Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass
Is it worth considering the different experiences of ‘listening to music at home’ and ‘going to a concert’. In my experience concert going is considerably more sonically rewarding. I would also say that this was not genre specific. I work a lot in rock, pop and dance music but I have recently been attending a lot of classical concerts as my son is a percussionist. As you can imagine most of these concerts contained a reasonable amount of percussion. I found myself experiencing the same mechanosensations at the crescendos when the orchestra was going full tilt with tympani and bass drum that I would at a jazz or popular music gig. The complex dynamics I found totally immersive in a way that I had not experienced listening to the same music on even very expensive HiFi. Working on a successful DVD release a few years ago of a show I had been the live sound engineer on, I went to the premier cinema release in the west end. This was music I had listened to over many concerts and I was struck at how well the surround had been mixed, putting me in the centre of the crowd as well as providing a great mix of the group. However the sensation for me was incomplete as their did seem to be something missing which was I believe was the ‘velocity at LF’ referred to by Richard. Now I am not arguing that it was musically important but I believe it contributed greatly to the experience of concert going. The sensation during loud crescendos that the air is moving I and I am sure some others find exciting. I don’t want to hear it all the time, dynamics are essential, but I do miss it when it’s not there. The use of subs is evolving and as ‘digital’ amplifiers become more prevalent, and the costs fall, many advances are being made. How we use this sub is of great interest to me and is prompting my research. Thank you all for your variety of comments many have been most helpful. Bouncers are there for your safety! Jon Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 25 Apr 2015, at 00:01, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote: flapping -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150425/2ada01d7/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
I think my use of the word significant was unwise but I would be interested to hear from anyone else who has looked in the lower spectrum below 30 Hz and found content. In measurements I made, just looking at a local orchestra, there was energy going down below 20hz The heating system was clearly registered at a steady 16hz but this noise was dynamic and matching that of the instruments. This was popular symphonic music, modern dance music as you surmised features much higher levels. Regards Jon On Friday, April 24, 2015, Elizabeth Durand Bill Houston bille...@cavtel.net wrote: I too doubt that most music has sub 20hz material except for some organ and percussion, electronic music and other recordings utilizing sub-harmonic synthesizers. Another obvious source of sub 20hz sound is unwanted environmental noise such as HVAC, traffic etc. Bill Houston Sent from my iPhone ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150424/92bd75e5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Considering most popular music these days is of the electronic variety or contains electronic processing. It all contains sub below 30, albeit rolled off down to 20. I don't know of a mix or record I have done that doesn't contain sub below 30. I manage it though to keep some headroom. Sympathetic resonances also occur during a record, which are.integral to the space, instrumentation, and position. It is generally unwise to put to much below 30 for radio as the whole mix will sound quieter compared to other mixes. Also if it's an old school dance master to vinyl, very low sub causes the needle to jump out of the groove. This is not to say the sub isn't hyped during playback as generally it is, to extremely low infa levels, and sometimes reinforced via floor shakers All the best Steve On 24 Apr 2015 09:10, Jonathan Burton jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: I think my use of the word significant was unwise but I would be interested to hear from anyone else who has looked in the lower spectrum below 30 Hz and found content. In measurements I made, just looking at a local orchestra, there was energy going down below 20hz The heating system was clearly registered at a steady 16hz but this noise was dynamic and matching that of the instruments. This was popular symphonic music, modern dance music as you surmised features much higher levels. Regards Jon On Friday, April 24, 2015, Elizabeth Durand Bill Houston bille...@cavtel.net wrote: I too doubt that most music has sub 20hz material except for some organ and percussion, electronic music and other recordings utilizing sub-harmonic synthesizers. Another obvious source of sub 20hz sound is unwanted environmental noise such as HVAC, traffic etc. Bill Houston Sent from my iPhone ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150424/92bd75e5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150424/a31df891/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
On 2015-04-22, Peter Lennox wrote: I'd be interested in any references indicating deleterious effects on hearing of high amplitudes at LF, if anyone comes across any No references from me, as usual, but there is a certain logic behind the claim. First, because of the loudness sensitivity curve, even very high levels of LF fail to register as being loud, eventhough the damage to acoustocilia correlates with overall amplitude and not frequency. So from that viewpoint the problem isn't that LF is more dangerous per se, it's that bass heavy mixes fool you into playing them too loud for too long. And second, I seem to remember that LF also doesn't as readily trigger our protective reflexes, like the stapedius one, which then compounds the error. -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass
The question isn't whether 'music' has frequencies below 1/zillion Hz. It's whether such content adds to the MUSIC. This is the case ONLY with organs reproduced properly. You can check this with DBLTs. The speaker that has come out top in every single DBLT it has been in nearly 2 decades (some dozen tests in all) was a small 6.5 ltr reflex with 70Hz cutoff. It was usually up against MUCH larger expensive speakers. No one has complained about its bass though some remark it's a bit down. As we did ABC (33% chance if guessing) rather than ABX (50% chance) tests, the probability that this result is chance is extremely small. There's also a lot of myth about how to design speakers for better defined more energetic beat. None of this comes out in DBLTs and this little ported box with terrible LF ringing always has comments like tuneful, well defined bla bla bass attributed to it. Going from 70Hz to 40Hz cutoff will more than triple the size and cost of the speaker .. and to go to 20Hz will more than double that again. You need to decide if you are getting any MUSICAL gains. The organ example ... differentiating 'pressure in the head' and 'velocity' (trouser flapping) sensations is an important part of the MUSIC. For percussion in modern music (??!), Bruce Willis destroying the universe other 21st century stuff, single subs are acceptable as they are all 'pressure in the head (and other parts of the anatomy)' sensations. Distributed subs fed with a mono signal allow this over a larger area. There's another myth that it's difficult to produce LF in small rooms. If all you want to do is dinosaur footsteps et al, this isn't the case. It's easier to pressurize a small room than a large one as you have to stuff less air in out. But a similar sensation is obtained by having someone beat you over parts of your anatomy with a blunt instrument. In a large venue this is cost effective because the required staff are already there. They are called bouncers. What IS difficult is to produce Velocity (trouser flapping) at LF. You have to MOVE all the air in the room. I have no comment on mixes with loadsa stuff below 30Hz that overload the majority of playback systems without any MUSICAL benefit ... whether its to cheat a A-weighted meter or not. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass
Amen, brother! Your argument is further supported by the evolution of the state of high-power silicon. Once upon a time a 200w/c amplifier was a mammoth. There are power amplifiers now that can deliver 90%+ of the power available from the line to the load. These sorts of amps made their debut in bandwidth limited applications like subs, but have migrated all the way to full-band applications in recent years. While I might be inclined to generalise in describing them as digital amplifiers, some are in fact, analog amps but with digital tracking power supplies. Quite recently I read about a multi-channel power amp for home theater applications that requires 2 x 15 A circuits. It delivers 7 channels capable of 300 w/c each. Things can be done with the express purpose of reproducing music, or for effect. Getting 40 Hz seems to be more about effect. Michael - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass From: Richard Lee rica...@justnet.com.au Date: 4/25/15 3:27 am To: 'Surround Sound discussion group' sursound@music.vt.edu The question isn't whether 'music' has frequencies below 1/zillion Hz. It's whether such content adds to the MUSIC. This is the case ONLY with organs reproduced properly. You can check this with DBLTs. The speaker that has come out top in every single DBLT it has been in nearly 2 decades (some dozen tests in all) was a small 6.5 ltr reflex with 70Hz cutoff. It was usually up against MUCH larger expensive speakers. No one has complained about its bass though some remark it's a bit down. As we did ABC (33% chance if guessing) rather than ABX (50% chance) tests, the probability that this result is chance is extremely small. There's also a lot of myth about how to design speakers for better defined more energetic beat. None of this comes out in DBLTs and this little ported box with terrible LF ringing always has comments like tuneful, well defined bla bla bass attributed to it. Going from 70Hz to 40Hz cutoff will more than triple the size and cost of the speaker .. and to go to 20Hz will more than double that again. You need to decide if you are getting any MUSICAL gains. The organ example ... differentiating 'pressure in the head' and 'velocity' (trouser flapping) sensations is an important part of the MUSIC. For percussion in modern music (??!), Bruce Willis destroying the universe other 21st century stuff, single subs are acceptable as they are all 'pressure in the head (and other parts of the anatomy)' sensations. Distributed subs fed with a mono signal allow this over a larger area. There's another myth that it's difficult to produce LF in small rooms. If all you want to do is dinosaur footsteps et al, this isn't the case. It's easier to pressurize a small room than a large one as you have to stuff less air in out. But a similar sensation is obtained by having someone beat you over parts of your anatomy with a blunt instrument. In a large venue this is cost effective because the required staff are already there. They are called bouncers. What IS difficult is to produce Velocity (trouser flapping) at LF. You have to MOVE all the air in the room. I have no comment on mixes with loadsa stuff below 30Hz that overload the majority of playback systems without any MUSICAL benefit ... whether its to cheat a A-weighted meter or not. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150424/5bb7b6d8/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
I too doubt that most music has sub 20hz material except for some organ and percussion, electronic music and other recordings utilizing sub-harmonic synthesizers. Another obvious source of sub 20hz sound is unwanted environmental noise such as HVAC, traffic etc. Bill Houston Sent from my iPhone ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
I think what people mean when legislation measuring at 100 dB-A is an oxymoron. dBA was meant to mimic the equal-loudness curve at low level of listening (around 40 dB spl @ 1k) and is absolutely not representative of the relatively linear curve around 100 dB SPL @1k. The wikipedia articles on psychoacoustics are quite good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Hi Jon, Just across the pond from you, in the Department of Music, we've had a fair bit of experience of this though not through rock concerts but electroacoustic music ones. Now, unlike reportage recording/reproduction systems where you're trying to recreate (or, at least, evoke) an original acoustic event, electroacoustic concerts are 'stand alone' and are, in themselves, an artistic event so messing with the bass isn't a problem. What we found was that composers often had problems maintaining the spectral balance of their pieces in the concert hall at least, compared to what happened in the composition studio. For a performance on a loudspeaker orchestra (check out 'BEAST or the Acousmonium) this would usually be dealt with by the diffusion artist tweaking the spectrum (which s/he would probably be doing, anyway, as part of the performance). But where you were doing just replay (tape music) whether Ambisonic or not, we wanted something a bit more automatic. The problem, as we saw it, was the compression of the perceived dynamic range at the low end of the Fletcher Munson curves. The solution I came up with, at least for Ambisonics, was a box of tricks which, initially anyway, processed just the W signal and sent it to the sub. It consisted of a lowpass filter feeding a parallel combination of a 2:1 compressor and a variable gain amplifier, the outputs of which mixed together. The user had control of the filter frequency, amplifier gain and compressor output level. Tweaking the controls gave a greater or lesser degree of matching to an inverse F-M curve. This meant that the lower frequency components could be made linear as far as the listener was concerned. For some music, at least, this was of considerable benefit. Of course, this didn't solve the problems of the directionality of the bass but that's another story :-) The box may still even be around somewhere in Music, but as I'm retired, I don't actually - but, in any case, it's function has long since been replaced by Max/MSP or Pd processing in the digital domain. Dave On 22 April 2015 at 21:25, jon burton jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: Thats interesting thanks Steve. I am looking for positives rather than negatives! Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 21:21, Steven Boardman boardroomout...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jon I add more sub (from main mix) into the lfe channel for broadcast in Dolby cinemas. For the same reasons. It doesn't register so much on A weighted or Dolby leq (m) meters. This means one can use more headroom of the system and push the dynamics and overall spl in the room. I know a few engineers that do this for broadcast in cinemas. Not sure of any research of the damaging effects though. Best Steve On 22 Apr 2015 20:53, jon burton jgb...@york.ac.uk mailto: jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: There is a wealth of information regarding the negative effects of Low frequency noise but most of it relates either to vibration issues or sleep related problems. The low frequencies produced in concerts have had very little specific health related research. I recently had a long conversation with one of the major custom earplug manufacturers who was of the opinion that the low frequency levels were of little concern at rock and pop concerts and that is was the A weighted band that we should be concerned with. As I am looking at ways of reducing the A weighted levels by increasing energy in the sub 50Hz region I am looking for research done that may relate to this small but interesting area. I have over the past ten years been using sub to help produce a more immersive experience at low levels. I was wondering if any of the group had tried anything similar. I know there has been research done on gaming chairs using vibration but has anyone done work with sound waves? Thanks Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 20:20, Jonathan Burton jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: On Wednesday, April 22, 2015, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: I'd be interested in any references indicating deleterious effects on hearing of high amplitudes at LF, if anyone comes across any cheers ppl Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu mailto: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu javascript:;] On Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier [netti...@stackingdwarves.net mailto: netti...@stackingdwarves.net javascript:;] Sent: 22 April 2015 19:20 To: sursound@music.vt.edu mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. On 04/22/2015 06:49 PM, jon burton
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Tuning and sensitivity of the human vestibular system to low-frequency vibration. Neil P McAngus Todd, Sally M Rosengren James G Colebatch ...These results extend our knowledge of vibration-sensitivity of vestibular afferents but also are remarkable as they indicate that the seismic sensitivity of the human vestibular system exceeds that of the cochlea for low-frequencies. Tuning and sensitivity of the human vestibular system to low-frequency vibration. - ResearchGate. Available from: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/23174127_Tuning_and_sensitivity_of_the_human_vestibular_system_to_low-frequency_vibration and: Todd and Cody: In the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America1, Neil McAngus Todd and Frederick Cody of the University of Manchester suggest that addiction to ultra-loud music results from the fact that it quite literally moves its listeners But in contrast to industrial noise, Todd and Cody point out, much of the signal of loud rock and dance music is at low frequencies-in the bass. They wondered whether loud, low frequencies might be doing something quite different to the ear than normal sound But exactly why some people find acoustic excitation of the vestibular system pleasurable is not yet clear. From: http://www.nature.com/news/2000/000107/full/news000113-2.html story on : McAngusTodd, N.P. Cody, F.W. Vestibular responses to loud dance music: A physiological basis of the rock and roll threshold? JASA 107, 496 - 500 2000. Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jon burton Sent: 23 April 2015 05:24 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. Increasing European legislation is pushing concert levels to a maximum of 100dBA over a 10-15min LEQ. In doors in France the norm is 103 dBA over 10 mins. Switzerland has a generous 100dBA over 60 minutes. At open air festivals the level can be as low as 95dBA or 10 minutes. The days of unrestrained rock concerts are pretty much over. At the big Rock festivals such as Download and Sonisphere the norm in 98dBA 15 mins. Cheating the levels is very hard and requires a different attitude to mixing which is what I am researching. I am very interested to hear that other engineers such as Steve Boardman are adopting the sub route. I am interested in any of the positives of the route in particular mechanosensation, the feeling that sound is loud associated with the sensation of air pressure on the skin, in the chest cavity etc. Trying to reintroduce the immersive quality of a loud concert with out the harmful sound pressure at the frequencies that are most often associated with hearing damage. Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 22:48, Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net wrote: On 04/22/2015 10:50 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 08:20:36PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. The whole idea of measuring 100dB-ish levels with the A filter is somehow ... (trying to be gentle) strange... yeah, but if you measure db(C) or unweighted and mix accordingly, you _will_ get beaten up by the skull tattoos and leather jackets crowd. so there are health hazards to correct measuring, too. and they are occupational rather than recreational... /me uses ear protection :) -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150423/04dd09b3/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent to you in error, please select unsubscribe. Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Thanks for the link Peter, very interesting. I myself, like Dave have always been unconvinced about our ability to locate sub bass in a free field. I have heard many outdoor sound systems testing their rigs and generally managed to locate them at quite a distance. Endless days of youth trying to find the right party! I also have two subs in my room and can tell whether one is louder than the other. This could also be harmonic distortion, vibration or room nodes. Wouldn't room node excitation be different for each sub location, and isn't this one of the reasons more subs make room response more even? As far as feeling more emersion with extra bass, I myself do. As sub can be felt more than heard, it gives the feeling of being attached to the scene. One is in direct contact to the source, that evokes a feeling of a resonant response and feedback. More bass also evokes a 'warm' adjective in listeners, and as long as the scene isn't muddied to much, this is a plus. All the best Steve On 23 Apr 2015 11:25, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: Tuning and sensitivity of the human vestibular system to low-frequency vibration. Neil P McAngus Todd, Sally M Rosengren James G Colebatch ...These results extend our knowledge of vibration-sensitivity of vestibular afferents but also are remarkable as they indicate that the seismic sensitivity of the human vestibular system exceeds that of the cochlea for low-frequencies. Tuning and sensitivity of the human vestibular system to low-frequency vibration. - ResearchGate. Available from: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/23174127_Tuning_and_sensitivity_of_the_human_vestibular_system_to_low-frequency_vibration and: Todd and Cody: In the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America1, Neil McAngus Todd and Frederick Cody of the University of Manchester suggest that addiction to ultra-loud music results from the fact that it quite literally moves its listeners But in contrast to industrial noise, Todd and Cody point out, much of the signal of loud rock and dance music is at low frequencies-in the bass. They wondered whether loud, low frequencies might be doing something quite different to the ear than normal sound But exactly why some people find acoustic excitation of the vestibular system pleasurable is not yet clear. From: http://www.nature.com/news/2000/000107/full/news000113-2.html story on : McAngusTodd, N.P. Cody, F.W. Vestibular responses to loud dance music: A physiological basis of the rock and roll threshold? JASA 107, 496 - 500 2000. Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jon burton Sent: 23 April 2015 05:24 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. Increasing European legislation is pushing concert levels to a maximum of 100dBA over a 10-15min LEQ. In doors in France the norm is 103 dBA over 10 mins. Switzerland has a generous 100dBA over 60 minutes. At open air festivals the level can be as low as 95dBA or 10 minutes. The days of unrestrained rock concerts are pretty much over. At the big Rock festivals such as Download and Sonisphere the norm in 98dBA 15 mins. Cheating the levels is very hard and requires a different attitude to mixing which is what I am researching. I am very interested to hear that other engineers such as Steve Boardman are adopting the sub route. I am interested in any of the positives of the route in particular mechanosensation, the feeling that sound is loud associated with the sensation of air pressure on the skin, in the chest cavity etc. Trying to reintroduce the immersive quality of a loud concert with out the harmful sound pressure at the frequencies that are most often associated with hearing damage. Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 22:48, Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net wrote: On 04/22/2015 10:50 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 08:20:36PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. The whole idea of measuring 100dB-ish levels with the A filter is somehow ... (trying to be gentle) strange... yeah, but if you measure db(C) or unweighted and mix accordingly, you _will_ get beaten up by the skull tattoos and leather jackets crowd. so there are health hazards to correct measuring, too. and they are occupational rather than recreational... /me uses ear protection :) -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für
[Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Hi I am new to the group but hoping someone may be able to help. I am looking at the positive effects of low frequencies in music, predominantly below 50Hz. This involves aural as well as mechanosensations. I am interested in seeing if reinforcing the low frequency content below 50Hz can help produce a more immersive listening experience at lower overall sound pressure levels (particularly when measured using the A weighting scale). Trouser flapping bass! I am struggling to find papers on the subject. Any suggestions are welcome! Regards Jon. Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/60c7fba0/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
On 04/22/2015 06:49 PM, jon burton wrote: Hi I am new to the group but hoping someone may be able to help. I am looking at the positive effects of low frequencies in music, predominantly below 50Hz. This involves aural as well as mechanosensations. I am interested in seeing if reinforcing the low frequency content below 50Hz can help produce a more immersive listening experience at lower overall sound pressure levels (particularly when measured using the A weighting scale). Trouser flapping bass! I am struggling to find papers on the subject. Any suggestions are welcome! Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. For more perceived loudness, mixing in some typical loudspeaker-like artificial distortion has prevented me from getting beaten up at a 95 at the mixer open air metal concert. Don't ask me who came up with that rule, for that kind of music. But I've heard medical research hint at low frequency exposure having a very damaging effect across the entire hearing spectrum, which means that we are mixing around the rules but are actually endangering our audiences. Be sure to check the literature for this problem, to get a balanced view. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
I'd be interested in any references indicating deleterious effects on hearing of high amplitudes at LF, if anyone comes across any cheers ppl Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier [netti...@stackingdwarves.net] Sent: 22 April 2015 19:20 To: sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. On 04/22/2015 06:49 PM, jon burton wrote: Hi I am new to the group but hoping someone may be able to help. I am looking at the positive effects of low frequencies in music, predominantly below 50Hz. This involves aural as well as mechanosensations. I am interested in seeing if reinforcing the low frequency content below 50Hz can help produce a more immersive listening experience at lower overall sound pressure levels (particularly when measured using the A weighting scale). Trouser flapping bass! I am struggling to find papers on the subject. Any suggestions are welcome! Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. For more perceived loudness, mixing in some typical loudspeaker-like artificial distortion has prevented me from getting beaten up at a 95 at the mixer open air metal concert. Don't ask me who came up with that rule, for that kind of music. But I've heard medical research hint at low frequency exposure having a very damaging effect across the entire hearing spectrum, which means that we are mixing around the rules but are actually endangering our audiences. Be sure to check the literature for this problem, to get a balanced view. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent to you in error, please select unsubscribe. Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
There is a wealth of information regarding the negative effects of Low frequency noise but most of it relates either to vibration issues or sleep related problems. The low frequencies produced in concerts have had very little specific health related research. I recently had a long conversation with one of the major custom earplug manufacturers who was of the opinion that the low frequency levels were of little concern at rock and pop concerts and that is was the A weighted band that we should be concerned with. As I am looking at ways of reducing the A weighted levels by increasing energy in the sub 50Hz region I am looking for research done that may relate to this small but interesting area. I have over the past ten years been using sub to help produce a more immersive experience at low levels. I was wondering if any of the group had tried anything similar. I know there has been research done on gaming chairs using vibration but has anyone done work with sound waves? Thanks Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 20:20, Jonathan Burton jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: On Wednesday, April 22, 2015, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: I'd be interested in any references indicating deleterious effects on hearing of high amplitudes at LF, if anyone comes across any cheers ppl Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu javascript:;] On Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier [netti...@stackingdwarves.net javascript:;] Sent: 22 April 2015 19:20 To: sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. On 04/22/2015 06:49 PM, jon burton wrote: Hi I am new to the group but hoping someone may be able to help. I am looking at the positive effects of low frequencies in music, predominantly below 50Hz. This involves aural as well as mechanosensations. I am interested in seeing if reinforcing the low frequency content below 50Hz can help produce a more immersive listening experience at lower overall sound pressure levels (particularly when measured using the A weighting scale). Trouser flapping bass! I am struggling to find papers on the subject. Any suggestions are welcome! Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. For more perceived loudness, mixing in some typical loudspeaker-like artificial distortion has prevented me from getting beaten up at a 95 at the mixer open air metal concert. Don't ask me who came up with that rule, for that kind of music. But I've heard medical research hint at low frequency exposure having a very damaging effect across the entire hearing spectrum, which means that we are mixing around the rules but are actually endangering our audiences. Be sure to check the literature for this problem, to get a balanced view. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net http://stackingdwarves.net/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent to you in error, please select unsubscribe. Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk javascript:; For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk javascript:; All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/2d4ee38f/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Increasing European legislation is pushing concert levels to a maximum of 100dBA over a 10-15min LEQ. In doors in France the norm is 103 dBA over 10 mins. Switzerland has a generous 100dBA over 60 minutes. At open air festivals the level can be as low as 95dBA or 10 minutes. The days of unrestrained rock concerts are pretty much over. At the big Rock festivals such as Download and Sonisphere the norm in 98dBA 15 mins. Cheating the levels is very hard and requires a different attitude to mixing which is what I am researching. I am very interested to hear that other engineers such as Steve Boardman are adopting the sub route. I am interested in any of the positives of the route in particular mechanosensation, the feeling that sound is loud associated with the sensation of air pressure on the skin, in the chest cavity etc. Trying to reintroduce the immersive quality of a loud concert with out the harmful sound pressure at the frequencies that are most often associated with hearing damage. Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 22:48, Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net wrote: On 04/22/2015 10:50 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 08:20:36PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. The whole idea of measuring 100dB-ish levels with the A filter is somehow ... (trying to be gentle) strange... yeah, but if you measure db(C) or unweighted and mix accordingly, you _will_ get beaten up by the skull tattoos and leather jackets crowd. so there are health hazards to correct measuring, too. and they are occupational rather than recreational... /me uses ear protection :) -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150423/04dd09b3/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
On 04/22/2015 10:50 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 08:20:36PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. The whole idea of measuring 100dB-ish levels with the A filter is somehow ... (trying to be gentle) strange... yeah, but if you measure db(C) or unweighted and mix accordingly, you _will_ get beaten up by the skull tattoos and leather jackets crowd. so there are health hazards to correct measuring, too. and they are occupational rather than recreational... /me uses ear protection :) -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Not sure I would consider it a negative, as it does increase my listening pleasure! Hopefully the audiences too :-) Steve -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/ec4cc939/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
On Wednesday, April 22, 2015, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: I'd be interested in any references indicating deleterious effects on hearing of high amplitudes at LF, if anyone comes across any cheers ppl Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu javascript:;] On Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier [netti...@stackingdwarves.net javascript:;] Sent: 22 April 2015 19:20 To: sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. On 04/22/2015 06:49 PM, jon burton wrote: Hi I am new to the group but hoping someone may be able to help. I am looking at the positive effects of low frequencies in music, predominantly below 50Hz. This involves aural as well as mechanosensations. I am interested in seeing if reinforcing the low frequency content below 50Hz can help produce a more immersive listening experience at lower overall sound pressure levels (particularly when measured using the A weighting scale). Trouser flapping bass! I am struggling to find papers on the subject. Any suggestions are welcome! Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. For more perceived loudness, mixing in some typical loudspeaker-like artificial distortion has prevented me from getting beaten up at a 95 at the mixer open air metal concert. Don't ask me who came up with that rule, for that kind of music. But I've heard medical research hint at low frequency exposure having a very damaging effect across the entire hearing spectrum, which means that we are mixing around the rules but are actually endangering our audiences. Be sure to check the literature for this problem, to get a balanced view. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent to you in error, please select unsubscribe. Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk javascript:; For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk javascript:; All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/ada23822/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Jon - a stitch in time - always be on the lookout for the negatives! the prevailing common knowledge is that LF is far less damaging at the sensorineural level - but there must be some definitive investigation of this, and it's vital to find it - good luck! Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jon burton [jgb...@york.ac.uk] Sent: 22 April 2015 21:25 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. Thats interesting thanks Steve. I am looking for positives rather than negatives! Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 21:21, Steven Boardman boardroomout...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jon I add more sub (from main mix) into the lfe channel for broadcast in Dolby cinemas. For the same reasons. It doesn't register so much on A weighted or Dolby leq (m) meters. This means one can use more headroom of the system and push the dynamics and overall spl in the room. I know a few engineers that do this for broadcast in cinemas. Not sure of any research of the damaging effects though. Best Steve On 22 Apr 2015 20:53, jon burton jgb...@york.ac.uk mailto:jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: There is a wealth of information regarding the negative effects of Low frequency noise but most of it relates either to vibration issues or sleep related problems. The low frequencies produced in concerts have had very little specific health related research. I recently had a long conversation with one of the major custom earplug manufacturers who was of the opinion that the low frequency levels were of little concern at rock and pop concerts and that is was the A weighted band that we should be concerned with. As I am looking at ways of reducing the A weighted levels by increasing energy in the sub 50Hz region I am looking for research done that may relate to this small but interesting area. I have over the past ten years been using sub to help produce a more immersive experience at low levels. I was wondering if any of the group had tried anything similar. I know there has been research done on gaming chairs using vibration but has anyone done work with sound waves? Thanks Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 20:20, Jonathan Burton jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: On Wednesday, April 22, 2015, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: I'd be interested in any references indicating deleterious effects on hearing of high amplitudes at LF, if anyone comes across any cheers ppl Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu javascript:;] On Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier [netti...@stackingdwarves.net mailto:netti...@stackingdwarves.net javascript:;] Sent: 22 April 2015 19:20 To: sursound@music.vt.edu mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. On 04/22/2015 06:49 PM, jon burton wrote: Hi I am new to the group but hoping someone may be able to help. I am looking at the positive effects of low frequencies in music, predominantly below 50Hz. This involves aural as well as mechanosensations. I am interested in seeing if reinforcing the low frequency content below 50Hz can help produce a more immersive listening experience at lower overall sound pressure levels (particularly when measured using the A weighting scale). Trouser flapping bass! I am struggling to find papers on the subject. Any suggestions are welcome! Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. For more perceived loudness, mixing in some typical loudspeaker-like artificial distortion has prevented me from getting beaten up at a 95 at the mixer open air metal concert. Don't ask me who came up with that rule, for that kind of music. But I've heard medical research hint at low frequency exposure having a very damaging effect across the entire hearing spectrum, which means that we are mixing around the rules but are actually endangering our audiences. Be sure to check the literature for this problem, to get a balanced view. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net http://stackingdwarves.net/ http://stackingdwarves.net
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
Hi Jon I add more sub (from main mix) into the lfe channel for broadcast in Dolby cinemas. For the same reasons. It doesn't register so much on A weighted or Dolby leq (m) meters. This means one can use more headroom of the system and push the dynamics and overall spl in the room. I know a few engineers that do this for broadcast in cinemas. Not sure of any research of the damaging effects though. Best Steve On 22 Apr 2015 20:53, jon burton jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: There is a wealth of information regarding the negative effects of Low frequency noise but most of it relates either to vibration issues or sleep related problems. The low frequencies produced in concerts have had very little specific health related research. I recently had a long conversation with one of the major custom earplug manufacturers who was of the opinion that the low frequency levels were of little concern at rock and pop concerts and that is was the A weighted band that we should be concerned with. As I am looking at ways of reducing the A weighted levels by increasing energy in the sub 50Hz region I am looking for research done that may relate to this small but interesting area. I have over the past ten years been using sub to help produce a more immersive experience at low levels. I was wondering if any of the group had tried anything similar. I know there has been research done on gaming chairs using vibration but has anyone done work with sound waves? Thanks Jon Burton Research Student MSc University of York. jgb...@york.ac.uk On 22 Apr 2015, at 20:20, Jonathan Burton jgb...@york.ac.uk wrote: On Wednesday, April 22, 2015, Peter Lennox p.len...@derby.ac.uk mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk wrote: I'd be interested in any references indicating deleterious effects on hearing of high amplitudes at LF, if anyone comes across any cheers ppl Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu javascript:;] On Behalf Of Jörn Nettingsmeier [netti...@stackingdwarves.net javascript:;] Sent: 22 April 2015 19:20 To: sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; Subject: Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass. On 04/22/2015 06:49 PM, jon burton wrote: Hi I am new to the group but hoping someone may be able to help. I am looking at the positive effects of low frequencies in music, predominantly below 50Hz. This involves aural as well as mechanosensations. I am interested in seeing if reinforcing the low frequency content below 50Hz can help produce a more immersive listening experience at lower overall sound pressure levels (particularly when measured using the A weighting scale). Trouser flapping bass! I am struggling to find papers on the subject. Any suggestions are welcome! Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. For more perceived loudness, mixing in some typical loudspeaker-like artificial distortion has prevented me from getting beaten up at a 95 at the mixer open air metal concert. Don't ask me who came up with that rule, for that kind of music. But I've heard medical research hint at low frequency exposure having a very damaging effect across the entire hearing spectrum, which means that we are mixing around the rules but are actually endangering our audiences. Be sure to check the literature for this problem, to get a balanced view. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net http://stackingdwarves.net/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent to you in error, please select unsubscribe. Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk javascript:; For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk javascript:; All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu javascript:; https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound Sub bass.
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 08:20:36PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: Well, it's not a secret that most live sound engineers, when faced with a 99dB(A) rule, will mix into the A curve, i.e. crank up the bass a lot. So there is plenty anecdotal evidence for more bass resulting in less weighted sound pressure. The whole idea of measuring 100dB-ish levels with the A filter is somehow ... (trying to be gentle) strange... Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
