Re: [Sursound] ambisonics audio for 360 film (VR)

[Jake Williams]

Hi there - you may be interested in this.  Just did a test of converting the 
soundtrack of an Ambisonic full-dome show to binaural using the Ambi-X plugins 
(that has a rotate in the suite that we are checking out for a VR version).  
1st Order > Binaural using 5.1 preset.   Be great to know what people think!

https://soundcloud.com/jakeone/soundtrack-to-fragments-binaural-test-listen-on-headphones
 
<https://soundcloud.com/jakeone/soundtrack-to-fragments-binaural-test-listen-on-headphones>

Ambi-X:  http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015 
<http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015>

Cheers

J/



Jake Williams

+44 7932 645145
http://www.jakeone.co.uk
http://www.fliesandflies.com










> On 22 Jul 2015, at 15:52, Ben Bloomberg  wrote:
> 
> It's also worth checking out Richard Furse's libraries. There are quite a
> lot of interesting manipulators, along with various renderers for many
> different platforms.  We have been very happy.
> 
> http://www.blueripplesound.com/
> 
> Ben
> 
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:50 AM, David McGriffy  wrote:
> 
>> Henk,
>> 
>> Sounds like a fun project.  I have run into some other folks using the
>> Kolor Eyes player as well.
>> 
>> I may have just the thing for your new player.  I have been working for a
>> while on a new ambisonic library I'm calling VVSDK.  It does all the things
>> you need, rotate, decode, binaural, and can include my latest A to B-Format
>> conversion code.
>> 
>> Early versions are already in use in the VR and acoustic measurement
>> communities and I use the same library as the back end for my own new
>> plugins.  All this and more should be generally available as soon as I can
>> do the tedious bits like choosing license types, upgrading websites, etc.,
>> but I am ready to talk about individual projects such as yours immediately.
>> 
>> David McGriffy
>> vvaudio.com
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Henk.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:38:53 +0200, "Henk | Spook.fm" wrote :
>>>> My question is: Who can help us find the best libraries for
>>>> ambisonics audio to use in the 360 Video player.
>>> 
>>> I started a similar project, for the web: http://ambisonic.xyz/
>>> A new version (working, but not yet published) will be "full sphere".
>>> 
>>>> So far we have come up with the following:
>>>> 
>>>> you can seem to play ambisonics files with these:
>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://github.com/ComposersDesktop/CDP7/tree/b085aa141fa93c98ae137feae5e7c58d656ddfdd/dev/externals/mctools
>>>> and
>>>> http://www.mega-nerd.com/libsndfile/
>>>> 
>>>> Are these the same?
>>> 
>>> Short answer: no.
>>> 
>>>> which one would be best for this project?
>>> 
>>> I created a batch processor to convert and compress ambisonic files,
>>> using a combination of command-line utilities from the mctools and
>>> libsndfile, and others. To be published, eventually...
>>> 
>>>> Are there other options for rotation? People have experience with
>>>> these libraries? Which one would be best for this project?
>>> 
>>> I use the h1b_rotate.dsp Faust processor from ADT (by Aaron Heller):
>>> https://bitbucket.org/ambidecodertoolbox/adt/
>>> It provides a rotation transformation for each axis (yaw, pitch, roll).
>>> 
>>>> Where can I find the best HRTFs?
>>> 
>>> Try the ones from the ATK "kernels".
>>> 
>>>> Which one is a good starting point for the “average” head?
>>> 
>>> From the ATK kernels, there's the HRIRs based on the "spherical" model
>>> by Richard O. Duda (number 4 is the average, other variations
>>> correspond to smaller and bigger spheres).
>>> 
>>> Try my player on ambisonic.xyz...
>>> 
>>> There's also the hb1_to_binaural.dsp Faust processor from ADT, also
>>> based on the spherical model. The spherical model is is for "horizontal
>>> only" decoding, but for interactive media it's not a serious problem.
>>> 
>>>> If anyone has some suggestions or tips for this project it is very
>>>> much appreciated.
>>> 
>>> I hope it helps.
>>> 
>>>> I will keep this group informed about future progress.
>>> 
>>> Please do!
>>> 
>>> Marc
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> thank you,

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics and Binaural in Reaper

[Jake Williams]

thanks enda - just seen this will check them out !


Jake Williams

+44 7932 645145
http://www.jakeone.co.uk
http://www.fliesandflies.com










> On 27 May 2015, at 21:49, James Anthony Enda Bates  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jake/Martin, here are those videos I mentioned.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ5sdldXo-Y
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cDAVFWMiEw
> 
> They're somewhat rough and ready, but they should give you the basic idea
> of  how to setup ambisonics encoding and decoding to binaural in Reaper.
> The AmbiX suite have a number of really useful plugins (thanks Matthias!)
> including a binaural decoder. There's also a very handy converter plugin to
> shift between different formulations of ambisonics (Furse-Malham, SN3, etc)
> and the video shows how you can use this to mix and match different
> encoders and decoders (the Wigware and Ambi-X plugins are used in the
> video).
> 
> So, if you have a piece encoded using the WigWare plugins, you don't need
> to replace all of the encoders with the AmbiX plugins (or do some math!) in
> order to use the AmbiX decoder.
> 
> The second video shows how to decode a soundfield mic recording
> specifically, and if I get a chance, I'll try to put together some template
> Reaper projects too.
> All the best,
> Enda
> 
> - www.endabates.net
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Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz

[Jake Williams]

Hi James. Yes i would defo like to see this video :-)
On 26 May 2015 5:04 pm, "James Anthony Enda Bates"  wrote:

>  > > I'd like to make a binaural version
> > > available to the players in addition to the stereo version. Is
> > > there a freeware version out there for windows (don't have mac)? I
>
> The Ambi-X plugins include a binaural decoder which should do this for you,
> on either Windows or OSX. All you need to do is import your b-format
> recordings into Reaper, play them through the Ambi-X binaural decoder and
> record the output.
>
> I have a little video demonstrating how to do this which I can make
> available if you'd like?
> e
>
>
>
> --
> - www.endabates.net
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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Jake Williams]

nice one guys :-) j/

Jake Williams

+44 7932 645145
http://www.jakeone.co.uk
http://www.fliesandflies.com










On 19 Nov 2014, at 07:19, Bo-Erik Sandholm  
wrote:

> Hi Jake 
>> The soundtrack is ambisonic and we will be looming to convert to binaural.
> Make sure you include real time head tracking in the binaural processing, if 
> not you will not have video and sound coherence.
> One factor when choosing software solution can be your sound tracks ambisonic 
> order.
> 
> There are several ways to start doing this:
>   Free software 
>http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2091  Complete!  using AmbiX 
>You only need to modify the OSC receiver/interface for sound field 
> rotation control to accept Oculus Rift direction sensors syntax.
> 
>http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/wiki/tiki-index.php
>Csound http://www.csounds.com/journal/issue16/multibin.html 
> http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Android-HRTF-and-ambisonic-td5724195.html
>  Commercial alternatives
>http://harpex.net/download.html support head tracking
>
> http://www.blueripplesound.com/products/binaural-surround-vst combinations of 
> plugins needed 
>- and in both cases Oculus Rift integration is still 
> needed. 
>   Check out the effect of head tracking with 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.hcenteno.ambiexplorer with 
> your phone as a sensor or external Bluetooth sensor.
> 
> 
> Good luck to you and hope your effort with this project result in a Oculus 
> Rift driver and software compbination that can freely be used by the 
> exploding VR community.
> 
> Best Regards Bo-Erik Sandholm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jake 
> Williams
> Sent: den 18 november 2014 19:40
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?
> 
> I have recently been involved in a 3d realtime fulldome show. We are looking 
> into making an oculus version. The soundtrack is ambisonic and we will be 
> looming to convert to binaural. This may not in anyway be helpful. J On 12 
> Nov 2014 18:24, "Braxton Boren"  wrote:
> 
> 
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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Jake Williams]

I have recently been involved in a 3d realtime fulldome show. We are
looking into making an oculus version. The soundtrack is ambisonic and we
will be looming to convert to binaural. This may not in anyway be helpful. J
On 12 Nov 2014 18:24, "Braxton Boren"  wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> Our lab is working on some audio spatialization techniques that we'd like
> to sync up with visual content over the Oculus Rift. We would like to
> process the Ambisonic audio content separately (using head-tracking data
> from the Oculus) for binaural rendering while the interactive VR visuals
> are running on the Oculus.
>
> I was just wondering if there are any freely available demos that include
> both VR visuals for Oculus as well as Ambisonic sound files.
>
> So I'm basically looking for
>
>- VR visual content *integrated *with the Oculus Rift
>- *Raw *Ambisonic recordings that go along with the VR simulation
>
> Alternatively, if there is no Ambisonic content I could start out with
> binaural audio being output, but farther down the line I'd prefer raw
> Ambisonic recordings to be able to test different binaural rendering
> techniques as well.
>
> Let me know if you know of anything available along these lines. Thanks so
> much!
>
> --Braxton
>
> --
> Braxton Boren
> Postdoctoral Research Associate
> 3D Audio and Applied Acoustics Laboratory
> Princeton University
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Re: [Sursound] Low-latency, ultra-stable Ambisonics for club install?

[Jake Williams]

Hey guys,

Yes I think a lot of the latency comes from the Ableton - Max hookup through 
Jack.  We tried Max standalone running ICST ambiencode/decode recently and had 
no problems.

I guess the worry is running a computer with Max over a long period of time 
without glitches, crashes..

Best

Jake.






Jake Williams

+44 7932 645145
http://www.jakeone.co.uk
http://www.fliesandflies.com










On 17 Oct 2014, at 23:08, Anthony Palomba  wrote:

> Hey folks,
> 
> I may be a bit late to joining this discussion. But I am trying to do the
> exact same thing in Max.
> Augustine, can you describe your setup? Are you encoding the audio in Max?
> Where is the decoding being done?
> 
> 
> -ap
> 
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Augustine Leudar > wrote:
> 
>> Thats weird because I use ambipanning for live shows all the time with up
>> to 32 speakers and have no latency problems. The difference is though I
>> just use them with Max not through ableton. Have you thought of having
>> seperate audio channels coming out of your favourite Daw and just route
>> them into audio inputs of max to be spatialised ?
>> 
>> On 17 September 2014 06:52, Peter Lennox  wrote:
>> 
>>> I'll be interested to hear about your progress.
>>> 
>>> In the back of my garage, I have a zero-latency 8-way 1st order
>>> encode-decode device (it even has a 4-way 1st order feed for subs). It's
>>> wholly analogue, and we used it in Ambisonix Dance nights in the 90's.
>> The
>>> 4 outputs of an analogue desk passed into 4 inputs which were encoded  as
>>> front-left, front right, back-right, back left. Movement was crudely
>>> achieved by simply cross fading across the buses in the desk.
>> Additionally,
>>> a through-route for B-format recordings (or indeed, the output from a
>>> computer that was encoding to b-format) passed into the decode section of
>>> the device. The device looks like some monstrous breadboard from Baron
>> Von
>>> Frankenstein's lab, bodged into an ex military 19" rack mount (so you
>> could
>>> stand an elephant on it, if need be- though we never called on this
>>> particular facility). I think it might not pass PAT criteria today.
>>> 
>>> If such a device seems rather crude and a world away from HOA - well, it
>>> was. On the other hand, it never crashed. But an interesting point - I
>>> never heard a club-goer complain about the lack of precision of phantom
>>> imagery - focus, ensemble depth, apparent source width, any of those
>>> things. It wasn't for electroacoustic concerts, or virtual reality.
>>> 
>>> Years later, I had a student, Caryl Jones, carry out a study on potential
>>> DJ tools for ambisonics. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, she found many of the
>>> more subtle effects possible in ambisonics were wasted -and too
>> cumbersome
>>> to operate in real time by the DJ (even when she tracked down the
>> hardcore
>>> of intelligent DJs who wanted to experiment). Instead, simple to operate
>>> and with maximum possible perceptual changes seemed to be the order of
>> the
>>> day - and most importantly, stuff that had (or could have) a 'musical
>>> reason for existing' in the club context.
>>> 
>>> Finally, in a series of experiments at the Glade festival, with Tony and
>>> John of Funktion One, my collegue (Bruce Wiggins) and I experimented in
>>> that context with  a system that used F1's 1st order analogue
>> encode-decode
>>> chain, and Bruce's (2rd order)software chain, operating in parallel into
>>> the 8 channel speaker array - again with a 4-way sub arrangement. That
>> was
>>> when we first heard John Leonard's "when geese go bad" recording over a
>>> 40kW rig - result: Dinosaur-size geese. And in sound testing, the
>> motorbike
>>> recordings (from Soundfield's website) drove the council guys with their
>>> sound level measuring gear bonkers - they couldn't work out where the
>>> lunatic on the bike was.
>>> The flypast of the spitfires wasn't bad, too.
>>> 
>>> So, I'm saying that a solution that allows parallel processing, so that
>>> some things can be quick-and-dirty, whilst others can be
>>> precise-but-complex, might suit your needs?
>>> Regards
>>> ppl
>>> Dr. Peter Lennox
>>> 
>>> School of Technology,
>>> Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology
>>> University of Derby, UK
>>> e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
&

Re: [Sursound] Low-latency, ultra-stable Ambisonics for club install?

[Jake Williams]

Great - that's very interesting, thanks.   Does anyone have any views on what 
ICST call Ambisonic Equivalent Panning?  This sounds like it could be useful to 
us as we need nice sounding panning algorithms but it doesn't have to be 
transferrable to other systems via B-Format..

J/


Jake Williams

+44 7932 645145
http://www.jakeone.co.uk
http://www.fliesandflies.com










On 17 Sep 2014, at 07:46, Giso Grimm  wrote:

> On 09/16/2014 11:16 PM, Jake Williams wrote:
>> Anyways, to cut to the chase - I am now working on designing some effects 
>> for a nightclub install - the idea being that there will be a subtle 
>> spatialisation of the DJ FX over the 8 speakers using, hopefully, 
>> Ambisonics.  Basically I am researching the best way to do this.  For 
>> Fragments I used Ableton going into the ICST externals in MaxMSP, but I 
>> can't get the latency low enough for a realtime, live signal without 
>> glitching and instability (the audio was all inside Ableton for the show, so 
>> a high buffer size was possible).  The producers of the project are keen not 
>> to use standard home computers, so I am looking for a rock-solid, very low 
>> latency solution.  What are your guys thoughts?  From digging in the 
>> archives (admittedly only as far back as 2011) I have identified some 
>> different possibilities -
>> 
>> 1.  Ambdec on something running Linux
> 
> We use a concert setup with ambdec and self-made (C++) spatialization
> software on Linux, for real-time spatialization of acoustic instruments.
> The electric latency from mic input to loudspeaker output was in the
> order of 8 ms, everything at 64 frames/block and 44.1 kHz with ardour2
> for mixing. It was glitch-free up to a CPU load of about 80%. In later
> concert using ardour3 for mixing we had to use 128 frames, leading to
> something like 15-20ms latency (also due to different routing).
> 
> Best,
> 
> Giso
> 
>> 2.  HOA on something running PureData (maybe Linux again?)
>> 3.  Ambi-X on Reaper (though this is only PC or Mac?)
>> 3.  Some sort of bespoke microprocessor solution, maybe based on Ambisonic 
>> Equivalent Panning?
>> 4.  Some sort of control over VCA faders in a quasi-analogue solution 
>> (though I have seen posts about this where you guys are not keen :-)
>> 5.  Has anyone run Ambisonics on a Kyma system??
>> 
>> We will be feeding live FX sends into the system to be spatialised in some 
>> preset patterns in it's basic operational mode.. it will of course be 
>> customisable for bespoke shows.  
>> 
>> Anyways if any of you have any input I would be very grateful :-)
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Jake
>> 
>> 
>> Jake Williams
>> 
>> +44 7932 645145
>> http://www.jakeone.co.uk
>> http://www.fragmentsav.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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[Sursound] Low-latency, ultra-stable Ambisonics for club install?

[Jake Williams]

Hello everyone!

I thought after the obligatory period of lurking and digging I'd raise my head 
and say hello - and hopefully canvas some opinions from your wealth of 
experience here.  I met a few of you earlier in the year at the iX Symposium in 
Montreal (I was doing the music for the live, improvised full-dome / Ambisonic 
AV show Fragments).

Though I have worked on multi-channel pieces before, Fragments was my first 
foray into Ambisonics and since then I have been rather obsessed (although my 
grasp of the science is still a little shaky). 

Anyways, to cut to the chase - I am now working on designing some effects for a 
nightclub install - the idea being that there will be a subtle spatialisation 
of the DJ FX over the 8 speakers using, hopefully, Ambisonics.  Basically I am 
researching the best way to do this.  For Fragments I used Ableton going into 
the ICST externals in MaxMSP, but I can't get the latency low enough for a 
realtime, live signal without glitching and instability (the audio was all 
inside Ableton for the show, so a high buffer size was possible).  The 
producers of the project are keen not to use standard home computers, so I am 
looking for a rock-solid, very low latency solution.  What are your guys 
thoughts?  From digging in the archives (admittedly only as far back as 2011) I 
have identified some different possibilities -

1.  Ambdec on something running Linux
2.  HOA on something running PureData (maybe Linux again?)
3.  Ambi-X on Reaper (though this is only PC or Mac?)
3.  Some sort of bespoke microprocessor solution, maybe based on Ambisonic 
Equivalent Panning?
4.  Some sort of control over VCA faders in a quasi-analogue solution (though I 
have seen posts about this where you guys are not keen :-)
5.  Has anyone run Ambisonics on a Kyma system??

We will be feeding live FX sends into the system to be spatialised in some 
preset patterns in it's basic operational mode.. it will of course be 
customisable for bespoke shows.  

Anyways if any of you have any input I would be very grateful :-)

Cheers

Jake


Jake Williams

+44 7932 645145
http://www.jakeone.co.uk
http://www.fragmentsav.com












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