Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo recording headphones

[Len Moskowitz]

Jon Honeyball wrotes:

Now I quite like the Ambeo headphone/binaural mic thing. Its 
interesting, its small, its cute, and the recordings are adequate 
(even though you only get a choice of two fixed record levels ? errr, 
why???)


The Apogee software is incomplete, buggy and doesn?t do what it 
claims. Yes, I expected rather better from Apogee and Sennheiser.


You might consider a set of our binaural microphones. We've been making 
them since 1990. We're the largest manufacturer of binaural mics in the 
world.


We offer them three price levels, ranging in price from $75 per matched 
pair to a bit over $1000 (using a matched pair of DPA 4060-series 
capsules). They're the Low Cost Binaural, Core Sound Binaurals (for 
around $260 per matched pair) and High End Binaurals.


They all terminate in a standard 1/8-inch (3.5 mm) stereo plug. You'd 
use any common 2-channel audio recorder to record.


See our web site for details, including dozens of user comments on all 
three price levels.



Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic



Jon

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[Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo recording headphones

[Jon Honeyball]

Bought the Sennheiser Ambeo binaural recording headphones. I wanted some on-ear 
mics, and this seemed a relatively cheap and easy way to solve the problem.

(Background requirement — wanting to measure the spectral shape of noise in a 
motorbike helmet, so when i am doing noise testing using my GRAS artificial ear 
and cheek, I am at least driving it with the sort of spectral noise that you 
actually get in a helmet. Yes, its not precise, but it was an interesting bit 
of “I wonder…” fun R)

The Ambeo headphones plug into an iPhone using a lightening port. This powers 
the headphones, acts as the IO for the mics and headphones etc.

Sennheiser recommends an app from Apogee called MetaRecorder. I downloaded it. 
It only records for 60 seconds in the free version. Yes, 60 seconds. To get 
proper length recording you have to cough up £4.99 for a single device full 
version

So I paid

I did some recordings, and decided to use its “Send to Dropbox” feature to copy 
my recordings out. Dropbox throws a warning that Apogee is using an old API 
that will stop working in a few months. Tried it anyway. That doesn’t work, 
output to Dropbox keels over. Contacted Apogee support. They admit it doesn’t 
work. It might get fixed. But they have no timescale.

Now I quite like the Ambeo headphone/binaural mic thing. Its interesting, its 
small, its cute, and the recordings are adequate (even though you only get a 
choice of two fixed record levels — errr, why???)

The Apogee software is incomplete, buggy and doesn’t do what it claims. Yes, I 
expected rather better from Apogee and Sennheiser. 

Jon
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Alvin Foster]

Jim



Alvin Foster
Sent from cell phoneOn Nov 11, 2016 12:25 PM, len moskowitz wrote: > > Back in 
September, Paul Hodges asked: > > > Any word about calibration? > > We've heard 
from Sennheiser representatives on Facebook that they are > not calibrating 
each Ambeo individually, but rather are using a generic > calibration for all 
examples of that microphone. That is much like what > TSL Products is doing 
with their SoundField SPS200. > > In contrast, each TetraMic comes with its own 
calibration. > > Bo-Erik (Bosse) Sandholm has posted  the first B-format 
recordings that > compare Ambeo to TetraMic: > >   
https://soundcloud.com/user-740566308/ > > You can also download them from 
there. > > I listened to them with a Blumlein decode and six-channel horizontal 
> surround decode using David McGriffy's "VVMic for TetraMic". > > In my 
opinion, his two recordings of the Pygme Jazz Band are > particularly 
revealing. > > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com) > Core Sound LLC > 
www.core-sound.com > Home of TetraMic > > 
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[Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[len moskowitz]

Back in September, Paul Hodges  asked:


Any word about calibration?


We've heard from Sennheiser representatives on Facebook that they are 
not calibrating each Ambeo individually, but rather are using a generic 
calibration for all examples of that microphone. That is much like what 
TSL Products is doing with their SoundField SPS200.


In contrast, each TetraMic comes with its own calibration.

Bo-Erik (Bosse) Sandholm has posted  the first B-format recordings that 
compare Ambeo to TetraMic:


  https://soundcloud.com/user-740566308/

You can also download them from there.

I listened to them with a Blumlein decode and six-channel horizontal 
surround decode using David McGriffy's "VVMic for TetraMic".


In my opinion, his two recordings of the Pygme Jazz Band are 
particularly revealing.



Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Luke Smiles]

Nothing as yet.  Hopefully more news will become available soon.

luke_

--
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motion laboratories
GPO BOX 1417
Melbourne VIC 3001
Australia

> On 18 Sep 2016, at 02:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> 
> Any word about calibration?
> 
> Paul

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Stefan Schreiber]

Luke Smiles wrote:

Sorry it seems the currency symbols messed things up. 




Here’s the info again (from a rep at Sennheiser):
EU 1,500 plus tax or US 1,650 plus tax for the mic,



Or let's define some < new > way to express "€" or "$" symbols in 
jurassic 7-bit ASCII mail code:


1,500 EU bucks, 1650 US bucks. ("US buck" replaces $, to be consistent...)

-

Stefan

P.S.: Prices in £/GBP , BTW?   O:-)





software, cable and fixing tools.

luke_

--
Luke Smiles
motion laboratories
GPO BOX 1417
Melbourne VIC 3001
Australia



 


On 17 Sep 2016, at 02:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:

Is that a typo, or is it really ten times more expensive in the USA?

David
   



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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Stefan Schreiber]

David Pickett wrote:


At 18:16 15-09-16, Luke Smiles wrote:
>
>It appears the Sennheiser Ambeo will be on sale from November with a
>street price of EU €1,500 plus tax or US $11,650 plus tax for the mic,
>software, cable and fixing tools.
>
>luke_
>

Is that a typo, or is it really ten times more expensive in the USA?



Luke wrote:


ith a street price of EU €1,500 plus tax or US $1,650 plus tax for the mic, 
software, cable and fixing tools.



Seems pretty much the same price...

(You somehow doubled the "1".)

Best,

Stefan




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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Luke Smiles]

Sorry it seems the currency symbols messed things up.  Here’s the info again 
(from a rep at Sennheiser):
EU 1,500 plus tax or US 1,650 plus tax for the mic, software, cable and fixing 
tools.

luke_

--
Luke Smiles
motion laboratories
GPO BOX 1417
Melbourne VIC 3001
Australia



> On 17 Sep 2016, at 02:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> 
> Is that a typo, or is it really ten times more expensive in the USA?
> 
> David

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Barry G. Butler]

Hi, its meant to be about USD$2,000

On 16 September 2016 at 01:12, David Pickett  wrote:

> At 18:16 15-09-16, Luke Smiles wrote:
> >
> >It appears the Sennheiser Ambeo will be on sale from November with a
> >street price of EU €1,500 plus tax or US $11,650 plus tax for the mic,
> >software, cable and fixing tools.
> >
> >luke_
> >
>
> Is that a typo, or is it really ten times more expensive in the USA?
>
> David
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[David Pickett]

At 18:16 15-09-16, Luke Smiles wrote:
>
>It appears the Sennheiser Ambeo will be on sale from November with a
>street price of EU €1,500 plus tax or US $11,650 plus tax for the mic,
>software, cable and fixing tools.
>
>luke_
>

Is that a typo, or is it really ten times more expensive in the USA?

David

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Luke Smiles]

It appears the Sennheiser Ambeo will be on sale from November with a street 
price of EU €1,500 plus tax or US $1,650 plus tax for the mic, software, cable 
and fixing tools.

luke_

--
Luke Smiles
motion laboratories
GPO BOX 1417
Melbourne VIC 3001
Australia

> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 08:17:11 +0100
> From: Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk>
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo
> Message-ID:
>   <CAPw+1zSQ=PRp1LFkBXA4RQgj7P=5R3G+pn5iTHwWVL1eU=x...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Looks like this is going to be pushed at the AES LA show in a couple of
> weeks - they have a nice picture of it in an advert in the newsletter
> that's come out about the show. So, that means (at least) four commercial
> sources of soundfield type mics now - only 41 years after I saw my very
> first one at the London AES in 1975.
> 
> Dave

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo + compare sound quality.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

If you want to see in the form of graphs why the LP sounds better, you can
try this software recording analyser.

http://www.lts.a.se/lts/masvis

It shows you in graphs how the recording engineer and mostly the mastering
engineers have done their job.
It's interesting to compare different releases of famous and well known
recordings, and what's happened over time.

Bo-Erik

On 15 Sep 2016 10:13, "David Pickett"  wrote:

What we are seeing is that large companies, who in the past would not have
paid royalties to make a Soundfield type of microphone, which might have
supported development of Ambisonics, are now jumping on the band-waggon of
VR because they hope that there may be big money in it.  I suppose also
that the people in those companies who had a "not invented here and
therefore a waste of time" attitude have now retired and corporate memory
has forgotten the 1970s.

One does not need to be a conspiracy theorist to see that "big audio
business" ensured that Ambisonics went to the wall, and is now trying to
make money out of it.  With hindsight, one can see that it was the same
with the analog/digital transition.  In 1982, aided by poor quality control
of LP manufacturing, the CD was supposed to provide "perfect sound
forever"; and nowadays companies are trying to sell punters yet another
incarnation of "Kind of Blue" and other classics in both hi-res AND
expensive vinyl formats.

It has been a salutary experience for me in the past year to buy
musty-smelling LPs, manufactured in the 1960s, from second hand record
stores at knock down prices of around 2 pounds (or 3 EUR) and to discover
that they play on my old Thorens TD124 WITHOUT pops, clicks and crackles,
and with a sound quality that is as good as, and in some cases, audibly
better than the CD or Bluray-Audio reissues of the same recordings.

David


At 09:17 15-09-16, Dave Malham wrote:
>Looks like this is going to be pushed at the AES LA show in a couple of
>weeks - they have a nice picture of it in an advert in the newsletter
>that's come out about the show. So, that means (at least) four commercial
>sources of soundfield type mics now - only 41 years after I saw my very
>first one at the London AES in 1975.
>
> Dave
>
>
>--
>
>As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
>These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
>Dave Malham
>Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
>The University of York
>York YO10 5DD
>UK
>
>'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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[Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Dave Malham]

Looks like this is going to be pushed at the AES LA show in a couple of
weeks - they have a nice picture of it in an advert in the newsletter
that's come out about the show. So, that means (at least) four commercial
sources of soundfield type mics now - only 41 years after I saw my very
first one at the London AES in 1975.

 Dave


-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[umashankar manthravadi]

Can one use a tetrahedral array and not decode to B format at all? Some way of 
processing into binaural, with headtracking and HRTF et al ?

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Jon Honeyball<mailto:j...@jonhoneyball.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:50 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

I wonder if they are even aware of soundfield? Just wait for the patent 
applications to come trolling in…


On 17/03/2016, 14:21, "Sursound on behalf of John Leonard" 
<sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu on behalf of j...@johnleonard.uk> wrote:

>That’s because it is…
>
>Apparently, they played around with a couple of other variations and then 
>settled on a tetrahedral array. It’s the software package that’ll determine 
>whether it gets any traction, I think.
>
>Regards,
>
>John
>
>Please note new email address & direct line phone number
>email: j...@johnleonard.uk
>phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942
>
>
>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 03:30, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Well, it looks like an ambisonic mic?
>
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Courville, Daniel]

David Pickett wrote:

>At 07:49 19-03-16, Courville, Daniel wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/15/sennheiser-3d-audio-demo-ambeo/
>>
>>And to give an idea of its size:
>>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdmtiYHUUAAPcVG.jpg:large
>
>Comparing with an actual Rycote holder, I can see that on my monitor, 
>which is 1920 x 1080, the first of these images comes out actual 
>size.  Thus the chrome grille of the capsule has a diametere of 15mm 
>and the top of the brass assembly is 40 mm from the black base.

The first Ambeo prototype used a Sennheiser e 945 grille: at its widest, that 
grille has a diameter of 46,6 mm. That means a pretty small tetrahedron.

A good bet for the capsules is the 14 mm Sennheiser KE 14-234 that's found in 
the e 914.

In this picture: a TetraMic, a SPS200, a Brahma, a ST450, an Ambeo 2nd 
prototype, and, below, a 3Dio Omni Binaural. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BDKIUt-OY6k/

- Daniel
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[John Leonard]

That’s because it is…

Apparently, they played around with a couple of other variations and then 
settled on a tetrahedral array. It’s the software package that’ll determine 
whether it gets any traction, I think.

Regards,

John

Please note new email address & direct line phone number
email: j...@johnleonard.uk
phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942


> On 17 Mar 2016, at 03:30, Peter Lennox  wrote:
> 
> Well, it looks like an ambisonic mic?

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Peter Lennox]

But isn't some american company patenting everything remotely ambisonic?
Dr. Peter Lennox
Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts
University of Derby

Tel: 01332 593155

From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Pickett 
[d...@fugato.com]
Sent: 17 March 2016 20:24
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

At 19:55 17-03-16, alan.va...@talktalk.net wrote:
 >
 >Am I correct in thinking that patents expire after 10 years or so,
 >after which its a free-for-all?

Ten years is a low figure.  But I believe the original
Ambisonic/Soundfield patents are no longer valid.

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Dave Malham]

Depends a bit on when they were granted (laws change) but if you think in
terms of two decades you'd be on the money, at least for "utility" patents
and maybe a bit less for "design" patents though, in fact, "copyright"
lasts longer, in general. All this depends on continued payment of fees to
the relevant patent body and may change again when/if TTIP is signed.
Please note, however, I'm NOT a patent lawyer so treat all these statements
with suspicion :-)

 Dave


On 17 March 2016 at 18:55, alan.va...@talktalk.net <alan.va...@talktalk.net>
wrote:

>
> Am I correct in thinking that patents expire after 10 years or so, after
> which its a free-for-all?
> Alan
>
>
>
> Original Message
> From: d...@fugato.com
> Date: 17/03/2016 17:49
> To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subj: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo
>
> At 17:14 17-03-16, Jon Honeyball wrote:
>
>  >I wonder if they are even aware of soundfield?
>
> It is hardly unlikely that they are NOT aware: the method of holding
> the capsules together looks just like a Soundfield mic!
>
> David
>
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-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Jon Honeyball]

I wonder if they are even aware of soundfield? Just wait for the patent 
applications to come trolling in…


On 17/03/2016, 14:21, "Sursound on behalf of John Leonard" 
 wrote:

>That’s because it is…
>
>Apparently, they played around with a couple of other variations and then 
>settled on a tetrahedral array. It’s the software package that’ll determine 
>whether it gets any traction, I think.
>
>Regards,
>
>John
>
>Please note new email address & direct line phone number
>email: j...@johnleonard.uk
>phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942
>
>
>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 03:30, Peter Lennox  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, it looks like an ambisonic mic?
>
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[David Pickett]

At 17:14 17-03-16, Jon Honeyball wrote:

>I wonder if they are even aware of soundfield?

It is hardly unlikely that they are NOT aware: the method of holding 
the capsules together looks just like a Soundfield mic!


David

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Peter Lennox]

Bruce is on this list - he told me about it. - I'll nudge him - he was 
surprised no-one had noticed it

Joseph - you in Derbyshire? where? (I steam through the Derbyshire Peak 
district every day in my Landrover - not actually at high speed, but it feels 
like it)
Dr. Peter Lennox
Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts
University of Derby

Tel: 01332 593155

From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Joseph Anderson 
[j.ander...@ambisonictoolkit.net]
Sent: 17 March 2016 21:01
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

Hi Peter,

Who? What?

(UW Cherry Blossoms <https://twitter.com/uwcherryblossom> are now in their
full glory outside my office window Hope Spring in Derbyshire has
sprung!)


My best,
Jo


*Joseph Anderson*



*http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/ <http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/>*


On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> But isn't some american company patenting everything remotely ambisonic?
> Dr. Peter Lennox
> Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts
> University of Derby
>
> Tel: 01332 593155
>
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[alan.va...@talktalk.net]

Am I correct in thinking that patents expire after 10 years or so, after which 
its a free-for-all?
Alan



Original Message
From: d...@fugato.com
Date: 17/03/2016 17:49 
To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subj: Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

At 17:14 17-03-16, Jon Honeyball wrote:

 >I wonder if they are even aware of soundfield?

It is hardly unlikely that they are NOT aware: the method of holding 
the capsules together looks just like a Soundfield mic!

David

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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[David Pickett]

At 07:49 19-03-16, Courville, Daniel wrote:
>
>>http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/15/sennheiser-3d-audio-demo-ambeo/
>
>And to give an idea of its size:
>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdmtiYHUUAAPcVG.jpg:large

Comparing with an actual Rycote holder, I can see that on my monitor, 
which is 1920 x 1080, the first of these images comes out actual 
size.  Thus the chrome grille of the capsule has a diametere of 15mm 
and the top of the brass assembly is 40 mm from the black base.


David 


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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Joseph Anderson]

Hi Peter,

Who? What?

(UW Cherry Blossoms  are now in their
full glory outside my office window Hope Spring in Derbyshire has
sprung!)


My best,
Jo


*Joseph Anderson*



*http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/ *


On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Peter Lennox  wrote:

> But isn't some american company patenting everything remotely ambisonic?
> Dr. Peter Lennox
> Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts
> University of Derby
>
> Tel: 01332 593155
>
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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Paul Hodges]

--On 17 March 2016 09:30 + Peter Lennox 
wrote:

> Well, it looks like an ambisonic mic?

Not much trouble taken to get the capsules as close as possible, though.

Paul

-- 
Paul Hodges

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[Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Courville, Daniel]

http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/15/sennheiser-3d-audio-demo-ambeo/


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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[David Pickett]

At 19:55 17-03-16, alan.va...@talktalk.net wrote:
>
>Am I correct in thinking that patents expire after 10 years or so,
>after which its a free-for-all?

Ten years is a low figure.  But I believe the original 
Ambisonic/Soundfield patents are no longer valid.


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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Peter Lennox]

Well, it looks like an ambisonic mic?

Dr. Peter Lennox
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts
University of Derby, UK
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk 
t: 01332 593155
https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox 
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox 


-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Courville, 
Daniel
Sent: 16 March 2016 12:34
To: Sursound <sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/15/sennheiser-3d-audio-demo-ambeo/


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Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo

[Courville, Daniel]

>http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/15/sennheiser-3d-audio-demo-ambeo/

And to give an idea of its size: 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdmtiYHUUAAPcVG.jpg:large
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