
> Sent from my mobile phone
> 
> On 24 Jul 2012, at 00:14, Sampo Syreeni  wrote:
> 
>> As noted above, this is far off-topic, but I'm also guessing quite a number 
>> of people bump up into this question: are my headphones even semi-passable.
>> 
>> I don't want to pretend they were bought for serious binaural work or 
>> anything like that. They were bought for enjoying the nastiest kind of 
>> techno, and then some jazz, and then the other stuff.
>> 
>> But still, these were the best ones I could find at a short notice from a 
>> Finnish brick-and-mortar store, which at least pretend to be neutral despite 
>> their obviously skewed frequency response, despite the lack of any phase 
>> response measurements, and their audiophile-like design which to me is 
>> something of a red flag.
>> 
>> So, do Grado SR225i's work at least a little bit, and are they compensable 
>> even if their response is "a bit" off here and there (a closer to 4dB boost 
>> in the high bass and lower mids isn't just a bit, and the highest end 
>> response just goes off the charts, possibly because of my insistence on an 
>> open design; but then the frequency response over the lower frequencies 
>> suggests that they are closer to a minimum phase system as a whole, with a 
>> tighter temporal response at LF, and more room for correction than with 
>> nulls or even narrow resonances within the band of interest).
>> 
>> So, do these kinds of middle range phones work even a bit? My hearing says 
>> they might, but then I'm a bit on the deficit side, and that bass boost 
>> could fool anybody to think "cooler sounding" is the same as "better, more 
>> transparent".
>> -- 
>> Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
>> +358-50-5756111, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
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