Re: [biofuel] Like to Introduce Myself - Ethanol Maker
Hey Keith! Will eagerly read and devour all ethanol info you or others can post; especially anything to do with ECM modification & who can be recommended to do mods to enable running ethanol on late model vehicles. Also nice to know one can still push a button and get an entertaining response out of Keith . even if we can't wean him off biodiesel. .lol Best... Dennis Nelson P.S. Keith, where can I find details on Mother Earth News waste oil burners? I thought they were a defunct publishing enterprise long ago. Still interested though. Might even get me to convert to BioD !! --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Hi Glenn! > > > >Just so you don't feel all alone here on the JTF > list, > >I'm also interersted in the distilling of ethanol. > >What type of equipment are you using? > > > >I'm not distilling at this point too many > >other projects to get through but am gathering > >information to make conversions for ECM equipped > >vehicles to make them in effect an FFV. > > > >Glad to see another ethanol devotee. If we get > enough > >of us maybe we can convert Keith and get him off > >biodiesel . hehehehhe. > > > >Best. > > > >Dennis Nelson > > :-) Well, you won't get me off biodiesel, but > there's no need to > "convert" me (arghhh! - into what? Mercy!). > > Ethanol is one of our projects this summer, at long > last, though > we've been pushing it for five years. Well, > hopefully this summer... > we don't always meet our deadlines, but we usually > get there in the > end. We really suffered through this last winter's > deep snows in our > old wood and paper traditional Japanese farmhouse > with its excellent, > um, all-directional fresh-air supply, and finally > finished our first > of two Mother Earth News waste oil burners (burning > WVO), one of the > previous summer's projects, just two days after > Spring broke out. :-( > > Anyway, there's whole bunch of things we have to do > with ethanol, > it'll definitely happen. For one thing, we have > these various small > 2-smoke spark-ignition machines, like weed-cutters, > a chain saw > (needs fixing) and so on, and we'd much rather get > them drunk than > have them guzzle dino. > > Also, we have a K-truck. Worth a look, this guy (?) > is right, no > doubt Americans would laugh at them, but I don't > think Japan would > get on too well without them. I really wonder if an > F250 or something > is that much more effective. > > http://moonstationfoxtrot.com/journalpics/ktrucks.html > Moon Station Foxtrot: K-Trucks > http://moonstationfoxtrot.com/ktrucks/index.html > K-TRUCKS > > 660cc, 4wd, they'll go anywhere, super-economical, > and very willing - > they heft an amazing amount of stuff. We have a 1988 > Mitsubishi, > smaller engine - they were 550cc until 1992 I think. > 79,000 km, nice > clean truck, had an easy life, price was about $1 > per cc, good deal. > Gasoline motor, needs ethanol. We love our K-truck > but we also love > the diesel TownAce, which has been running on B100 > JtF homebrew since > we got it, and loves it. Lot of other diesel motors > here too (not the > same house, we just moved, still old and traditional > but in much > better condition) - a tractor, two rotavators, a > standalone Yanmar > 350cc... No hope of us giving up BD any time soon. > > Best wishes > > Keith > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Like to Introduce Myself - Ethanol Maker
Hey Jonathan! Not too much better unless you can teach me the trick to deflate some of these people who can work the "magic" on ECM's. Seems to be an arrogant bunch to date. Reminds me of chimeneymasons . you have to slap them with a blank check from your checkbook in order to get them to pay attention to you. I don't remember treating my customers this way when I spun wrenches! Best Dennis Nelson --- Jonathan Dunlap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey now... > > I'm doing the same at this time. I like large > trucks, not the gas mileage. With an diesel engine > and Biodiesel I can have the best of both worlds. I > also would like to use another fuel for my cars. > Save some money and our Earth... What could be > better! > > Jonathan > > av snips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Glenn! > > Just so you don't feel all alone here on the JTF > list, > I'm also interersted in the distilling of ethanol. > What type of equipment are you using? > > I'm not distilling at this point too many > other projects to get through but am gathering > information to make conversions for ECM equipped > vehicles to make them in effect an FFV. > > Glad to see another ethanol devotee. If we get > enough > of us maybe we can convert Keith and get him off > biodiesel . hehehehhe. > > Best. > > Dennis Nelson > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile > phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list > address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > - > Yahoo! Groups Links > >To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > J.J.A.M., Inc. > Jonathan Lynden Dunlap > IS Network Systems Analyst > Your PC & Linux Specialist > P.O. Box 4209 > Inglewood, California 90309-4209 > 323-779-2752/Home > > > > > - > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Palm oil...
I have been lurking and learning for a while, now. As regards the oversupply of vegetable oil, a number of years ago, I was doing some agricultural research and livestock statistics, and noted that, at that time, there was quite a surplus of soybean oil. I asked a friend of mine, who was doing research on grains why the price of soybean oil did not come down. He said that it did not have to, that soybean oil was priced from the price of butter. At that time, in both the US and Canada, the price of butter was government supported. One of the major uses of soybean oil is margarine. The top-quality soft margarine were priced at 90 to 95% of the price of butter. The next level of margarines were priced at 80 to 85% of butter. Palm oil margarine and other cheap stuff was at about 50% of butter. Market experience has taught the margarine manufacturers that they can get away with this range of pricing. The next time you are in your local supermarket, you might want to check the price ranges. By the way, palm oil is a "saturated fat" from a dietary point of view. You do not want it. If the margarine does not list the source of vegetable oil, you probably do not want it. I have not seen any fish oil or lard based margarines for a long time, so you are probably safe there. > There is an oversupply of vegetable oil. I think > Indonesia has a palm > oil surplus, yet the price remains high (please > correct me if that's > wrong Achmad). Argentina also has an oil-surplus > problem, or recently > did have. With soy in the US, the main product is > the seedcake, used > as livestock feed (mostly for factory farms, yet > more unsustainable > industrialised so-called "agriculture"). The oil is > more or less a > by-product. In the US surplus soy oil is stored in > the world's > biggest tank farm, billions of gallons of it. Yet > that doesn't affect > the selling price, which remains high. These people > aren't interested > in energy, this is the totally mad world of > agricultural commodities > and subsidies. Nothing sustainable about that > either. > __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
Fahrenheit 9/11 (2004) RATING: FRESH READING: 85% A few featured Critics below http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Fahrenheit911-1133649/reviews.php?beg=0&int=123&creamcrop_limit=34&page=all "The movie's conclusions -- true or otherwise -- and highly emotional interviews with bereaved parents and injured soldiers will have a big impact on audiences around the world." -- Ian Youngs, BBC "Love it or hate it, Fahrenheit is unprecedented in its relentless and up-to-the-minute attack on a sitting president." -- Chris Vognar, DALLAS MORNING NEWS "One every American should see." -- Eric Harrison, HOUSTON CHRONICLE "Fahrenheit 9/11 isn't a cogent, revelatory expos, but a dizzying compendium of facts and opinions, wrapped up in a heartfelt, passionate, surprisingly moving package." -- Rene Rodriguez, MIAMI HERALD "A film every citizen of voting age in America should see." -- Tom Long, DETROIT NEWS "Not a film to be ignored." -- Bill Muller, ARIZONA REPUBLIC "The documentary's scathing attack on the war in Iraq and George W. Bush's presidency is informative, provocative, frightening, compelling, funny, manipulative and, most of all, entertaining." -- Claudia Puig, USA TODAY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Problem w/ F 911
In spite of all the positive reviews about Farenheit 911, there is one or two major flaws in it. First off, the positive is that it exposes the Bush regime and is any-war, although it points tghe finger at Saudi as the main culprits behind 9-11, and there is NO verifiable evidence to make that assumption. The danger here is that in toeing the official story line Michael Moore has set up Saudi as the next sucker for the ficticious war on terror, either willingly or unwitingly, so when the next fake terror happens it won't take much for the American public, having been prepared via F911, to fault Saudi and then that opens the door for the next oil grab. Also the fact that there is evidence of a foreign government's involvement in 9-11 but that information has been classified by the Bushies to protect their handlers has gone completely ignored. F911 is a mixed bag at best. Iy condemns an unjust war, and that is good. It sets up Saudi for the next part of the "war on terror" as soon as those responsible for 9-11 commit another act of mass murder and make sure there are more fake passports, like the first time, that lead stright to who they want to see, and thatnks to Mr Moore that path will lead to Saudi. There is no factual evidence that Saudi had anything whatsoever to do with 9-11. Robert Muller of the FBI stated publicly that the pristine passports (while the planes disintegrated) found on the streets of NYC after the towers fell were "professional forgeries", so we know who we are SUPPOSED to blame but there isn't any real hard evidence to actually back up the allegation. F911 is a step, but it leaves wide gapping holes that the spin doctors can drive trucks through come the next fake terror attack. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Cheney Backlash
For those with a political bent toward the current standings of the Bush gov't -- 6/29/04 Cheney just got booed at the Yankees game (I was thinking of retitling this: "Yankee fans tell Cheney 'go f*** yourself.'") http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_06_27_americablog_archive.html#108855885723398761 Cheney and the F word - 'toon http://www.politicalstrikes.com/images/ps1055.jpg What this has to do with biofuels is anyone's opinion but is does say something about this Oil-American. You bet Cheney got booed while Ronan Tynan sang "God Bless America." Cheney - close to the action for a change - had been down in a box seat next to the Yankee dugout with Rudy Giuliani and Gov. George Pataki. Now Cheney was upstairs in George Steinbrenner's box, and when they put his face on the big screen in the outfield, there was plenty of booing. It was about the only thing that stopped the real cheers for the Yankees at Yankee Stadium as they kept pouring it on against the Red Sox. Real game story last night? Cheney got booed. www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/207679p-179112c.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Godwin's Law, for those that don't know.
Hi Keith, Thanks for the info - and congratulations, you've just coined a tautology. Sam Hill is a euphemism for Hell. As to the philology of its origins, that would probably take up more space than did the recent discussion of Fahrenheit 9/11 Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Godwin's Law, for those that don't know. > Hi Bob > > >Forgive me, > > Certainly... > > >but what the Sam Hill is Godwin's Law? > > Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows > longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler > approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this > occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has > automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law > thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread > length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized > codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to > invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful. > http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g.html > > Who the hell is Sam Hill? :-) > > regards > > Keith > > > >Bob. > >- Original Message - > >From: "Tyler Arnold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: ; > >Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:16 AM > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Godwin's Law, for those that don't know. > > > > > > > I believe there's a corollary that says that deliberately invoking > >Godwin's law to kill a thread doesn't actually work... > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Bob Yates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Jun 29, 2004 10:03 AM > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [biofuel] Godwin's Law, for those that don't know. > > > > > > http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/Godwin_s_Law.html > > > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/ > > > > > > OK, the MIchael Moore thread is over, I killed it! > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuel project in rural india
Hello balaji, Thank you. I hope to visit him in August. regards, Sam balaji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Sam, Professor Udupi Shrinivasa is in the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Indian Institute of Science (IISc), Bangalore. Regards. balaji visit: http://accountsteacher.com biofuel - the ONLY option - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Glycerol Abundance???
I got some interesting article. Glycerol Abundance??? Glycerol constitutes about 10% of all animal and vegetable fats and oilsin the form of triglycerides. Crude glycerol is gennerally produced as by product-or coproduct-of fats and oil hydrolysis for the production of fatty acids and soaps, but synthetih glycerol, produced from propylene, is also widely used product. Crude glycerol is refined to meet United States Pharmacopeia (USP) grade requirements for use in most commercial applications. But since glycerol is also a by-product of biodiesel fuel production, with the steady growth since mid-1990s in biodiesel fuel consumption, many in the biodiesel community, such as Haas, foresee an eventual glycerol gut. A glycerol surplus would depress proces and possibly hinder future growth in biodiesel fuel consumption. Presently, biodiesel production is increasing rapidly. For the year 2000, biodiesel production in North America alone was about 2,000 tons. In 2002, it rose to 100,000 tons, and is estimated to have been about 250,000 tons for 2003. Its about 10 times that level for world production. Most Biodiesel is produced in Western Europe, where proces for petroleum fuels are higher than in the United States and where environmental awareness may also be greater. Although there are many uses for glycerol, the market is not growing rapidly. The amount of new glycerol on the market is going to be substantial, especially when you consider projected growth for Biodiesel production. Biodiesel fuel production is spurring cause for concern for glycerol markets. According to Cleveland, Ohio-based market research group Freedonia Group, Inc., demand for biodiesel is forecast to grow 30% in the United States to 100 million gallons by 2006, spurred by Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations requiring diesel fuel to reduce sulfuc content from the current 500 ppm minimum to 15 ppm by June 2006. Econimics is fundamental to the future of Biodiesel, since it is presently more expensive to produce than petroleum diesel, The impact of this higher cost may not be significant if it is used at blend rates of only a few percent in petroleum diesel. However, for any higher usage rates, it is vital to the future of this renewable fuel that its price be more competitive with that of conventional diesel fuel. By having markets for crude and refined glycerol, biodiesel producers stand a better chance of conferring economic viability upon their operation. inform magazine, March 2004 regards Ircham __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] weights and measures
I`m 58 years old,don`t recall learning any metrics in my years of school,but if your are so smart,tell me how many liters of meth. ,will 50lbs of caustic charge,useing the 3.5,per liter formula.(serious looking for an answer) Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: George, That was a good joke. LOL Hakan At 06:50 25/06/2004, you wrote: >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of metrics Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: weights and measures
Hi George 50 Lbs = 22.680 Kilograms = 22680 grams / 3.5 grams per Litre = 6480 Litres of methanol 1 Lb + 453.6 grams regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, george meredith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I`m 58 years old,don`t recall learning any metrics in my years of school,but if your are so smart,tell me how many liters of meth. ,will 50lbs of caustic charge,useing the 3.5,per liter formula. (serious looking for an answer) > > Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > George, > > That was a good joke. LOL > > Hakan > > > At 06:50 25/06/2004, you wrote: > >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of metrics > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] weights and measures
George, I am 63 years old and clearly remember that I learned the British system in school. It was in Sweden, who is using metric system, so I can only answer with certainty about the Swedish education. I have been told by many of my international friends that they also learned both systems. My memory might be wrong, because most of my friends are international and from countries that use metric. I cannot be absolutely sure that any British or American friends told me that they learned metric in school, it might be a difference in teaching capacity here. I do not know all conversions by heart, but if you have problems in looking it up, I can do it for you. Otherwise it is generally available in any physics handbook, at least in countries that use metric system. This especially since you mix weight and space measurement, need to know the specific weight for methanol also, to give an exact answer. I do not know the formula you are talking about and suspect that you are trying to pull my leg, by the mix of terms and states. Not really a meaningful and straight question. LOL Hakan At 05:59 01/07/2004, you wrote: >I`m 58 years old,don`t recall learning any metrics in my years of >school,but if your are so smart,tell me how many liters of meth. ,will >50lbs of caustic charge,useing the 3.5,per liter formula.(serious looking >for an answer) > >Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >George, > >That was a good joke. LOL > >Hakan > > >At 06:50 25/06/2004, you wrote: > >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of metrics Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ethanol: the answer to deadly pollution?
Hi, This story tonight from the same current affairs show that rubbished ethanol only a year ago Im not sure you could be more polarised in news reporting, is either all bad or all good. See my and others previous posts. I was so frustrated I sent them an email describing ethanol and biodiesel, they showed lots of images of diesel trucks pouring out their usual black smoke. http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/stories/1719.asp Regards Nick Ethanol: the answer to deadly pollution? 1 July 2004 Reporter: Ray Martin Twice as many people are dying as a result of exposure to fumes and exhaust from motor vehicles than are dying on our roads, according to a recent study. Some experts claim ethanol in petrol may be one of the answers to the deadly pollution ÷ but they say politics and the power of multinationals are putting the brakes on its use. ACA reports. Dr Ray Kearney, from the University of Sydney's medical school, says you don't have to be an oncologist to see how car emissions affect your lungs and your life. "If the cigarette smoke doesn't kill you, this will," he says. Currently, ethanol (or E10) is being trialed in North Queensland petrol bowsers. It's a by-product of sugar and locals say it's also a way to save a dying industry. For years, Queensland senator Ron Boswell has been beating the government's drum on ethanol. He's been beating so loudly he's been dubbed the Minister for Ethanol. Scientists estimate that a 10 percent ethanol amount in our petrol could mean a 30 to 40 percent reduction in the carcinogens that end up on our streets. "I'd have to agree with that; that bears out my research," says Ron. "We came up with exactly the same answers and for that reason alone, the health reason alone, it should be a winner." Like Ron, Queensland Premier Peter Beattie is a convert. Just back from Brazil, where cars run with a 25 percent ethanol mix in their petrol, Premier Beattie says ethanol makes for smarter politics and cleaner petrol. In Canberra, however, the politics of petrol are considered by advocates as a joke. But now, Alan Finlay, an engineer with the NRMA, is a new and powerful voice for ethanol and is quick to dismiss concern that it may cause damage to car engines. "No, there is no evidence that in blends up to 10 percent that it does cause any damage to engines," he says. "Certainly 10 percent ethanol blends can reduce some of the toxic emissions, carbon monoxide and some other toxic emissions from motor vehicle combustion." Despite persuasive arguments for the use of ethanol as an alternative fuel, Dr Ray Kearney remains convinced it's "purely politics" at the moment and the power of the multinationals is also playing a part. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The advantages of ethanol
This also from the same program Regards Nick The advantages of ethanol 1 July 2004 Information in the following fact sheet by Dr Ray Kearney, Department of Infectious Diseases and Immunology, University of Sydney. Ethanol: the benefits Health A 10 percent ethanol blend, known as E10, is known to be able to reduce fine particles by a qualified 50 percent. It's these fine particles that carry chemicals which are known to cause cancer. According to a publication in the Journal of American Medicine in 2002, one in five lung cancer deaths can be attributed to an association with fine particles. According to The Bureau of Transport and Regional Economics, more deaths in capital cities in Australia are caused by an exposure to pollution than road accidents, which has an associated cost of over $3.5 billion. Ethanol is the only additive to petrol that can reduce the greenhouse effect because it burns cleanly into carbon dioxide and water. Ethanol reduces carbon monoxide levels by at least 20 percent, depending on the vehicle. Ethanol can be used instead of the highly toxic, Benzene, which is a known leukemia-causing chemical. Economic Ethanol is a product of fermentation of carbohydrate, which can be produced from starch, cereal grain, cereal crop or sugarcane. The use of sugar in the production of ethanol can potentially have an enormous impact on the dwindling sugarcane industry and the rural industry in general. Ethanol is a renewable fuel. Ethanol provides energy security. Brazil is looking to cooperate and collaborate in the production of ethanol with Australia. Car manufacturers are already designing vehicles designed to be able to use 85 percent ethanol. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: weights and measures
Complete conversion tool for weights and measures: http://convert.french-property.co.uk/ And another useful converter: http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/celsius 50lbs=22680gr / 3.5=6480 liters conversion, like Nick pointed out. Use the conversion tool and tinker with it and you will soon be "metrisized" :) Of course this can also be used to determine the cost per liter at production. Take the cost of the 50lbs(22680gr) and divide by 22680 for per gram cost and them multiply by the number of grams used to get the cost per liter of NaOH (caustic) then add the cost of the methanol and whatever energy you used and that will give you total cost, prior to methanol recovery, of your liter of BD. Here I get about .41/liter before recovery and if I can get 25% recovery that reduces it yet another .10/liter for a costs of .31/liter which is well below half of what it is commercially for dino diesel not to mention all the environmental benefits that comes from BD use when esterifying WVO, so it is an all around win win when done right. Some people don't recover the methanol, but that still puts the pre liter cost at .41 or lower/higher depending on the cost of the methanol (the most expensive ingredient). All of this is for the single stage process only. I have no experience with the two stage process yet so cannot do a comparison, although I am sure it is similar if not actually better due to the fact that final yield is reported as higher, therefore you get more bang for the buck so-to-speak. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "nick_75au" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi George > > 50 Lbs = 22.680 Kilograms = 22680 grams / 3.5 grams per Litre = 6480 > Litres of methanol > 1 Lb + 453.6 grams > > regards > Nick > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, george meredith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > I`m 58 years old,don`t recall learning any metrics in my years of > school,but if your are so smart,tell me how many liters of > meth. ,will 50lbs of caustic charge,useing the 3.5,per liter formula. > (serious looking for an answer) > > > > Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > George, > > > > That was a good joke. LOL > > > > Hakan > > > > > > At 06:50 25/06/2004, you wrote: > > >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of > metrics > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More on Weights and Measures
Being 50 this year and having only learned the British imperial measurement system at school it was a challenge when I first shipped over to Australia where the metric system was already in place (at home they were just starting to convert), so I had to learn it or run around in the dark. Everything is divisible by ten is the rule, or so I was told, and it seems to work well that way. Then when I came to N.America after several years and I was then faced with learning a whole new system of weights and measures, the US system, based on well, the US. So I learned that, sort of. When I think of a US gal I automatically think 3.785 liters and then coordiante it to just over 3/4 of an imperial gal to get the right idea. Yup,the US gal is a USquart shy of the imperial galon. Sure is one heaping pile of numbers huh? Metric evens it all out. Why can't everyone use pounds, inches and galons? I believe was the original question. It's simple, EVERYONE uses metric, it is ONLY the US that doesn't. So why does the entire planet have to convert to US standards (and of late those are of toilet quality) when the US won't assimilate into the world community ? Going it alone, slapping the world in the face, with their British lap dog in Iraq didn't help foster any closing of relations now did it? So Americans can either learn the metric system and know what the rest of the planet is talking about or not and stay ignorant (in the educational sense) inside their own "superior" nation. (yes, American arrogance has run short on the patience meter of late) L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: weights and measures
>Hi George > >50 Lbs = 22.680 Kilograms = 22680 grams / 3.5 grams per Litre = 6480 >Litres of methanol >1 Lb + 453.6 grams > >regards >Nick Not so Nick. Not sure if George intends it as a trick question, but the "3.5,per liter formula" refers to the basic 3.5 grams of sodium hydroxide per litre of OIL, not of methanol, used for processing virgin oil. Presuming you'd be using 20% v/v methanol/oil, the answer would be 1,296 litres of methanol. George, the answer to your original question: > > >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of >metrics - is that Americans are just about the only people left who still use these awkward and antiquated measures, even the Brits tend to do metric these days (or a horrible mixture of both maybe), and Americans are not at the forefront of biodiesel development, the Europeans are, and have been for a long time, they're way ahead. And of course the Europeans use the metric system. Most scientists and engineers also use the metric system, including American ones, so even in America the basic formula for homebrewers was always given as 3.5 grams of lye per litre of new oil, which is now accepted worldwide practice. Anyway, it really isn't a problem. Two easy solutions. One, use this site, or another like it, to do the conversion work for you: http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistry/general/units_en.html Conversion of Units Two, get yourself a shareware conversion calculator for your computer, there are lots of them available, they're quick and simple. We all have to have them anyway because of all these Americans about the place who insist on using stone-age measurements. (Just teasing...) (... sort of.) By the way, I'm also 58 years old, we learnt some metrics in school too but it was badly done and not much help when I first encountered the metric system for real. But it's easy - the main problem is the one Robert pointed out, if you stick to the awkward old measures in your thinking and then have to do awful conversion calculations all the time, like dividing by 453.6, for instance, ouch! I think many of us use both systems though, without too much pain, especially where "about" will do - two and a half centimetres to the inch, a metre's a yard and a bit, about four litres per (US) gallon, five miles is eight kilometres, half a kilogram is about a pound. You get by. Fahrenheit's the one to dump. Also by the way, the rude person who said you were an "ignorant idiot" or something for asking this question and was told by several people to apologise, including me, refused to do so and when I wouldn't let him post anything else until he did, he chose to unsubscribe instead, which I'd say is more his loss than ours. Best wishes Keith Addison List owner >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, george meredith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > I`m 58 years old,don`t recall learning any metrics in my years of >school,but if your are so smart,tell me how many liters of >meth. ,will 50lbs of caustic charge,useing the 3.5,per liter formula. >(serious looking for an answer) > > > > Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > George, > > > > That was a good joke. LOL > > > > Hakan > > > > > > At 06:50 25/06/2004, you wrote: > > >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of >metrics > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Like to Introduce Myself - Ethanol Maker
Hi Dennis >Hey Keith! > >Will eagerly read and devour all ethanol info you or >others can post; especially anything to do with ECM >modification & who can be recommended to do mods to >enable running ethanol on late model vehicles. Lots of ethanol information on our website, in the online Biofuels Library there, and in the list archives. Also the Biofuels-biz group's archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ >Also nice to know one can still push a button and get >an entertaining response out of Keith . even if we >can't wean him off biodiesel. .lol :-) It's only a matter of time before you realise the error of your ways and seek to mend them. We recommend salvation by means of transesterification. >Best... > >Dennis Nelson > >P.S. Keith, where can I find details on Mother Earth >News waste oil burners? Right here: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html Mother Earth: Waste Oil Heater However, this section of our site is overdue for a major upgrade. Here's one change: "When this stove was designed and built, most motor oil was formulated for larger-displacement, pre-catalytic-era vehicles. As demands of fuel economy and federal emission standards began to affect auto manufacturers, they had to make smaller, harder-working engines that operated at higher temperatures than the older engines, especially with the introduction of catalytic-converter systems in the mid-1970s. Subsequently, motor oil sometimes flashed in the crankcases of vehicles, and in the early 1980s, an anti-flashing agent was added to motor oils for safety reasons. This raised the oil's combustion temperature significantly. Naturally, the performance of the waste oil heater was affected, and the original Mother Earth News stopped selling plans when complaints brought the problems to light." That said, a group of people has been working on an adaptation using a different burner design and a blower - a bit of a pity, because one of the attractions of the old design was that it didn't need a power supply. See Page 3: Feedback and modifications http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me6.html Anyway, though this work isn't finalised yet, they've achieved consistent results with very high temperatures which combust waste lube oil cleanly and efficiently, and they're not at all bothered about these concerns. I've been involved in this to some extent, because, though we've never been interested in burning waste lube oil, we are interested in using the glycerine "cocktail" by-product of biodiesel for heating, and clean combustion of this also requires high temperatures. I think both these problems are well on the way to being solved. That's why I said we'd finished building our first of two Mother Earth News waste oil burners, burning WVO. This is the classic type, according to the plans at the site. It works very well, lots of heat, though it does smoke a little - acceptable I think. The second one will be the blower type, burning glyc by-product. We do already use the glyc for heating, mixed with wood shaving in 1-litre milk carton "logs", and also in a Turk-type burner for pre-heating the WVO priot to biod processing. See: Burning glycerine http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#burn And: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html >I thought they were a defunct >publishing enterprise long ago. The original MEN no longer exists, it changed ownership several times and is now just another magazine, focus on homesteading, not too bad, nothing special either, though they do have a lot of the articles from the original archived at their website: http://www.motherearthnews.com/index.php?page=archindex >Still interested >though. Might even get me to convert to BioD !! No, it's a waste to burn biod in a heater like that, no need. Best wishes Keith >--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Hi Glenn! > > > > > >Just so you don't feel all alone here on the JTF > > list, > > >I'm also interersted in the distilling of ethanol. > > >What type of equipment are you using? > > > > > >I'm not distilling at this point too many > > >other projects to get through but am gathering > > >information to make conversions for ECM equipped > > >vehicles to make them in effect an FFV. > > > > > >Glad to see another ethanol devotee. If we get > > enough > > >of us maybe we can convert Keith and get him off > > >biodiesel . hehehehhe. > > > > > >Best. > > > > > >Dennis Nelson > > > > :-) Well, you won't get me off biodiesel, but > > there's no need to > > "convert" me (arghhh! - into what? Mercy!). > > > > Ethanol is one of our projects this summer, at long > > last, though > > we've been pushing it for five years. Well, > > hopefully this summer... > > we don't always meet our deadlines, but we usually > > get there in the > > end. We rea
Re: [biofuel] Glycerol Abundance???
Hello Ircham There have been rumours of such a glycerine glut from biodiesel manufacture in Europe, for a couple of years now, but I only ever saw one reference to it and was never able to confirm it. Perhaps it was an apocryphal tale. Given the requirement for localised production of biodiesel, what Pan and Balaji are discussing seems to make the most sense to me - use the stuff to generate heat and power, for the processing and beyond. Using it as part at least of the feedstock in a biogas operation could have some of the same benefits. >Econimics is fundamental to the future of Biodiesel, >since it is presently more expensive to produce than >petroleum diesel, The impact of this higher cost may >not be significant if it is used at blend rates of >only a few percent in petroleum diesel. However, for >any higher usage rates, it is vital to the future of >this renewable fuel that its price be more competitive >with that of conventional diesel fuel. By having >markets for crude and refined glycerol, biodiesel >producers stand a better chance of conferring economic >viability upon their operation. The other option is cost-reduction via on-site re-use, closing the circle. It's important that these costs be calculated properly though. One thing that Balaji said is a caution here: "The plants at village level should nominally be viable at > 20 kWe output, if you compare it with grid delivered and unsubsidised power. However, in most cases this prognosis holds little meaning, as you are providing villagers something they never possessed and the cascading impact on the village economy and quality of life of the people now made powerful, in more ways than one, cannot be easily and directly reckoned." But that impact must be rationally allowed for anyway. >Econimics is fundamental to the future of Biodiesel, >since it is presently more expensive to produce than >petroleum diesel, Is it? Once you take ALL the subsidies away from all factors involved in both, and really level the playing field, is biodiesel really more expensive? I wonder. There are often some false sacred cows in this (hey!), the subsidies and props and everything else involved in making fossil fuels seem (only seem) pocket-friendly are somehow regarded by the powers-that-be as "natural" or something, a non-negotiable "given", but of course the same doesn't apply to any suggestion to subsidise renewable alternatives, that would be anti-"free" market, titlting the playing field, sheer sacrilege. A conspiracy, as you said, whether knowing or not. Best wishes Keith >I got some interesting article. > >Glycerol Abundance??? > >Glycerol constitutes about 10% of all animal and >vegetable fats and oilsin the form of triglycerides. >Crude glycerol is gennerally produced as by product-or >coproduct-of fats and oil hydrolysis for the >production of fatty acids and soaps, but synthetih >glycerol, produced from propylene, is also widely used >product. Crude glycerol is refined to meet United >States Pharmacopeia (USP) grade requirements for use >in most commercial applications. >But since glycerol is also a by-product of biodiesel >fuel production, with the steady growth since >mid-1990s in biodiesel fuel consumption, many in the >biodiesel community, such as Haas, foresee an eventual >glycerol gut. A glycerol surplus would depress proces >and possibly hinder future growth in biodiesel fuel >consumption. >Presently, biodiesel production is increasing rapidly. >For the year 2000, biodiesel production in North >America alone was about 2,000 tons. In 2002, it rose >to 100,000 tons, and is estimated to have been about >250,000 tons for 2003. Its about 10 times that level >for world production. Most Biodiesel is produced in >Western Europe, where proces for petroleum fuels are >higher than in the United States and where >environmental awareness may also be greater. Although >there are many uses for glycerol, the market is not >growing rapidly. The amount of new glycerol on the >market is going to be substantial, especially when you >consider projected growth for Biodiesel production. >Biodiesel fuel production is spurring cause for >concern for glycerol markets. >According to Cleveland, Ohio-based market research >group Freedonia Group, Inc., demand for biodiesel is >forecast to grow 30% in the United States to 100 >million gallons by 2006, spurred by Environmental >Protection Agency (EPA) regulations requiring diesel >fuel to reduce sulfuc content from the current 500 ppm >minimum to 15 ppm by June 2006. >Econimics is fundamental to the future of Biodiesel, >since it is presently more expensive to produce than >petroleum diesel, The impact of this higher cost may >not be significant if it is used at blend rates of >only a few percent in petroleum diesel. However, for >any higher usage rates, it is vital to the future of >this renewable fuel that its price be more competitive >with that of conventional diesel fuel. By having >mark
[biofuel] OT humor - divine retribution
To my higher Power, As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the rain started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday since that report. This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the rest of the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good Governor, I mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was going to be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? Bright Blessings, Kim [who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: weights and measures
Yes I Got caught out but Im not the only one :-). I thought when I read it it cant be that easy and that that would treat a lot of oil so it goes like this. 22680 g / 3.5 g = 6480 Litres of OIL 6480 * 20% = 1296 L of methanol or for the metricaly challenged 50 lb/ 2.25 pennyweight = 1425.4 UK gallons 1425.4 / 20% = 228.839 cubic feet of methanol Regards Nick Try www.joshmadison.com/software for an easy to use converter with just about any conversion you could want --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Hi George > > > >50 Lbs = 22.680 Kilograms = 22680 grams / 3.5 grams per Litre = 6480 > >Litres of methanol > >1 Lb + 453.6 grams > > > >regards > >Nick > > Not so Nick. Not sure if George intends it as a trick question, but > the "3.5,per liter formula" refers to the basic 3.5 grams of sodium > hydroxide per litre of OIL, not of methanol, used for processing > virgin oil. Presuming you'd be using 20% v/v methanol/oil, the answer > would be 1,296 litres of methanol. > > George, the answer to your original question: > > > > >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of > >metrics > > - is that Americans are just about the only people left who still use > these awkward and antiquated measures, even the Brits tend to do > metric these days (or a horrible mixture of both maybe), and > Americans are not at the forefront of biodiesel development, the > Europeans are, and have been for a long time, they're way ahead. And > of course the Europeans use the metric system. Most scientists and > engineers also use the metric system, including American ones, so > even in America the basic formula for homebrewers was always given as > 3.5 grams of lye per litre of new oil, which is now accepted > worldwide practice. > > Anyway, it really isn't a problem. Two easy solutions. One, use this > site, or another like it, to do the conversion work for you: > http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistry/general/units_en.html > Conversion of Units > > Two, get yourself a shareware conversion calculator for your > computer, there are lots of them available, they're quick and simple. > We all have to have them anyway because of all these Americans about > the place who insist on using stone-age measurements. (Just > teasing...) (... sort of.) > > By the way, I'm also 58 years old, we learnt some metrics in school > too but it was badly done and not much help when I first encountered > the metric system for real. But it's easy - the main problem is the > one Robert pointed out, if you stick to the awkward old measures in > your thinking and then have to do awful conversion calculations all > the time, like dividing by 453.6, for instance, ouch! > > I think many of us use both systems though, without too much pain, > especially where "about" will do - two and a half centimetres to the > inch, a metre's a yard and a bit, about four litres per (US) gallon, > five miles is eight kilometres, half a kilogram is about a pound. You > get by. Fahrenheit's the one to dump. > > Also by the way, the rude person who said you were an "ignorant > idiot" or something for asking this question and was told by several > people to apologise, including me, refused to do so and when I > wouldn't let him post anything else until he did, he chose to > unsubscribe instead, which I'd say is more his loss than ours. > > Best wishes > > Keith Addison > List owner > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, george meredith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >wrote: > > > I`m 58 years old,don`t recall learning any metrics in my years of > >school,but if your are so smart,tell me how many liters of > >meth. ,will 50lbs of caustic charge,useing the 3.5,per liter formula. > >(serious looking for an answer) > > > > > > Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > George, > > > > > > That was a good joke. LOL > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > At 06:50 25/06/2004, you wrote: > > > >Why can`t everyone use gallons,ouarts,pints,ounces,lbs instead of > >metrics > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: OT humor - divine retribution
Could you get Him to send some of that rain this way and some to those Indian farmers blaming the wind turbines for chopping up the clouds, we over here in autralias east coast cant remember what a rainy day is. Regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To my higher Power, > > As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across > my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the rain > started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on > June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of > the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday > since that report. > > This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? > > I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the rest of > the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good Governor, I > mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end > to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the > idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot > back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had > permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it > sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, > something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family > footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. > > I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was going to > be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 > days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we > promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? > > Bright Blessings, > Kim > [who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT humor - divine retribution
Hi Kim, its too late now,sorry Fritz - Original Message - From: "Kim & Garth Travis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: [biofuel] OT humor - divine retribution > To my higher Power, > > As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across > my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the rain > started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on > June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of > the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday > since that report. > > This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? > > I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the rest of > the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good Governor, I > mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end > to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the > idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot > back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had > permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it > sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, > something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family > footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. > > I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was going to > be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 > days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we > promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? > > Bright Blessings, > Kim > [who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Look pal, speaking as one of Mike's Michigan homeboys, you and I are gonna throw down. When Mike says, "The facts are true, the opinions are mine," he means it. If you have a mental disorder that distorts your analytical skills to the point where you can't tell fact from opinion, then you really should only read Mike's books or watch his films under the supervision of a trained mental health specialist. Until you're ready to seek mental health services, I suggest you go back to your flock of ostriches and stick your head back in the sands of the mainstream media informational wasteland. Now that I've unloaded the emotional baggage, as far as drug related violence is concerned, Uncle Sam is the supreme aggressor in the drug war. He's got over 1.6 million American drug war POW's serving up to 20 year mandatory minimum sentences in his domestic prisons, while he considers a national average half million annual deaths due to the use of legally condoned alcohol and tobacco an acceptable loss. Prisons on American soil are every bit as nasty and brutal as Abu Ghraib and Camp X-Ray. Another similarity between domestic and offshore prisons under US control, is that the vast majority of inmates happen to have dark skin. Prison labor is nothing more than modernized institutional slavery. Well known consumer products such as Victoria's Secret intimate apparel are manufactured by these modern-day slaves on the promise of early release, in exchange for ghostly pennies per hour that are garnished as fast as they're earned to pay court imposed fines. I think President Lincoln would roll over in his grave if he could see this ironic abuse of the lowest valued coin in the American monetary system that bears his likeness. In my opinion, rounding people up and warehousing them under lock and key, razor wire, tons of concrete, and chain link fencing in government operated sweatshops as punishment for harming themselves is the wrong approach. Drug policy funding should be immediately and completely diverted from law enforcement, judicial, and correctional agencies into education and health care agencies, as well as voluntary at-risk youth diversion programs providing job skills training at an early age, to effectively manage the problem of drug abuse and addiction in America. Schools and clinics are less expensive to build and operate than prisons, and they're a net asset, rather than a net liability to the community. To rehabilitate a person is to return them to a previous state of ability from their current state of disability. Therefore, we must thoroughly habilitate our youth now to avoid their possible rehabilitation in adulthood. The old clich about the difficulties of imparting amusing behaviors to aged canines is just plain common sense. This drug war phenomenon has its roots in the American slave trade. The upper economic class of the Southern states were the region's majority of agrarian slave and land owners. Their eventual secession in the mid 19th century and the resulting war to preserve the union hinged on the 10th Amendment right of the states, or the people, to govern themselves within the confines of the US Constitution, which until later amended, institutionalized inequality by requiring the slave to be counted in the national census as only 60 percent human, and expressly forbidding altogether the inclusion of the untaxed indigenous population in the census, thereby relegating them to the status of wild beasts. This is ironic, in that there are numerous references, both in print and on the internet, including the assertions of President Kennedy in the introduction to the 1961 Dell paperback edition of The American Heritage Book of Indians by William Brandon, to Iroquois and other tribal influences in the shaping of ideas of democracy in the infancy of this country that we can now call the only nuclear military superpower nation-state in the world. Today we count people of color in America, be they indigenous in origin or those whose ancestors were kidnapped from their native lands to be used as human workhorses, as equals. But a fair head count is where the equality really stops, and that, in my opinion is unequivocally wrong and insidiously evil. As a lifelong resident of the state that gave birth to the Republican Party, I've studied its history even though, in my opinion, many of the planks in its current platform are old and infested with termites. While still in its infancy, the Grand Old Party learned that violence is a good way to solve problems. To carry the insect metaphor further, my personal view of human combat in general leads me to conclude the possibility that human evolution hasn't yet reached the point where it has completely eliminated chromosomes left over from the colonial insect branch of our prehistoric family tree. Those who view war as a profitable venture, in my opinion, are possibly more genetically primitive than others who view peace as the ideal. Ameri
Re: [biofuel] OT humor - divine retribution
Kim, I guess that if George does not want to sign Kyoto and is watering down the pollution regulation, he can water down George's farm. Sort of tit for tat, George destroy his property, so why can he not destroy George's? Sorry that you are in the middle of it. Hakan At 14:47 01/07/2004, you wrote: >To my higher Power, > >As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across >my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the rain >started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on >June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of >the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday >since that report. > >This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? > >I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the rest of >the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good Governor, I >mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end >to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the >idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot >back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had >permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it >sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, >something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family >footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. > >I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was going to >be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 >days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we >promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? > >Bright Blessings, >Kim >[who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Glycerol Abundance???
> A glycerol surplus would depress proces > and possibly hinder future growth in biodiesel fuel > consumption. Hardly. As a simple sugar, glycerol can be added to almost any food or feed product "requiring" sweetening. The only hang up will be relative costs of production between refining glycerol and cradle to grave processing of other sweeteners such as molasses, honey, corn syrup, and cane sugar. When conducting a cost/benefit analysis (CBA) it has to be remembered that the glycerol is already harvested, in the warehouse and ready to be refined, while the other sweeteners haven't even been planted or harvested yet. Include into the equation the fact that WVO and/or recovered FFAs can be used to fire the boilers needed to refine the glycerol and you have a low/no sum energy cost. That can't be said about natural gas or other fossil fuels used to fire industrial boilers for the other sweeteners. All depends how the bean counters want to work it. Yes, there is an opportunity cost of using the WVO and/or recovered FFAs as process fuel instead of refining them and distributing them as biodiesel. But there is also an energy cost savings in comparison to using fossil fuels to fire boilers. It's all part of the cost of doing business, leaving the "glut" issue more along the lines of a "straw man" or a "red herring" than anything else. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Mochammad Ircham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: [biofuel] Glycerol Abundance??? > I got some interesting article. > > Glycerol Abundance??? > > Glycerol constitutes about 10% of all animal and > vegetable fats and oilsin the form of triglycerides. > Crude glycerol is gennerally produced as by product-or > coproduct-of fats and oil hydrolysis for the > production of fatty acids and soaps, but synthetih > glycerol, produced from propylene, is also widely used > product. Crude glycerol is refined to meet United > States Pharmacopeia (USP) grade requirements for use > in most commercial applications. > But since glycerol is also a by-product of biodiesel > fuel production, with the steady growth since > mid-1990s in biodiesel fuel consumption, many in the > biodiesel community, such as Haas, foresee an eventual > glycerol gut. A glycerol surplus would depress proces > and possibly hinder future growth in biodiesel fuel > consumption. > Presently, biodiesel production is increasing rapidly. > For the year 2000, biodiesel production in North > America alone was about 2,000 tons. In 2002, it rose > to 100,000 tons, and is estimated to have been about > 250,000 tons for 2003. It's about 10 times that level > for world production. Most Biodiesel is produced in > Western Europe, where proces for petroleum fuels are > higher than in the United States and where > environmental awareness may also be greater. Although > there are many uses for glycerol, the market is not > growing rapidly. The amount of new glycerol on the > market is going to be substantial, especially when you > consider projected growth for Biodiesel production. > Biodiesel fuel production is spurring cause for > concern for glycerol markets. > According to Cleveland, Ohio-based market research > group Freedonia Group, Inc., demand for biodiesel is > forecast to grow 30% in the United States to 100 > million gallons by 2006, spurred by Environmental > Protection Agency (EPA) regulations requiring diesel > fuel to reduce sulfuc content from the current 500 ppm > minimum to 15 ppm by June 2006. > Econimics is fundamental to the future of Biodiesel, > since it is presently more expensive to produce than > petroleum diesel, The impact of this higher cost may > not be significant if it is used at blend rates of > only a few percent in petroleum diesel. However, for > any higher usage rates, it is vital to the future of > this renewable fuel that its price be more competitive > with that of conventional diesel fuel. By having > markets for crude and refined glycerol, biodiesel > producers stand a better chance of conferring economic > viability upon their operation. > > inform magazine, March 2004 > > regards > Ircham Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT humor - divine retribution
Anyway Kim, Now you know what coalition (hmm no), collective (no), casual (no), I got it!! Collateral casualties means. He did not mean make problems for you, but you are to close and it is your fault. Hakan At 15:26 01/07/2004, you wrote: >Kim, > >I guess that if George does not want to sign Kyoto and is watering down the >pollution regulation, he can water down George's farm. Sort of tit for tat, >George destroy his property, so why can he not destroy George's? Sorry that >you are in the middle of it. > >Hakan > > >At 14:47 01/07/2004, you wrote: > >To my higher Power, > > > >As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across > >my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the rain > >started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on > >June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of > >the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday > >since that report. > > > >This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? > > > >I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the rest of > >the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good Governor, I > >mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end > >to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the > >idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot > >back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had > >permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it > >sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, > >something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family > >footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. > > > >I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was going to > >be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 > >days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we > >promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? > > > >Bright Blessings, > >Kim > >[who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT humor - divine retribution
Thanks Hakan, Bright Blessings, Kim At 08:26 AM 7/1/2004, you wrote: >Kim, > >I guess that if George does not want to sign Kyoto and is watering down the >pollution regulation, he can water down George's farm. Sort of tit for tat, >George destroy his property, so why can he not destroy George's? Sorry that >you are in the middle of it. > >Hakan > > >At 14:47 01/07/2004, you wrote: > >To my higher Power, > > > >As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across > >my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the rain > >started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on > >June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of > >the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday > >since that report. > > > >This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? > > > >I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the rest of > >the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good Governor, I > >mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end > >to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the > >idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot > >back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had > >permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it > >sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, > >something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family > >footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. > > > >I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was going to > >be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 > >days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we > >promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? > > > >Bright Blessings, > >Kim > >[who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT humor - divine retribution
I only wish I could, I wish I could send it anywhere. We have been averaging 5 inches a day, or for the rest of the world, 12.7cm. Bright Blessings, Kim At 07:57 AM 7/1/2004, you wrote: >Could you get Him to send some of that rain this way and some to >those Indian farmers blaming the wind turbines for chopping up the >clouds, we over here in autralias east coast cant remember what a >rainy day is. >Regards >Nick > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > To my higher Power, > > > > As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning >flashing across > > my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before >the rain > > started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station >reported on > > June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this >part of > > the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained >everyday > > since that report. > > > > This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to >deserve this? > > > > I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking >the rest of > > the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good >Governor, I > > mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and >put an end > > to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not >like the > > idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and >shoot > > back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people >had > > permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, >but it > > sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy >programs, > > something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the >family > > footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what >we did. > > > > I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was >going to > > be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? >After 20 > > days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. >If we > > promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? > > > > Bright Blessings, > > Kim > > [who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT humor - divine retribution
Actually, I can't vote, I have the wrong nationality. [It was meant as humor] But yes, I did think he was an okay Governor, I wish he had stayed a Governor. Bright Blessings, KIm At 08:51 AM 7/1/2004, you wrote: >Anyway Kim, > >Now you know what coalition (hmm no), collective (no), casual (no), I got >it!! Collateral casualties means. He did not mean make problems for you, >but you are to close and it is your fault. > > Hakan > > >At 15:26 01/07/2004, you wrote: > > >Kim, > > > >I guess that if George does not want to sign Kyoto and is watering down the > >pollution regulation, he can water down George's farm. Sort of tit for tat, > >George destroy his property, so why can he not destroy George's? Sorry that > >you are in the middle of it. > > > >Hakan > > > > > >At 14:47 01/07/2004, you wrote: > > >To my higher Power, > > > > > >As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across > > >my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the > rain > > >started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on > > >June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of > > >the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday > > >since that report. > > > > > >This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? > > > > > >I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the > rest of > > >the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good > Governor, I > > >mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end > > >to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the > > >idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot > > >back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had > > >permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it > > >sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, > > >something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family > > >footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. > > > > > >I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was > going to > > >be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 > > >days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we > > >promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? > > > > > >Bright Blessings, > > >Kim > > >[who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale > Hi > > I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for > sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a > single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it > from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is > any one interested? > > Mark > 07963 651609 > > > > > > ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. > Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. The facts are true. Michael Moore is meticulous in making sure he doesn't say anything that is explicitly false. Instead, he uses cheap camera tricks and clever sequences to give a very clear picture of what he is trying to say without ever actually implicating himself. Just a few examples from Bowling from Columbine because its been thoroughly analyzed numerous times. Firstly, the gun from the bank. http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm He edits the seen to make it appear like he walked in wrote his name down and got a gun. This is supposed to show how easy it is to get a gun. This is a horrible example because the same process is used here as any gun shop would use. He neglects to show the fact that the clerk then took his ID and ran it through I believe its an FBI? database. But it certainly looks like America is handing out guns to anyone. If I remember correctly from read the process actually took closer to an hour and a half. Weak example yes, but none-the-less if shown honestly it would do nothing to promote Moore's arguement that any old fool can get a gun in the way he described. The requirements for getting that gun from the bank were just as stringent as getting it from any other registered gun shop. If he wants to analyze that, then fine, I support it. Maybe it is too easy to get a gun, I'm not here to offer an opinion on it, but the bank scene is only an example of the same process that would happen in any other legal weapon transaction. I think the NRA bashes are more incriminating of Moore's deceptive style. He spends quite a while dehumanizing the NRA and especially Mr. Heston. I had a very good friend see this movie and tell me Heston and the NRA were a bunch of jerks for jumping up to hold rallies right after the killings in Flint and Columbine. I must say, the 'evidence' in the movie was compelling. But some other people slowed down the feeds and picked through the internet. The 'rally' in Flint wasn't actually a Rally, Heston showed up to support Bush on his campaign, and it was 7 months after the incident. The movie shows a headline that says, "48 hours after Kayla Rolland is pronounced dead" either right before or right after the Heston clip. It insinuates the meeting was 48 hours after, and there is no way its not intentional. But the headline continues on to say something about Clinton making a statement about the incident and is completely unrelated to the NRA. http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/hestonrally2.htm He also uses the NRA meeting in Colorado right after the Columbine shootings as further ammo against the NRA. The video clips he shows of Heston are actually from another rally, and he fails to mention that the NRA cancelled most all of its other activities aside from the vote that by law is mandatory. I believe its a non-profit law to vote officials or something else similar. Irregardless the NRA had to have its meeting, which it did, but the NRA did nothing like what Moore shows. Frankly, I don't know what the whole NRA bash accomplished for his argument, but his entire basis against the NRA is made up. It looks more like he has a vendetta against the NRA and wants to publish it. So, quite frankly, I don't trust the guy, or most of what he says. He has been explicitly decpetive in BFC. He has something compelling with the Iraq war, but just like most of the media, its entirely one-sided. And his theory on the Saudi connection and the plot with the Bushes to intentionally start a war is pretty weak. Its more an assertion using almost nothing. I think his smoking gun is a connection in the Carlyle group, which is a large investing firm. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know the other stockholders of the companies I invest in, much less socialize and plot to take over the world with them. I'm really anxious to see what little camera tricks he threw into this one when it comes out on DVD. Randall Sanborn -- Original message -- Look pal, speaking as one of Mike's Michigan homeboys, you and I are gonna throw down. When Mike says, "The facts are true, the opinions are mine," he means it. If you have a mental disorder that distorts your analytical skills to the point where you can't tell fact from opinion, then you really should only read Mike's books or watch his films under the supervision of a trained mental health specialist. Until you're ready to seek mental health services, I suggest you go back to your flock of ostriches and stick your head back in the sands of the mainstream media informational wasteland. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -
[biofuel] The amount of lye
I am just wondering, if we had a lot of time would it not be possible to determine te amount of lye in a mix and try method? If you have a good methanol recovery system you colud just preapare say 5g/l methanol mix and then add wait, then check add a little more then check...?? Just my 2cent idea. Thanks Teoman __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] New Technology "APR" for gasification of glycerol/glycerine
Greetings, I have recently joined the on-line discussion re: biofuels/biodiesel. We ( www.virent.com ) are developing a new, single-step, relatively low-temperature process for converting glycerol & other sugars/liquid carbohydrates into hydrogen &/or fuel gas. Virent is a 12 person, pre-commercial operation, so we are looking for partners & collaborators from other parts of the world -- who have or know of large quantity sugar-streams, (from primary processing or as a bi-product of agricultural industry). We believe our technology, called Aqueous Phase Reforming (APR) has broad application potential. If you can put us in touch with largescale biodiesel producers we might be able to help with that "glycerol glut". The products of our processing can be used in fuel cells, internal combustion engines & turbines to generate cleaner electricity/power. Feel free to contact me [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit our website (above) for more information or to open a dialog. Thanks, H. Tony Hartmann VIRENT ENERGY SYSTEMS 3591 Anderson St. #209, Madison, WI 53704 (608) 663-0228 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] New Technology "APR" for gasification of glycerol/glycerine
Hello Tony >Greetings, I have recently joined the on-line discussion re: >biofuels/biodiesel. We ( www.virent.com ) are developing a new, >single-step, relatively low-temperature process for converting >glycerol & other sugars/liquid carbohydrates into hydrogen &/or fuel >gas. Virent is a 12 person, pre-commercial operation, so we are >looking for partners & collaborators from other parts of the world >-- who have or know of large quantity sugar-streams, (from primary >processing or as a bi-product of agricultural industry). We believe >our technology, called Aqueous Phase Reforming (APR) has broad >application potential. If you can put us in touch with largescale >biodiesel producers we might be able to help with that "glycerol >glut". The accent here is on small-scale, decentralised production. >The products of our processing can be used in fuel cells, internal >combustion engines & turbines to generate cleaner electricity/power. >Feel free to contact me [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit our >website (above) for more information or to open a dialog. Onlist discussion would be better, that's what the list is for, sharing information, not taking it offlist. Please keep it onlist. Keith Addison List owner >Thanks, >H. Tony Hartmann >VIRENT ENERGY SYSTEMS >3591 Anderson St. #209, Madison, WI 53704 >(608) 663-0228 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The amount of lye
Hello Teoman >I am just wondering, if we had a lot of time would it >not be possible to determine te amount of lye in a mix >and try method? >If you have a good methanol recovery system you colud >just preapare say 5g/l methanol mix and then add wait, >then check add a little more then check...?? > >Just my 2cent idea. > >Thanks >Teoman See this previous message: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33676/ Best wshes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The amount of lye
Teoman, What you suggest is called "poor man's titration." Works perfectly well in the absence of pH paper or phenothalein. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Teoman Naskali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 2:50 PM Subject: [biofuel] The amount of lye > I am just wondering, if we had a lot of time would it > not be possible to determine te amount of lye in a mix > and try method? > If you have a good methanol recovery system you colud > just preapare say 5g/l methanol mix and then add wait, > then check add a little more then check...?? > > Just my 2cent idea. > > Thanks > Teoman > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Is your best source a thoroughly slanted website in which the writer admits that he doesn't know what Moore was thinking, but basing his premise on his own interpretation of it? A website that chronicles a few deaths related to toasters as proof that Moore doesn't know what he's talking about? Not much support for your arguments out there, is there? I didn't see "Bowling for Columbine" as an anti-gun film. I saw it as presenting the absurdity of the anti-gun regulation faction of our society. If I knew how, I would have underlined anti-gun regulation. Moore presents a balanced view, in which he points out that there are other countries in which guns are prevalent as well as countries with more violent media than ours that don't have our problem with gun violence. He did make a case for better regulation of guns, but did not have a strict anti-gun stance at all. He seemed to me to be saying that there are no easy answers, and that taking a hard line stance on either side is a mistake. While on the subject, have you ever noticed how the NRA points to some despots and dictators as anti-gun, but never mentions all of the privately owned guns in Iraq. Have you ever seen Iraqi citizens on Fox news that weren't waving some sort of weapon around? Curious. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. The facts are true. Michael Moore is meticulous in making sure he doesn't say anything that is explicitly false. Instead, he uses cheap camera tricks and clever sequences to give a very clear picture of what he is trying to say without ever actually implicating himself. > Just a few examples from Bowling from Columbine because its been thoroughly analyzed numerous times. > Firstly, the gun from the bank. > > http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm > > He edits the seen to make it appear like he walked in wrote his name down and got a gun. This is supposed to show how easy it is to get a gun. This is a horrible example because the same process is used here as any gun shop would use. He neglects to show the fact that the clerk then took his ID and ran it through I believe its an FBI? database. But it certainly looks like America is handing out guns to anyone. If I remember correctly from read the process actually took closer to an hour and a half. Weak example yes, but none-the-less if shown honestly it would do nothing to promote Moore's arguement that any old fool can get a gun in the way he described. The requirements for getting that gun from the bank were just as stringent as getting it from any other registered gun shop. If he wants to analyze that, then fine, I support it. Maybe it is too easy to get a gun, I'm not here to offer an opinion on it, but the bank scene is only an example of the same process that would happen in any other legal weapon transaction. > I think the NRA bashes are more incriminating of Moore's deceptive style. He spends quite a while dehumanizing the NRA and especially Mr. Heston. I had a very good friend see this movie and tell me Heston and the NRA were a bunch of jerks for jumping up to hold rallies right after the killings in Flint and Columbine. I must say, the 'evidence' in the movie was compelling. But some other people slowed down the feeds and picked through the internet. The 'rally' in Flint wasn't actually a Rally, Heston showed up to support Bush on his campaign, and it was 7 months after the incident. The movie shows a headline that says, "48 hours after Kayla Rolland is pronounced dead" either right before or right after the Heston clip. It insinuates the meeting was 48 hours after, and there is no way its not intentional. But the headline continues on to say something about Clinton making a statement about the incident and is completely unrelated to the NRA. > http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/hestonrally 2.htm > He also uses the NRA meeting in Colorado right after the Columbine shootings as further ammo against the NRA. The video clips he shows of Heston are actually from another rally, and he fails to mention that the NRA cancelled most all of its other activities aside from the vote that by law is mandatory. I believe its a non-profit law to vote officials or something else similar. Irregardless the NRA had to have its meeting, which it did, but the NRA did nothing like what Moore shows. Frankly, I don't know what the whole NRA bash accomplished for his argument, but his entire basis against the NRA is made up. It looks more like he has a vendetta against the NRA and wants to publish it. > So, quite frankly, I don't trust the guy, or most of what he says. He has been explicitly decpetive in BFC. He has something compelling with the Iraq war, but just like most of the media, its entirely one- sided. And his theory on the Saudi
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Randall, > I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. That goes "ditto" for me as well, especially when folks such as yourself point an entire list to spin sights dedicated solely to fragging those who present factual informatioin or reasonably supported perspectives contrary to the conservative party line. I was appreciably amused with the pro-Bill Oh-Really? bits found at one of your "sources." Forget Oh-Really's snotty mouth and bad manners. That sight conjours up distortions for every deceipt that he's practiced on the public for decades. And sadly, as long as he's got people similar to yourself defending him he'll never have to speak truthfully. Must be nice. Doubtful that you're getting paid for your efforts either. What a shamI mean shame. Again, thanks for the chuckles. I have this sneakin' suspicion that you have a few more of these gems up your sleeve just itchin' to slip out. Ohone other thing. Relative to your poker skills, or in this case your lack thereof, there's this little beaut... > A large number of civilians > died in Iraq during the war and occupation. I'm willing to bet that a > very large portion of those deaths were not inflicted by Americans > though. Me thinks that you might want to get a grip on the numbers before you initiate your practices of dispersion, much less start laying money down on your peculiar beliefs. Ten to twelve thousand civilian deaths during the initial weeks of the invasion If the bombs hadn't dropped they wouldn't be dead, now would they? Those were American/Coalition bombs, now weren't they? And they were dropped because America's favourite antagonist decided to show everyone his full depth and breadth of ineptitude. But it's their fault that they're dead, huh? So how about quantifying what you call "a very large portion?" Go ahead, take your time. But when you're finished, I'll give you 10:1 odds that you're completely in error. But hell, it's your money - bet what you want. Seems to me that you've got a sad knack of placing responsibility in places where it doesn't belong. Doesn't speak well for your powers of discernment. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 > I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. The facts are true. Michael Moore is meticulous in making sure he doesn't say anything that is explicitly false. Instead, he uses cheap camera tricks and clever sequences to give a very clear picture of what he is trying to say without ever actually implicating himself. > Just a few examples from Bowling from Columbine because its been thoroughly analyzed numerous times. > Firstly, the gun from the bank. > > http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm > > He edits the seen to make it appear like he walked in wrote his name down and got a gun. This is supposed to show how easy it is to get a gun. This is a horrible example because the same process is used here as any gun shop would use. He neglects to show the fact that the clerk then took his ID and ran it through I believe its an FBI? database. But it certainly looks like America is handing out guns to anyone. If I remember correctly from read the process actually took closer to an hour and a half. Weak example yes, but none-the-less if shown honestly it would do nothing to promote Moore's arguement that any old fool can get a gun in the way he described. The requirements for getting that gun from the bank were just as stringent as getting it from any other registered gun shop. If he wants to analyze that, then fine, I support it. Maybe it is too easy to get a gun, I'm not here to offer an opinion on it, but the bank scene is only an example of the same process that would happen in any other legal weapon transaction. > I think the NRA bashes are more incriminating of Moore's deceptive style. He spends quite a while dehumanizing the NRA and especially Mr. Heston. I had a very good friend see this movie and tell me Heston and the NRA were a bunch of jerks for jumping up to hold rallies right after the killings in Flint and Columbine. I must say, the 'evidence' in the movie was compelling. But some other people slowed down the feeds and picked through the internet. The 'rally' in Flint wasn't actually a Rally, Heston showed up to support Bush on his campaign, and it was 7 months after the incident. The movie shows a headline that says, "48 hours after Kayla Rolland is pronounced dead" either right before or right after the Heston clip. It insinuates the meeting was 48 hours after, and there is no way its not intentional. But the headline continues on to say something about Clinton making a statement about the incident and is completely unrelated to the NRA. > http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/hestonrally2.htm
