[biofuel] What's the difference
Is there any difference in energy content between, for instance, one liter of sunflower biodiesal and one liter of palm-oil biodiesal? In other words, is there a better performance in km/liter for the better oil? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
Mike, Please dont repeat questions unless you want answers. No seriously was suprised no-one picked up on this with your last attempt and attempted to give you an answer. I suspect Aleks is the right guy. I definitely suspect there would be a correlation between the quality of the oil from one plant to another and the conversion ratio and that this posibly carries over into the biod produced. I suspect that this comes down to the lipid chain length and the efficiency of conversion. At the end of the day I suppose it comes down to the BTUs contained in each individual biod by volume. Afraid thats as far as I can venture and we will have to wait for more knowledgeable minds and those with far more experience to provide the answers. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Mike Brownstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:55 AM Subject: [biofuel] What's the difference Is there any difference in energy content between, for instance, one liter of sunflower biodiesal and one liter of palm-oil biodiesal? In other words, is there a better performance in km/liter for the better oil? Mike Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel commercialization
I understand from a friend who works for Central Soya in Illinois that they have biodiesel production capability but do not offer it for sale. Apparently other sourses also refuse to sell it for road use. What is going on? If we assume that it is commercially viable to produce biodiesel by a myriad of small producers, what is/are the obstacle(s)? Or is it not economically viable except for hobbiests? Does anybody produce a ready made small system to process used cooking oils? Do the states make it easy or impossible to add the requisite taxes for road use? Etc, etc Thanks Gary -- Dr. Gary A. Nelson Zynrgy Group Inc 20708 Deerpath Road Barrington, IL 60010-3787 USA +1.847.304. +1.847.304.1929 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
To all intents and purposes - none Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
Is there any difference in energy content between, for instance, one liter of sunflower biodiesal and one liter of palm-oil biodiesal? In other words, is there a better performance in km/liter for the better oil? . Mike, Technically, the answer is yes. Examine the following: Each oil is going to have a different fatty acid profile makeup - different amounts of multiple types of constituent oils such as lanoleic, linoleic, etc. As each oil has a different makeup of varying components, the post transesterification results will have some differences from oil to oil as well. Oils have differing original heat values and the final biodiesels are subject to similar variations. Your question or implication that some oils may form better biodiesels relative to final energy content is logical and accurate. The $64 million dollar question, however, is actually a number of primary questions. Secondary and tertiary questions can be omitted for the moment. The biggies are: 1) What is the ranking of each biodiesel from highest energy value to lowest, per gallon or liter? 2) What is the yield of biodiesel from each oil from highest yield to lowest, per gallon or liter? 3) What is the coking potential of each biodiesel, based upon static tests over time? 4) What is the cloud point of each oil's biodiesel from highest temp to lowest? 5) What variances occur in answers to the above three questions when using differing alcohols to form the esters, such as methyl, ethyl, iso-propyl, iso-butyl, etc? While there are some studies that try to corner the elusive answer to your question, absolutely no one to date, at least relative to general knowledge, has conducted an experiment of appropriate breadth, depth and duration to accurately answer the question What is the best oil from which to manufacture biodiesel? There are a lot of oils, a lot of alcohols, several different processes and a somewhat large cost factor incurred to analyze each variable accurately. Until such a time as these measures are taken, you'll be relatively safe to continue with mainstays such as rapeseed, soy, used veg and animal oils, palm or any others that have logged hundreds of thousands of miles and been documented. Going beyond that, you'll probably need a reasonably large grant in order to determine the unequivocal answer. Hope this answers your question... :-) Todd Swearingen Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel commercialization
I understand from a friend who works for Central Soya in Illinois that they have biodiesel production capability but do not offer it for sale. Apparently other sourses also refuse to sell it for road use. What is going on? .. Gary, I can only presume a couple of reasons for their position. But I can guarantee you that our biggest obstacle to selling road biodiesel is government. Making methyl or ethyl esters is one thing. You can sell billions of gallons of esters all day long under little scrutiny. Selling off road and road taxable fuel crosses into the realm of licensing and bonding for fuel distribution and throws open the flood gates for government manipulation and intervention. Some states charge as much as a $150,000.00 US bond just to legally be permitted to sell the fuel, others a lesser value. Fifty states times x equals a boatload of revenue. All-the-while, this money isn't necessarily placed in an escrow account to the bond holder's benefit. (Some would call this theft. Others simply call it government.) If you only have one fueling station, for example the point of manufacture, the same dollar values apply, even though your distribution circle is limited solely to your country mile. Until such time as farmers develop umbrella co-ops for fuel distribution, splitting the licensing and bonding fees and establishing individual fueling centers throughout the cooperative's region - much as do the fossil fuel giants - there won't be much road taxable or off road fuel production. Also, until the combined cost of manufacturing biodiesel and federal and state road taxes (~$0.45 - ~$0.50 US per gallon of diesel) approaches the cost of dino diesel, they will continue to manufacture and sell ethyl and methyl ester - not biodiesel. Also take into consideration that when selling esters as off road biodiesel, there is the US requirement that the fuel be dyed with 3.9 pounds of solvent red per 1,000 barrels (42 gallons per barrel). When selling pure esters, there is no such requirement. Selling esters as non-taxable off road fuel incurs one more manufacturing cost and forces the manufacturer to carry two inventories, dyed off road fuel and pure esters. It is not the manufacturer's responsibility to keep the end user honest. Should you wish to pull up in a flatbed and load 20 drums of ester, so be it. Should you so choose to consume it all purely as a solvent, fine. Should you so choose to put this product in your farm tractor's fuel tank or a heating oil tank, it is not the manufacturer's concern. Should you put same in your tractor trailer or VW Rabbit, it should remain no concern to the manufacturer. However, the moment you pull up and pump the ester into your fuel tank, government regs make it a liability to the manufacturer. Most are only preparing to start accepting this burden. It will take some more time. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel commercialization
To start the commercialization of biodiesel why couldn't we start selling and using a 20% blend of biodiesel? That way the taxes can be collected and we can start reducing the consumption of petroleum products and reduce pollutants. I've read somewhere that by the year 2007 truck emissions will need to be reduced drastically and that a biodiesel blend may meet the new standards. Any thoughts? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Bill to boost alternative fuels, cars
After reading S760, I find nothing that would offer and tax relief for any type of Biodiesel. Where is the help to commercialize BioD??? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
OK - technically, yes. Lowest heat of combustion is canola methyl ester at 39.9 Mj/kg Highest is rape at 40.54 Mj/kg The rest are in between D2 is 45.42 Mj/kg I reiterate - to all intents and purposes - no Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel commercialization
Yes but that means they will start in the year 2006 or early 2007 Doug Murray Sr. -Original Message- From: Ralph Chamberlain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:12 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel commercialization To start the commercialization of biodiesel why couldn't we start selling and using a 20% blend of biodiesel? That way the taxes can be collected and we can start reducing the consumption of petroleum products and reduce pollutants. I've read somewhere that by the year 2007 truck emissions will need to be reduced drastically and that a biodiesel blend may meet the new standards. Any thoughts? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel commercialization
But we need to start the infrastructure now, so the production capability will meet the demand by the year 2006. Does anyone know of government grants provided to start up biodiesel production plants? Ralph Chamberlain [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Bill to boost alternative fuels, cars
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading S760, I find nothing that would offer and tax relief for any type of Biodiesel. Where is the help to commercialize BioD??? All together now, one, two, three - PUSH!!! Keep pushing, any way you can, at any and all levels. Biod's the best answer around, it makes lots of sense in many different ways. We know it, but it won't make much difference unless we do whatever we can to make it known. Spread the word - if you make biodiesel, don't keep it a secret, if you use it in your motor, say so, keep saying so. Talk, do, show, demonstrate. Four obstacles to overcome: government and official inertia, big and probably hostile business interests, public ignorance, and a largely supine media. The little guys, backyard biofuellers, small operators, amateurs, are really good at dealing with the last two, much better than the big companies and their ad agencies and PR firms (they've told me so). It could be the last two that matter the most - shift public opinion, and government will eventually follow, and there's not a lot the biz interests can do about it. Except shove us aside, move in and take over. Well, so what, as long as they do the job properly. But there's more to it than just being able to get biod at the filling station at a reasonable price. Todd's point (and others') about local-level energy independence is a most important one. The big guys will kick that aside too, at great cost to local communities, farmers, and just about everyone else. It's up to us to establish things at ground level that can't be pushed aside too easily. Do it now, while the going's good. My two yen. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
