[biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
New to this list, and extremely impressed with the lucid, creative, and altruistic ideas being generated and shared. Way to go! I'm on board with all the compelling environmental motivations for using biodiesel, but to be honest what drove me here (after years of working as an environmental scientist in other realms and being only casually interested in energy), was the geopolitics of fossil fuels... The prospect of making fossil fuels obsolete before they become truly in short supply I believe could spare the world a lot of bloodshed, and could help instill confidence that our respective governments are executing their foreign policy on the basis of reasons other than jousting for control of limited energy reserves. The idea of contributing to efforts to this end greatly inspires me. So, with that inspiration, I've decided to take on organizing a community-driven project of modest scope but dramatic potential that will contribute in direct or indirect ways to events or actions that reduce the dependence of industrialized nations on fossil fuels. Outreach efforts about biodiesel seem to me like they could be a possible great choice (petitioning fast-food chains to make their waste available? getting New York City government vehicle fleets to use biodiesel?), but you on this list know far more than I about what specific projects could make a difference, and I respectfully and eagerly await your input. Andrew Hoppin N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.226.4550 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
Dear Andrew Hoppin, It sounds interesting. I prefer ther use of straight plant oil (unmodified) instead of biodiesel. But anyway you need a lot of oil. And I think the oil from perennial plants give a higher net yield. So I am promoting the plant Jatropha curcas, or phisic nut, a shrub which grows in tropical or subtropical regions with more than 600 mm of rainfall. The oil you can use directly in modified diesel engines, or as bio-diesel. In the bio-diesel case you also need big amounts of alcohol (methanol ar aethanol), and you will end up in a centralised technology (economy f scale). See the website explaining The Jatropha System at www.jatropha.org Kind regards Reinhard Henning Andrew Hoppin [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: New to this list, and extremely impressed with the lucid, creative, and altruistic ideas being generated and shared. Way to go! I'm on board with all the compelling environmental motivations for using biodiesel, but to be honest what drove me here (after years of working as an environmental scientist in other realms and being only casually interested in energy), was the geopolitics of fossil fuels... The prospect of making fossil fuels obsolete before they become truly in short supply I believe could spare the world a lot of bloodshed, and could help instill confidence that our respective governments are executing their foreign policy on the basis of reasons other than jousting for control of limited energy reserves. The idea of contributing to efforts to this end greatly inspires me. So, with that inspiration, I've decided to take on organizing a community-driven project of modest scope but dramatic potential that will contribute in direct or indirect ways to events or actions that reduce the dependence of industrialized nations on fossil fuels. Outreach efforts about biodiesel seem to me like they could be a possible great choice (petitioning fast-food chains to make their waste available? getting New York City government vehicle fleets to use biodiesel?), but you on this list know far more than I about what specific projects could make a difference, and I respectfully and eagerly await your input. Andrew Hoppin N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.226.4550 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: [vegoil-diesel] Criteria for studying Veggie fuel
Cross-post from the Vegoil-Diesel list. Keith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Prairie Dog [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:26:19 -0500 Subject: [vegoil-diesel] Criteria for studying Veggie fuel Hello, all! Okay, after reading (and even posting my own) many requests for info on the emissions and efficiencies of SVO/WVO, as compared to petroleum diesel, I have decided to do something about the lack of comprehensive info, and fight the conflicting and varied results that are available. (Invisible waves of applause buffet the internet... or my own conceited mind...) I run Cummins diesels in my recycling route trucks in the midwest (USA), and plan on converting them to WVO. I'd like to have one of our local universities or tech colleges (at least two are possibly interested in this idea) monitor the trucks' performance and emissions. I'd have them look at wear and tear issues of the engine and injector pumps, emissions, efficiency, etc... I'm gonna smell like a french-fry! I plan on it being a test of preheated (probably electrically) restaurant WVO using a two-tank system, year-round. I've also got a spare (currently dead) engine that if I can find enough parts to get it running again, I might donate to them to revive and use as a bench-test mule for examining different fuels, temperatures of fuel, etc... Okay, this where you all come in: I need to know what all to ask them to monitor, and how. Also, what should we do to create a baseline before the test? (Photographs of the valves and cylinders? Pressure tests at certain points in the fuel system? Temperature output at the exhaust manifold? Horsepower at the rear wheels? Of a 20,000 pound vehicle??!?) I have a few problems that make things difficult: my fuel usage is measured in hours, not miles, since I almost spend more time parked at the curb than on the road... how do we assess and measure our fuel usage on this Hours Per Gallon basis, and then compare it apples-to-apples to petroleum diesel, which is usually measured on MPG basis? What I want to do is create a level playing field so we can honestly assess efficiency and emissions, on a real-world basis, but with scientific method. I don't want to inadvertently bias the testing against WVO, nor do I want to have such a pro-veggie test that we ignore some result that should cause us all caution. (ie- If we are creating *more* pollution in some way, we should know, so we can take steps to fix it!) My hope is that with an honest test we can PROVE that SVO/WVO is the way to go. My second hope is that if the test proves otherwise, we can use the results to come up with a solution. So, any ideas on what needs to be measured or tested, and how? I need to get a good feel for this, before I make a written proposal to one of the universities... Thanks in advance! -Joel R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS- I am on the digest version, and run my own biz, so I probably won't read or respond to your messages right away... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Re: Jatropha oil as household energy
Another cross-post, from the Stoves list, to underscore a point I keep making, that yield isn't the only thing that counts. The best oil crop doesn't exist except in theory. In practice, it depends on local factors. Dr Karve's letter from India demonstrates this as far as yield is concerned. Even if a particular crop does grow well locally and yields more, it still might not be the best choice - how it fits in with local cropping patterns, what other uses it or other crops might have that might have local value, what local growers are accustomed to and have existing skills for, and what they themselves prefer might all be more important than mere yield. A wide range of available options is needed to find the best crop for any given situation, and the crop or crops that are already being grown there have big advantages over any new crop that would have to be introduced. These are conservative figures, but they do give a comparison of yields: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vegetable oil yields, characteristics Best Keith From: A.D. Karve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Jatropha oil as household energy (forwarding Henning) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:29:28 +0530 Dear Mr. Seaver, I have conducted field experiments on both castor and Jatropha. I had already mentioned in a previous E-mail, that Jatropha was tested rather widely in India and was given up because it was not found to be as high yielding as the traditional oil crops in India. I do not know how it behaves in other countries, but under our agroclimatic and edaphic conditions, Jatropha produces much more vegetative matter than fruits. At harvest, one has to search for the occasional fruit hidden behind all the foliage that this plant produces. It is found all over India as a wild plant. India has some 25 uncultivated species of trees that yield non-edible oil. The seed of the wild trees is collected by villagers and sold to merchants attending the weekly village markets, but no farmer would ever think of growing them as a crop, because all of them are lower yielding than the cultivated oil plants such as peanut, soybean, sunflower, safflower, sesame, various mustards and rapes, coconut, etc. Among the seasonal oilseeds, hybrid castor is the highest yielding (2.5 tonnes oil per ha), but it is not an edible oil. The highest yield of edible oil, also about 2.5 tonnes per ha, is obtained from coconut. Oil palm, which yields 6 tonnes of oil per hectare in Malaysia, was tested and given up as low yielding under Indian conditions. Yours A.D.Karve Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
Hello Reinhard Dear Andrew Hoppin, It sounds interesting. I prefer ther use of straight plant oil (unmodified) instead of biodiesel. But anyway you need a lot of oil. And I think the oil from perennial plants give a higher net yield. So I am promoting the plant Jatropha curcas, or phisic nut, a shrub which grows in tropical or subtropical regions with more than 600 mm of rainfall. The oil you can use directly in modified diesel engines, or as bio-diesel. In the bio-diesel case you also need big amounts of alcohol (methanol ar aethanol), and you will end up in a centralised technology (economy f scale). Why do you say that? I see other Germans and Europeans also say that when comparing biodiesel to straight vegetable oil fuel. SVO decentralized, biodiesel centralized. It just isn't true, as thousands upon thousands of small-scale, localized biodieselers can attest, in many countries, including Germany. At the Biofuel list at the moment there's an interesting discussion on just this subject: biodiesel and the need to decentralize energy production. Nobody is suggesting that biodiesel production need be centralized, quite the opposite. On the other hand, there are centralized factories in Europe producing straight vegetable oil refined as fuel. Both biodiesel and straight vegetable oil can be either centralized or decentralized, it is not a valid comparison between them. You can make high-quality biodiesel in your kitchen, many people do. Making biodiesel does require alcohol and a catalyst and some minimal equipment, but no specialized knowledge. It's easy and doesn't take much time. In the US, and many other countries, virgin vegetable oil (unused, uncooked) is more expensive than petro-diesel. Biodiesel made from waste oil (3 to 4 billion gallons of waste oil a year in the US), including all costs, works out at less than 60c a gallon, much cheaper than petro-diesel. High-quality biodiesel can easily be made from very poor quality waste oil which is probably not suitable for use as fuel in a straight vegetable oil system. I'm NOT saying that biodiesel is better than SVO, but some of the false claims of the SVO people put me in this false position when trying to correct them. This is fairly typical: The [biodiesel] process to chemically change the structure of Pure Plant Oil is a very costly operation and requires a lot of energy, as it removes the glycerine substituting it by methanol as well as adding other chemicals, making the end-product poisonous and equally hazardous as fossil diesel fuel. It's not costly, it's not energy-intensive, biodiesel is less toxic than table salt, about the same as vegetable oil, and to say it's as hazardous as fossil diesel fuel is just ignorant, or worse: it's MUCH cleaner burning, it's CO2 neutral, the emissions carry 90% less cancer risk, and its production is non-polluting. And it's better for the engine. Biodiesel does have some distinct advantages over SVO: it can be used in any diesel motor without modification, whereas SVO is not suitable for DI diesels short of a full-scale Elsbett conversion; using biodiesel is exactly the same as using petro-diesel - no starting on one fuel and then switching to another, and the same when stopping; and biodiesel has a great deal of research to support it, and many millions of road miles, whereas SVO is not thoroughly researched, and even authoritative emissions data is lacking. Nonetheless, I see the two fuels as complementary - the usual two-tank heated SVO systems make best sense when you use biodiesel as the start-stop fuel, and poor-quality oil that's not suitable for SVO use can be turned into biodiesel for this purpose. Of the two, I think SVO needs more of our support than biodiesel does - the more people use SVO systems, the more rapidly the technology will mature, and the more pressure can be put on the car manufacturers to provide motors that are suitable for SVO use without major conversion. The new generation of clean diesels are all DIs, not suitable for SVO without major conversion, and that should change. But promoting SVO at the expense of biodiesel, especially by unfair or unfounded criticism, or mis- and dis-information, is wrongheaded. The opposition is petro-diesel, not biodiesel. The last time this issue (non-issue) came up at the Biofuel list (every full moon?) one member commented that the argument between SVO and biodiesel is a false argument that shouldn't be allowed to exist. I very much agree. My short list above of biodiesel's advantages are areas that SVO people need to address. More widespread use will bring more research, and use is growing very rapidly. In fact someone on the vegoil-diesel list has just proposed setting up proper emissions tests for SVO in the US. My hope is that with an honest test we can PROVE that SVO/WVO is the way to go. My second hope is that if the test proves otherwise, we can use the results
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
Hallo Keith, Thank you for your excellent arguments. Why do I prefer SVO? 1) I worked 15 years in Africa promoting renewable energies. There the use of SVO is much easier than bio-diesel, because the only tool you need is an oil press. The extraction of oil and its purification is just simpler than a chemical process. So the villagers can produce the fuel for the engine to drive a flower mill in the village with a village technology. The production of biodiesel is more complex and you need raw materials and technology and know how. I think in the developing countries bio-diesel will be produced in the towns. 2) I agree with you, that biodiesel is a good method to use waste veg oil as an energy source. But if the biodiesel prduction will grow and leaves the kitchens, i. e. if it will be produced commercially, the economy of scale will have a big influence on the price. If you think of the kitchen technology, you don't calculate the price of labor, do you? 3) I agree with you, that both methods are good, and both should be supported. I try to argue against fossil fuel, not against bio-diesel. But if possible, I prefer SVO. Reinhard Henning Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello Reinhard Dear Andrew Hoppin, It sounds interesting. I prefer ther use of straight plant oil (unmodified) instead of biodiesel. But anyway you need a lot of oil. And I think the oil from perennial plants give a higher net yield. So I am promoting the plant Jatropha curcas, or phisic nut, a shrub which grows in tropical or subtropical regions with more than 600 mm of rainfall. The oil you can use directly in modified diesel engines, or as bio-diesel. In the bio-diesel case you also need big amounts of alcohol (methanol ar aethanol), and you will end up in a centralised technology (economy f scale). Why do you say that? I see other Germans and Europeans also say that when comparing biodiesel to straight vegetable oil fuel. SVO decentralized, biodiesel centralized. It just isn't true, as thousands upon thousands of small-scale, localized biodieselers can attest, in many countries, including Germany. At the Biofuel list at the moment there's an interesting discussion on just this subject: biodiesel and the need to decentralize energy production. Nobody is suggesting that biodiesel production need be centralized, quite the opposite. On the other hand, there are centralized factories in Europe producing straight vegetable oil refined as fuel. Both biodiesel and straight vegetable oil can be either centralized or decentralized, it is not a valid comparison between them. You can make high-quality biodiesel in your kitchen, many people do. Making biodiesel does require alcohol and a catalyst and some minimal equipment, but no specialized knowledge. It's easy and doesn't take much time. In the US, and many other countries, virgin vegetable oil (unused, uncooked) is more expensive than petro-diesel. Biodiesel made from waste oil (3 to 4 billion gallons of waste oil a year in the US), including all costs, works out at less than 60c a gallon, much cheaper than petro-diesel. High-quality biodiesel can easily be made from very poor quality waste oil which is probably not suitable for use as fuel in a straight vegetable oil system. I'm NOT saying that biodiesel is better than SVO, but some of the false claims of the SVO people put me in this false position when trying to correct them. This is fairly typical: The [biodiesel] process to chemically change the structure of Pure Plant Oil is a very costly operation and requires a lot of energy, as it removes the glycerine substituting it by methanol as well as adding other chemicals, making the end-product poisonous and equally hazardous as fossil diesel fuel. It's not costly, it's not energy-intensive, biodiesel is less toxic than table salt, about the same as vegetable oil, and to say it's as hazardous as fossil diesel fuel is just ignorant, or worse: it's MUCH cleaner burning, it's CO2 neutral, the emissions carry 90% less cancer risk, and its production is non-polluting. And it's better for the engine. Biodiesel does have some distinct advantages over SVO: it can be used in any diesel motor without modification, whereas SVO is not suitable for DI diesels short of a full-scale Elsbett conversion; using biodiesel is exactly the same as using petro-diesel - no starting on one fuel and then switching to another, and the same when stopping; and biodiesel has a great deal of research to support it, and many millions of road miles, whereas SVO is not thoroughly researched, and even authoritative emissions data is lacking. Nonetheless, I see the two fuels as complementary - the usual two-tank heated SVO systems make best sense when you use biodiesel as the start-stop fuel, and poor-quality oil that's not suitable for SVO use can be turned into
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
Hi again Reinhard Hallo Keith, Thank you for your excellent arguments. Why do I prefer SVO? Well, again, it depends on the situation and the circumstances. I prefer them both. The Elsbett conversion's a good solution now, then the question falls away - you can use petro-diesel, SVO or biodiesel, or any blend of the three (as long as you've replaced the rubber bits in the fuel system), just switch on and go. We both like Elsbett, eh? :-) 1) I worked 15 years in Africa promoting renewable energies. There the use of SVO is much easier than bio-diesel, because the only tool you need is an oil press. The extraction of oil and its purification is just simpler than a chemical process. So the villagers can produce the fuel for the engine to drive a flower mill in the village with a village technology. I've been involved in 3rd World rural development work for a long time, in a variety of roles, from ground-level up. And I'm still involved in it, with Journey to Forever, for the foreseeable future. We don't regard biodiesel production as something only for the towns. When we first got interested in it a few years ago we thought it ought to be possible to produce it in a village setting, either largely or entirely from local resources. I think this is true - if not entirely from locally available, renewable resources, then, if it seems a favourable technology in that context, the cost and benefit of importing what's required would have to be considered in depth. Whether or not we'll be promoting its production in villages depends on the particular village in question. SVO is of course another option. Whether it's a better option or not - well, I don't believe in that kind of approach. Anyway, SVO might be suitable for use in low-tech diesel motors for power and generation etc, but for other applications, for example, transport, which may or may not be required, the need for an SVO conversion or a two-tank heating system has to be balanced against the difficulties of local provision of the chemicals needed for biodiesel, if there are any such difficulties. One or the other, or neither, or both. The production of biodiesel is more complex and you need raw materials and technology and know how. Six of one and half a dozen of the other, Reinhard. I think in the developing countries bio-diesel will be produced in the towns. Perhaps so, mostly. I'm not sure that's the case in the US, Canada, Australia, Argentina, Chile, India... I think home-brewers and small coops and so on are making millions of gallons a year already. 2) I agree with you, that biodiesel is a good method to use waste veg oil as an energy source. But if the biodiesel prduction will grow and leaves the kitchens, i. e. if it will be produced commercially, the economy of scale will have a big influence on the price. I think too much is made of economies of scale, on the one hand, and even if so I don't think it will have much to offer many of the niche markets now being exploited by small-scale local operations, where transport costs would have to be added, and many other factors have to be taken into account. For instance, with a farmers coop producing fuel for on-farm use from their own crops, they'll probably not be interested in buying a centrally produced commercial product whatever the price. There are many such factors at work. Even in the worst case, local community self-reliance might be something worth paying for, or at least worth sacrificing an apparent cash saving for. And of course there are many ways of off-setting production costs, whereas cash is cash. I said you can easily make it in your kitchen, and you can, but the typical set-up centres on one or more 55-gal drums, in a garage, shed or backyard, and this can easily be turned into quite a sophisticated set-up that's capable of quite high production rates. If you think of the kitchen technology, you don't calculate the price of labor, do you? Quite a few people do count it. If you have a look at some of the processors at our site that people are using, they don't spend much time at it. Set it going and come back later, quite often. On the other hand, I think you're making a presumption about SVO being free of labour costs. Where SVO - virgin oil - is very cheap that might be the case, but where WVO is used there are time and labour costs involved too. Where the SVO is home-grown and pressed on-site, it might well need deacidifying, degumming, refining before use as SVO. There's not a lot in it. Michael Allen's just been finding in Thailand that crude palm oil isn't suitable for SVO use, and that's what they've got - replacing the crop isn't an option. I really think you need both options, and more. 3) I agree with you, that both methods are good, and both should be supported. I try to argue against fossil fuel, not against bio-diesel. But if possible, I prefer SVO. It's a choice. The SVO page at Journey
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
I am interested in learning more about this comment on palm oil SVO experience. In a message dated 10/7/2002 9:41:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Allen's just been finding in Thailand that crude palm oil isn't suitable for SVO use, and that's what they've got - replacing the crop isn't an option. I really think you need both options, and more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am interested in learning more about this comment on palm oil SVO experience. Michael wrote: If it gets reasonably unviscous at 75-80 deg C, maybe it's more suited to a dual-fuel pre-heated SVO system. Not for DIs though. Tried that. An agricutural diesel working on a fixed load with this SVO runs for about 300 hours before it croaks. Curiously, one result is the thickening of the lube-oil to a tarry viscous material. Sound familiar?. Incidentally, using the commercial de-acidifying process and a phosphoric degumming stage makes the refined SVO a much more suitable fuel. Under identical conditions, it gave over 500 hours and was only stopped because stearin precipitation in the fuel lines and filter gave problems (including spark-erosion of the piston head). http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=1347list=BIOFUELS-BIZ Info-Archive at NNYTech Keith In a message dated 10/7/2002 9:41:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Allen's just been finding in Thailand that crude palm oil isn't suitable for SVO use, and that's what they've got - replacing the crop isn't an option. I really think you need both options, and more. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
New to this list, and extremely impressed with the lucid, creative, and altruistic ideas being generated and shared. Way to go! I'm on board with all the compelling environmental motivations for using biodiesel, but to be honest what drove me here (after years of working as an environmental scientist in other realms and being only casually interested in energy), was the geopolitics of fossil fuels... The prospect of making fossil fuels obsolete before they become truly in short supply I believe could spare the world a lot of bloodshed, and could help instill confidence that our respective governments are executing their foreign policy on the basis of reasons other than jousting for control of limited energy reserves. The idea of contributing to efforts to this end greatly inspires me. So, with that inspiration, I've decided to take on organizing a community-driven project of modest scope but dramatic potential that will contribute in direct or indirect ways to events or actions that reduce the dependence of industrialized nations on fossil fuels. Outreach efforts about biodiesel seem to me like they could be a possible great choice (petitioning fast-food chains to make their waste available? getting New York City government vehicle fleets to use biodiesel?), but you on this list know far more than I about what specific projects could make a difference, and I respectfully and eagerly await your input. Andrew Hoppin N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.226.4550 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] cars in the developing world
Here in the Philippines, light diesel trucks and vans, and even diesel cars, are very popular. Their fuel is somewhat cheaper, and their engines are longer-lived. Most of the commercial jeepneys that provide in-and-around transport services in cities are diesels. Unfortunately, many diesels are fitted with oversize injectors or their pumps are jiggered to increase delivery and get more power. This of course causes soot formation, which never happens to a properly tuned diesel except during high load operation. As a result, the intelligentsia (ignorant people with political influence) are putting pressure on the authorities to persecute diesels. The same pressure exerted on commercial operators to perform proper maintenance would have a favorable effect, but banning diesels will increase pollution by replacing diesels with less efficient spark-ignition engines, which can also tolerate much more neglect than diesels before ceasing to run entirely. I keep a count of smoke-belchers (blue smoke and black smoke) and despite the cowboy jeepney operators the majority of the offenders are still gasoline engines. When a diesel's rings and valves wear beyond a certain point, there isn't enough compression to keep them running; at that point, they HAVE to be fixed. Gasoline engine operators just put in thicker oil, retune for a richer mixture and go on polluting. Marc de Piolenc Iligan City, Philippines Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: [vegoil-diesel] Criteria for studying Veggie fuel
Cross-post from the Vegoil-Diesel list. Keith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Prairie Dog [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:26:19 -0500 Subject: [vegoil-diesel] Criteria for studying Veggie fuel Hello, all! Okay, after reading (and even posting my own) many requests for info on the emissions and efficiencies of SVO/WVO, as compared to petroleum diesel, I have decided to do something about the lack of comprehensive info, and fight the conflicting and varied results that are available. (Invisible waves of applause buffet the internet... or my own conceited mind...) I run Cummins diesels in my recycling route trucks in the midwest (USA), and plan on converting them to WVO. I'd like to have one of our local universities or tech colleges (at least two are possibly interested in this idea) monitor the trucks' performance and emissions. I'd have them look at wear and tear issues of the engine and injector pumps, emissions, efficiency, etc... I'm gonna smell like a french-fry! I plan on it being a test of preheated (probably electrically) restaurant WVO using a two-tank system, year-round. I've also got a spare (currently dead) engine that if I can find enough parts to get it running again, I might donate to them to revive and use as a bench-test mule for examining different fuels, temperatures of fuel, etc... Okay, this where you all come in: I need to know what all to ask them to monitor, and how. Also, what should we do to create a baseline before the test? (Photographs of the valves and cylinders? Pressure tests at certain points in the fuel system? Temperature output at the exhaust manifold? Horsepower at the rear wheels? Of a 20,000 pound vehicle??!?) I have a few problems that make things difficult: my fuel usage is measured in hours, not miles, since I almost spend more time parked at the curb than on the road... how do we assess and measure our fuel usage on this Hours Per Gallon basis, and then compare it apples-to-apples to petroleum diesel, which is usually measured on MPG basis? What I want to do is create a level playing field so we can honestly assess efficiency and emissions, on a real-world basis, but with scientific method. I don't want to inadvertently bias the testing against WVO, nor do I want to have such a pro-veggie test that we ignore some result that should cause us all caution. (ie- If we are creating *more* pollution in some way, we should know, so we can take steps to fix it!) My hope is that with an honest test we can PROVE that SVO/WVO is the way to go. My second hope is that if the test proves otherwise, we can use the results to come up with a solution. So, any ideas on what needs to be measured or tested, and how? I need to get a good feel for this, before I make a written proposal to one of the universities... Thanks in advance! -Joel R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS- I am on the digest version, and run my own biz, so I probably won't read or respond to your messages right away... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cars in the developing world
From: Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Marc, am also from the Philippines. Are you now in Iligan City? How do you cope up with the smoke that comes out of diesel engines? My friend uses an additive and it reduces smoke. _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
I am working with my local volunteer fire department to get them to buy a diesel for their next truck. This way, we could run the truck on biodiesel. Andrew Hoppin wrote: , with that inspiration, I've decided to take on organizing a community-driven project of modest scope but dramatic potential that will contribute in direct or indirect ways to events or actions that reduce the dependence of industrialized nations on fossil fuels. Outreach efforts about biodiesel seem to me like they could be a possible great choice (petitioning fast-food chains to make their waste available? getting New York City government vehicle fleets to use biodiesel?), but you on this list know far more than I about what specific projects could make a difference, and I respectfully and eagerly await your input. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The yummy corn fails animal tests
Sorry to go back to an old thread with a slightly off topic request, but I would really like to have the data on impaired immune response in animals fed Starlink corn. Could anybody give me a reference? Thanks. Beth have --- kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The corn offered was Starlink which is not approved for human consumption in US. There is a glut of it since they can't sell much of it and if humans in Africa eat it, oh well. Not against our laws. So for Americans to pretend this was an altruistic act it shows what sons of Belial they really are. Just like the sons of Belial that created it. Animals that eat it demonstrate impaired immune function. http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:EaWGcsULhu0C:ens.lycos.com/ens/aug2001/ 2001L-08-08-03.html+starlink+cornhl=enie=UTF-8 StarLink corn, a variety genetically engineered to produce its own pesticide, is not approved for human consumption because it may be a human food allergen. Last year, the nonprofit Genetically Engineered Food Alert showed that StarLink had contaminated the human food supply, forcing the recall of more than 300 food products and costing farmers, food processors and the grain industry millions of dollars in lost profit. If there was any justice the Frankenfood creators would be ordered to pay the losses. After all it is their creation and it is loose. Kirk -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:45 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: The BBC has been fooled... Motie, At 10:43 PM 10/3/2002 +, you wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for helping me to see how others have MIS-perceived our intents. US perceptions of cultural differences may have contributed to the tension, but perhaps misunderstandings based on cultural differences are not all one-sided? For sure not and if you deal with experienced educated people it does not normally happen, in some parts of the world some of them would even understand the custom of handshaking with the right hand. He would probably still think that foreigners are a dirty bunch, but he would shake your hand and try to not think what it have been used for. If the recipients of the food are insulted over receiving 'Pig Food', can you also see how the US is insulted when starving people refuse to eat the same food we eat? No wonder that we have so much wars. If a dinner guest at my home were to refuse to eat the same food served to the rest of my family, I would have to assume he wasn't very hungry after all. If I heard later that he was angry about the fare offered, I seriously doubt if I would offer another dinner invitation to him. I would also be less than tolerant of any future hunger complaints from him. If you offer a nice ham to a true Muslim or a Jew, they are for sure not going to accept it. This may be perceived as arrogance on my part, but life is made up of choices. I would not support any further corn shipments to them. They will have to eat corn or starve. They do eat and feel humiliated, not much choice. If I were to throw a rope to a drowning man, and he refused to grab it because it wasn't made from new Hemp, I wouldn't bother to look for another rope for him. Well, let us only help educated people, who at least have read about the funny habits of the Americans. It would be cheaper also, because it is not so many of them. Motie Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 9/30/2002 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please
[biofuel] Re: seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working with my local volunteer fire department to get them to buy a diesel for their next truck. This way, we could run the truck on biodiesel. In all honesty, this is the last place I would put my biodiesel. The manufacturer is not going to warranty BD and if by chance it never makes it to a fire, the fuel is going to be the first to be blamed. I would never want that kind of liability, let them be able to blame the local fuel station for that one.
RE: [biofuel] The yummy corn fails animal tests
-Original Message- From: Beth Rosen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 9:48 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] The yummy corn fails animal tests Sorry to go back to an old thread with a slightly off topic request, but I would really like to have the data on impaired immune response in animals fed Starlink corn. Could anybody give me a reference? Thanks. Beth Google starlink +immune --2370 hits Hagelin has a good overview. He recounts several instances of unforseen GM problems http://www.arlingtoninstitute.org/futuredition/Starlink_2.htm Who gave the biotech companies the right to threaten our food and environment? The Clinton-Gore administration and our 'Republicrat' Congress, awash in biotech money. We need mandatory labeling and safety testing of genetically engineered foods, plus a moratorium on the release of these experimental lifeforms into the environment until proven safe. John Hagelin's message is urgent and of utmost importance. It is essential that the American people act without delay to preserve their own health and that of future generations. http://www.thecampaign.org/newsupdates/sept00r.htm Dr. Arpad Pusztai, whose findings unleashed controversy over the safety of Genetically-Modified (GM) foods two years ago, has said that detailed studies into the effects of GM foods were essential before they were permitted into the food chain I think he was fired and a peer review vindicated him. http://131.104.232.9/ffnet/2002/4-2002/functional_foodnet_april_30.htm News coverage of food biotechnology, which first appeared as a hot news topic in 1999, doubled between then and 2001, making food biotechnology the most reported single food and health issue in the survey. A sizeable 12 percent of the stories monitored dealt with biotechnology, primarily, say the researchers, because of allegations that allergic reactions were due to StarLink corn, which was accidentally mixed into the food supply PDF]Biotechnology : An overview File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat ... Some of these will stimulate an impaired immune response in an individual who is already infected with that organism and has mounted an inadequate immune ... www.eib.org/pub/divers/pjbio_en.pdf Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Energy challenges
Thank you for your appreciation MM and a very well balanced answer. When I first got it I wanted to answer immediately and expand a few things, but my mother in law fell sick (88 years of age and a fantastic lady) and it must wait a little bit. I was thinking about dismount the subject and dividing it to several sub subjects, then have each discussed by us and hopefully many others on the list. Afterwards I like to mount it and see where it took us. I will start with this as soon as I can. It can be a fairly large joint project and I will hopefully learn a lot. Hope that I can put together something relevant when I come to it. Hakan At 09:07 AM 10/6/2002 -0700, you wrote: I started out, in thinking about a posting on this, but discovered that it might end up in a book. I will therefore only start with a couple of points and try to expand it when I have time. Good point. Sometimes I or others open a topic than is bigger than we imply or think about. In such cases, if I see it, I feel that I want to acknowledge the importance of the topic by responding, but it's too big and I end up feeling obligated to spend too much time too quickly. Maybe we are going to see an other move from the cities to rural areas. I've been thinking this, locally here in the city where I live, if we fail to see further progress on dealing with local pollution, particularly of water, and of time management (there is only so much sitting-in-one's-car-in-traffic that I think one can take). 2. The electricity production is an other ball game, because they would go Sun/Wind/Hydro/Nuclear on both short and long term. The major problems here are peak demands and they cannot be solved without solving some usage problems. I agree that it will be very exciting to see progress on production by saving. But there is another issue you allude to which is peak demand production, and interestingly, around here, this involves diesel. This was much-discussed in last year's energy crisis, that some diesel generators had to be used sometimes, as a last-ditch sort of thing. Just a point, off-topic. 3. Heating should go Bio Fuels and or Bio Mass. Cooling can also do that, but we should start to talk about drying instead of cooling, the human body will take care of the cooling, if the air is dry enough. To change the usage are several massive tasks and takes a long time, we have some experiences of this. Passive solar power will also play an important part. Your points make sense. One of the reasons I ask about biodiesel use for at-home or local distributed energy electricity or other immediately-useable energy production is that if one has it ready-at-hand for transportation, I suppose it could also serve well for other household and local energy needs, such as electricity production, cooking, heating, cooling, drying, etc. The fact that it's ready-at-hand being a contributor to an argument in its favor, with other arguments against it such as the fact that it's more dear for transportation, and other things can be used for those other energy requirements. 4. Developing countries have a chance here, if they realize that copying the models and habits of the developed countries only will bring them in trouble. They have the advantage of starting on a clean piece of paper and have much more to loose than gain in accepting the influence from global corporations and developed countries, which by the way is a threat of US interests. Although I've been a somewhat-uncaring pied-piper cheerleader for bringing US style stock-market investing to worldwide alternative energy interests, I am going to have to modify or change that because I do not think this is always beneficial to the parties involved. Bringing stock-market-mania to the latest car invention or energy inventor or community is not necessarily the only way or the best way to get a community more set up with improved and cleaner and more convenient energy usage and access. 5. Efficient energy usage is key for the future, we cannot continue to use energy and just wasting more than 50% for nothing more than stupidities. It is much more to gain on efficient usage than improvements of efficiency in energy production. The problem here is that we measure our economic successes (GNP) in how much we waste, not how efficient we use energy. It sounds stupid, but who said that humans were smart? I think that *in part* our profligate wasteful attitude toward energy could be somewhat helped by and when it becomes more financially dear. For example, here in San Diego, while the energy crisis was painful, we did get much more conscious about conservation very quickly when our prices came up, and we made some progress. Not enough, to be sure. We were set in our ways and one doesn't change an already-industrialized set-in-its-ways community so easily. But there was some evidence that a pricing and supply crisis would result in some needed conservation.
[biofuel] Re: seeking ideas for biodiesel-related outreach projects
k5farms wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working with my local volunteer fire department to get them to buy a diesel for their next truck. This way, we could run the truck on biodiesel. In all honesty, this is the last place I would put my biodiesel. The manufacturer is not going to warranty BD and if by chance it never makes it to a fire, the fuel is going to be the first to be blamed. I would never want that kind of liability, let them be able to blame the local fuel station for that one. From my calculations, there is enough used grease in most towns to run the local school districts fleets, the fuel doesn't sit around without being used and generally have good maintenance. Giving the kids cleaner air while on the way to school seems more important to me. Most generally, talking with the transportation director at the school system about what you are trying to do, he will more than likely give you a super great deal on an up and coming out of service bus that you could prove your Point with??? Not saying BD is bad for fire trucks, just the liability. Some of these diesel fire trucks have been sitting around for 40 years, going and putting BD in them is going to clean out alot of varnish etc.. I think you're right, and right about the varnish too. If it's a new truck maybe, but there's still the warranty issue. A couple of months ago the NBB was stating that no auto manufacturer's warranty was voided by the use of biodiesel, now they don't seem to be saying that any more, and posting a much longer document that's a lot more cagey. If it were a new vehicle, though, it might be possible to make an arrangement with the manufacturer, they'd probably be sympathetic (as long as it was attested ASTM-standard stuff). I agree with you about school buses too, especially as this is a main point of attack by the diesel-bashing lobby. And it's a good publicity spinner, especially in the local papers. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Hybrid Diesel Motorcycle
Has anyone heard anything more about the diesel 650 enduro that Kawasaki was developing for the military? I'm mostly interested in whether it'll be offered to the public? Ed - Lotsa diesel bikes here, by the way: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html The new military Kawasaki for NATO and the US is the most interesting one, IMO. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mike Pelly biodiesel story in Seattle Times
On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 06:04 PM, murdoch wrote: The political capital to be gained by politicians embracing and pushing for this is significant. We have not only ... 2. improving waste-disposal First we should make sure that waste feedstocks are a full peer of virgin feedstocks. The texts of some recent bills in the U.S. Senate (S.1942, S.1979) and House (H.R.4843) define biodiesel as: The term 'biodiesel' means the monoalkyl esters of long chain fatty acids derived from virgin vegetable oils for use in compressional-ignition (diesel) engines. Such term shall include esters derived from vegetable oils from corn, soybeans, sunflower seeds, cottonseeds, canola, crambe, rapeseeds, safflowers, flaxseeds, rice bran, and mustard seeds. The bills in question propose tax incentives for biodiesel producers and buyers. It doesn't sound like WVO- or animal-derived biodiesel is actually illegal to produce or sell, but certainly the tax advantages seem centered around virgin oils. Not sure of the status of these bills--I guess I didn't pay enough attention in school to interpret the records on thomas.loc.gov! Thanks all, these are great discussions. Dan Hale, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Opel Concept Car
Switch this to WVO or biodiesel even and you have really got something! http://www.autointell.com/News-2002/October-2002/October-2002-1/October-02-02-p5.htm Nearly 100 MPG Nearly 160 MPH H _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] oil furnace
greetings - i'm interested in using biodiesel in my oil furnace this winter - is there any modification i need to make to the furnace? i won't be burning homebrewed biodiesel, as i'm not really set up for that, but there is a company in my area (believe it or not) who sells the stuff at their gasstation for diesel engines, and who delivers! so this is commercial grade diesel, which as i understand it is interchangeable with #2 heating oil... any advise you could give would be much appreciated thx dj Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid Diesel Motorcycle
I stay in touch with the manufacturer and yes there are plans to offer a model to the public. I will email the list and yourself with an update soon. In a message dated 10/7/2002 12:49:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has anyone heard anything more about the diesel 650 enduro that Kawasaki was developing for the military? I'm mostly interested in whether it'll be offered to the public? Ed [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The yummy corn fails animal tests
Sorry to go back to an old thread with a slightly off topic request, but I would really like to have the data on impaired immune response in animals fed Starlink corn. Could anybody give me a reference? Thanks. Beth Hello Beth Maybe it's not that off-topic - several people have said US corn is a poor crop, that it's not used to feed hungry people as alleged but as livestock feed for the rich countries, that there's a huge surplus of it anyway and it's the cheapest thing to burn in your home heater, and that it's not exactly the best choice for ethanol production. Along with objections to GMOs, and StarLink. I think sustainable agriculture is a necessary adjunct to biofuels, and US corn isn't a good example of sustainable agriculture. Someone asked where he could buy StarLink to burn as heating fuel, since he thought it must be cheap. In 2000 the USDA ordered Aventis to buy the complete StarLink harvest of the year to keep it out of the human food chain, and it's now no longer being grown. The EPA has since decided that it will only approve genetically engineered crops for animals that are also safe for people to eat. Which seems rather obvious - what perhaps isn't so obvious is that it isn't yet established that any GM crops are safe for anything to eat. As the GM companies' assurances and promises fail one by one, there's growing pressure for a moratorium to gather reliable information. The idea of the substantial equivalence of GM crops is obviously inappropriate - just a ploy by an industry-overfriendly bureaucracy, where the precautionary principle was obviously required, and still is. There's also evidence that GM crops might be inherently unsafe. Have a look at the ISIS site for more information on this: http://www.i-sis.org.uk/ I'm not sure about StarLink causing immune damage to livestock. I've seen it said before and asked for references, but none were forthcoming. In the US 44 people suffered allergic reactions after eating products containing StarLink. Subsequent government tests were not reliable, but again the precautionary principle rules here, or should. There's this though, if you haven't seen it: After years of reports that animals on Mid-West farms were shunning GE corn, a Dutch student in 2001 carried out feeding studies of GE corn and soya to mice and found significant weight loss and behavioral differences. http://organicconsumers.org/newsletter/BiodNews37.cfm Frankencorn And Mice: Another Cautionary Tale Concerned that industry and government have failed to carry out proper scientific studies on the safety of GE corn and other Frankenfoods, a young Dutch science student, Hinze Hogendoorn, recently decided to take matters into his own hands. Dr. Mae Wan-Ho, a British geneticist and world renowned critic of biotechnology, reported the results of this simple, yet remarkable animal-feeding experiment on her website www.i-sis.org in December 2001. Here are excerpts from Dr. Ho's report: A Dutch farmer left two piles of maize in a barn infested with mice, one pile GM (genetically modified), the other non-GM. The GM pile was untouched, while the non-GM pile was completely eaten up. Incredible! Young undergraduate Hinze Hogendoorn, from University College, Utrecht devised his own laboratory tests and confirmed the finding, and more. An activist group (Jongeren Milieu Aktief) presented the report Hinze has written to the Dutch parliament on December 11, 2001 and is featuring it on their new website (www.talk2000.nl). Hinze couldn't find a single scientific report on animals being tested for preference of GM versus non GM food on the web when he began. On extending his search to effects of GM foods on animals, he came across reports from companies developing GM foods, all declaring there were no adverse impacts. But he also came across independent researchers who have reported harmful effects, including Dr. Arpad Pusztai, who found GM potatoes damaged the kidney, thymus, spleen and gut of young rats. [Hinze] was stumped at first, because he would have needed to go through a lot of bureaucracy to experiment on animals. However, he managed to rescue 30 female six-week old mice bred to feed snakes from a herpetology centre. [Hinze gave] them a staple food along with the two foods [GM and non-GE corn and soya] that were to be compared, so they could really show their preference without being starved. Large cages were used so the mice had plenty of room to move around. At the beginning, all the mice were weighed before they were put into the cage[s].The mice had not eaten for some time, but amazingly, they [immediately] showed very definite food preferences [preferring the non GM corn and soya]. For the next [nine] week[s], Hinze continued to give the mice GM and non GM maize or soya chunks. the mice consumed 61% non GM and 39% GM food when given free choice. For the next experiment, Hinze tested for the [health] effects
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid Diesel Motorcycle
biofueledenergy wrote: I stay in touch with the manufacturer and yes there are plans to offer a model to the public. I will email the list and yourself with an update soon. Good news! Please do keep us informed. Best wishes Keith In a message dated 10/7/2002 12:49:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has anyone heard anything more about the diesel 650 enduro that Kawasaki was developing for the military? I'm mostly interested in whether it'll be offered to the public? Ed Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
