Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[David Pickett]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2016/03/08/from-the-beatles-to-the-future-abbey-road-opens-first-music-tech-incubator-in-europe/3/#725b77bb10e2

says that Abbey Rd are taking them on in their "First Music Tech Incubator":

Ossic 
– They’ve already raised about a million dollars 
on Kickstarter for their 3D headphones. Our 
involvement with them will be less around the 
business because they’re very experienced in 
shipping consumer products – they’re all from 
Logitech. It’ll be more about how to best create 
and deliver the 3D content. We’ll provide 
marketing support and they’ll run events here.


David

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Stefan Schreiber]

len moskowitz wrote:

OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that 
do automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support 
ambisonics (They have a TetraMic system.)



They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:


  
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t 




They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over 
$340,000 in less than three.



Congratulations and surely a highly interesting product, but to keep a 
wide perspective:


- I would imagine that  few of the "test persons" (in the promotional 
videos) had former experience to listen to surround headphones using 
HRTFs AND HT (head-tracking)


- Such products already exist in the market. It is revealing that none 
of the supposed "tech leaders" has even mentioned this!


The most comparable product would be this one:

http://www.3dsoundlabs.com/

- It is (nearly) consense among experts (and in our forum) that HT is 
more important than personalisation - which can be added on top.


- I would expect that 3D Sound Labs (and VR/AR companies in general) 
will look into personalisation/calibration issues very soonly, if they 
are not already doing this.


The OSSIC X remains a cool and intriguing concept. The aimed price also 
seems to be ok. (As a game or VR "accessoire", the price seems a bit 
high though. Would you < as a consumer > buy VR "glasses" AND this? So 
maybe the main market will be < music listening >?)



Best regards,

Stefan

P.S.: In the end, you would have to compare OSSIC X against available 
"normal" HT headphones (using generic HRTFs)


How big is the "gain" of personalisation?

Such tests have to be done, even by institutions such as EBU, IRT, BBC, 
RAI etc. etc. I should add the BiLI initiative. (Several people related 
to this are lurking or posting on sursound.;-) )




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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[len moskowitz]

The OSSIC Kickstarter campaign has now raised more than eight times 
their fundraising goal. They're at over $811,000 with more than 50 days 
left to go.



One video on the Kickstarter page gives some hints how they're deriving 
HRTF. It implies that they measure the inter-ear distance, plus two 
measures of ear size for each ear.



https://youtu.be/ko-VeQ7Aflg




Len Moskowitz
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Peter Lennox]

you can move head in relation to shoulders - tilt, rotate and so on - and 
shoulders in relation to head (eg lift one shoulder) - so although these can 
all be mapped to a cartesian frame of reference, that might not be the best way 
to mathematically represent it - for instance, you might curve the spine, then 
normalise the axis running thru' the ears with respect to the horizon, 
resulting in an effective shoulder tilt with respect to the head... and so on) 
So, think of the number of combinations of head-shoulder-horizon relationships, 
then ask how these can be experimentally simplified - and in doing so, you have 
to justify the simplifications on perceptual grounds, i.e. what computational 
economies are pragmatically justifiable...
Dr. Peter Lennox
Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts
University of Derby

Tel: 01332 593155

From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Stefan Schreiber 
[st...@mail.telepac.pt]
Sent: 27 February 2016 18:57
To: umashankar manthravadi ç; Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

umashankar manthravadi wrote:

> I was trying to say something else. The head moves independently of
> shoulder position. Pinnae are rigidly linked to the head; the
> shoulders are not. That is what made me think the two should be
> treated separately.
>
>
>
> umashankar
>

Sorry for coming back "late":

The head < can > move independently of shoulder position, if the
reference is the "HRTF sphere" - or simply say "outside world".   :-)
 (There are two ways to change the position of yours ears: Your whole
body moves, you move just your head vs. a fixed torso - and obviously
you can have all combinations.)

The visual case (eye movement) is very similar. There are two basic ways
to move your eyes, i.e. to change your view:

http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-smis-gear-vr-eye-tracking-accurate-fast-lightweight/

In both cases (eye, ear movements) you have two degrees of freedom.

Best,

St.



>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> From: Stefan Schreiber <mailto:st...@mail.telepac.pt>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 8:07 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>
>
>
> Stefan Schreiber wrote:
>
> > Augustine Leudar wrote:
> >
> >> do you have a reference/source for that - that shoulder head
> reflections
> >> dont matter in anechoice etc etc - I would be interested to read it...
> >>
> >>
> > They just arrive later than direct sound. And if the HRTF length is
> > too short and so you don't have the sample length to capture (any)
> > reflections...
> >
> > Clear? Or did < I > miss something?
> >
> > St.
>
>
> Ok, I stand corrected:
>
> http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~kdm/hrtfdoc/section3_4.html#SECTION0004000
> <http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ekdm/hrtfdoc/section3_4.html#SECTION0004000>
>
> > In order to reduce the size of the data set without eliminating
> > anything of potential interest, we decided to discard the first 200
> > samples of each impulse response and save the next 512 samples. Each
> > HRTF response is thus 512 samples long. < Most researchers will no
> > doubt truncate this data further. >
>
>
> > 44.1 kHz sampling rate
>
> As the speed of sound is about 340m/s, you will capture shoulder
> reflections even with just 128 samples.
>
>
> (If your ear-shoulder distance is about 20cm, the shoulder reflections
> will arrive about 40cm delayed compared to direct sound, i.e. about 1,2
> ms later.
>
> 128/44.100 = 2,9 ms.)
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Stefan Schreiber]

umashankar manthravadi wrote:

I was trying to say something else. The head moves independently of 
shoulder position. Pinnae are rigidly linked to the head; the 
shoulders are not. That is what made me think the two should be 
treated separately.


 


umashankar



Sorry for coming back "late":

The head < can > move independently of shoulder position, if the 
reference is the "HRTF sphere" - or simply say "outside world".   :-)
(There are two ways to change the position of yours ears: Your whole 
body moves, you move just your head vs. a fixed torso - and obviously 
you can have all combinations.)


The visual case (eye movement) is very similar. There are two basic ways 
to move your eyes, i.e. to change your view:


http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-smis-gear-vr-eye-tracking-accurate-fast-lightweight/

In both cases (eye, ear movements) you have two degrees of freedom.

Best,

St.



 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
Windows 10


 


From: Stefan Schreiber <mailto:st...@mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 8:07 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group <mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

 


Stefan Schreiber wrote:

> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
>> do you have a reference/source for that - that shoulder head 
reflections

>> dont matter in anechoice etc etc - I would be interested to read it...
>> 
>>

> They just arrive later than direct sound. And if the HRTF length is
> too short and so you don't have the sample length to capture (any)
> reflections...
>
> Clear? Or did < I > miss something?
>
> St.


Ok, I stand corrected:

http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~kdm/hrtfdoc/section3_4.html#SECTION0004000 
<http://alumni.media.mit.edu/%7Ekdm/hrtfdoc/section3_4.html#SECTION0004000>


> In order to reduce the size of the data set without eliminating
> anything of potential interest, we decided to discard the first 200
> samples of each impulse response and save the next 512 samples. Each
> HRTF response is thus 512 samples long. < Most researchers will no
> doubt truncate this data further. >


> 44.1 kHz sampling rate

As the speed of sound is about 340m/s, you will capture shoulder
reflections even with just 128 samples.


(If your ear-shoulder distance is about 20cm, the shoulder reflections
will arrive about 40cm delayed compared to direct sound, i.e. about 1,2
ms later.

128/44.100 = 2,9 ms.)

Best,

Stefan




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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

I was trying to say something else. The head moves independently of shoulder 
position. Pinnae are rigidly linked to the head; the shoulders are not. That is 
what made me think the two should be treated separately.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Stefan Schreiber<mailto:st...@mail.telepac.pt>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 8:07 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Stefan Schreiber wrote:

> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
>> do you have a reference/source for that - that shoulder head reflections
>> dont matter in anechoice etc etc - I would be interested to read it...
>>
>>
> They just arrive later than direct sound. And if the HRTF length is
> too short and so you don't have the sample length to capture (any)
> reflections...
>
> Clear? Or did < I > miss something?
>
> St.


Ok, I stand corrected:

http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~kdm/hrtfdoc/section3_4.html#SECTION0004000

> In order to reduce the size of the data set without eliminating
> anything of potential interest, we decided to discard the first 200
> samples of each impulse response and save the next 512 samples. Each
> HRTF response is thus 512 samples long. < Most researchers will no
> doubt truncate this data further. >


> 44.1 kHz sampling rate

As the speed of sound is about 340m/s, you will capture shoulder
reflections even with just 128 samples.


(If your ear-shoulder distance is about 20cm, the shoulder reflections
will arrive about 40cm delayed compared to direct sound, i.e. about 1,2
ms later.

128/44.100 = 2,9 ms.)

Best,

Stefan




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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Stefan Schreiber]

Stefan Schreiber wrote:


Augustine Leudar wrote:


do you have a reference/source for that - that shoulder head reflections
dont matter in anechoice etc etc - I would be interested to read it...
 

They just arrive later than direct sound. And if the HRTF length is 
too short and so you don't have the sample length to capture (any) 
reflections...


Clear? Or did < I > miss something?

St.



Ok, I stand corrected:

http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~kdm/hrtfdoc/section3_4.html#SECTION0004000

In order to reduce the size of the data set without eliminating 
anything of potential interest, we decided to discard the first 200 
samples of each impulse response and save the next 512 samples. Each 
HRTF response is thus 512 samples long. < Most researchers will no 
doubt truncate this data further. >




44.1 kHz sampling rate


As the speed of sound is about 340m/s, you will capture shoulder 
reflections even with just 128 samples.



(If your ear-shoulder distance is about 20cm, the shoulder reflections 
will arrive about 40cm delayed compared to direct sound, i.e. about 1,2 
ms later.


128/44.100 = 2,9 ms.)

Best,

Stefan




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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Stefan Schreiber]

Augustine Leudar wrote:


do you have a reference/source for that - that shoulder head reflections
dont matter in anechoice etc etc - I would be interested to read it...
 

They just arrive later than direct sound. And if the HRTF length is too 
short and so you don't have the sample length to capture (any) 
reflections...


Clear? Or did < I > miss something?

St.




On 25 February 2016 at 16:51, Stefan Schreiber 
wrote:

 


umashankar manthravadi wrote:

I had been thinking about hrtf and the information available from shoulder
   


and body reflections. They need to be decoupled. ´

Or maybe not?
 


Acousticians speak of "Head-related Transfer Function", whereas most
scientists in other areas use the term "Human Transfer Functions".

A second observation would be that shoulder and body reflections don't
seem to play a role if you measure anechoic HRTFs. (Appear only in "long"
HRTFs.)

Best,

St.





Headtracking should apply only to signal that will be binaural and HRTF
   


processed. The other part of the sound should not have headtracking
applied. I nearly twisted my neck this morning listening to the hiss of the
gas stove and turn my shoulders without turning my head, not enough data.
But just commonsense tells you the brain is probably using the rotating
head information against a quasi static soundfield that includes body
reflections.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallee<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:30 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
Politis Archontis  wrote:



 


On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
   


 wrote:

Yes.

Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
on it…:)

Steve



 


Hi Steve,

what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..

Archontis


   


There's a description in the text of the patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf

How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
(but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
--
Marc



 


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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Augustine Leudar]

do you have a reference/source for that - that shoulder head reflections
dont matter in anechoice etc etc - I would be interested to read it...

On 25 February 2016 at 16:51, Stefan Schreiber 
wrote:

> umashankar manthravadi wrote:
>
> I had been thinking about hrtf and the information available from shoulder
>> and body reflections. They need to be decoupled. ´
>>
>> Or maybe not?
> Acousticians speak of "Head-related Transfer Function", whereas most
> scientists in other areas use the term "Human Transfer Functions".
>
> A second observation would be that shoulder and body reflections don't
> seem to play a role if you measure anechoic HRTFs. (Appear only in "long"
> HRTFs.)
>
> Best,
>
> St.
>
>
>
>
>
> Headtracking should apply only to signal that will be binaural and HRTF
>> processed. The other part of the sound should not have headtracking
>> applied. I nearly twisted my neck this morning listening to the hiss of the
>> gas stove and turn my shoulders without turning my head, not enough data.
>> But just commonsense tells you the brain is probably using the rotating
>> head information against a quasi static soundfield that includes body
>> reflections.
>>
>> umashankar
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Marc Lavallee<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:30 PM
>> To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
>> Politis Archontis  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
>>>> decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
>>>> on it…:)
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Hi Steve,
>>>
>>> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
>>>
>>> Archontis
>>>
>>>
>>
>> There's a description in the text of the patent:
>> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
>> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf
>>
>> How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
>> (but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
>> --
>> Marc
>>
>>
>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Augustine Leudar]

nope

On 25 February 2016 at 16:30, Peter Lennox  wrote:

> It wouldn't be: stick small speaker in the ear canal and measure with a
> bunch of mics, would it?
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts
> University of Derby, UK
> e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Stefan
> Schreiber
> Sent: 25 February 2016 16:28
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>
> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
> >Actually that does make sense - though what it does to the resolution
> >of localisation or whether pinna filtering will work with the drivers
> >so close remains to be seen - exciting if they've got it to work . Im
> >sure I read something about the US military trying this out somewhere.
> >
>
> >There is another
> >crushingly simple and obvious way of calibrating HRTFs though which I'm
> >not sure anyones thought of yet - whenever I say that it always turns
> >out somebody has years ago but anyway
> >
> >
>
> Please tell us about this (secret) smashing but simple way...Can't
> wait to learn about this one!  :-D
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan
>
> >On 24 February 2016 at 12:18, umashankar manthravadi
> >
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to
> >>a cube. The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance
> >>and this would be the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel
> >>head movement (which headtracking does) it is very similar to
> >>listening to a cube of speakers in a room. there are some details of
> >>course. You do not need individual HRTFs. I am not sure what different
> >>head sizes will do. If the foam support compresses (and the distance
> >>to the drivers is fixed) it may not matter.
> >>
> >>umashankar
> >>
> >>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> >>Windows 10
> >>
> >>From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
> >>To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> >>Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
> >>
> >>Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t
> >>need pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
> >>They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your
> >>own pinna effects would function.
> >>
> >>Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar 
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though -
> >>>which
> >>>
> >>>
> >>is
> >>
> >>
> >>>the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it
> >>>wont work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
> >>>
> >>>On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc <
> >>>
> >>>
> >>c.gueze...@3dsoundlabs.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess
> >>>>is that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the
> >>>>user's head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the
> >>>>first would
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>act
> >>
> >>
> >>>>mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>would
> >>
> >>
> >>>>be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm
> >>>>not sure about.
> >>>>
> >>>>Corentin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>-- next part -- An HTML attachment was
> >>scrubbed...
> >>URL: <
> >>https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2016022
> >>4/be696610/attachment.html
> >>
> >>
> >>___
> >>S

Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Augustine Leudar]

Even a hint would cost you thousands Stefan ;)

On 25 February 2016 at 16:28, Stefan Schreiber 
wrote:

> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
> Actually that does make sense - though what it does to the resolution of
>> localisation or whether pinna filtering will work with the drivers so
>> close
>> remains to be seen - exciting if they've got it to work . Im sure I read
>> something about the US military trying this out somewhere.
>>
>
> There is another
>> crushingly simple and obvious way of calibrating HRTFs though which I'm
>> not
>> sure anyones thought of yet - whenever I say that it always turns out
>> somebody has years ago but anyway
>>
>>
>
> Please tell us about this (secret) smashing but simple way...Can't
> wait to learn about this one!  :-D
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan
>
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 12:18, umashankar manthravadi <
>> umasha...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a
>>> cube. The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and
>>> this
>>> would be the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head
>>> movement
>>> (which headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of
>>> speakers in a room. there are some details of course. You do not need
>>> individual HRTFs. I am not sure what different head sizes will do. If the
>>> foam support compresses (and the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may
>>> not matter.
>>>
>>> umashankar
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>>
>>> Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t
>>> need
>>> pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
>>> They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own
>>> pinna effects would function.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which
>>>>
>>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>
>>>> the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
>>>> work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
>>>>
>>>> On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc <
>>>>
>>>>
>>> c.gueze...@3dsoundlabs.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
>>>>> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the
>>>>> user's
>>>>> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> act
>>>
>>>
>>>> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> would
>>>
>>>
>>>> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
>>>>> sure about.
>>>>>
>>>>> Corentin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -- next part --
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>>>
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160224/be696610/attachment.html
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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-- 
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Stefan Schreiber]

umashankar manthravadi wrote:


I had been thinking about hrtf and the information available from shoulder and 
body reflections. They need to be decoupled. ´


Or maybe not?
Acousticians speak of "Head-related Transfer Function", whereas most 
scientists in other areas use the term "Human Transfer Functions".


A second observation would be that shoulder and body reflections don't 
seem to play a role if you measure anechoic HRTFs. (Appear only in 
"long" HRTFs.)


Best,

St.





Headtracking should apply only to signal that will be binaural and HRTF 
processed. The other part of the sound should not have headtracking applied. I 
nearly twisted my neck this morning listening to the hiss of the gas stove and 
turn my shoulders without turning my head, not enough data. But just 
commonsense tells you the brain is probably using the rotating head information 
against a quasi static soundfield that includes body reflections.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallee<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:30 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
Politis Archontis  wrote:

 


On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
 wrote:

Yes.

Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
on it…:)

Steve

 


Hi Steve,

what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..

Archontis
   



There's a description in the text of the patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf

How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
(but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
--
Marc

 


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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Peter Lennox]

It wouldn't be: stick small speaker in the ear canal and measure with a bunch 
of mics, would it?

Dr. Peter Lennox
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts
University of Derby, UK
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk 
t: 01332 593155
https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox 
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox 


-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Stefan 
Schreiber
Sent: 25 February 2016 16:28
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Augustine Leudar wrote:

>Actually that does make sense - though what it does to the resolution 
>of localisation or whether pinna filtering will work with the drivers 
>so close remains to be seen - exciting if they've got it to work . Im 
>sure I read something about the US military trying this out somewhere.
>

>There is another
>crushingly simple and obvious way of calibrating HRTFs though which I'm 
>not sure anyones thought of yet - whenever I say that it always turns 
>out somebody has years ago but anyway
>  
>

Please tell us about this (secret) smashing but simple way...Can't 
wait to learn about this one!  :-D

Best,

Stefan

>On 24 February 2016 at 12:18, umashankar manthravadi 
>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to 
>>a cube. The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance 
>>and this would be the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel 
>>head movement (which headtracking does) it is very similar to 
>>listening to a cube of speakers in a room. there are some details of 
>>course. You do not need individual HRTFs. I am not sure what different 
>>head sizes will do. If the foam support compresses (and the distance 
>>to the drivers is fixed) it may not matter.
>>
>>umashankar
>>
>>Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>>Windows 10
>>
>>From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
>>To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>>Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>
>>Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t 
>>need pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
>>They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your 
>>own pinna effects would function.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar 
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - 
>>>which
>>>  
>>>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it 
>>>wont work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
>>>
>>>On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc <
>>>  
>>>
>>c.gueze...@3dsoundlabs.com>
>>
>>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess 
>>>>is that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the 
>>>>user's head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the 
>>>>first would
>>>>
>>>>
>>act
>>
>>
>>>>mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that
>>>>
>>>>
>>would
>>
>>
>>>>be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm 
>>>>not sure about.
>>>>
>>>>Corentin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>-- next part -- An HTML attachment was 
>>scrubbed...
>>URL: <
>>https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2016022
>>4/be696610/attachment.html
>>
>>
>>___
>>Sursound mailing list
>>Sursound@music.vt.edu
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>>here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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>>scrubbed...
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>>4/b65f7161/attachment.html
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Stefan Schreiber]

Augustine Leudar wrote:


Actually that does make sense - though what it does to the resolution of
localisation or whether pinna filtering will work with the drivers so close
remains to be seen - exciting if they've got it to work . Im sure I read
something about the US military trying this out somewhere. 




There is another
crushingly simple and obvious way of calibrating HRTFs though which I'm not
sure anyones thought of yet - whenever I say that it always turns out
somebody has years ago but anyway
 



Please tell us about this (secret) smashing but simple way...Can't 
wait to learn about this one!  :-D


Best,

Stefan


On 24 February 2016 at 12:18, umashankar manthravadi 
wrote:

 


when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a
cube. The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and this
would be the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head movement
(which headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of
speakers in a room. there are some details of course. You do not need
individual HRTFs. I am not sure what different head sizes will do. If the
foam support compresses (and the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may
not matter.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need
pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own
pinna effects would function.

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

   


Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which
 


is
   


the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...

On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc <
 


c.gueze...@3dsoundlabs.com>
   


wrote:

 


Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would
   


act
   


mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that
   


would
   


be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
sure about.

Corentin

   


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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Stefan Schreiber]

umashankar manthravadi wrote:


when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a cube.


The multiple driver model shown on OSSIC's presentation page
(https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t)

does < not > correspond to a cube layout!

You seem to have an up/front/back/down driver model.

The drivers's are obviously in near-field distance, so a head/torso 
filter would have to be applied be4...





The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and this would be 
the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head movement (which 
headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of speakers in a 
room.


No, because this would require < BRIR > measurements...

there are some details of course. You do not need individual HRTFs. 



It seems to be pretty unclear how OSSIC < combines > HRTFs and a 
multi-driver headphone.


Their personalisation process seems to measure (just) the ear-distance. 
Important but not enough?



Uncomplete information everywhere...

I personally would prefer conventional headphones, HT and properly done 
personalisation. (Products like BRS or Smyth Research's Realiser A8 are 
available for  the professional and audiophile markets. They work very 
well and are not based on multi-driver concepts. Their Polhemnus etc. 
trackers could be replaced with much cheaper motion sensors, by now. 
"Properly done personalisation" is still a trickier problem.)


Best,

Stefan




I am not sure what different head sizes will do. If the foam support compresses 
(and the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may not matter.

umashankar

 




Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need 
pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own pinna 
effects would function.

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

 


Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...

On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
wrote:

   


Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
sure about.

Corentin

 



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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

I had been thinking about hrtf and the information available from shoulder and 
body reflections. They need to be decoupled. Headtracking should apply only to 
signal that will be binaural and HRTF processed. The other part of the sound 
should not have headtracking applied. I nearly twisted my neck this morning 
listening to the hiss of the gas stove and turn my shoulders without turning my 
head, not enough data. But just commonsense tells you the brain is probably 
using the rotating head information against a quasi static soundfield that 
includes body reflections.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallee<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:30 PM
To: sursound@music.vt.edu<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
Politis Archontis  wrote:

> > On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
> > decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
> > on it…:)
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
>
> Archontis

There's a description in the text of the patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf

How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
(but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Marc Lavallee]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:27:36 +
Politis Archontis  wrote:

> > On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Yes. 
> > 
> > Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their
> > decoder, it works very well. Although I think he may have a patent
> > on it…:)
> > 
> > Steve
> >   
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..
>
> Archontis

There's a description in the text of the patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0262586.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150262586.pdf

How multiple drivers can use HRTF tinting is unclear.
(but as most patents, they are difficult to understand).
--
Marc

> ___
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Politis Archontis]

> On 24 Feb 2016, at 16:04, Steven Boardman  wrote:
> 
> Yes. 
> 
> Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their decoder, it 
> works very well. Although I think he may have a patent on it…:)
> 
> Steve
> 

Hi Steve,

what is HRTF tinting? I haven’t heard the name before..

Archontis
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Steven Boardman]

Yes. 

Richard Furse’s Blue Ripple Sound uses HRTF tinting in their decoder, it works 
very well. Although I think he may have a patent on it…:)

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 13:48, Marc Lavallée  wrote:

> 
> If HRTF an applicable concept when using 4 drivers per ear to spatialise
> sound?
> 
> --
> Marc
> 
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:03:13 +0530,
> umashankar manthravadi  wrote:
> 

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Marc Lavallée]

If HRTF an applicable concept when using 4 drivers per ear to spatialise
sound?

--
Marc

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 13:03:13 +0530,
umashankar manthravadi  wrote:

> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds
> an eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to
> a large extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle
> helmet. You will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
> 
> 
> umashankar
> 
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
> 
> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
> 
> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It
> looks like only the diameter of the head is monitored. —
> Marc
> 
> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz
> >  wrote:
> >
> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones
> > that do automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will
> > support ambisonics (They have a TetraMic system.)
> >
> >
> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
> >
> >
> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised
> > over $340,000 in less than three.
> >
> >
> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> > Core Sound LLC
> > www.core-sound.com
> > Home of TetraMic
> 
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Augustine Leudar]

Actually that does make sense - though what it does to the resolution of
localisation or whether pinna filtering will work with the drivers so close
remains to be seen - exciting if they've got it to work . Im sure I read
something about the US military trying this out somewhere. There is another
crushingly simple and obvious way of calibrating HRTFs though which I'm not
sure anyones thought of yet - whenever I say that it always turns out
somebody has years ago but anyway

On 24 February 2016 at 12:18, umashankar manthravadi 
wrote:

> when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a
> cube. The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and this
> would be the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head movement
> (which headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of
> speakers in a room. there are some details of course. You do not need
> individual HRTFs. I am not sure what different head sizes will do. If the
> foam support compresses (and the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may
> not matter.
>
> umashankar
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>
> Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need
> pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
> They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own
> pinna effects would function.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar 
> wrote:
>
> > Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which
> is
> > the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
> > work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
> >
> > On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc <
> c.gueze...@3dsoundlabs.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
> >> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
> >> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would
> act
> >> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that
> would
> >> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
> >> sure about.
> >>
> >> Corentin
> >>
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

when you have four speakers to each ear, you can think of a decode to a cube. 
The only big difference between a cube mounted at a distance and this would be 
the importance of the head shadow. If you can cancel head movement (which 
headtracking does) it is very similar to listening to a cube of speakers in a 
room. there are some details of course. You do not need individual HRTFs. I am 
not sure what different head sizes will do. If the foam support compresses (and 
the distance to the drivers is fixed) it may not matter.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Steven Boardman<mailto:boardroomout...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 5:20 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need 
pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own pinna 
effects would function.

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
> the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
> work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
> wrote:
>
>> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
>> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
>> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
>> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
>> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
>> sure about.
>>
>> Corentin
>>

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Steven Boardman]

Not sure they would. As they are over the ear headphones, one doesn’t need 
pinna HRTF as ones own would function.
They probably made HRTF files for each driver position. That way your own pinna 
effects would function.

Steve



On 24 Feb 2016, at 11:30, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
> the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
> work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...
> 
> On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
> wrote:
> 
>> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
>> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
>> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
>> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
>> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
>> sure about.
>> 
>> Corentin
>> 

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Augustine Leudar]

Theyd still have to somehow measure the pinna dimensions though - which is
the most important part for vertical localisation - without that it wont
work with just shoulder reflections and headwidth...

On 24 February 2016 at 10:33, Corentin Guézénoc 
wrote:

> Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is
> that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's
> head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would act
> mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that would
> be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which I'm not
> sure about.
>
> Corentin
>
>
>
> Le 24/02/2016 11:22, Augustine Leudar a écrit :
>
>> Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
>> reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so
>> Im
>> not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?
>>
>> On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar > >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
>>> want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 
>>>
>>> On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
>>> umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
>>>> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a
>>>> large
>>>> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
>>>> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
>>>> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> umashankar
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>>>
>>>> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
>>>> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
>>>> —
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz >>>> >
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
>>>>>
>>>> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support
>>>> ambisonics
>>>> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
>>>>>
>>>> $340,000 in less than three.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
>>>>> Core Sound LLC
>>>>> www.core-sound.com
>>>>> Home of TetraMic
>>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> Sursound mailing list
>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.augustineleudar.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> *Corentin Guézénoc *
> /R&D Engineer
> 3D Sound Labs /
> Tel: +33 6 82 12 14 60
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Corentin Guézénoc]

Based on what I had gathered from some video some time ago, my guess is 
that they use some kind of HRTF model that takes into account the user's 
head width, combined with the 4-driver system.  I guess the first would 
act mostly on low frequencies and the latter on higher frequencies that 
would be harder to model. However the last part is only a guess which 
I'm not sure about.


Corentin


Le 24/02/2016 11:22, Augustine Leudar a écrit :

Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so Im
not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?

On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:


Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 

On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:


I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
OSSIC is an eight driver system.


umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
—
Marc


On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 

wrote:

OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do

automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
(They have a TetraMic system.)


They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:




https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t


They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over

$340,000 in less than three.


Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic

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--
*Corentin Guézénoc *
/R&D Engineer
3D Sound Labs /
Tel: +33 6 82 12 14 60


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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

It is not so much imitating as creating ILDs and ITDs. Shoulder reflections 
matter dynamically. But they vary from day to day. From the clothes we wear 
etc. I will order four small pairs of headphones today and 3-d print the over 
the ear structures. OSSIC talks about an anechoic rear chamber. I am thinking 
of an open backed structure (which will put your own shoulders into the 
picture!)

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Augustine Leudar<mailto:augustineleu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:52 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so Im
not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?

On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
> want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
> umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
>> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
>> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
>> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
>> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>>
>>
>> umashankar
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>
>> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
>> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
>> —
>> Marc
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
>> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
>> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>> >
>> >
>> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>> >
>> >
>> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
>> $340,000 in less than three.
>> >
>> >
>> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
>> > Core Sound LLC
>> > www.core-sound.com
>> > Home of TetraMic
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Augustine Leudar]

Umashankar - so you'd imitate ILDs and ITDs ? From what Ive read shoulder
reflections play an important role as well as the shape of the head - so Im
not sure if Pinna reflections would be enough ?

On 24 February 2016 at 10:19, Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
> want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 
>
> On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi <
> umasha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
>> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
>> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
>> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
>> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>>
>>
>> umashankar
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>>
>> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
>> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
>> —
>> Marc
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
>> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
>> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>> >
>> >
>> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>> >
>> >
>> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
>> $340,000 in less than three.
>> >
>> >
>> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
>> > Core Sound LLC
>> > www.core-sound.com
>> > Home of TetraMic
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Augustine Leudar]

Yes it would be nice to know how exactly (or at least roughly if you dont
want to give your game away) the headphones take personalised HRTFs 

On 24 February 2016 at 07:33, umashankar manthravadi 
wrote:

> I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an
> eight driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large
> extent. I have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You
> will then only need headtracking for a stable image.
> OSSIC is an eight driver system.
>
>
> umashankar
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins
>
> It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks
> like only the diameter of the head is monitored.
> —
> Marc
>
> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz 
> wrote:
> >
> > OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do
> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics
> (They have a TetraMic system.)
> >
> >
> > They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
> >
> >
> > They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over
> $340,000 in less than three.
> >
> >
> > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> > Core Sound LLC
> > www.core-sound.com
> > Home of TetraMic
>
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[umashankar manthravadi]

I had been thinking, for three or four years now, that if one builds an eight 
driver headphone, it should be possible to eliminate HRTF to a large extent. I 
have been intending to build one into a motorcycle helmet. You will then only 
need headtracking for a stable image.
OSSIC is an eight driver system.


umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée<mailto:m...@hacklava.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:28 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks like 
only the diameter of the head is monitored.
—
Marc

> On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz  
> wrote:
>
> OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do 
> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics 
> (They have a TetraMic system.)
>
>
> They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
>
>
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
>
>
> They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over 
> $340,000 in less than three.
>
>
> Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com
> Home of TetraMic

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Re: [Sursound] OSSIC Kickstarter Campaign Begins

[Marc Lavallée]

It’d be nice to learn more about the auto-calibration feature. It looks like 
only the diameter of the head is monitored.
—
Marc

> On Feb 23, 2016, at 10:48 PM, len moskowitz  
> wrote:
> 
> OSSIC (formerly Sonic VR) has designed prototypes of headphones that do 
> automatic HRTF calculation and headtracking. They will support ambisonics 
> (They have a TetraMic system.)
> 
> 
> They are seeking development and production funding on Kickstarter:
> 
> 
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
> 
> 
> They sought to raise $100,000 in 60 days. They've already raised over 
> $340,000 in less than three.
> 
> 
> Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
> Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com
> Home of TetraMic

___
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