[biofuel] caught this on arcmax news, any thoughts??
lurker here for awhile, looking to convert my 4wd dodge 79 van 360 auto to a diesel THEN to bio diesel (van is a 1ton so I know it can take the weight regardless, just building up my stockpile of info, any one recommend a good starter book?? also nay thoughts on the below, seems simple but with what I read on these lists, seems TOO simple, comments, advice?? thanks Gord in the great white north !! ArcaMax Automotive for Thursday 11/29/2001 Now you can run a diesel car on used vegetable oil! Unique product allows users to run any diesel car on free, used vegetable oil. Rhode Island, USA - Chinadepot launches a new kind of fuel saver, the greasel. Using this conversion kit, diesel drivers can now run their cars on used vegetable oil, available in gallons from most restaurants. This product is now ready for marketing worldwide through Chinadepot. Ready and easy to install by a non-mechanic, the Greasel conversion kit allows diesel drivers to run any diesel on free waste vegetable oil. The key to running a diesel on vegetable oil is heat, provided to the special tank and fuel line by the hot coolant your engine is already producing. The engine is started and brought up to temperature on regular diesel. When the engine and tank of vegetable oil is warm you simply flip a switch on your dashboard. The fuel solenoid switches you from diesel to vegetable oil and suddenly you're going down the road for free! Other benefits include no loss of power, a cleaner exhaust, a better lubricated engine, and cleaner fuel emission. About 5 minutes before you get to your destination, switch back to diesel to clear the injection pump and fuel lines of vegetable oil. Chinadepot is now seeking worldwide dealers and distributors. For more information on the greasel units and Chinadepot, visit http://www.chinadepot.com or call USA 1 401 725 8141. Chinadepot is a global web and bricks and mortar wholesaler of innovative products through its web site. For more information, please contact: Robert Flood Globaldialing.com http://www.chinadepot.com 33 4 50 47 25 35 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Courtesy of PRWeb http://www.prweb.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Waste engine oil filter machine
This is my first post even tho I have been recieving for many months, as I have read of the varous efforts to filter the Bio diesel, my thoughts keep going back to a friend of my Dads, who had a machine that was built in the 1880s by a rail road company, Any way this machine was a oil reclaimer, And the basis of how it worked was, the oil (used motor oil) was put in to the vessel, (looked like an old coal furnace) probly held 100 to 200 gallons of oil, the oil was heated to about 350 F for a period of time, and then a valve was shut to stop the venting after the heat was removed, and another valve was opened up and ran the oil to the filtering part of the unit, which consited of a few layers of brown wraping paper (simular to what a brown paper grocery sack is made of) layed over some type of screen grate, a layer of "fullers earth" (which to my under standing is bentinite clay) and air presure (aprox 100 psi) was added to force the hot oil through the clay/paper filter. (the one time I saw it, the fuller earth was about 1" thick), (he said diesel oil was very hard to remove the carbon out of or to make it look clear, gas engine oil was fairly easy to clean) now he resold the oil to engine rebuilders in the 1960's through the 1970's, as they wanted a none detergent oil to break in the motors, he said that he had the reclaimed oil sent in and tested and said it met virgin oil requirments at the time, (He gave me the impresion that the heating and the filtering would remove many of the oil additives, but rember there were a lot less additives 25 to 40 years ago) My next point I know of a few trucking companies that would dump there used oil in to there diesel tanks and extend the fule or dispose of the used oil by using it as fule, but my thought has all way been if cleaned/reclamed motor oil was added to diesiel in small percentages, that there would be few if any problems and or if you do like the bio fule people do start and stop on regular diesel, Just my thoughts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Waste engine oil
It's possible that one could filter the waste motor oil with fine enough filtration - 2 microns or less - to get rid of all the additives. (And, presumably, the funky-when-burned combustion and friction byproducts.) I've heard that one danger associated with using extra-fine filtration on engine oil is that all or most of the beneficial additives are larger than 2 microns, so they'd get filtered out. Which would be a good thing in this case. But I'd consult with a lubrication engineer, or the tech support line at a major motor oil company. Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Allison > Yeah - this works, but the emissions are bad bad. Please dont be tempted. > Lubricating oil is for lubricating. There are many additives in it designed > to improve its job of lubricating. These are harmful when released into the > atmosphere by burning. > Regards > Donaldiesel > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EPA stance on burning waste oil
Donald D. and David P: Who says burning waste oil is "bad-bad." And what's this hooey (reference please) about waste oil emissions causing "testicular cancer?" Certainly not the EPA. In fact the EPA *ENCOURAGES* burning of waste motor oil as preferable to the environmental damage from uncontrolled release to the environment. They view the environmental hazard of a certain "trace" percentage of "bearing heavy metals" contained in the air emissions as far preferable to the polluting effects of oil in water and the damage to wildlife and water supplies. According to another EPA related source, one drop of waste motor oil in the liquid form can pollute to be unfit for drinking 1 million gallons of water. See http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/non-hw/recycle/89039a.txt for details on the EPA position. As part of this also note the description of the public perception of waste oil disposal methods. To save some detailed reading, I will copy this here... [Graph] Public Perceptions of the Harmfulness of Various Used Oil Practices Use as fuel for oil furnace 66% Use as weed killer 75% Applying to roads 53% Burying in the ground 77% Placing in closed container in the trash88% Pouring down the sewer 95% Pouring on the ground9% At 9 percent, the public acceptance of pouring it on the ground is in exact opposition to the environmental damage, much to the chagrin of the EPA and a few environmentally conscious people. With every new manufactured waste oil furnace, the manufacturer encloses a sheet which is to be filled in by the owner and sent into the EPA to "register" the furnace. Why this is I can only speculate but so far I have not heard of a single case of a "registered" furnace installation being shut down, monitored, or even critiqued by the EPA. There are also many states that regulate waste oil burning but usually these include a dissertation of the same "environmental advantages" that the EPA cites. There have been a few "bad" burners of waste oil created. One story I've heard is that you can simply "drip" your waste oil onto a roaring wood stove fire and both dispose and get some heat out of it. A horror story I've heard along these lines involved a service station owner who converted a gas or oil stove (kitchen domestic range) by dripping oil into the oven portion and venting the products of combustion out a hole cut in the top where the burner used to be. I don't think this is exactly what the EPA had in mind. While waste oil LOOKS bad and the public has caught onto that perception, most of that appearance is due to carbon caused by cylinder blowby and from cylinder wear from cast iron cylinder walls (cast iron is actually an iron/carbon matrix). The trace amounts of heavy metal from bearing sources is virtually lost in the (by comparison) large quantities of oil that flush the engine with each oil change. Over the life of an engine we're talking very, very small amount of heavy metals. Inarguably, waste lubricating oil is best kept as lubricating oil. Recycling in this manner has it's place which should be first. A lot of energy and engineering science goes to make the oil molecules do the magic that they do in lubrication and it's a shame to burn up this science and engineering simply to keep warm. HOWEVER, when the alternative is a potential truck spill and the consequent environmental damage while the oil goes to a recycler, perhaps burning is a better option. And burning waste oil cleanly by gasification, atomization, burning in suspension, or dripping in an artfully contrived turbulant burner pot is far better than dumping it on the ground. Check your facts folks. Best regards, Joe Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Waste engine oil
Allison Yeah - this works, but the emissions are bad bad. Please dont be tempted. Lubricating oil is for lubricating. There are many additives in it designed to improve its job of lubricating. These are harmful when released into the atmosphere by burning. Regards Donaldiesel Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Waste engine oil
I have heard that there are companies who can recycle this oil for use as more engine lubricating oil. It is not suitable as a fuel due to the harmful (when burnt) additives. Some years ago a neighbour begged me for my can of used oil after I had serviced my car. I later noticed that he had 'creosoted' the garden fence with it! Hmm... look out pussy cat :-) Donaldiesel Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] waste motor oil and unimogs
Some unimogs (military spec have a "last ditch option" tap which drains engine oil to burn up to about 20 miles. A lot of large trucks also use this technique to change oil on the go. To clean up oil, I've read the oil is treated with concentrated sulphuric acid. This floculates out solids and additives. The oil is then sent for recycling by solvent refining. Using old oil will give you testicular cancer and exhausts are likely to be a complex mixture of burnt oil which contains a lot of very toxic additives. Be careful. Dave gawchicken2001 wrote: > > In 1990 in the Salt Lake City Basin, Yellow Freight had almost two > million gallons of underground diesel storage. Some one turned them > in to the Environmental Control District for dumping the used motor > oil into the underground tanks with only a rough screening to block > large debris from entering as well. They were mixing the used oil > fifty-fifty and it burned well. We (me) were in the service industry > at that time one hundred miles from their terminal and noticed while > doing work on the different vehicles the amount of oil around and > about the fuel tanks and asked several driver about this. > The long and the short of this story is they had to stop direct > mixing and sent the oil to another faciility for additional treatment > which non of the drivers knew of, but the used oil from 150 larged > trucks with the average being 13 gallons was mixed and burned very > well by a large company trying to cut costs. thanks gaw > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Recycling - not a chore more a way of life Dave Preskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] The BioComposites Centre University of Wales, Bangor Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] waste motor oil
In 1990 in the Salt Lake City Basin, Yellow Freight had almost two million gallons of underground diesel storage. Some one turned them in to the Environmental Control District for dumping the used motor oil into the underground tanks with only a rough screening to block large debris from entering as well. They were mixing the used oil fifty-fifty and it burned well. We (me) were in the service industry at that time one hundred miles from their terminal and noticed while doing work on the different vehicles the amount of oil around and about the fuel tanks and asked several driver about this. The long and the short of this story is they had to stop direct mixing and sent the oil to another faciility for additional treatment which non of the drivers knew of, but the used oil from 150 larged trucks with the average being 13 gallons was mixed and burned very well by a large company trying to cut costs. thanks gaw Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] unsubscribe
Dear Keith, Can you please unsubscribe me from the list of biofuels, Thanks Winfried Rijssenbeek _ Be kindly advised that the information in this message may be privileged or confidential. If you receive this email in error, please contact RR energy and delete the message and its attachments, without opening. _ - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 5:45 AM Subject: [biofuel] Fwd: [Distillers] New Distillers FAQ > >To: 'New Distillers newsgroup' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > >'Distillers newsgroup' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >From: Tony & Elle Ackland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:43:02 +1300 > >Subject: [Distillers] New Distillers FAQ > > > > > >** > >"NEW DISTILLERS" Frequently Asked Questions (Sept'01) > > > >Posted near the 1st of each month, to the NEW_DISTILLERS newsgroup at > >www.yahoogroups.com > > > >Please email any additions, corrections, clarifications required, etc > >regarding the FAQ to Tony Ackland ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), however please > >direct any general questions to the newsgroup itself. > > > >*** > > > >1) Is distilling hard to do ? > >2) Is it legal ? > >3) Will it make me blind ? > >4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and > >fractionating column ? > >5) How do I get or make a still ? > >6) How do I make a whisky / rum / vodka / gin ? > >7) Should I use sugar or grains ? > >8) Can I use fruit wine ? > >9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ? > >10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ? > >11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ? > >12) What web resources are there ? > >13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ? > >14) Can I run my car on it ? > >15) How do I convert between gallons and litres and > >16) What is a "Thumper" ? > >17) Can I use a reflux still to make rum or whisky ? > > > >** > > > >1) Is distilling hard to do ? > > > >Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can > >sucessfully distil. To distil well however, will require you to understand > >what you're doing, so read around and get a bit of information under your > >belt before you begin. > > > >2) Is it legal ? > > > >Probably not. It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries > >turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with punishment > >ranging from fines to imprisonment or floggings. This action against it is > >usually the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more > >generally due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through > >excise taxes. So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the potential > >legal ramifications. > > > >3) Will it make me blind ? > > > >Not if you're careful. This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore, > >which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases. The > >concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic nerve > >poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains or > >fruits high in pectin. This methanol comes off first from the still, so it > >is easily segregated and discarded. A simple rule of thumb for this is to > >throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L mash used). Probably the > >greatest risk to your health during distilling is the risk of fire - > >collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source. So keep a fire > >extinguisher nearby. > > > >4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and > >fractionating column ? > > > >A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off > >the boiling mash. This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity, > > with plenty of flavour in it. If this distillate were put through the pot > >still again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85% purity, and lose > >a bit of its flavour. > > > >A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by > >having some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and > >allowing some of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the > >packing. This "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and increase > >the % purity. The taller the packed column, and the more reflux liquid, the > >purer the product will be. The advantage of doing this is that it will > >result in a clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for mixing with > >flavours etc. > > > >A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still. It will condense > >all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10 back down > >the column. The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4 foot), and > >packed with a material high in surface
[biofuel] Fwd: [Distillers] New Distillers FAQ
>To: 'New Distillers newsgroup' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >'Distillers newsgroup' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >From: Tony & Elle Ackland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:43:02 +1300 >Subject: [Distillers] New Distillers FAQ > > >** >"NEW DISTILLERS" Frequently Asked Questions (Sept'01) > >Posted near the 1st of each month, to the NEW_DISTILLERS newsgroup at >www.yahoogroups.com > >Please email any additions, corrections, clarifications required, etc >regarding the FAQ to Tony Ackland ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), however please >direct any general questions to the newsgroup itself. > >*** > >1) Is distilling hard to do ? >2) Is it legal ? >3) Will it make me blind ? >4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and >fractionating column ? >5) How do I get or make a still ? >6) How do I make a whisky / rum / vodka / gin ? >7) Should I use sugar or grains ? >8) Can I use fruit wine ? >9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ? >10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ? >11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ? >12) What web resources are there ? >13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ? >14) Can I run my car on it ? >15) How do I convert between gallons and litres and >16) What is a "Thumper" ? >17) Can I use a reflux still to make rum or whisky ? > >** > >1) Is distilling hard to do ? > >Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can >sucessfully distil. To distil well however, will require you to understand >what you're doing, so read around and get a bit of information under your >belt before you begin. > >2) Is it legal ? > >Probably not. It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries >turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with punishment >ranging from fines to imprisonment or floggings. This action against it is >usually the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more >generally due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through >excise taxes. So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the potential >legal ramifications. > >3) Will it make me blind ? > >Not if you're careful. This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore, >which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases. The >concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic nerve >poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains or >fruits high in pectin. This methanol comes off first from the still, so it >is easily segregated and discarded. A simple rule of thumb for this is to >throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L mash used). Probably the >greatest risk to your health during distilling is the risk of fire - >collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source. So keep a fire >extinguisher nearby. > >4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and >fractionating column ? > >A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off >the boiling mash. This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity, > with plenty of flavour in it. If this distillate were put through the pot >still again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85% purity, and lose >a bit of its flavour. > >A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by >having some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and >allowing some of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the >packing. This "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and increase >the % purity. The taller the packed column, and the more reflux liquid, the >purer the product will be. The advantage of doing this is that it will >result in a clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for mixing with >flavours etc. > >A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still. It will condense >all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10 back down >the column. The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4 foot), and >packed with a material high in surface area, but which takes up little >space (pot scrubbers are good for this). It will result in an alcohol 95%+ >pure (the theoretical limit without using a vacuum is 96.48 %(by volume)), >with no other tastes or impurities in it. > >5) How do I get or make a still ? > >If you're after a pot still, these are generally home made using what-ever >you have at hand - say copper tubing and old water heaters or pressure >cookers. Reflux stills can be made from plans on the net, or bought from >several manufacturers. For reflux stil plans see Stillmakers "Build a World >Class Distillation Apparatus" at http://www.Moonshine-Still.com (Free!) or >Gert Strands : http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm (US$5). A good book >is Ian Smileys "Making Pure Corn Whisky" at >h
[biofuel] Waste engine oil
Jon, I am aware of a local transport company which undertakes its own (and external) vehicle servicing. The company filters the used engine oil, blends it with diesel and uses the blend in its fleet vehicles (with resultant economies in its diesel consumption). Unfortunately I have no more detail of the process. Allison -Original Message- From: J Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2002 2:25 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Waste engine oil Hi everyone, I have been reading about bio diesel on the web over the past few months and have joined this group to learn more. I am in business as a mechanic who is thinking of making and using Bio-Diesel for my work and own domestic vehicles. I have a particular question that is bugging me. I have checked the archives, searched for information and scratched my head about it.. As a mechanic, my chemistry knowledge is next to zero.. so forgive me if I am missing a point or the answer has been posted before. so here goes my question/questions As a mechanic, I accumulate gallons of waste engine oil from servicing customers cars. At the moment I pay a company to take this oil away to be recycled... can the bio-diesel process be used to convert this into diesel? or another process? or can anyone think of good uses for it rather than paying to have it removed? many thanks Jon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
