Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing

[Craig Harris]

Boy has Ford botched up the once pinnacle of safety Volvo!
  - Original Message - 
  From: J.L.Burney 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 3:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing


  thats a very good argument. the nimble feeling i get driveing my vee dub 
  makes me feel a bit on edge but i do think i would be able to avoid an 
  accident much easyer if i was moveing. now take into account getting rear 
  ended at a stop light? you cannot avoid anything while your not moveing. if 
  you take into account the type of driveing i do then you will see that in my 
  case i am much safer in a large vehicle. i drive in town stop and go trafic 
  most of the time. the larger vehicle makes it easyer to see me in trafic 
  when im actualy moveing and offers me the protection of a large massive 
  object while sitting still in trafic. if a driver does lose controll and 
  barrel into me i am less likely to be pushed into another vehicle. you can 
  argue all day long about how some statistic says i am wrong but i have no 
  idea what numbers they used how they collected those numbers and how they 
  fit into my driveing style. eg.. are those numbers collected from accidents 
  on higways or residential streets? who collected the data the insurance 
  companys or the police? the purpose of the data collection has a huge input 
  on how the data is collected and who it is collected from. the numbers from 
  an insurance companys study isnt to save your life its to justify a rate 
  increase.

  as far as passenger death between a VW that seats 4 and a SUV that seats 8 
  i would have to agree that the death toll for the SUV would probably be 2x 
  as high per accident. again i also know that most people DO NOT KNOW how to 
  drive a vehicle that has the kind of mass that mine does. it would take me 
  at least 4 x the distance to come to a full stop in my SUV than in my VW on 
  a city street on the highway that would incerase to 6-8x.

  on a side note i would just like to thank you for argueing the facts instead 
  of attacking me personaly.
  - Original Message - 
  From: "Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing


  >A while back, someone (Keith) posted an article dealing with the difference 
  >between ability to avoid an accident and the ability to survive an 
  >accident. A look at the archives should find this article.  There was a 
  >table in the article showing the number of occupant deaths per 100,000 
  >vehicles sold. The lowest?  Toyota Camry and VW Jetta.  The highest, Ford 
  >F-150 if I remember correctly.  Among the highest was also the Explorer, 
  >Chevy Tahoe, etc.  The moral of the story?  Avoiding an accident offers the 
  >greatest survivability, and this ability makes smaller vehicles safer. 
  >Sorry, but your big SUV is not the bastion of safety you believe.  It is 
  >more of a lumbering deathtrap when the reality of the situation is 
  >examined.
  >
  > As for being a reasonable adult, avoiding accidents is often a function of 
  > the other guy no matter how reasonable your driving habits are.
  >
  > Brian
  >
  >  Original Message - 
  > From: "J.L.Burney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  > Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:53 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
  >
  >
  >>
  >> - Original Message - 
  >> From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:22 AM
  >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
  >>
  >>
  >>> Jay,
  >>>
   because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my
   SUV.
  >>>
  >>> That's what everyone says. But the death tolls keep climbing.
  >>
  >> There must be
  >>> an error in that sort of logic somewhere or there would be far fewer 
  >>> grave
  >>> markers.
  >>
  >> if you assume the people that have died in SUV roll overs have all been 
  >> useing logic (actualy reading the speedo)instead of a false sence of 
  >> speed common when driveing somthing so massive coupled with being higher 
  >> up off the road surface. it just luls your eyes into thinking you not 
  >> takeing that turn at 45 mph. so you have to be very diligent.
  >>
  >> i have my off road cert from the red cross.i know what i am doing when it 
  >> comes to driveing. (man i miss that range rover)
  >>>
   yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL
  >>>
  >>> Sorry. (Although I don't know why an apology would be in order.) You 
  >>> don't
  >>> "know" any such thing. Maybe your thought processes are partially out of
  >>> joint. Maybe your predilection wi

Re: [Biofuel] Re: Diesel from wood/biomass

[Sam Critchley]

Hi Keith, everyone,

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:48:58 +0200, Keith Addison  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Hello Sam



Choren has got a process running which extracts biodiesel (well, "a  
biodiesel-type fuel") directly from woody biomass.




We've had quite a lot about it, and quite a lot more about the  
Fischer-Tropsch process in general. These are about Choren:


http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/26862/
2003-08-03
World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32898/
2004-03-18
Re: [biofuel] Sunoil better than biodiesel

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/45417/
2005-03-31
DaimlerChrysler emphasizes synthetic diesel commitment


Great set of links to previous discussion - apologies as well, I should  
definitely have picked up the last one from my own mail client (which  
automatically files mailing-lists and makes them searchable).




"The dawn of a new era for automotove fuels"? The Fischer-Tropsch  
process converts synthesis gas to oxycarbon alcohols or into synfuel  
hydrocarbons (syn-gasoline, diesel, jet fuel), first made by coal  
gasification processes. It's not exactly new. It was invented in 1917 by  
German synthetic fuels scientists and used by Hitler to provide fuel for  
the Nazis in WW2.


Aha, sorry, I hadn't connected the Fischer-Tropsch process with the  
Choren/Daimler Chrysler technology.


[snip]


As for woody biomass, that can also produce syngas, or producer gas - in  
fact all you need is the wood, not $400 million or something for a  
Fischer-Tropsch plant: See: Wood gas:

http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas

"Nothing new under the sun" - including Sundiesel.


Fascinating - I hadn't realised it was such a big area.

Thanks,

Sam




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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

RE: [Biofuel] Future of Ethanol and Brazilian biofuel project

[Tom Irwin]

Greetings Sr. Pannir,

I'm desperately trying to find a way to use ethanol in my biodiesel process.
My difficulty is on several levels. I live in Uruguay which doesn't produce
ethanol or at least I haven't found local manufacturers. So I would have to
start my own plant or import from your country. Importing is a rather
laborous process for the small business person here even with our Mercosur
connection. There are generally high duties to be paid on imported
materials. I figure I can produce 95% ethanol with cheap crop stubble but
getting that last 5% water out is the devil in my processing scheme. I've
never had any success whatsoever making BioD with 95% ethanol. I know I
shouldn't have bothered but I just had to try a few times. Thick skulls run
in my family.

Even with pure ethanol the overdose needed to drive the reaction to the
product side seems to cause the Glycerine/excess ethanol mixture to become
so much less dense it does not settle out. I can evaporate the entire
mixture and then get the glycerine to settle out but that's an added process
step. How do you folks up north do it both from the small scale ethanol
production standpoint and the biodiesel using ethanol production standpoint?


One last question, do you have any information on that wonderful oil palm
that grows so well in your warmer regions. I was thinking of trying to plant
it here to see if it would grow in our somewhat cooler climate.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Irwin
  

-Original Message-
From: Pannir P.V
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 4/17/05 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future of Ethanol and Brazilian biofuel project

 Hello MH
   
Thank you bringing here  the Brazilian  biofuel project  and also  the
the developing world experience together  here.

One of the  the main problem of biofuel ethanol  project are  the
conflict of  food vs  fuel; the next is  the big scale and small scale
 production , the third is environmental problems  and the  finally
appropriate technology for sustainable  developments.

  The feed production for cattle has been increased  significantly 
from 10 cattle(1980) to several thousand cattle's  using sugar cane
bagasse as  cattle growing using the waste land is yet major economic
activity in Brazil , eventhoug not ecologically  unsustainable.The big
macro distillery built  even though are  not a good model but is
selling the small  agricultural  farmer  the steam treated
(autohydrolysis) and yeast as animal feed making the food .
  As well as  by crop rotation, the  reuse of the vinhasse  as the 
organic fertilizer , the Brazilian biofuel has ben   able to
successfully solve the  food versus fuel problems.All the state
government which has supported the  bioethanol has more dynamic
economic  developments to solve the food problems  than the states
that have only food crop production as the globalised  complicated   
markets  leading   some times the   total collapse of the internal
production of food.

  There are well mixed micro , mini and macro distillery has been
build up. Now days  small micro distillery are  made possible making
use of  the byproducts  even though it is not economically viable the 
 Small one compete Thea larger one.

   Brazilian biofuel  had very good  progress as pointed out  by 
David  here  to take care of  environmental  problems , not to burn
the  leafs , not  degrade wastes and effluent's .Thus with good
learning curve  Brasil has sucessfuly adopted the  high level as well
as  small scale production  of  bioethanol.

  The last , not the least , the appropriate  technology development 
for environmental benefits  has been always taken into account .

  Thus   Brazilian  technology  are more  Brasilian made  than
imported .thus this model is not only the  the biggest  biomass fuel
programme of the world  producing more than  1 billion liter of
alcohol. is really the one of the best  model too for other follow .

 The   new  Brasilian Bio D  is  expected  to be very big too 
where the poor .landless , small farmer and all are  expecting Brasil
help the world  the energy  crysis  by large scale export and 
correctly pointed by The Brasilian president Lula de Silva  that  we ,
Brasilian can  make to stop the war in the world  by the the Bio D
programme as the country is blessed with the best land and water
needed.

 Why export  soyabeans  for other make  Bio D , better Brasilian
do the same  , stop the world war .

  Surely  North America  can also do  as the  south.

Thus Americas future depend on the biofuel , alone are  united  there
is  a great green future for biofuel.

 Pease fell free to contact  us the brasilian , as we all have  the
wise  to share our  rich exeperiences , not to repeat the several
misatakes already  done by our goverment , big industrial people  and 
  the big petroleium companies  to put afuul stop to end  the
bioethanol programme.But yet it is  most alive , but lession learned 
are many.

Thanking  all

yours tru

Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing

[Kirk McLoren]

My daughter was in an Olds Cutlass Supreme, a 1975 tank.
She was rearended by an oxygen thief who admitted to the highway patrol that he 
wasn't looking where he was going. The Olds was totaled and she had some torn 
ligaments. She would have been dead in a puddlejumper. The simple physical fact 
is this -- mass always wins in a collision. Engineering is a plus but you can't 
out engineer a truck hitting a dinkie car. If we all drove small vehicles then 
great. Most of the losers have no money so they are herding old iron down the 
road and they are the same geniuses that drink and drive.
BTW he was going maybe 45mph, maybe even as slow as 35 - the vehicle was a 3/4 
ton pickup.
 
As for statistics it isn't always apparent what the risk is. Pickups have a bad 
history because of the airhead "cowboys" who drink and drive. It is the 
lifestyle. If they all drove VW then VW stats would be terrible. Also pickups 
are what you meet on the crappy gravel roads in Montana Idaho Dakota Wyoming 
etc. No vehicle can handle gravel as well as asphalt. And in the winter you 
have to have ground clearance because of snow. The Interstate may be graded the 
same day but I saw the road in front of my place go a week before the grader 
came. A compact would leave you walking. I dont recommend walking in a foot of 
snow when it is below zero. If you have children then you are double stuck.
 
Kirk


"J.L.Burney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
thats a very good argument. the nimble feeling i get driveing my vee dub 
makes me feel a bit on edge but i do think i would be able to avoid an 
accident much easyer if i was moveing. now take into account getting rear 
ended at a stop light? you cannot avoid anything while your not moveing. if 
you take into account the type of driveing i do then you will see that in my 
case i am much safer in a large vehicle. i drive in town stop and go trafic 
most of the time. the larger vehicle makes it easyer to see me in trafic 
when im actualy moveing and offers me the protection of a large massive 
object while sitting still in trafic. if a driver does lose controll and 
barrel into me i am less likely to be pushed into another vehicle. you can 
argue all day long about how some statistic says i am wrong but i have no 
idea what numbers they used how they collected those numbers and how they 
fit into my driveing style. eg.. are those numbers collected from accidents 
on higways or residential streets? who collected the data the insurance 
companys or the police? the purpose of the data collection has a huge input 
on how the data is collected and who it is collected from. the numbers from 
an insurance companys study isnt to save your life its to justify a rate 
increase.

as far as passenger death between a VW that seats 4 and a SUV that seats 8 
i would have to agree that the death toll for the SUV would probably be 2x 
as high per accident. again i also know that most people DO NOT KNOW how to 
drive a vehicle that has the kind of mass that mine does. it would take me 
at least 4 x the distance to come to a full stop in my SUV than in my VW on 
a city street on the highway that would incerase to 6-8x.

on a side note i would just like to thank you for argueing the facts instead 
of attacking me personaly.
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing


>A while back, someone (Keith) posted an article dealing with the difference 
>between ability to avoid an accident and the ability to survive an 
>accident. A look at the archives should find this article. There was a 
>table in the article showing the number of occupant deaths per 100,000 
>vehicles sold. The lowest? Toyota Camry and VW Jetta. The highest, Ford 
>F-150 if I remember correctly. Among the highest was also the Explorer, 
>Chevy Tahoe, etc. The moral of the story? Avoiding an accident offers the 
>greatest survivability, and this ability makes smaller vehicles safer. 
>Sorry, but your big SUV is not the bastion of safety you believe. It is 
>more of a lumbering deathtrap when the reality of the situation is 
>examined.
>
> As for being a reasonable adult, avoiding accidents is often a function of 
> the other guy no matter how reasonable your driving habits are.
>
> Brian
>
>  Original Message - 
> From: "J.L.Burney" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
>
>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Appal Energy" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
>>
>>
>>> Jay,
>>>
 because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my
 SUV.
>>>
>>> That's what everyone says. But the death tolls keep climbing.
>>
>> There must be
>>> an error in that sort of logic somewhere or there would be far fewer 
>>> grave
>>> markers.
>>
>> if you assume the people that have died in SUV roll

Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing

[J.L.Burney]

makes me feel a bit on edge but i do think i would be able to avoid an 
accident much easyer if i was moveing. now take into account getting rear 
ended at a stop light? you cannot avoid anything while your not moveing. if 
you take into account the type of driveing i do then you will see that in my 
case i am much safer in a large vehicle. i drive in town stop and go trafic 
most of the time. the larger vehicle makes it easyer to see me in trafic 
when im actualy moveing and offers me the protection of a large massive 
object while sitting still in trafic. if a driver does lose controll and 
barrel into me i am less likely to be pushed into another vehicle. you can 
argue all day long about how some statistic says i am wrong but i have no 
idea what numbers they used how they collected those numbers and how they 
fit into my driveing style. eg.. are those numbers collected from accidents 
on higways or residential streets? who collected the data the insurance 
companys or the police? the purpose of the data collection has a huge input 
on how the data is collected and who it is collected from. the numbers from 
an insurance companys study isnt to save your life its to justify a rate 
increase.


as far as passenger death between a VW that seats 4 and a SUV that seats 8 
i would have to agree that the death toll for the SUV would probably be 2x 
as high per accident. again i also know that most people DO NOT KNOW how to 
drive a vehicle that has the kind of mass that mine does. it would take me 
at least 4 x the distance to come to a full stop in my SUV than in my VW on 
a city street on the highway that would incerase to 6-8x.


on a side note i would just like to thank you for argueing the facts instead 
of attacking me personaly.
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing


A while back, someone (Keith) posted an article dealing with the difference 
between ability to avoid an accident and the ability to survive an 
accident. A look at the archives should find this article.  There was a 
table in the article showing the number of occupant deaths per 100,000 
vehicles sold. The lowest?  Toyota Camry and VW Jetta.  The highest, Ford 
F-150 if I remember correctly.  Among the highest was also the Explorer, 
Chevy Tahoe, etc.  The moral of the story?  Avoiding an accident offers the 
greatest survivability, and this ability makes smaller vehicles safer. 
Sorry, but your big SUV is not the bastion of safety you believe.  It is 
more of a lumbering deathtrap when the reality of the situation is 
examined.


As for being a reasonable adult, avoiding accidents is often a function of 
the other guy no matter how reasonable your driving habits are.


Brian

 Original Message - 
From: "J.L.Burney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing




- Original Message - 
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing



Jay,


because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my
SUV.


That's what everyone says. But the death tolls keep climbing.


There must be
an error in that sort of logic somewhere or there would be far fewer 
grave

markers.


if you assume the people that have died in SUV roll overs have all been 
useing logic (actualy reading the speedo)instead of a false sence of 
speed common when driveing somthing so massive coupled with being higher 
up off the road surface. it just luls your eyes into thinking you not 
takeing that turn at 45 mph. so you have to be very diligent.


i have my off road cert from the red cross.i know what i am doing when it 
comes to driveing. (man i miss that range rover)



yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL


Sorry. (Although I don't know why an apology would be in order.) You 
don't

"know" any such thing. Maybe your thought processes are partially out of
joint. Maybe your predilection with self-indulgence is a bit 
disconcerting.

But it takes a grand bit more to generate "hate." Chances are after two
beers have started to liberate some of those thought processes of your's 
I'd

move to another seat at the pub. But that's about where it stops.


your rite about the fact that i dont actualy "know" about your feelings 
in any way. i do find it funny that you chose to argue that part of the 
statement (the joke).


i dont drink at a pub or anywhere else. that must be the reason you think 
everyone else is just as impared as you when it comes to driveing. i hope 
you walk to this pub instead of drive.



 i also own a VW golf for the solo runs or anytime i dont need the
mototring mamoth. ever try to park one of those things sheesh!!! (both 
my

cars have WVO systems and i start and stop on bio D 

Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing

[Brian]

between ability to avoid an accident and the ability to survive an accident. 
A look at the archives should find this article.  There was a table in the 
article showing the number of occupant deaths per 100,000 vehicles sold. 
The lowest?  Toyota Camry and VW Jetta.  The highest, Ford F-150 if I 
remember correctly.  Among the highest was also the Explorer, Chevy Tahoe, 
etc.  The moral of the story?  Avoiding an accident offers the greatest 
survivability, and this ability makes smaller vehicles safer.  Sorry, but 
your big SUV is not the bastion of safety you believe.  It is more of a 
lumbering deathtrap when the reality of the situation is examined.


As for being a reasonable adult, avoiding accidents is often a function of 
the other guy no matter how reasonable your driving habits are.


Brian

 Original Message - 
From: "J.L.Burney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing




- Original Message - 
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing



Jay,


because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my
SUV.


That's what everyone says. But the death tolls keep climbing.


There must be
an error in that sort of logic somewhere or there would be far fewer 
grave

markers.


if you assume the people that have died in SUV roll overs have all been 
useing logic (actualy reading the speedo)instead of a false sence of speed 
common when driveing somthing so massive coupled with being higher up off 
the road surface. it just luls your eyes into thinking you not takeing 
that turn at 45 mph. so you have to be very diligent.


i have my off road cert from the red cross.i know what i am doing when it 
comes to driveing. (man i miss that range rover)



yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL


Sorry. (Although I don't know why an apology would be in order.) You 
don't

"know" any such thing. Maybe your thought processes are partially out of
joint. Maybe your predilection with self-indulgence is a bit 
disconcerting.

But it takes a grand bit more to generate "hate." Chances are after two
beers have started to liberate some of those thought processes of your's 
I'd

move to another seat at the pub. But that's about where it stops.


your rite about the fact that i dont actualy "know" about your feelings in 
any way. i do find it funny that you chose to argue that part of the 
statement (the joke).


i dont drink at a pub or anywhere else. that must be the reason you think 
everyone else is just as impared as you when it comes to driveing. i hope 
you walk to this pub instead of drive.



 i also own a VW golf for the solo runs or anytime i dont need the
mototring mamoth. ever try to park one of those things sheesh!!! (both 
my

cars have WVO systems and i start and stop on bio D 100) not because i
wanna save this or help that. its just fun to make the stuff.


A fair number of "ammended remarks" remarks in this post. If your 
previous

post were left to stand on its own merits, it wouldn't. And in large part
the portions you've left unaddressed or "rationalized" away with 
"feeling"

still don't.


i had a limitor installed (65 mph) max


Uh-huh... :-). Patch job at best. What about fixing the factory linkage
that runs from your foot to your brain?


nothings wrong with that linkage bud. i havnt had so much as a trafic 
ticket in 14 years.


Ever wonder what might happen if you were thirty miles from nowhere and 
had

to get an accident victim to the hospital before he or she bled to death?
Let me guess..., there's an override on it. :-)


actualy no there is no overide. in this area we have air service to the 
hospital. i would never try at any time to drive anyone that was bleeding 
to death anywhere. it just makes more sence to me to try to stop or hold 
back the bleeding untill the profesionals arive.


Todd Swearingen



- Original Message - 
From: "Craig Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing


Snip.

 > I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton
 > trucks, than my Geo Metro!  Because I see the
 > accidents first hand, frequently.  I can safely say
 > THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS!

 Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you
profess
 to witness "first hand" is not anyone "win[ning]." It's everyone losing
in
 situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of
people
 thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone
 elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. 
A

 large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes
nothing
 necessarily more survivable.

 Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately?

Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing

[J.L.Burney]

- Original Message - 
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing



Jay,


because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my
SUV.


That's what everyone says. But the death tolls keep climbing.


There must be

an error in that sort of logic somewhere or there would be far fewer grave
markers.


if you assume the people that have died in SUV roll overs have all been 
useing logic (actualy reading the speedo)instead of a false sence of speed 
common when driveing somthing so massive coupled with being higher up off 
the road surface. it just luls your eyes into thinking you not takeing that 
turn at 45 mph. so you have to be very diligent.


i have my off road cert from the red cross.i know what i am doing when it 
comes to driveing. (man i miss that range rover)



yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL


Sorry. (Although I don't know why an apology would be in order.) You don't
"know" any such thing. Maybe your thought processes are partially out of
joint. Maybe your predilection with self-indulgence is a bit 
disconcerting.

But it takes a grand bit more to generate "hate." Chances are after two
beers have started to liberate some of those thought processes of your's 
I'd

move to another seat at the pub. But that's about where it stops.


your rite about the fact that i dont actualy "know" about your feelings in 
any way. i do find it funny that you chose to argue that part of the 
statement (the joke).


i dont drink at a pub or anywhere else. that must be the reason you think 
everyone else is just as impared as you when it comes to driveing. i hope 
you walk to this pub instead of drive.



 i also own a VW golf for the solo runs or anytime i dont need the
mototring mamoth. ever try to park one of those things sheesh!!! (both my
cars have WVO systems and i start and stop on bio D 100) not because i
wanna save this or help that. its just fun to make the stuff.


A fair number of "ammended remarks" remarks in this post. If your previous
post were left to stand on its own merits, it wouldn't. And in large part
the portions you've left unaddressed or "rationalized" away with "feeling"
still don't.


i had a limitor installed (65 mph) max


Uh-huh... :-). Patch job at best. What about fixing the factory linkage
that runs from your foot to your brain?


nothings wrong with that linkage bud. i havnt had so much as a trafic ticket 
in 14 years.


Ever wonder what might happen if you were thirty miles from nowhere and 
had

to get an accident victim to the hospital before he or she bled to death?
Let me guess..., there's an override on it. :-)


actualy no there is no overide. in this area we have air service to the 
hospital. i would never try at any time to drive anyone that was bleeding to 
death anywhere. it just makes more sence to me to try to stop or hold back 
the bleeding untill the profesionals arive.


Todd Swearingen



- Original Message - 
From: "Craig Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing


Snip.

 > I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton
 > trucks, than my Geo Metro!  Because I see the
 > accidents first hand, frequently.  I can safely say
 > THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS!

 Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you
profess
 to witness "first hand" is not anyone "win[ning]." It's everyone losing
in
 situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of
people
 thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone
 elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. A
 large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes
nothing
 necessarily more survivable.

 Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately?
 Thought not.

Huge freaking Snip (LOL)

the first statement is fair enuff i realy dont have the facts to tell
wether or not my family is more or less safe in a huge honking SUV. the
fact is i "FEEL" that they are because i can drive like a reasonable 
adult

and i know the limits of my SUV. (2002 Ford Excursion) yea yea i know you
all hate my guts now (LOL). but take for example the news story i saw
tonight.a lady was driveing the same SUV that i own and she ran smack 
into

the rear end of a semi doing 80 mph while drinking on a residential
street. she didnt make it and the semi driver still got hurt.(it was an 
18

wheeler and he was pretty jacked up).
to make a point here bigger is safer when you cant controll the idiots
around you up to i would say 35-45mph anything over that and all that
metal thats "keeping you safe" is going to become the debris thats 
ripping

you in half, or more mess the jaws of life have to cut through while your
slowling bleeding to death.

personal note: i do not own 

Re: [Biofuel] Future of Ethanol and Brazilian biofuel project

[Pannir P.V]

 Hello MH
   
Thank you bringing here  the Brazilian  biofuel project  and also  the
the developing world experience together  here.

One of the  the main problem of biofuel ethanol  project are  the
conflict of  food vs  fuel; the next is  the big scale and small scale
 production , the third is environmental problems  and the  finally
appropriate technology for sustainable  developments.

  The feed production for cattle has been increased  significantly 
from 10 cattle(1980) to several thousand cattle's  using sugar cane
bagasse as  cattle growing using the waste land is yet major economic
activity in Brazil , eventhoug not ecologically  unsustainable.The big
macro distillery built  even though are  not a good model but is
selling the small  agricultural  farmer  the steam treated
(autohydrolysis) and yeast as animal feed making the food .
  As well as  by crop rotation, the  reuse of the vinhasse  as the 
organic fertilizer , the Brazilian biofuel has ben   able to
successfully solve the  food versus fuel problems.All the state
government which has supported the  bioethanol has more dynamic
economic  developments to solve the food problems  than the states
that have only food crop production as the globalised  complicated   
markets  leading   some times the   total collapse of the internal
production of food.

  There are well mixed micro , mini and macro distillery has been
build up. Now days  small micro distillery are  made possible making
use of  the byproducts  even though it is not economically viable the 
 Small one compete Thea larger one.

   Brazilian biofuel  had very good  progress as pointed out  by 
David  here  to take care of  environmental  problems , not to burn
the  leafs , not  degrade wastes and effluent's .Thus with good
learning curve  Brasil has sucessfuly adopted the  high level as well
as  small scale production  of  bioethanol.

  The last , not the least , the appropriate  technology development 
for environmental benefits  has been always taken into account .

  Thus   Brazilian  technology  are more  Brasilian made  than
imported .thus this model is not only the  the biggest  biomass fuel
programme of the world  producing more than  1 billion liter of
alcohol. is really the one of the best  model too for other follow .

 The   new  Brasilian Bio D  is  expected  to be very big too 
where the poor .landless , small farmer and all are  expecting Brasil
help the world  the energy  crysis  by large scale export and 
correctly pointed by The Brasilian president Lula de Silva  that  we ,
Brasilian can  make to stop the war in the world  by the the Bio D
programme as the country is blessed with the best land and water
needed.

 Why export  soyabeans  for other make  Bio D , better Brasilian
do the same  , stop the world war .

  Surely  North America  can also do  as the  south.

Thus Americas future depend on the biofuel , alone are  united  there
is  a great green future for biofuel.

 Pease fell free to contact  us the brasilian , as we all have  the
wise  to share our  rich exeperiences , not to repeat the several
misatakes already  done by our goverment , big industrial people  and 
  the big petroleium companies  to put afuul stop to end  the
bioethanol programme.But yet it is  most alive , but lession learned 
are many.

Thanking  all

yours truely

sd
Pannir selvam
Brasil.




On 4/17/05, MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  David Morris is vice president of
>  the Minneapolis-based
>  Institute for Local Self-Reliance.
> 
>  THE FUTURE OF ETHANOL
>  David Morris
>  April 16, 2005
>  http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5351029.html
> 
>  Want to see the potential of biofuels?
>  Visit Brazil, as I did a few weeks ago.
> 
>  In Brazil, by law, all gasoline contains a minimum of
>  25 percent alcohol. Yet ethanol is so popular it
>  actually accounts for 40 percent of all vehicle fuel.
> 
>  By 2007, 100 percent of all new Brazilian cars may be able to
>  run on 100 percent ethanol. Brazilian sugar-cane-fed biorefineries
>  will be capable of producing sufficient ethanol to allow the
>  entire fleet, new and old cars alike, to do so.
> 
>  In Brazil, ethanol is now being used in aviation. Small planes,
>  like crop dusters, are switching to ethanol because it is a
>  superior fuel and is more widely available, even in remote parts
>  of the country, than conventional aviation fuel.
> 
>  Its stunning success with ethanol has encouraged Brazil to
>  begin displacing diesel fuel with vegetable oils from its
>  vast soybean crop. Within 15 years it expects to substitute
>  biodiesel for 20 percent of its conventional diesel.
> 
>  One more detail. Back in the mid 1990s, Brazil ended its
>  ethanol subsidies. Nevertheless, with world oil prices
>  hovering around $55 a barrel, the price of ethanol today
>  is only half that of gasoline. Since its inception,
>  Brazil's ethanol program has displaced imported oil
>  worth $120 billion. This is co

[Biofuel] Biodiesel/SVO filtration

[Chris]

Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

SVO and biodiesel interchangeably.  Oh well.

  Chris K
  Cayce, SC



  More From The Ann Arbor News   |   Subscribe To The Ann Arbor News
  Saline's Davco Technology sees a future in biodiesel filtration
  Small but growing demand for system a matter of adapting its core 
product
  Sunday, April 17, 2005
  BY BRYCE G. HOFFMAN
  News Business Reporter
  One local company that has started cashing in on green technology is 
Davco Technology LLC, which is looking to end its dependence on the trucking 
industry by producing fuel filtration systems for the small but growing 
biodiesel market.

  Founded in 1976, Saline-based Davco specializes in producing diesel 
fuel filtration systems that are widely used by trucking companies on large 
tractor-trailer rigs. Davco's systems filter the fuel, remove water from it 
and can even heat it - a big concern in northern climes where cold 
temperatures can cause the diesel to gel.

  "It's a heavily patented product," said Davco's president, Nick 
Vermet.

 Advertisement






  Davco's product is more expensive than those of its competitors', but 
Vermet said his company has managed to take more than 42 percent of the 
market because its units save customers money in the long run.

  "They lower your vehicular operating costs and they increase your 
vehicle up-time," he said. "We're not an automotive supplier trying to beat 
up on other suppliers to make a few cents. We're not in the bid business."

  The filters account for nearly 90 percent of Davco's business, though 
the company also manufactures oil level management systems.

  Most of Davco's customers are big trucking companies, like Ann 
Arbor-based Con-Way Transportation Services Inc.

  "They've been standardized on all of our heavy-duty and medium 
tractors for a number of years," said Bill Fowler, director of maintenance 
for Con-Way.

  "The Con-Ways have been very satisfied with them," he said, referring 
to the firm's multiple divisions. "It's been a very good product."

  It has been very successful, too. According to Vermet, the privately 
held company - owned by Penske Corp. - had net sales of $18 million in 2003, 
$27.6 million in 2004 and is projected to have sales of $30 million in 2005.

  "Our profits look even better," he said, though he would not divulge 
any figures.

  But Vermet also said Davco's fortunes have been closely tied to the 
highly cyclical trucking industry. When Vermet was hired in December of 
2003, he was charged with taking the company into new markets.

  Enter biodiesel.

  Biodiesel is a comparatively clean-burning fuel produced from 
vegetable oil or other organic sources. It can be used in modified diesel 
engines or blended with petroleum-based diesel and used in regular diesels.

  Vermet said biodiesel is still a cottage industry, led by 
environmentalists.

  The more ambitious of these early adopters fill their tanks with used 
cooking oil that is often laced with impurities like French fry particles 
and fragments of fish filets. It needs to be run through a heavy duty filter 
like Davco's before it hits the engine. And it is even more susceptible to 
the cold than regular diesel.

  That is where Davco, with its heated filtration systems, comes in.

  "Customers were calling us up and saying, 'Is your unit compatible 
with biodiesel?"' Vermet said.

  How did these biodiesel pioneers learn about Davco? Vermet is not 
sure, but in his mind's eye he sees a long-haired "tree-hugger" sidling up 
to a burly trucker at a truck stop and asking him how he keeps his diesel 
clean and warm.

  "I really think it was that simple," he said. "That's when our phone 
started ringing."

  Vermet was the one who answered it.

  To help get a better handle on the company's business, Vermet put 
himself in the rotation to answer calls to Davco's main number. It did not 
take long before he got one inquiring about biodiesel, and only a few more 
to convince him of its marketing potential. The result has been a series of 
new filtration systems designed specifically for biodiesel users. The 
biodiesel units have stronger heaters and better seals.

  "It's our core product, adapted," Vermet said. "You make it on the 
same assembly line."

  While most of Davco's regular units are sold in volume to major 
companies with large vehicle fleets, the biodiesel units are purchased 
primarily by individuals looking to modify their own vehicles or small shops 
offering biodiesel conversions.

  However, he said some large corporations are already looking at using 
biodiesel in their vehicle fleets - including Wal-Mart, which has purchased 
a few of Davco's biodiesel units for evaluation purposes.

  Today, biodiesel systems only account for a smal

Re: [Biofuel] Diesel moped car...2 things!

[Greg Harbican]

I suspect that the reason that the smaller engine get's worse mileage, is
the fact that their is a point with all other things being equal, that
smaller engines have to work harder to move the same amount of weight, with
a corresponding increase in fuel use.This is more evident on hills and
starting from stops ( so city driving is going to cause more fuel
consumption than with the larger engine ).

My LandCruiser, has a 4 cylinder diesel, that works very hard, in town, with
stops and starts on some steep hills, if I go to a 6 cylinder diesel, I
figure that I at very least, I will see the same mileage for improved
performance and I might actualy will actualy see an improvement in mileage
for city driving, for 2 reasons.
1st) I live at 5500 ft, and the current 4 cylinder engine starts having
problems breathing at 3000 ft, and I have to run it a little rich and I
still lose some horse power.The 6 cylinder engine doesn't have problems
breathing until 7000 ft, and the power loss is not as steep when it starts
to loose power.
2) The engine will not have to work as hard as the 4 cyl does ( with a
corresponding increase in fuel use ) up hill and starting from stops, so the
6 cyl will not have to have as rich mixture as the 4 cyl does.

At idle, my engine turns over at about 650-700 rpm, on the flat, at 55 mph
( in 5th gear ), I'm only running the engine at about 1200-1500 rpm.I
figure I can decrease in even further if I can locate an overdrive, that
will give me in effect a 6th gear.I am, looking at some other things
like water injection and putting on a turbo, that should improve it even
further.

If the 4 cyl engine of the mopeds, is doing 900 rpm to move the moped at 30
mph, the engine of the 2 cyl engine is probably doing 1300 to move the same
amount of weight at the same speed.

Greg H.


- Original Message - 
From: "Go Hoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 12:56
Subject: [Biofuel] Diesel moped car...2 things!





>
> 2nd!
> If a modern 4 cyl diesel engine can do 10km on 6 dl diesel at mixed speeds
> of up to 120 kmh how come a 2 cyl diesel only gets 3.5 dl for the same
> distance at a lot less than half that speed? It's all weight I suppose -
or?
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%

[subramanian D.V]

Thank you Mr. Roy for yr helpful comments
 
Regards,
DVS

ROY Washbish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi DVS
It was YOUR question but it sure interests me also. 
I sure hope no one was REALLY put out by your use of acetone. I feel that they 
were actually looking for someone with TEST equipment of offer to do a more 
accepted engineering test. I guess we have a bunch of engineers here and that's 
fine. We could get some better info in the long run from them but in the mean 
time we could do as you have and do our own testing in our cars or whatever we 
have and share the info.
~BEST~
Roy

"subramanian D.V" wrote:

Hi ,

Gasolene( petrol ) costs in India about 95 cents a liter, roughly twice of its 
price in U.S. And is edging up towards a dollar and more. The possibility of 
getting more mileage by mixing with a small dose of acetone came up from a mail 
posted in this list. As one of the middle class using a car & trying to balance 
my budget I decided to give it a try. I’ve not even asked anybody else to try 
and report. 

I only put a harmless query about the difference between commercial acetone and 
lab quality acetone and added a footnote whether anybody else has tried this 
acetone mix & with what results. I seem to have caused a minor Tsunami.

If my experiment does not measure upto expectation, I have not hurt anybody 
else O.K.

Thank you all for yr comments.
Regards,
D.V.S


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Roy Washbish 
Certified Health Coach 
A HOME BUSINESS & PRODUCTS THAT WORK
PRODUCTS & BUSINESS HTTP://WWW.TRIVITA.COM/11393920











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Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%

[subramanian D.V]

Thank you Doug, 
The experiment is for " on the road driving under normal driving conditions" 
for two months and only to see whether there is a mileage increase or not.
I'll certainly keep an eye on plastic and rubber parts. 
 
Thank you Keith for yr encouragement and infmn that comml acetone is OK 
 
Regards,
 
D.V.S


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What worries me is that acetone is a super solvent, and I suspect it would
have drastic effects on any plastic parts (gaskets?) or rubber parts
(o-rings?) in your fuel system. If they don't dissolve, they might swell.


Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario


On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Keith Addison wrote:


>  It's
> unlikely that you'll do your car any harm, please go ahead with your
> plan, and please do keep us informed of the results.
>
> By the way, I'm sure you don't need lab-quality acetone, I think the
> first message in the thread implied that by saying it was a widely
> available chemical, easy to get. Try it with commercial-grade.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>

>
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Re: [Biofuel] Gas & Electric Vehicle Symposium in Monaco

[Michael]

 Although LPG is a much smarter idea than the freedom car with hydrogen that
would misuse even more LPG to make hydrogen, it is something that will make
LPG even more scarce and expensive.
Michael
http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com/grandchildren.htm#17

- Original Message - 
From: "Frantz DESPREZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:23 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Gas & Electric Vehicle Symposium in Monaco


> While Prince Rainier was dying...
>
> http://www.clean-auto.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=559
>
> Monaco - Monday 4th April 2005
> EVS 21 - CFBP and the WLPGA present Autogas Hybrid Electric Vehicle
> Exhibition
>
> Other thematics :
> • Symposium: http://www.clean-auto.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=558
> • General information :
> http://www.clean-auto.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=566
>
>
>
>
> On the occasion of the 21st Worldwide Battery, Hybrid and Fuel Cell
> Electric Vehicle Symposium in Monaco, the French Propane and Butane
> Federation (CFBP) and the World LP Gas Association (WLPGA) will showcase
> a new prototype hybrid electric passenger vehicle engineered to run on
> clean Liquefied Petroleum Gas (Autogas).
>
> RM Gaz in close collaboration with the CFBP and the French Petroleum
> Institute (IFP) took a major step in improving the environmental
> performance of HEV’s with the introduction of the Toyota Prius II hybrid
> operating on Autogas. The revolutionary vehicle delivers the same fuel
> economy and dependability associated with standard electric hybrid
> technology - plus the added advantages of utilizing an
> environmentally-friendly alternative fuel.
>
> Autogas has long delivered emissions advantages over conventional petrol
> and diesel fuels. The world’s most widely used alternative fuel has
> undergone rigorous scientific testing, with test results yielding 50%
> less carbon monoxide, 40% less hydrocarbons, 35% less nitrogen oxides
> (NOx) and 50% less ozone forming potential compared to petrol. When it
> comes to limiting greenhouse gases, the Toyota Prius Autogas prototype
> emits only 92 g/km2 of CO2 from the tailpipe, or 11.5% less than the
> petrol version.
>
> In addition to its environmental strengths, Autogas delivers a number of
> economic advantages to motorists. Due to its environmentally-friendly
> characteristics, autogas enjoys fuel excise tax exemptions that can make
> the final pump price far lower than petrol in many countries. In the
> hybrid format, only half volume of fuel will be needed to travel the
> same distance as a conventional vehicle - further leveraging the price
> discounts and delivering major cost savings to motorists who choose the
> exciting new autogas hybrid vehicle.
>
> Official Web sites :
> www.worldlpgas.com
>
> On the Web :
> • EVS21 Monaco exhibition. The exhibition will take place in the
> Grimaldi Forum’s Espace Ravel, a 4,000 m² area at the heart of the
> Conference Centre, looking out onto the Mediterranean Sea... In addition
> to Symposium delegates, numerous international city, community and
> corporate representatives will be present to view the latest models on
> show, which will also create a real “business to business” meeting.
>
>
>
>
>
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[Biofuel] Solar powered seed oil extraction

[Charles A. Leveque, III]

To all,

Dr. Joseph Mpagalile of Tanzania, is just completing a
9 month Fulbright Scholarship, which was available
through our US State Department, at The University of
Nebraska at Lincoln, NB.

His successful project was the completion of a SOLAR
powered seed oil extraction device, which he will be
taking back to Tanzania on May 6, 2005 for use in
small villages back home.

He and his colleagues, in East Africa, are in the
process of creating an NGO by the name of "SEEDS OF
HOPE" to further their ideas and goals.

His email address is, 

Dr. Joseph Mpagalile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

for further information, which will probably not
really be available until he gets back home and
re-settles in, as he is very busy now wrapping up.

We think that he deserves your attention.

Charles A. Leveque, III
President, CEO
Global Green 21 Ltd.
www.gg21ltd.com



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RE: [Biofuel] 'Changing World Technologies' Plan to Turn Garbage into Oil

[Tom Irwin]

To All,

I agree with the good doctor«s assessment of changing garbage into oil.
However, I think there is enormous potential in tapping the gas produced
from sanitary landfills. It«s already being done in many places. There are
some good zeolite processes for removing the CO2 from the CH4 to get nearly
pure components. There«s also been some excellent work on wet cell landfill
design but for the life of me I cannot recall the gentleman«s name. I think
he was at the University of Pittsburgh in PA. The last I read U.S. solid
waste comprised about 50% or 60% organic matter. Other countries may be
higher or lower depending in  organic material.

Tom Irwin

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14/04/05 12:46
Subject: [Biofuel] 'Changing World Technologies' Plan to Turn Garbage into
Oil

http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2005/Changing-World-Technologies-P 
almer9apr05.htm
Comments on 'Changing World Technologies' Plan to Turn Garbage into 
Oil PAUL PALMER, Ph.D., CHEMIST / Getting To Zero Waste 9apr2005
Comments on 'Changing World Technologies' Plan to
Turn Garbage into Oil

PAUL PALMER, Ph.D., CHEMIST / Getting To Zero Waste 9apr2005
http://www.gettingtozerowaste.com

Paul Palmer, Ph.D., Physical Chemistry, Yale 1973*

[More on Changing World Technologies]
http://tinyurl.com/4pbl2


Q
Mr. Palmer: Is there anything specific that you know to be inaccurate 
or misleading about our story on turkey fuel?
-- Dan Goodgame, managing editor, Fortune Small Business (FSB)

A
Dan: First of all, when I discuss these bogus claims I am not 
restricting myself to your article alone. These snake oil salesmen 
have been peddling their little story thru a number of media starting 
with Discover magazine in May 2003. I have been pointing out to 
anyone who will listen how fraudulent it all is ever since then.

This deception starts with the ignorance of the American public who 
have bought the convenient story that there is such a thing as 
garbage. In fact there are ten million different kinds of products 
that become excess. They are all radically different. But the public 
chooses to believe that it can all be summed under the rubric of 
garbage and once you do that, all those radically different inputs 
have now suddenly become the same thing. Then we are fed the delusion 
that all we need to do is "get rid of it". It doesn't really matter 
how. We have had serious suggestions that we can fill up the Grand 
Canyon with it, cause it to disappear in molten salts, in plasma 
fusion devices and in garbage treatment plants called Materials 
Recovery Facilities. Or put it all in rocket ships headed for outer 
space. All of these proposals that got into trials share some 
important characteristics. They make huge profits for the garbage 
industry and the public pays up front for all the costs. Now along 
comes one more scheme for playing on the gullibility of a public that 
is so dumb it actually believes that a complex technological society, 
such as ours, can rip and strip the earth of all its resources, use 
them transiently, then somehow destroy them all, and still continue 
to leave a thriving planet for future generations. As though the 
earth is some kind of a magic lamp we can rub and the genie will 
continue to bestow upon us any gift we request. This concept is 
idiotic, and any company that seeks to effectuate the "getting rid 
of" part of this scheme is selling a bill of goods leading to 
planetary suicide. But this may not be sufficiently specific to your 
article to satisfy you.

I will back up to the beginning and pick apart the very heading of 
the article that began this all in Discover. It began with the 
heading "Anything into Oil" and proceeded in the article to flesh 
this out so: "The process is designed to handle almost any waste 
product imaginable, including turkey offal, tires, plastic bottles, 
harbor-dredged muck, old computers, municipal garbage, cornstalks, 
paper-pulp effluent, infectious medical waste, oil-refinery residues, 
even biological weapons such as anthrax spores. " Now in your 
article, you, or the claimants, hoping no doubt to have a prayer of 
passing the giggle test, have backed off a bit by only saying this 
much: "The company says its process works on tires, various hazardous 
wastes, and plastic as well as heavy metals. " Most emphatically none 
of this can pass the giggle test but let me ask you, do you 
understand what is being said here? You are saying that this company 
has a process which can turn steel into oil (just to select one of 
the more obvious idiocies). Do you know that steel is almost a pure 
element, namely iron, which no chemical process can convert to 
carbon? Are you familiar with the alchemist's search for 
transmutation in which they tried to turn base metals into gold? At 
least they didn't turn base metals into carbon and hydrogen, which is 
pretty much what oil is. This conversion just happens to contravene 
the laws

[Biofuel] Massachusetts Bioheat Seminar

[TILAPIA]

Despite the Best Laid Plans...

Please be notified that this seminar, scheduled for April 28, 2005 in 
Westboro, MA has been POSTPONED, since most of the participants are out there 
trying 
to buy more petroleum oil. This event will be rescheduled when the buying 
frenzy has faded.

Tom Leue



-
Homestead Inc.
www.yellowbiodiesel.com

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RE: [Biofuel] US Takes the Lead in Trashing Planet

[Tom Irwin]

To All,

I wonder how long that Japanese and Chinese cooperation is going to continue
given the last few days of protests and Japanese business trashings taking
place. It seems we have some new folks in ancient conflict over oil. For a
while there, it seemed that many Chinese were making a go of sustainable
development. Perhaps these efforts were mostly in rural areas. Climate
change could really hammer China badly and yet their attempting to import
more poison. Isn«t the Chinese capital in danger from desertification
already? It«s like a game. Gee, let«s see what happens when we disrupt the
monsoon rains. Perhaps my country«s myopia is contagious.

Tom Irwin
 

-Original Message-
From: Charles A. Leveque, III
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15/04/05 20:50
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Takes the Lead in Trashing Planet

To all,

Regarding increasing the CO2 absorption rate, consider
massive plantings of the KENAF plant as it has one of
the highest exchange ratios of the plant world. China
is now growing over a MILLION acres, mostly for
non-wood fiber newsprint with a lot of financial
backing from Japan.

Charles A. Leveque, III
President, CEO
Global Green 21 Ltd.
www.gg21ltd.com
 
--- John Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Nehring wrote:
> 
> > One may think this argument is silly (and feel
> free to criticize -
> > especially if the facts are off. However, if the
> facts are off, please
> > cite sources for correct facts!) However, this
> leads me to think that
> > since so much CO2 production is unavoidable
> (breathing is a right:-)),
> > maybe we should focus on increasing CO2 absorption
> instead of decreasing
> > output. 
> 
> 
> Michael.
> 
> The problem isn't with your calculations. Instead, I
> think the problem 
> occurs because you haven't distinguished between
> carbon that way already 
> part of the carbon cycle, and carbon that was
> sequestered underground 
> for millions of years.
> 
> That is, the problem with carbon emissions isn't the
> total amount 
> emitted, but rather the amount of additional carbon
> introduced into the 
> system every year.
> 
> jh
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[Biofuel] Green Car Congress

[MH]

 http://www.greencarcongress.com 

 April 15, 2005 
 - VW Abandons its 1-liter Car Project 
 - ZAP Exceeds $500M in Orders for Smart Car 

 April 14, 2005 
 - Novozymes and NREL Reduce Cost of Enzymes for
 Biomass-to-Ethanol Production 30-Fold 
 - US House Energy Committee Shoots Down
 Increases in Fuel Efficiency 

 April 13, 2005 
 - Governors Ethanol Coalition Recommends $800M Push
 on Ethanol Production from Biomass
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[Biofuel] Future of Ethanol

[MH]

 David Morris is vice president of
 the Minneapolis-based
 Institute for Local Self-Reliance. 


 THE FUTURE OF ETHANOL 
 David Morris 
 April 16, 2005 
 http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5351029.html 

 Want to see the potential of biofuels?
 Visit Brazil, as I did a few weeks ago.

 In Brazil, by law, all gasoline contains a minimum of
 25 percent alcohol. Yet ethanol is so popular it
 actually accounts for 40 percent of all vehicle fuel.

 By 2007, 100 percent of all new Brazilian cars may be able to
 run on 100 percent ethanol. Brazilian sugar-cane-fed biorefineries
 will be capable of producing sufficient ethanol to allow the
 entire fleet, new and old cars alike, to do so.

 In Brazil, ethanol is now being used in aviation. Small planes,
 like crop dusters, are switching to ethanol because it is a
 superior fuel and is more widely available, even in remote parts
 of the country, than conventional aviation fuel.

 Its stunning success with ethanol has encouraged Brazil to
 begin displacing diesel fuel with vegetable oils from its
 vast soybean crop. Within 15 years it expects to substitute
 biodiesel for 20 percent of its conventional diesel.

 One more detail. Back in the mid 1990s, Brazil ended its
 ethanol subsidies. Nevertheless, with world oil prices
 hovering around $55 a barrel, the price of ethanol today
 is only half that of gasoline. Since its inception,
 Brazil's ethanol program has displaced imported oil
 worth $120 billion. This is comparable to a savings of
 almost $2 trillion for a U.S.-sized economy.

 Back in Minnesota, our vehicles remain stuck at the
 10 percent ethanol level first achieved almost a decade ago.
 Yet today, ethanol produced within the state could displace
 25 percent of gasoline consumed within the state.
 Without increasing crop acreage, Minnesota could become
 self-sufficient in passenger-vehicle fuel and
 significantly displace diesel fuels. 

 Minnesota arrived at this enviable situation as a result
 of farsighted state policies. In the early 1980s the
 state ethanol incentive mirrored the federal incentive
 -- a partial exemption from the gasoline tax. That
 incentive increased demand, but every drop of ethanol
 was imported into the state.

 In the mid 1980s, Minnesota's farmers successfully
 petitioned the Legislature to restructure the state
 incentive to encourage in-state production of ethanol.

 The incentive became a direct payment of 20 cents per gallon.
 There were limits: The ethanol had to be produced in Minnesota.
 The incentive was available only for the first 15 million gallons
 produced each year. The incentive lasted only for 10 years per plant.

 The restructured incentive has made Minnesota home to 15 small- and
 medium-sized ethanol plants (18 by the end of 2005). The biorefineries'
 relatively small size has enabled a significant proportion of the state's
 full-time grain farmers to become owners. This dramatically boosts the
 local economic benefit of such facilities. 

 Because of the incentive's time limit, within the next year or two,
 more than half of all state ethanol production will receive no incentive.
 Several new plants are being built without a state incentive.

 Brazil has shown us that biofuels can be a primary fuel rather than
 simply a gasoline additive. Here are seven policies Minnesota should
 adopt to imitate Brazil's success.

 1. Immediately request a waiver from the federal government to allow a
 20 percent ethanol blend in all vehicles. Gov. Tim Pawlenty has
 indicated his desire to do so. The request should come from many
 states, not just one, and the cost of all the required testing should be
 shared by these states. If all 29 states whose governors have joined the
 Governors Ethanol Coalition chipped in, the cost would be a trivial
 $100,000 per state. 

 2. Aggressively expand the number of Minnesota gas stations that offer
 ethanol as a primary fuel (E85). Adding $15 million to the state bonding
 bill would enable every gas station in Minnesota to have at least one
 E85 pump. 

 3. Require all governments in Minnesota to purchase flexible-fueled
 vehicles. Several dozen popular models are already available and on
 the roads.

 4. Develop a 20 percent renewable transportation fuels mandate that
 mirrors the 20 percent renewable electricity portfolio mandate that
 many states have passed.

 5. Inspire a public discussion about redesigning the federal biofuels
 incentives so that they are tied to the price of oil. If oil rises above a
 certain level (say, $60 per barrel) the incentive would completely
 disappear. If it drops below a certain level (say, $35 per barrel) it
 would be equal to the current incentive.

 6. Focus on converting the state's abundant cellulosic materials into
 energy. Brazilian biorefineries are virtually energy self-sufficient because
 they burn bagasse to power and heat the mill and refineries. Bagasse,
 the fiber fraction of cane, is brought to the mill along with the sugar
 cane. I

[Biofuel] Ethanol IndyCar Racing

[MH]

 Corn-based ethanol to fuel Indy 500
 LIBBY QUAID
 Associated Press
 Mar. 02, 2005
 
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/politics/11033860.htm
 
 --- 

 ETHANOL TO FUEL THE INDYCAR SERIES!
 3/3/2005
 http://www.pauldana.com/pages/whatsnew.asp?whatarticleID=20

 WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The IndyCar Series always has been
 recognized for its technical leadership in automobile racing.
 Now it will be the motorsports leader in renewable and
 environmentally responsible energy. 

 The ethanol industry has partnered with the IndyCar Series
 to become the fuel supplier beginning with the 2006 season. 

 Announcement of the partnership was made at
 Union Station in Washington, D.C., where
 Indy Racing League CEO Tony George,
 IRL President and COO Brian Barnhart and
 Senior Vice President of Business Affairs Ken Ungar
 teamed with several high-ranking ethanol industry leaders
 and political figures, including Sen. Jim Talent, R-Mo.,
 Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., and Sen. John Thune, R-S.D. 

 Ethanol is an alcohol derived primarily from grain.
 As a clean-burning and renewable fuel that is
 non-toxic and 100 percent biodegradable, it reduces
 air pollution and improves racingâs environmental footprint.
 Its high octane rating delivers strong engine performance by
 helping engines resist detonation so they can run
 higher compression ratios. 

 The target for the 2006 season is a maximum blend of
 90 percent methanol and 10 percent ethanol for the
 IndyCar Series. The percentage of ethanol corresponds with
 ethanol blend commonly available to consumers at gas stations.
 Blend specifics will be determined in cooperation with the
 leagueâs 2006 engine manufacturer partners. 

 Beginning in 2007, the fuel will be
 100 percent fuel-grade ethanol in IndyCar Series cars,
 the same fuel that has the potential to replace at least
 10 percent of the nationâs gasoline supply. 

 In his February State of the Union address,
 President George W. Bush recognized ethanol as a
 reliable supply of affordable, environmentally responsible energy. 

 ãMy budget provides strong funding for leading-edge technology
 ö from hydrogen-fueled cars, to clean coal, to renewable sources
 such as ethanol,ä he said during the Feb. 2 address. 

 ãWe are proud to partner with the ethanol industry
 to showcase a great American fuel source,ä Ungar said.
 ãWe feel a commitment to the environment and our
 countryâs energy security is consistent with our
 sportâs legacy of race-bred innovation and leadership.ä 

 The Indy Racing League ö the sanctioning body of the
 IndyCar Series -- has been in discussion for several years
 with a coalition of ethanol industry companies led by
 the major ethanol facility engineering and construction
 firms IMC Inc., Fagen Inc., and Broin Companies.
 Other groups involved in the discussion were the
 ethanol trade and advocacy groups, including the
 Renewable Fuels Association in Washington, D.C.,
 the American Coalition of Ethanol in Sioux Falls, S.D.,
 the United States Senate Biofuels Caucus and
 the Governorâs Ethanol Coalition. 

 Race car engines operating on ethanol have demonstrated
 excellent performance because of the fuelâs high octane content.
 IndyCar Series cars have run on methanol fuel since the late 1960s,
 and will continue to do so during the 2005 season.
 Internal dynamometer testing has shown that there are
 no technical barriers to replacing methanol with ethanol. 

 ãThe transition between methanol and ethanol in our cars
 should be very smooth,ä IRL Senior Technical Director
 Phil Casey said. ãOur cars wonât sound differently,
 smell differently or run differently than they have
 in the past. There will be a seamless transition
 from methanol to ethanol in our cars.ä 

 Ethanol is the only proven commercial scale
 renewable transportation fuel currently available in the
 marketplace. The 2006 season will not be the first time
 ethanol fuel has powered a car in the famed Indianapolis 500.
 At the 1927 race, a car driven by Leon Duray was fueled by
 ethyl (grain) alcohols. 

 ãEthanol has long been common in many Midwest markets, and
 over the last several years it has succeeded in meeting
 market demand in California and the Northeast,ä said
 Dave Vander Griend, president of ICM, Inc.
 ãProduction capacity for ethanol is keeping pace with
 the increased demand for quality fuel additives, and
 we are partnering with our petroleum customers as we
 move into new markets. We are extremely proud of
 this partnership with the IndyCar Series, and are eager to
 demonstrate the quality and performance of our product
 on the world stage.ä 

 To help build anticipation and awareness, the
 ethanol industry is sponsoring one entry in
 this yearâs IndyCar Series lineup. The No. 91
 Ethanol Hemelgarn Dallara/Toyota/Firestone entry
 will be driven by Paul Dana. Team owner Ron Hemelgarn
 was one of the founding members of the Indy Racing League,
 and his cars won the 1996 Indianapolis 500 and
 the 20

Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%

[dwoodard]

Acetone is a perfectly good motor fuel ingredient, all other things being
equal. Sir Harry Ricardo and colleagues used it in Castrol "R" motor
racing fuel in the early 1920's, a mixture designed to have extreme heat
of vapourization and charge density with high knock resistance. They used
the acetone to get a soluble mixture incorporating benzene (I think)
and water, plus ethanol if memory serves. See Ricardo's memoirs, "Memories
and Machines."

What worries me is that acetone is a super solvent, and I suspect it would
have drastic effects on any plastic parts (gaskets?) or rubber parts
(o-rings?) in your fuel system. If they don't dissolve, they might swell.

Also, the purported function of the acetone in this case (reducing
unburned fuel) makes no engineering sense to me at all. In a gasoline
engine in good condition and good tune, there should not be enough
unburned fuel to be of more than negligible *thermodynamic* significance.
The suggested mechanism by which the acetone is said to reduce unburned
fuel dosn't make any sense to me. It does though have a certain family
resemblance to "miracle carburetor" hype which I have encountered.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario


On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Keith Addison wrote:

> Hi D.V.
>
> >Hi ,
> >
> >Gasolene( petrol ) costs in India about 95 cents a liter, roughly
> >twice of its price in U.S. And is edging up towards a dollar and
> >more. The possibility of getting more mileage by mixing with a small
> >dose of acetone came up from a mail posted in this list. As one of
> >the middle class using a car & trying to balance my budget I decided
> >to give it a try. I’ve not even asked anybody else to try and report.
> >
> >I only put a harmless query about the difference between commercial
> >acetone and lab quality acetone and added a footnote whether anybody
> >else has tried this acetone mix & with what results. I seem to have
> >caused a minor Tsunami.
> >
> >If my experiment does not measure upto expectation, I have not hurt
> >anybody else O.K.
>
> Certainly you haven't. I don't think anyone was trying to get at you.
> There are a lot of scams and bad information about magic bullets that
> boost fuel economy, so it's as well that any such claims get a close
> examination. But you've had some encouragement too. I very much agree
> with Roy's reply to you, I'd guess that most list members do. It's
> unlikely that you'll do your car any harm, please go ahead with your
> plan, and please do keep us informed of the results.
>
> By the way, I'm sure you don't need lab-quality acetone, I think the
> first message in the thread implied that by saying it was a widely
> available chemical, easy to get. Try it with commercial-grade.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
> >Thank you all for yr comments.
> >Regards,
> >D.V.S
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