[biofuel] Heating affairs (long) was:winterizing biodiesel

[Aleksander <kac]

As for the copper assembly, it appealed to me for the simplicity. I 
don't have one - cannot because I got stainless steel fuel lines and 
am affraid of "electro" corrosion. So I had me made 6 meters of 
electric heating line (like the ones that are used to heat reptile 
tanks) with a specific power about 20 watts per meter. I taped the 
line to both fuel lines with a special alluminum adhesive tape 
(conducts heat very vell). I then put those plastic zippers (like for 
cables) every 5 centimeters. I know, seems a lot of work, but I do go 
offroad and the heating line was 30$. It took 2.5 hours to complete 
this work. I then glued a simple Hella light relais and a 12 amp 
single fuse box in series in a small plastic junction box (been 
reading Home power a lot lately :o) ), screwed the junction box in 
the engine compartment and pulled a cable for the switch under the 
dash. 
I connected the affair to the battery on the (+) side and closed the 
loop at the engine for a massive (-). 
In two minutes the heating line reaches 50 degC and more or less 
stays. There is an optional thermostat ($$), but for now I'll operate 
it manually.
I'll put some insulation around it sometime next week.

Cheers, Aleks


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[biofuel] Cancel

[MgroveOES]

please cancel my place at biofuel chat group


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel

[Neoteric Biofuels]

winter diesel was found to work as well as any of the other pour point
depressants  that were tried (from a US study from a few years ago...can't
remember who right now)

Ed B.

www.biofuels.ca


> 
> 


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Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel

[Neoteric Biofuels]

Yes, some.

 I avoided copper for use in SVO systems, since copper, heat, and older oils
to begin (WVO)  all add up to faster degradation of oil and  growth of
"interesting things", it seems.

It formed anyway, not in the plastic line, but  as small amounts on the
outside, on copper and brass  fitting threads, at weeps.

That formed farily quickly in warm weather (over a few months), but of
course it was on the outside, in the air.

 However, it didn't look like anything I'd want forming, over time, in or
anywhere near the fuel system - anything metal in these systems should be
designed to be easy to dismantle, inspect and clean from time to time,
especially if you use copper, IMHO.


"Avoid Copper 
Another important tip is to avoid the use of copper. Do not use a
thermometer with copper components, or use copper utensils or a copper
scrubber to clean the cooker. Even the most minute particles of copper will
cause the oil to deteriorate rapidly. This is true for all fats and oils. "
www.cottonseed.com (trade association web site)


A picture of deposits on metal (various metal, not  specifically copper, but
shows the sorts of deposits that might form, and Bengt offers advice to use
newer oil and avoid galvanised metals (as found in older type steel marine
gas cans, BTW)

http://www.oilpress.com/avlagring-pa-meter2.JPG


Ed B.
www.biofuels.ca

















> From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:50:35 -0500
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel
> 
> have you seen veg oil / copper reaction? we have not.
> 
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> 
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
> Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
> http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - Original Message -
> From: "Neoteric Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel
> 
> 
>> ...and a thermostat, a relay, ...and your time...and you hope for not too
>> much buildup on the inside of the copper over time, (from the vegoil
>> reacting with the copper)
>> 
>> We have a nice filter heater that straps onto the filter, and we also have
> a
>> new type of inline heater in the works that will be very useful for SVO.
>> 
>> Ed B.
>> www.biofuels.ca
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: "Aleksander 
>>> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>>> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:23:06 -
>>> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel
>>> 
>>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tom Kissick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 It is getting cold in northern Alberta,Is there a process to
>>> winterize biodiesel
 
>>> Fuel line and filter heaters are a permanent solution, doable in DIY
>>> techniques.
>>> http://www.planet-interkom.de/mic.stern/durchlauferhitzer.htm
>>> It's in german, but you'll get the picture. A few pieces of copper
>>> tubing and a diesel glow plug is all it takes. Or you can buy
>>> identical expensive things from Racor (expensive here in Europe due
>>> to high shipment costs and customs duties.
>>> 
>>> Cheers, Aleks
>>> 

> 
> 


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Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel

[robert luis rabello]

steve spence wrote:

> have you seen veg oil / copper reaction? we have not.
>
>

I have noted a vegetable oil / copper reaction on the top plate of my scroll
expander project.  I used canola in the scroll just to make sure it would work,
and after a few days, detected a crusty build up on the underside of the top
plate.

robert luis rabello


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Re: [biofuel] Blending of Alcohol in gasoline

[steve spence]

ethanol needs to be anhydrous. methanol does not.

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "sameer bawa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 3:21 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Blending of Alcohol in gasoline


>
>
> I am intrested in blending alcohol in gasoline. PLease let me know what is
the Specification of alcohol required to be used as fuel. Can I use
anhydrous ethyl alcohol directly by blending to gasoline. Any other process
other than blending is required for making gasohol?
>
> Thanks
>
> Sameer Bawa
> Pioneer TechnologistsGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] why not ask Mark from Hi clone your selfs

[Ken]

Hi all,

All this talk and speculations isn't doing us any good and wastes alot of
bandwidth.  I remember last time i had to delete alot of mail regarding
this and i forsee that this will happen again everytime we talk about the
cyclone and the fuel line magnet.  We have to be objective about the
question [Do air turbulence in the intake increase efficiency] and not
target each others credibility or background.

So here are some suggestions:

1. ask some university students(mechanical engineering, chemical
engineering, aeronautic engineering, PhDs to take this topic up for their
thesis work and have them explain what is going on.

2. ask your friends who work in the automotive, aeronautic or chemical
industry if they have ever encountered these and ask for substantial text
and proof.

3. testing by ourselves would entail some money and if we did it ourselves
would be like inventing the wheel several hundred times over so why dont we
drop something in the bucket and pool our resources to have a credible lab
test this thing.  So there, i pledge 1 dollar to the "Do cyclones work and
why it works fund",  Keith, wanna be the administrator for the pot?

So there we have a solution to our thread problem.

Any violent reactions?

Ken

At 07:16 PM 11/5/01 -0500, you wrote:
>I want unbiased accredited testing. not interested in dubious manufacturers
>claims.
>
>
>Steve Spence



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Re: [biofuel] and self-sensations - ("hypochondria c shift")

[steve spence]

WTF?

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "otepopo_ostriches" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:30 PM
Subject: [biofuel] and self-sensations - ("hypochondriac shift")


World - (mental isolation, the infringement of his system of relations) This
testifies to the formation of the steadily changing condition of
consciousness to being protective - a compensating reaction of mentality
directed at the stabilization of the mental condition and the "repair of a
brain on the move".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel

[steve spence]

we use kerosene in the winter, up to 50/50 mix.

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Tom Kissick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel


> Is there any additives currently available that can be mixed to drop the
> cloud point Aleks
>
>
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>


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Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel

[steve spence]

have you seen veg oil / copper reaction? we have not.

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Neoteric Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel


> ...and a thermostat, a relay, ...and your time...and you hope for not too
> much buildup on the inside of the copper over time, (from the vegoil
> reacting with the copper)
>
> We have a nice filter heater that straps onto the filter, and we also have
a
> new type of inline heater in the works that will be very useful for SVO.
>
> Ed B.
> www.biofuels.ca
>
>
>
>
> > From: "Aleksander 
> > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:23:06 -
> > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tom Kissick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> It is getting cold in northern Alberta,Is there a process to
> > winterize biodiesel
> >>
> > Fuel line and filter heaters are a permanent solution, doable in DIY
> > techniques.
> > http://www.planet-interkom.de/mic.stern/durchlauferhitzer.htm
> > It's in german, but you'll get the picture. A few pieces of copper
> > tubing and a diesel glow plug is all it takes. Or you can buy
> > identical expensive things from Racor (expensive here in Europe due
> > to high shipment costs and customs duties.
> >
> > Cheers, Aleks
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] and self-sensations - ("hypochondria c shift")

[Oscar Pet Foods]

WHAT THE 


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[biofuel] and self-sensations ö ("hypochondriac shift")

[otepopo_ostriches]

World - (mental isolation, the infringement of his system of relations) This 
testifies to the formation of the steadily changing condition of consciousness 
to being protective - a compensating reaction of mentality directed at the 
stabilization of the mental condition and the ãrepair of a brain on the move".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Re: Biodiesel for heating - viscosity

[Jim]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Aleksander  wrote:
> 
> > Can you give me some idea of viscosity of dino-fuel at particular 
> > temperatures. 
> Yeah. Viscosity is measured at 20 degC for biodiesel, because with 
> heat it's viscosity falls close to that of dino. Dino's viscosity 
> changes very little with temperature - compared to biodiesel.
> 
I believe Joshua Tickells book "Fryer to the Fuel Tank" has a chart 
of Viscosity/Temperature for bio and dino diesel.
Bd doesn't approach dd till 50 degrees C.



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[biofuel] Blending of Alcohol in gasoline

[sameer bawa]

I am intrested in blending alcohol in gasoline. PLease let me know what is the 
Specification of alcohol required to be used as fuel. Can I use anhydrous ethyl 
alcohol directly by blending to gasoline. Any other process other than blending 
is required for making gasohol?

Thanks

Sameer Bawa
Pioneer TechnologistsGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : 
http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Animal Fat to Biofuel

[Ted Swarts]

Saria Bio-Industries of Germany has built the world's first animal biodiesel 
plant with a capacity to produce about 10 million liters per year.

Cow carcasses are the primary feedstock, from which fat and meal are extracted 
and separated. The fat is converted into biodiesel using a process that yields 
clear and odorless fuel and the meal is packaged into pellets to be used as a 
solid fuel to be burnt for thermal energy.

I'm unaware of any urls related to this subject which I found this morning in 
the print edition of the Vancouver Province.

Ted Swarts
Kelowna, British Columbia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] tall-oil

[Neoteric Biofuels]

www.dynamotive.com

pyrolysis, though.

--



> From: a ka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:03:30 -0800 (PST)
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [biofuel] tall-oil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> Did anyone work with tall oil fatty acid as a diesel
> fuel additive, I'm trying to find some experiment
> results for my master thesis?  Could anyone help me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ayse 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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> 
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> 
> 


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Re: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel

[Neoteric Biofuels]

...and a thermostat, a relay, ...and your time...and you hope for not too
much buildup on the inside of the copper over time, (from the vegoil
reacting with the copper)

We have a nice filter heater that straps onto the filter, and we also have a
new type of inline heater in the works that will be very useful for SVO.

Ed B.
www.biofuels.ca




> From: "Aleksander 
> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:23:06 -
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: winterizing biodiesel
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tom Kissick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It is getting cold in northern Alberta,Is there a process to
> winterize biodiesel
>> 
> Fuel line and filter heaters are a permanent solution, doable in DIY
> techniques.
> http://www.planet-interkom.de/mic.stern/durchlauferhitzer.htm
> It's in german, but you'll get the picture. A few pieces of copper
> tubing and a diesel glow plug is all it takes. Or you can buy
> identical expensive things from Racor (expensive here in Europe due
> to high shipment costs and customs duties.
> 
> Cheers, Aleks
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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> 
> 


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[biofuel] tall-oil

[a ka]

Hi, 

Did anyone work with tall oil fatty acid as a diesel
fuel additive, I'm trying to find some experiment
results for my master thesis?  Could anyone help me?






ayse 






__
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[biofuel] Re: Help with making biodiesel(long)

[Aleksander <kac]

>   Thanks for the advice.  Will give your suggestions a go and 
see 
> what happens.  We are reasonably confident that we are getting the 
> water out.  We have made a very good heating system that boils the 
> oil all day on about 20 litres of old sump oil.  Gets the temp up 
to 
> 100degC in about 1/2 hour and keeps it there until all the water is 
> boiled off.  When the temp rises to about 130degC we turn it off.  
> Will try a way of separating it without the boiling process if it 
> gets to acidic though.  Unfortunately here most people are using 
> animal fats. It is cheaper for them to by it than vegie oil, so 
> mixing the two is not really an option.

No problem, Allan. Another word on the 130 deg heating : it actually 
worsens the quality of the fat, causing FFA number to rise. 
Industrial bio producers keep it in insulated tanks @55 degC for 
longer periods and take only the top portion.
Hope it helps!

Cheers, Aleks


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[biofuel] Re: Biodiesel for heating - viscosity

[Aleksander <kac]

> Can you give me some idea of viscosity of dino-fuel at particular 
> temperatures. 
Yeah. Viscosity is measured at 20 degC for biodiesel, because with 
heat it's viscosity falls close to that of dino. Dino's viscosity 
changes very little with temperature - compared to biodiesel.

I assume this is temperature dependent. Can dino-oil be used as 
> a standard and biodiesel viscosity be estimated based on time 
ratios at a 
> particular temperature? What are we looking for as to the 
acceptable limits? 
Dino is between 1.5 and 3.5 centistokes @ 20 degC - correct me if I'm 
wrong, fellas - unachievable with bio due to it's chemical properties.
So 4 cSt would be exceptionally good, 5-6 acceptable, 7-8 not quite 
good and >8 cSt would be bad. But that's just my 0.02$.

> Is there some correspondence between specific gravity, which is 
simple to 
> measure, and viscosity? 
Not really. I've seen bio with a Sg 0.885 g/l (excellent) and have a 
kinematic viscosity of 10.5 cSt (horrible) but an acceptable cetane 
number of ~50! Have someone from the list post a link to the DIN 
51606 standard, there is all you need to know what good bio should be 
like (I don't have the link).

Cheers, Aleks
Cheers, Aleks



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel for heating - viscosity

[Tilapia]

Sorry to appear rude, actually, sometimes tone of voice is hard to control in 
this medium.  Anyway, your method of determining viscosity is looking good. 
Can you give me some idea of viscosity of dino-fuel at particular 
temperatures. I assume this is temperature dependent. Can dino-oil be used as 
a standard and biodiesel viscosity be estimated based on time ratios at a 
particular temperature? What are we looking for as to the acceptable limits? 
Is there some correspondence between specific gravity, which is simple to 
measure, and viscosity? If these answers are not all available at this time, 
how about we set up the questions and try to get answers over the next few 
weeks and compare notes. Thanks!


In a message dated 11/6/01 1:20:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> And just how am I to measure out ~5 centistokes?  What are 
centistrokes 
> anyway, a bug disease? 
Hey no need to be rude, man! You asked the question, here are the 
answers. 
Kinematic viscosity is measured in "Stokes". You can not measure it 
at home without a viscosimetre. There is a comparative way, though.
Take a liquid with a known viscosity value (dino heating oil, look 
the value up in a engineering manual) and let a known volume flow 
through an upsidedown plastic water bottle with a drinking straw 
glued in a hole in the screw top. Stop the time with a stopwatch. Do 
the same with your biodiesel (same volume) and compare the results. 
Generally a smaller diameter straw will produce more accurate 
results. If the time of your sample is 1.5 the time of your control 
sample (dino) this means its viscosity is roughly 1.6ish that of the 
control sample.

Cheers, Aleks
 >>


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[biofuels-biz] enzymes

[goat industries]

  Harry!
  Glad to see there's some interest in this method of 'biodiesel' production. I 
think you're right that it would no longer be called biodiesel, there's a 
company called Ebony solutions in Chester, UK that produces what it calls 
'E-diesel'. They claim improvements in performance over fossil diesel and I am 
informed that there are no bi-products. I think that your ideas about the 
possible use of micro-organisms or lipase enzymes are on the right track, I'm 
trying to remember my biology from school and have vague recollections of 
enzymes helping to break down fats in acidic conditions in the stomach. I will 
try to speak to somebody with better knowledge on the subject. Cheers for now 
... Paddy


  I note that the Coco diesel doesn't claim to be methyl esters. 
  Digestion by micro-organisms is an obvious step in Oil extraction if 
  the product doesn't need to be edible. It is quite likely that some 
  yeast like bugs would target the glycerol part of an oil molecule, 
  releasing FFAs. In fact any bug that causes rancidity would be 
  expected to do just that. Many of the countries that produce excess 
  coconut require stationary desiels that can easily be converted to 
  SVO and coconut has the advantage of requiring next to no refining 
  compared to other vegy oils that contain gums etc.. Hanns has worked 
  for some time on practical alternatives for direct oil extraction 
  from fresh coconuts-When he returns fron New Guinea I will refer this 
  thread.
  Regards from Harry





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Re: Help with making biodiesel(long)

[allan . waide]

Aleks,

  Thanks for the advice.  Will give your suggestions a go and see 
what happens.  We are reasonably confident that we are getting the 
water out.  We have made a very good heating system that boils the 
oil all day on about 20 litres of old sump oil.  Gets the temp up to 
100degC in about 1/2 hour and keeps it there until all the water is 
boiled off.  When the temp rises to about 130degC we turn it off.  
Will try a way of separating it without the boiling process if it 
gets to acidic though.  Unfortunately here most people are using 
animal fats. It is cheaper for them to by it than vegie oil, so 
mixing the two is not really an option.

Thanks again
Allan
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Aleksander  wrote:
> Allan,
> 
> Animal fat contains a LOT OF WATER. It's very difficult to settle 
the 
> water out. Generally speaking it would require a week to 10 days at 
> 55 degC to settle. Heat drying of natural fats is not very 
advisable 
> because it tends to raise the acid count. Therefore partially dried 
> animal fat is added to dried vegetable oil in a 25% vs. 75% ratio 
> respectively. 
> The two stage acid-base recipes are very much affected by water. 
One 
> way to make it work better is to lower the temperature of your 
> reaction mixture to 35 degC with the acid stage. Base stage should 
be 
> done at whatever your usual temperature is (I prefer 55 degC). The 
> time of the acid stage should be extended for 30% at least, base 
> stage your usual time, I do it for 1.5 hours.
> 
> Biodiesel return should be at least 90% vol/vol on base recipes 
with 
> reasonably clean and dry oil/fat. With acid/base recipes and the 
same 
> quality of oil the return is 100-103% vol/vol.I know it sounds 
silly, 
> but the density is so much lower that you can actually see the 
> difference in volumes.
> 
> Biodiesel made with a high animal fat content is a lower grade fuel 
> for several reasons:
> 1. it's more difficult to produce and therefore prone to production 
> errors which lower the quality
> 2. cold weather properties are much worse than with vegetal fats
> 3. even with a good fat to ester conversion the liquid ester has a 
> high viscosity value : generally more than 10 centistokes. 
Biodiesel 
> standards allow for about 5.something centistokes.
> 
> I use my collected animal fats in a 10% mixture with veggie oil in 
> biodiesel for the car in warmer months. In winter the said 
biodiesel 
> is used for heating my flat and I run my Jeep on 100% veggie ester, 
> without any additives (installled a cheapo fuel line heater, heheh).
> 
> Cheers, Aleks


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RE: [biofuel] MB 240D

[Anton Berteuax]

I have a line on a running bu5t beat rabbitpossoibly for $150, also, a
complete relatively low miles drive train,1.6l, 4 spd trans. make offer. I
am in san francisco
anton

-Original Message-
From: greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 11:20 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] MB 240D


several months ago, someone was looking for a  MB diesel. i found a 240 d at
a good price. if they are still interested contact me.   greg


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Re: [biofuel] why not ask Mark from Hi clone your selfs

[Martin R.]

Well go and ask him then

Martin R.


At 11:16 AM 6/11/01, you wrote:
>I want unbiased accredited testing. not interested in dubious manufacturers
>claims.
>
>
>Steve Spence
>Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
>Renewable Energy Pages - 
>http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
>Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
>http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>- Original Message -
>From: "Martin R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:43 AM
>Subject: [biofuel] why not ask Mark from Hi clone your selfs
>
>
> > Hi Steve
> >
> > I'm a mechanic as well how ever I don't know Mark personably and
> > thought I let him
> > explain . why don't you and others ask him direct on what it is you all
> > want to know about
> > the Hi clone and its claims and so on as I did
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > Martin R.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 09:25 PM 5/11/01, you wrote:
> > >I guess you glossed over my explanation of the diesel power cycle.
> > >
> > >Did I mention I've been working on diesel's for 20 years. My grandfather
> > >started the business 50 years ago. Did I mention I went to school for
> > >Engineering Science? I only asked you to explain how this could work in a
> > >diesel, and since you could not explain, how am I to take your claims
> > >seriously? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
> > >
> > >
> > >Steve Spence
> > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> >
> ><http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.h 
> tm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> > >
> > >Renewable Energy Pages -
> > ><http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/>http:// 
> www.webconx.dns2go.com/
> > >Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
> >
> ><http://24.190.106.81:8383 
> /2000/humanpower.htm>http://24.190.106.81:8383/20
>00/humanpower.htm
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >- Original Message -
> > >From: "bloke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: 
> > >Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 4:22 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I love the unbiased scientific procedure used . " they sell magnets ,
>they
> > >not credible"
> > > > A Hiclone got nothing to do with magnets.
> > > > Its got to do with air flow
> > > > It has not been in any way proved to not work other than " They sell
> > >magnets"
> > > > Somehow , in the unbiased and totaly openminded evaluation of Hiclone
>by
> > >the scientist , them magnets sorta stuck things up.
> > > > Its just too bad .
> > > > For science that is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 08:24:56 -0500
> > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
> > > > >
> > > > >I've seen no log book evidence by an unbiased accredited testing lab.
>Is
> > > > >that too much too ask? We had a friend that used to go on and on
>about
> > >the
> > > > >great mileage his vw used to get. Finally some other "friends" got
>tired
> > >of
> > > > >hearing about it all the time, and started adding a little fuel time
> > >after
> > > > >time. He got so excited about his "80mpg car" he called vw. when he
> > >finally
> > > > >found out what was going on, he wouldn't speak with them for close to
>a
> > > > >year. So, logbooks? hmm..
> > > > >
> > > > >Steve Spence
> > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> > > >
> ><http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.h 
> tm>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> > > > >
> > > > >Renewable Energy Pages -
> > > 
> <http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/>http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
> > > > >Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
> > > >
> ><http://24.190.106.81:8383 
> /2000/humanpower.htm>http://24.190.106.81:838
> > > 3/2000/humanpower.htm
> > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >- Original Message -
> > > > >From: "Neoteric Biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >To: 
> > > > >Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 4:34 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hiclone
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> Ok. remote chance, not too likely, and the log book evidence that's
> > >been
> > > > >> presented...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Well, who knows. Certainly, the company offers no solid proof they
>work
> > > > >(the
> > > > >> devices...well maybe not the perps either), which would help their
> > >sales
> > > > >> quite a lot, so ya gotta wonder about that.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But hey, don't be so tough on them about the magnets.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I put magnets on my fuel line.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My appetite increased  (well, maybe it was th