Re: [Sursound] B format and atoms

[Jon Honeyball]

We’ve just put a topline atmos system into our IEC listening room – amp/decoder 
thing from Pioneer, and their 5.1.4 speaker arrangement (with four upward 
firing speakers built into the top of the four main speakers). 

It works well, and is interesting especially on 4k HDR UHD bluray discs. 

So am tempted to try to get my b-format into something that I can play out on 
this system, giving me horizontal surround plus height from the four speakers.

jon

On 15/06/2016, 21:29, "Sursound on behalf of David Pickett" 
 wrote:

At 21:07 15-06-16, Augustine Leudar wrote:

 >the point of atmos - from what I
 >can tell , is that you have speakers diffused throughout the space
 >including in the middle of the audience - so you can get sounds to go
 >through, in between, right next to the listeners. Even with focussed
 >sources you cant really do that with ambisonics so Im not sure how well it
 >would translate, happy to be proved wrong though !

Navigating the Dolby website and extracting 
coherent and useful information is not for the 
faint of heart.  But it seems from this page

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5-1-2-setups.html

that the simplest playback requirements are 5.1 
plus 2 speakers either on the ceiling ("We 
recommend that any overhead speaker installation 
be performed by professional installers with 
experience in installing overhead speakers.") or firing up at it.

That being the case, although a mathematical 
mapping makes no sense at all, due to the fact 
that the systems is based on "up to 128 
simultaneous independent audio objects" that 
appear to be panned on a dynamic basis to 
different speakers, it should be possible to get 
some representation in B-format, though 
converting to G-format plus Z channel may be easier.

It is claimed, of course (isn't it always?) that 
"Dolby Atmos® discs and online content are fully 
compatible for playback on conventional stereo 
and on 5.1- and 7.1-channel systems, giving you 
the same outstanding experience you’ve always enjoyed."

In other words, accurate placement of the sources 
is not of the essence (investing in the system is the important thing).

Has anyone here tried Atmos at home?

David 

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Re: [Sursound] B format and atoms

[David Pickett]

At 21:07 15-06-16, Augustine Leudar wrote:

>the point of atmos - from what I
>can tell , is that you have speakers diffused throughout the space
>including in the middle of the audience - so you can get sounds to go
>through, in between, right next to the listeners. Even with focussed
>sources you cant really do that with ambisonics so Im not sure how well it
>would translate, happy to be proved wrong though !

Navigating the Dolby website and extracting 
coherent and useful information is not for the 
faint of heart.  But it seems from this page


http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5-1-2-setups.html

that the simplest playback requirements are 5.1 
plus 2 speakers either on the ceiling ("We 
recommend that any overhead speaker installation 
be performed by professional installers with 
experience in installing overhead speakers.") or firing up at it.


That being the case, although a mathematical 
mapping makes no sense at all, due to the fact 
that the systems is based on "up to 128 
simultaneous independent audio objects" that 
appear to be panned on a dynamic basis to 
different speakers, it should be possible to get 
some representation in B-format, though 
converting to G-format plus Z channel may be easier.


It is claimed, of course (isn't it always?) that 
"Dolby Atmos® discs and online content are fully 
compatible for playback on conventional stereo 
and on 5.1- and 7.1-channel systems, giving you 
the same outstanding experience you’ve always enjoyed."


In other words, accurate placement of the sources 
is not of the essence (investing in the system is the important thing).


Has anyone here tried Atmos at home?

David 


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Re: [Sursound] B format and atoms

[David McGriffy]

Certainly the easiest workflow would be to simply decode your B-format to
your bed format, 9.1 or 7.1.4, and mix into the bed directly. I don't know
of any (released) decoder that does these layouts in a ProTools world, but
you can always just use 7.1 and ignore height to get things working.

Another approach starts by using a nice symmetrical or semi-symmetrical
layout, for which the ambisonic decode works better, then use ATMOS panners
to put the outputs of this decoder into the proper positions. This uses up
objects for however many virtual speakers you use, of course. I have a
sneaking suspicion that properly done square (or maybe 5 channel w/ height)
done this way would sound good on the widest possible variety of playback
systems.

The first approach isn't ideal because, well 7.1, etc. aren't ideal. The
second approach would be even more prone to have ATMOS mess it up somehow,
though things that are normal in large theaters, like front to back delay
lines, would play havoc with ambisonics either way and I don't know if this
is sometimes or always present in ATMOS theaters. I've heard enough real
feedback from folks trying this to know that it can sound fabulous, but not
not enough to tell you how get good results every time.

I would also suggest that by being much more directional in its virtual
speakers, a parametric decoder is likely to suffer less from either of
multi-speaker or delay issues, at least for highly directional sources. I
would highly recommend a parametric decoder for this application.

David
VVAudio

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:18 PM, David Pickett  wrote:

> Has a sufficient spec of Atmos been published to allow one to know what is
> needed to convert it to ambisonics?
>
> If so, I'd be pleased to be pointed to it.
>
> David
>
>
> At 18:30 15-06-16, Jon Honeyball wrote:
> >Are there tools out there for putting b format into atmos, and then
> >doing atmos authoring?
> >
> >What are my options?
> >
> >Ta much
> >
> >jon
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Re: [Sursound] B format and atoms

[Augustine Leudar]

thats atmos > ambsionics - Im sur etehre would be a way to go the other way
round, maybe for some Amos mixes  as well could be converted , but not all
- if they make full use of the system

On 15 June 2016 at 20:07, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> Im not sure if you could to be honest - the point of atmos - from what I
> can tell , is that you have speakers diffused throughout the space
> including in the middle of the audience - so you can get sounds to go
> through, in between, right next to the listeners. Even with focussed
> sources you cant really do that with ambisonics so Im not sure how well it
> would translate, happy to be proved wrong though !
>
> On 15 June 2016 at 19:18, David Pickett  wrote:
>
>> Has a sufficient spec of Atmos been published to allow one to know what
>> is needed to convert it to ambisonics?
>>
>> If so, I'd be pleased to be pointed to it.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> At 18:30 15-06-16, Jon Honeyball wrote:
>> >Are there tools out there for putting b format into atmos, and then
>> >doing atmos authoring?
>> >
>> >What are my options?
>> >
>> >Ta much
>> >
>> >jon
>> >-- next part --
>> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> >___
>> >Sursound mailing list
>> >Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>> >here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
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>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
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>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
>
>


-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] B format and atoms

[Augustine Leudar]

Im not sure if you could to be honest - the point of atmos - from what I
can tell , is that you have speakers diffused throughout the space
including in the middle of the audience - so you can get sounds to go
through, in between, right next to the listeners. Even with focussed
sources you cant really do that with ambisonics so Im not sure how well it
would translate, happy to be proved wrong though !

On 15 June 2016 at 19:18, David Pickett  wrote:

> Has a sufficient spec of Atmos been published to allow one to know what is
> needed to convert it to ambisonics?
>
> If so, I'd be pleased to be pointed to it.
>
> David
>
>
> At 18:30 15-06-16, Jon Honeyball wrote:
> >Are there tools out there for putting b format into atmos, and then
> >doing atmos authoring?
> >
> >What are my options?
> >
> >Ta much
> >
> >jon
> >-- next part --
> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >___
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> >Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> >here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] B format and atoms

[David Pickett]

Has a sufficient spec of Atmos been published to allow one to know 
what is needed to convert it to ambisonics?


If so, I'd be pleased to be pointed to it.

David

At 18:30 15-06-16, Jon Honeyball wrote:
>Are there tools out there for putting b format into atmos, and then
>doing atmos authoring?
>
>What are my options?
>
>Ta much
>
>jon
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[Sursound] B format and atoms

[Jon Honeyball]

Are there tools out there for putting b format into atmos, and then doing atmos 
authoring?

What are my options?

Ta much

jon
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