Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki (Justin Bennett)
Greetings, Some of the first binaural recordings I made were with the Core Sound mics attached to my glasses frame (mics very close to conchas, but not in the ears). I also made recordings of traffic sounds using the same mics and with a KEMAR--the mics, however, were in the KEMAR which then added a resonant peak. A nice plus about the Core Sound mics (and this isn't meant to advertise anything) is that they fit nicely in KEMAR's 1/4-inch mic clamps (BK) as well as acoustical calibrators designed to accommodate 1/4-inch mics. In fact, I continue to use the mics in my own acoustical test fixture that has two ears on one side and one ear on opposite side. Impressions of my ears were made to create/mold the ears and canal used on the test fixture. The fixture includes a strain gauge so that headband force can be measured. Purpose of three-eared fixture: To test the efficacy of hearing protection devices to blast noises. I can directly compare an occluded and open ear with same explosive noise. Anyway... placing the Core Sound (or similar) mics on a person gives rise to thoughts of a full-body transfer function and unconscious head movements. When listening to recordings made with mics attached to my glasses frames, the sense of sounds below is quite remarkable. This includes water splashing as vehicles passed by, my own footsteps, and a ball bouncing. None if these sounds are as real (place-wise) with recordings made via KEMAR or with a second generic dummy head. The full-body recordings may not work for all, and I don't know how they sound when played through speakers. But I will certainly state that they are amazingly real sounding recordings. Of course, one bias may be that I had a visual of the auditory scene, and it was my own minute head movements that may have contributed to the place-realism. Always fun to experiment... and learn from one's own experiences. Best, Eric C. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130401/3c68bea9/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki
Stefan Schreiber st...@mail.telepac.pt wrote: So: Why are we actually not doing some Kunstkopf recordings with mics just outside the ear channels? (I believe nobody does this.) This is how we recommend recording binaurally with our binaural microphones. It works very well, even if you use a real head and not a Kunstkopf. Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com) Core Sound LLC www.core-sound.com Home of TetraMic ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki
On Mar 31, 2013, at 6:00 PM, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote: Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:18:56 -0400 (EDT) From: len moskowitz lenmoskow...@optonline.net So: Why are we actually not doing some Kunstkopf recordings with mics just outside the ear channels? (I believe nobody does this.) This is how we recommend recording binaurally with our binaural microphones. It works very well, even if you use a real head and not a Kunstkopf. Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com) Core Sound LLC www.core-sound.com Home of TetraMic I second this too. I and a few colleagues have worked for ages with DPA 4060 omni's and also Soundman mics positioned in the (living) pinnae but outside the ear canals. We make soundwalks - headphone-based (artistic) audio tours and have a lot of feedback from audience. I would say maybe only 5% of the audience doesn't appreciate the binaural effect. you can check out www.soundtrackcity.nl which distributes / organises sound walks in the Netherlands I have a fragment of a piece at http://soundscaper.com/andere/docs/beirut.htm recorded with DPA's. bit of a complex example, walking around an apartment in noisy Beirut with a radio in my hand. best, Justin Justin Bennett jus...@justinbennett.nl www.justinbennett.nl -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130331/9cea7d3b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki
Hello Guilherme, I have some insight regarding your question re KEMAR and the Neumann acoustical test fixtures/heads. Briefly, KEMAR was designed with hearing science in mind. The torso was designed to approximate average human size (I think we have, on average, grown since the introduction of KEMAR). Additionally, the material from which KEMAR is fabricated has an absorption coefficient to match that of humans (clothed or not clothed??--will have to refer to Knowles Electronics for this info). KEMAR is generally equipped with two interchangeable ear sizes: Large and small. If you look at impulse responses obtained with a KEMAR (e.g., the widely used IRs that came from a MIT lab study by Gardner et al), you'll probably see in the info section which of the two ears was used. Internal to KEMAR, their are microphone clamps for 1/4- or 1/2-inch mics (two different clamps for each mic size). A pig-tail adapter allows two Bruel Kjaer mics (L + R) to fit within KEMAR's limited head space (getting into the mind of KEMAR is a tight fit?). When making a recording using internal mics (not the same as mics proximal to the ears conchas), the resonant peak created by KEMAR's ear canals will have to be considered. The recordings with peaks work well with deep-seated earphones, such as EAR phones, that otherwise destroy the ear's natural canal resonance. Note: Earphones worn OVER the ears modify the natural resonance, but don't destroy it. One could argue that the (approximate) 6cc volume of circumaural headphones over the ears' 2cc volume will certainly change things a bit. However, the active drivers of headphones may result in a larger equivalent earcup volume that imposes less of a change than one might predict. (Analogy here: The BK acoustical calibrator has a large equivalent volume despite a small physical volume--this large virtual volume minimizes error caused by mic placement in the calibrator.) Just be aware that mic placement, either in KEMAR or proximal to concha, will affect recordings at the very important mid frequencies. Another thing about KEMAR is that it is designed to accomodate a Zwislocki coupler. Maybe it's more accurate to state that the Zwislocki couple was designed to fit inside of KEMAR. Anyway, the Zwislocki coupler mimics middle ear function. Briefly, it is mathematically equivalent in compliance, mass, etc. of the middle ear (tympanic membrane, ossicles, ligaments, etc.). If you wish to learn more about KEMAR recordings, I recommend a search for articles authored by Zwislocki, Mead Killion (of Etymotic Research), and others. One article by Killion is titled Zwislocki was Right. A Google search for Jozef Zwislocki will reveal some very interesting information regarding human hearing. Now for the Neumann head: I believe this was designed primarily for high-fidelity, binaural recordings. I have listened to recordings made with the Neumann head (and IRs obtained via the Neumann head), but can't state whether these are significantly different from KEMAR recordings. Like many things, one has to consider the overall system: Recording and playback. I've heard KEMAR recordings that suck, and others that were fabulous. Why the difference between recordings? Not sure, as I didn't have all the details. Maybe getting recordings from the same venue and source would help, but I don't know of any direct A-B material for comparison. I hope this info helps some. As usual, I'm writing off the cuff without any reference material, so please pardon any inaccuracies. At least the people mentioned above (Killion, Zwislocki) will reveal accurate and detailed info. Best regards, Eric C. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130329/6136db93/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki
I'll add that the Neumann KU81 and KU100 dummy heads (Kunstkopf) are designed to sound good over loudspeakers as well. There's a paper by Stephen Peus about this that you can download from Neumann at http://www.neumann.com/?lang=enid=current_microphonescid=ku100_publications Look for Stephan Peus, 1985: Natural Listening with a Dummy Head, English, 6 pages Aaron Heller (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA UA -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130329/f0622412/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki
Eric Carmichel wrote: When making a recording using internal mics (not the same as mics proximal to the ears conchas), the resonant peak created by KEMAR's ear canals will have to be considered. So: Why are we actually not doing some Kunstkopf recordings with mics just outside the ear channels? (I believe nobody does this.) Head-shapes and torsos should be far more similar than ear pinnae. If so, you would minimize the problem of very different HRTFs between persons. Best, Stefan Now for the Neumann head: I believe this was designed primarily for high-fidelity, binaural recordings. I don't see any different aim than in the KEMAR case. (Would there be any difference to do some real/correct or high-fidelity binaural recording? Don't think so, but I am ready to learn... :-) ) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki
i have. I have also done a few recordings using the mics mounted on my shoulder just where it joins the neck to create a kind of head shadow, without forcing me to walk with my head held unnaturally rigid. umashankar i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 04:13:04 + From: st...@mail.telepac.pt To: e...@elcaudio.com; sursound@music.vt.edu Subject: Re: [Sursound] KEMAR, Neumann, Zwislocki Eric Carmichel wrote: When making a recording using internal mics (not the same as mics proximal to the ears conchas), the resonant peak created by KEMAR's ear canals will have to be considered. So: Why are we actually not doing some Kunstkopf recordings with mics just outside the ear channels? (I believe nobody does this.) Head-shapes and torsos should be far more similar than ear pinnae. If so, you would minimize the problem of very different HRTFs between persons. Best, Stefan Now for the Neumann head: I believe this was designed primarily for high-fidelity, binaural recordings. I don't see any different aim than in the KEMAR case. (Would there be any difference to do some real/correct or high-fidelity binaural recording? Don't think so, but I am ready to learn... :-) ) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130330/2bcdc32a/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
