Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft
Hi all, Notwithstanding this list's rule that says 'nothing is off topic', it seems to me that there are already a huge number of websites and mail threads involved in the NT/XP/BSD/Linux/Macintosh religious wars. Would bringing such a thread to the BD group increase content levels, or just increase noise levels? On the other hand, since I am without sin, (no M'soft on my networks ;-) I'll cast the first stone While I admire the incredible breadth and strength of Linux development, I prefer variants of freeBSD for most applications. FreeBSD seems marginally more stable and secure than Linux running web and data server apps, many of which were first created on and for BSD systems. For desktops and personal workstations, the freeBSD/Mach/Darwin variant of unix, delivered as Apple OSX, while not fully open sourced, is so much superior to every other GUI/user interface, that it just seems counterproductive not to buy Macs, especially for running unix on laptops. They're cheap, fast, friendly, and sturdy. They're delivered with an unbeatable set of consumer applications built in, plus X11, with thousands of applications ready to compile, all the linux/unix developer's tools like a cross-compiling gcc, perl, cvs, php, and java, and a competent and extensible developer's GUI. They just work. Ok, take up your weapons, YAPORS* begins! * Yet Another Pc Operating System Religious Skirmish. Taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 12, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Rumen Slavov wrote: Hi all,Hi Felipe,Hi Mike ... Doug,you are right,we should start a Linux BD list and there is at least one reason-to tell all our friends here for the advantages of the free OS`s.But I think it is better this way,giving more members the possibility to touch the idea of freedom in the net.It is close enough to the minds of the biodieselers-to keep the world as clean as possible and to be free to lead the life as everyone prefers. Best wishes to all of you,I am going back to the BD installation I am assembling right now. Rumen Slavov ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft
Hey, people: I was not really serious! I know there are a lot of Linux ( BSD) users on the list. I guess in the next few years there will be a lot more regards Doug On Tuesday 13 September 2005 4:30, TarynToo wrote: Hi all, Notwithstanding this list's rule that says 'nothing is off topic', it seems to me that there are already a huge number of websites and mail threads involved in the NT/XP/BSD/Linux/Macintosh religious wars. Would bringing such a thread to the BD group increase content levels, or just increase noise levels? On the other hand, since I am without sin, (no M'soft on my networks ;-) I'll cast the first stone While I admire the incredible breadth and strength of Linux development, I prefer variants of freeBSD for most applications. FreeBSD seems marginally more stable and secure than Linux running web and data server apps, many of which were first created on and for BSD systems. For desktops and personal workstations, the freeBSD/Mach/Darwin variant of unix, delivered as Apple OSX, while not fully open sourced, is so much superior to every other GUI/user interface, that it just seems counterproductive not to buy Macs, especially for running unix on laptops. They're cheap, fast, friendly, and sturdy. They're delivered with an unbeatable set of consumer applications built in, plus X11, with thousands of applications ready to compile, all the linux/unix developer's tools like a cross-compiling gcc, perl, cvs, php, and java, and a competent and extensible developer's GUI. They just work. Ok, take up your weapons, YAPORS* begins! * Yet Another Pc Operating System Religious Skirmish. Taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 12, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Rumen Slavov wrote: Hi all,Hi Felipe,Hi Mike ... Doug,you are right,we should start a Linux BD list and there is at least one reason-to tell all our friends here for the advantages of the free OS`s.But I think it is better this way,giving more members the possibility to touch the idea of freedom in the net.It is close enough to the minds of the biodieselers-to keep the world as clean as possible and to be free to lead the life as everyone prefers. Best wishes to all of you,I am going back to the BD installation I am assembling right now. Rumen Slavov ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Debatable statement?
True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Using stored co2 energy (was: Shooting Down theBreeze)
chris l., i assure you i was not mistaken. wiring down the cork is no guarantee. even if it holds the cork, the bottle itself might explode. They sure do go off with a bang, I've lost gallons over the last 30 years due to getting the fermentation wrong when making sparkling Perry. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
On Sep 12, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Leon Hulett wrote: I did a tiny proposal to Cal Edison in California back in the 80s on Wind Energy Systems in the Jet Stream to see if they were interested. I had visited their Solar One Site and thought they might like to do something with wind. What would you like to know? Well...uh...everything, really. But the prevailing wisdom was that Victorian scientists were the last individuals able to encompass all of human knowledge. Kind of eurocentric racism, I 'spose. And our Victorian grandfathers (and grandmothers) were the last individuals able to encompass a complete set of skills. As far as high altitude wind power extraction, we'd probably all like to hear as much as you're willing to tell. Can the proposal or elements of it be made public? I suspect JTF would be happy to host anything on the subject that stands up to scrutiny. Actually no Taryn. In fact there isn't anything about wind at Journey to Forever. (Nor micro-hydro, nor nor nor...) If there were it would be village-level stuff, Appropriate Technology gear that small communities could make and operate on their own. Best wishes Keith Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] organic photovoltaic devices
Hi all, there is some interesting info here. Organic Photovoltaic Devices - Use Of Nanomaterials in Organic Photovoltaic Devices http://www.azonano.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1400 next_generation_grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel verification
Hi Przemyslaw I had the same question when I first started. I put some of my new fuel in an oil lamp just to see if it would BURN. IT DID. I knew I was on the right track BEST Regards. RoyKuba-tlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, i have a question. Is there any way of checking my biodiesel "production". How can I confirm that the stuff I distilled is in fact a fuel. I mean the every method except pouring it into my car's tank and waiting what is going to happen. I will appreciate any advice in a matter. Bestwishes for all of you from Poland Przemyslaw(this is a polish name :) )___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Roy Washbish Certified Health Coach A HOME BUSINESS PRODUCTS THAT WORKPRODUCTS BUSINESSTRIVITA.COM/11393920 GREAT RETURN ON YOUR MONEY. SEE AD PROGRAM Visit mytrim.com/Roy Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] posited: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Why bother? The wrong tool for the job is the wrong tool for the job. If you want to split a diamond, neither a sledge hammer nor a feather duster will work. Instead of fostering a debate about which of two wrong answers is less wrong, let's put our energies into finding correct answers, and implementing them. If all goes according to plan today, the pickup truck I acquired at the end of June will get its first tankful of B20. It's been a long road, but even slow progress is still progress. Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel in a Toyostove?
anyone ever try BD in a kerosene Toyostove? 50/50? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in a Toyostove?
I have tried my biodiesel in a multifuel camping stove made for backpacking use. It is the type that has a fuel bottle separate from the burner and a pump on the bottle for pressurization. It is made by sigg and called the firejet. It is a little difficult to light on kerosene and very difficult on biodiesel. I think the reason is that biodiesel has a high boiling point compared to kerosene although I haven't confirmed this. Once I preheated the vaporizer tube to hight temperature the stove ran beautifully with a nice clean blue flame and no smoke on the biodiesel. I took a picture but I can't post it here :-( . Try it and see. Let us know. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: anyone ever try BD in a kerosene Toyostove? 50/50? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] All plastic processor
Thanks Bill, My first choice was SS but when I got the price tag I looked for cheaper solutions that would work. I dont like the threads either but if you buy the Marine grade epoxy dough ( comes in a tube and you have to knead it together) you can put a reinforcement around the threads (permanent) before you use it. This then allows glue fittings out to pump. You can do a double if you put PVC glue when you screw in the fitting (gotta go fast) then epoxy for added support. If you got the bucks SS is the way to go - but thats a lota bucks here. Bill Clark wrote: Hi JJJN Marty, My first processor was made with PVC pipe. The glue fittings were no problem. The PVC screw fittings consistently became loose and since they were glued to other pipe, could not be tightened. All have been replaced with 304 stainless. Long runs are PEX and ag sprayer suction hose. Have had few problems with nylon barb fittings though they do need occasional tightening. Hope this helps, Bill Clark - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] All plastic processor PVC is rated at 160 psi at 73 deg F. as one (pressure) increases the other (temp) must decrease within limits of a range. thus if one takes PSI to 0 temp can increase to a maximum before deformation. I don't know that point... but I have tested it to 212 deg F with no deformations or glue problems. As far as I know 130 degrees is what BD's maximum is so I think it will be fine, but do some testing on some cheap small dia fittings first. I also like the way PVC holds the heat once it is at temp. luck and wisdom JJJN Marty Phee wrote: PVC will get soft as it's heated. Take this into account. I'm not sure how much heat is required though. I've seen people bend and stretch PVC using steam or propane torch. Also, PVC gives off dioxin when it burns. JJJN wrote: I may be getting in the middle here but FYI I just purchased some 8 Dia. Sch 40 PVC. It holds roughly 2.5 gallons per foot. they make a very nice concentric reducer glue fitting for the bottom that can be threaded to your choice of sizes. The Wall Thickness is heavy enough you can drill and tap side fittings for your pump/gage taps etc. you can get a tee with clean out also. 2 part marine (putty stick) sticks real well to if you prep with sand paper. I am making mine about 10 gallons each and making dual reactors with one wash tub. the pipe is about 5-6 bucks a foot and fittings run about 20 bucks each. Wisdom to all, Jim David Thornton wrote: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
Hi Keith, On Sep 13, 2005, at 4:00 AM, Keith Addison wrote: On Sep 12, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Leon Hulett wrote: I did a tiny proposal to Cal Edison in California back in the 80s on Wind Energy Systems in the Jet Stream to see if they were interested. I had visited their Solar One Site and thought they might like to do something with wind. What would you like to know? Well...uh...everything, really. But the prevailing wisdom was that Victorian scientists were the last individuals able to encompass all of human knowledge. Kind of eurocentric racism, I 'spose. And our Victorian grandfathers (and grandmothers) were the last individuals able to encompass a complete set of skills. I had a set of grandparents like that, the people that Heinlein said could deliver babies, do laundry, dig wells, etc. As far as high altitude wind power extraction, we'd probably all like to hear as much as you're willing to tell. Can the proposal or elements of it be made public? I suspect JTF would be happy to host anything on the subject that stands up to scrutiny. Actually no Taryn. In fact there isn't anything about wind at Journey to Forever. (Nor micro-hydro, nor nor nor...) If there were it would be village-level stuff, Appropriate Technology gear that small communities could make and operate on their own. Oops, of course you're right, and I agree; acting locally, with thoughtful impact, beats giant commercial projects hands down. Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
The fuel efficiency of an engine is not a constant. At high throttle settings economy is sacrificed for power. ie the grams of fuel used per horsepower hour increases. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. At low loads the fixed burden of the engine becomes significant. Most diesels look best around 70% of design max. Kirk Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in a Toyostove?
anyone ever try BD in a kerosene Toyostove? 50/50? No, but I might need that to boil or distill my drinking water someday while encamped along the waterways. I've wondered about using white (unleaded) gasoline blends in a Coleman pressure lamp or stove for far to long. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Power shortages affect refineries
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/special/california/june01article/carefinery.html http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8063259/ Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Greg H. wrote:True or FalseUnderpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not?All US models: 2000 Geo/Chevy Metro (1.3L 3cyl gasoline, 5 Spd Manual) EPA MPG: City 39 Highway 46 2000 Ferrari 550 (5.5L V-12 gasoline, 6 Spd Manual) EPA MPG: City 8 Highway 10 2000 Toyota Corolla (1.8L 4cyl gasoline, 5 Spd Manual) EPA MPG: City 31 Highway 38 The Geo is the definition of under-powered, but effecient (just don't run into anything)...you could gun it at every start and still get ~40 MPG. The ferrari is unbelievably over-powered.. IMHO the Toyota is just about right. Am I understanding your question correctly? -- Thanks,PaulHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Kirk McLoren wrote: snip. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. snip And there are such a transmission systems already Check out the http://www.torotrak.com/howitworks.html Dont miss the cool flash demo http://www.torotrak.com/media/virtualdrive.swf -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Here's a discussion thread with links to graphs of the gm/kWh for a few diesel engines. It changes based both on engine RPM and engine throttle position. The VW TDI is one of the best small engines from what I understand, peaking at under 200 grams/kWh. http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=649start=13 Zeke On 9/13/05, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fuel efficiency of an engine is not a constant. At high throttle settings economy is sacrificed for power. ie the grams of fuel used per horsepower hour increases. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. At low loads the fixed burden of the engine becomes significant. Most diesels look best around 70% of design max. Kirk Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Draft US Defense Paper Outlines Preventive Nuclear Strikes
Hmmm. With the track record of the current group in charge, this would seem like giving a ferrari to a 16 year old with bad eyesight. After he just crashed up his old ford escort Wonder how long before some pharmacuticals plant in Iran goes up in a mushroom cloud? On 9/12/05, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith Addison wrote: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0911-02.htm Published on Sunday, September 11, 2005 by Agence France Presse Draft US Defense Paper Outlines Preventive Nuclear Strikes Don't say I didn't warn you! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
(theoretically) True (IMHO) Engine efficiency and engine size are almost mutually exclusive (very few things are perfectly scalable). If your throttle control is nothing more than a request for more or less powerAND there is a correlation between a demand for power and a demand for fuel AND the thermal efficiency of the two engines are the same, why not? The onlynote I would make is repeating Kirk's point, that the characteristics of the engine requires the operator to take full advantage ofthe engines ideal running conditions. Of course, this too is debatable because of the number of variables. However, I think thatsemantics aside, the other factors are negligible. Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fuel efficiency of an engine is not a constant. At high throttle settings economy is sacrificed for power. ie the grams of fuel used per horsepower hour increases. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. At low loads the fixed burden of the engine becomes significant. Most diesels look best around 70% of design max. Kirk Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
Hello Zeke These people keep saying they read somewhere but they don't say where. We've had dozens of them. This citing of an unknown resource has actually been documented (by the movie Outfoxed) as a devious method of presenting opinion or non factual information without violating (at least in the letter of the law) journalistic standards of objectiveness. It's a nice spin tactic too, if you've an interest and you're able to weave it into the current movie without leaving a trail. Quite easy, these days. Fox news is one of the prime users of this although many others are catching on -- it can be reported as news that some people say that biodiesel degrades in two days... and who can dispute that some wacko might have actually said that? In one move you can present whatever garbage you want as news, without technically saying the garbage is true... The unobservant listener or reader doesn't catch this though. Maybe someone's paying the piper rather than just media sloppiness. All this stuff about biodiesel has been pouring in here at the list and especially at Journey to Forever for six years now, you get a sense of it. The question does tend to come up every now and then, but recently a much higher proportion than usual are inquiring about biodiesel's allegedly short storage life. So many people just browse around the web like gadflies, they don't keep much or any record of where they went or what they found there. (Hi, I stumbled on your website...) It seems to point back somewhere, it might be worth knowing just where. Anyway, it seems none of us has stumbled on it, yet. I'm guilty of citing sources that I don't really remember quite what they said or who they were too, but ever since I learned about this tactic, I try to be more careful of it. Indeed, as should we all, Zeke. Zeke 'Pardon me, but your cynicism is showing' :-) Not just healthy scepticism? Especially when it comes to the media and them who owns them, they're the cynical ones. Could be worse though, could be much worse. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Are we comparing exactly the same weight/aerodynamics/rolling resistance car here, with just different powered engines? Or complete different cars like a metro, corolla, and a ferarri. I think for otherwise identical cars, a medium sized engine (but smaller than what most cars come with nowdays) will get better mileage, because it can accellerate fast enough to get out of the fuel dumping acceleration, and into more fuel efficient cruising faster. But if it's to large, it's less efficient at cruising speed because of low part load efficiency. And if it's too small, it it always trying futiley to accellerate, instead of cruising. Also, due to real fixed ratio transmissions, a less powerful engine may spend more time at a higher RPM, where the fuel efficiency in grams/kWh is less, whereas a higher power engine could downshift sooner. There is also the human factor, that a more powerful car will entice lead footedness and speeding, and thus get worse gas mileage than an underpowered car that you just accept your slowness On 9/13/05, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (theoretically) True (IMHO) Engine efficiency and engine size are almost mutually exclusive (very few things are perfectly scalable). If your throttle control is nothing more than a request for more or less power AND there is a correlation between a demand for power and a demand for fuel AND the thermal efficiency of the two engines are the same, why not? The only note I would make is repeating Kirk's point, that the characteristics of the engine requires the operator to take full advantage of the engines ideal running conditions. Of course, this too is debatable because of the number of variables. However, I think that semantics aside, the other factors are negligible. Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fuel efficiency of an engine is not a constant. At high throttle settings economy is sacrificed for power. ie the grams of fuel used per horsepower hour increases. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. At low loads the fixed burden of the engine becomes significant. Most diesels look best around 70% of design max. Kirk Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in a Toyostove?
I have tried my biodiesel in a multifuel camping stove made for backpacking use. It is the type that has a fuel bottle separate from the burner and a pump on the bottle for pressurization. It is made by sigg and called the firejet. It is a little difficult to light on kerosene and very difficult on biodiesel. I think the reason is that biodiesel has a high boiling point compared to kerosene although I haven't confirmed this. Once I preheated the vaporizer tube to hight temperature the stove ran beautifully with a nice clean blue flame and no smoke on the biodiesel. I took a picture but I can't post it here :-( . Try it and see. Let us know. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: anyone ever try BD in a kerosene Toyostove? 50/50? Is the Toyostove a heater? I broke a couple of kero heaters that way, but they were fussy things with fuzzy logic and so on, though they worked fine on kero. Reclaimed junk, usual high-class Tokyo gomi, so I didn't mind. Otherwise, see: Lamps and stoves http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lamps Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe Richard Littrell wrote: It also is related to a vote by slightly more than half of us - or at least slightly more than half of those whose votes were recorded. I remember in the wake of the election people saying "Why can't you let it go and come together behind the president? What are you so afraid will happen?" Well, look around. This was not just about a difference in ideology. It's about a frat boy who never grew up who was drafted for a job that was way to big for him by a group who wanted him solely because they could control him and get what they wanted from the federal government in terms of changes in regulations and consideration for the energy industry. The blind promoted by the self centered and short sighted. It will take years and the efforts of both parties to recover from this stupid power grab. Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the answer to that question goes all the way back to a certain dec. 12, 2000 supreme court decision. . . . -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
I like it. Word sampling? or did he actually say all that. I wouldn't put it past him if his handlers weren't around some time. I don't even like rap or hip hop music, but this is pretty good too. http://www.boingboing.net/2005/09/08/katrina_kanye_remixe.html On 9/13/05, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe Richard Littrell wrote: It also is related to a vote by slightly more than half of us - or at least slightly more than half of those whose votes were recorded. I remember in the wake of the election people saying Why can't you let it go and come together behind the president? What are you so afraid will happen? Well, look around. This was not just about a difference in ideology. It's about a frat boy who never grew up who was drafted for a job that was way to big for him by a group who wanted him solely because they could control him and get what they wanted from the federal government in terms of changes in regulations and consideration for the energy industry. The blind promoted by the self centered and short sighted. It will take years and the efforts of both parties to recover from this stupid power grab. Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the answer to that question goes all the way back to a certain dec. 12, 2000 supreme court decision. . . . -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Zeke Yewdall wrote: Snip I think for otherwise identical cars, a medium sized engine (but smaller than what most cars come with nowdays) will get better mileage, because it can accellerate fast enough to get out of the fuel dumping acceleration, and into more fuel efficient cruising faster. If you accelerate you are doing work. If you accelerate slowly you use less fuel per unit time but for a longer time. If you use high acceleration you use more fuel per time but for a shorter time. However definitely the frictional losses are higher when the engine is asked to produce high torque, thus dropping the efficiency. But if it's to large, it's less efficient at cruising speed because of low part load efficiency. And if it's too small, it it always trying futiley to accellerate, instead of cruising. Also, due to real fixed ratio transmissions, a less powerful engine may spend more time at a higher RPM, where the fuel efficiency in grams/kWh is less, whereas a higher power engine could downshift sooner. The engine turning at higher rpm is not necessarily using more fuel. It depends on the power the engine is producing and other factors including thermal efficiency, bearing friction etc. There are a family of curves for the engine showing torque vs rpm, power vs rpm and fuel consumption vs rpm at a given load. For instance years ago one of the bikes I used to ride got better fuel economy on the highway by driving in 4th gear at higher rpm than in 5th gear at a lower rpm for the same highway speed. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
Zeke Yewdall wrote: I like it. Word sampling? or did he actually say all that. Thank you. :-) Wave editing. G.Dub didn't say those things exactly as they appear but it is all his voice. It is relatively easy to splice phrases together or remove words. Splicing sylables is considerably more challenging. For instance the first half of the word Fuzzy with the tail end of the word Buck makes an entirely new word which G.W. may not have said in the context that it appears in the song.at least not in public anyways. I wouldn't put it past him if his handlers weren't around some time. Well Fidel says he is drinking heavily again so ya neva know! I don't even like rap or hip hop music, but this is pretty good too. http://www.boingboing.net/2005/09/08/katrina_kanye_remixe.html Kewl. It's fun to do this kind of thing but all kidding asside it may be the way to get the message into the mainstream!! Stranger things have happened. Joe On 9/13/05, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
On 9/13/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question does tend to come up every now and then, but recently amuch higher proportion than usual are inquiring about biodiesel's allegedly short storage life.So many people just browse around the web like gadflies, they don'tkeep much or any record of where they went or what they found there.(Hi, I stumbled on your website...) It seems to point back somewhere, it might be worth knowing just where.Anyway, it seems none of us has stumbled on it, yet. Keith, JtF is an incredible resource. I am reading something or another every couple of days from one of the many topics. Perhaps including some storage expectations and debunking disinformation would be of great service. I know that you're busy but, it may save you some time in the long run. I could have sworn that I saw some sort of guideline on JtF but, I certainly can't find it. I've tried searching through the search engine (biodiesel storage or biodiesel shelf file) and manually searching through the pages that I think would likely contain the info but, I keep coming up dry. I can find information on other websites but, I trust JtF more. Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
TarynToo, Sorry, I can't help you with any vision of the Victorian or Scholastic scope of knowledge... But I might add a few things on the wind and my idea. I got a package of wind data on the upper air from an Oceanographic office. This was a compilation of data for 10 years from all around the world. Quite a bit of stuff. They have sites around the world that measure wind speeds of the upper air at different altitudes. Then they look at different altitudes and connect the dots. Then they have a chart of what the wind speeds look like over California, for example. At 30,000 feet they say, for the 10 year period of the data that the average wind energy was 7.5 kW per square meter. They can also present this data month by month. So one can make up 12 graphs that say what the power levels might be for Jan thru Dec. In July, or in the summer months the data shows the wind to be much slower than in Jan and the winter months. Looking at that data in another way I integrated the power from ground to 60,000 feet and estimated the total wind power coming across California as about 1 megawatt per foot of coastline. Lots of energy potential. Other parts of the country are more influenced by the Jet Stream and have average energy densities about twice as high, or 14 kW per square meter. Over Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New York and the New England states, would be the highest in the country, at 30,000 feet. My idea was for an 80 megawatt design. Solar One was about 30 megawatts thermal capacity. If you divide 80 mW by the energy density and an efficiency you can see the frontal area would be quite large. The idea was to have just enough lift from a helium filled portion to provide safety under emergency conditions. The unit would never crash into the ground unless it came apart. But the helium would not sustain it at 30,000 feet either. TetraTech was a company in Pasadena, CA and does provide tethers for submersible equipment. They had envisioned a tether system and equipment that I felt would meet the needs. Of course at altitude, wings on the device would have to provide the lift needed for the tether. The tether would provide the ability to create lift like a kite. Close to ground near touchdown conditions, one would not have to support much tether. The plan was to change altitude if wind conditions became too high. Under summer conditions or low wind conditions I felt some fancy flying would increase the effective wind speed of the device. Like a water skier on a tether behind a boat. He can go faster than the boat under certain conditions. The tether could be used to tack the device in a certain pattern and fly faster than the wind if the wind was too slow. Graz University analyzed a number of locations north to south and found, as one might expect, that the Jet Stream (maximum energy density of the wind) meanders over a wide area. By strategically placing stations over a wide area, a system of devices could overcome low wind speeds at a specific location. This means one would have to build stations with this overcapacity in mind to assure more consistent energy capacity during lower wind speeds for an electrical grid. At the time California was thinking of acquiring a maximum of 7 percent of its energy needs from wind power. With such widely spaced stations and this leveling effect, this number might be increased. Does this make sense to you, or is it too fanciful? I guess you folks can be the peer review I didn't have back then. Leon [Original Message] From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: 9/13/05 1:53:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power On Sep 12, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Leon Hulett wrote: I did a tiny proposal to Cal Edison in California back in the 80s on Wind Energy Systems in the Jet Stream to see if they were interested. I had visited their Solar One Site and thought they might like to do something with wind. What would you like to know? Well...uh...everything, really. But the prevailing wisdom was that Victorian scientists were the last individuals able to encompass all of human knowledge. Kind of eurocentric racism, I 'spose. As far as high altitude wind power extraction, we'd probably all like to hear as much as you're willing to tell. Can the proposal or elements of it be made public? I suspect JTF would be happy to host anything on the subject that stands up to scrutiny. Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Wouldn't a variable displacement engine work best. Say a 2+ liter 4 cylinder where 2 cylinders can be turned off at speed. Dodge is doing this in their trucks with v8's. A BMW mechanic behind me told me that BMW makes an engine with variable compression. The head move in/out to change the compression ratio. Zeke Yewdall wrote: Are we comparing exactly the same weight/aerodynamics/rolling resistance car here, with just different powered engines? Or complete different cars like a metro, corolla, and a ferarri. I think for otherwise identical cars, a medium sized engine (but smaller than what most cars come with nowdays) will get better mileage, because it can accellerate fast enough to get out of the fuel dumping acceleration, and into more fuel efficient cruising faster. But if it's to large, it's less efficient at cruising speed because of low part load efficiency. And if it's too small, it it always trying futiley to accellerate, instead of cruising. Also, due to real fixed ratio transmissions, a less powerful engine may spend more time at a higher RPM, where the fuel efficiency in grams/kWh is less, whereas a higher power engine could downshift sooner. There is also the human factor, that a more powerful car will entice lead footedness and speeding, and thus get worse gas mileage than an underpowered car that you just accept your slowness On 9/13/05, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (theoretically) True (IMHO) Engine efficiency and engine size are almost mutually exclusive (very few things are perfectly scalable). If your throttle control is nothing more than a request for more or less power AND there is a correlation between a demand for power and a demand for fuel AND the thermal efficiency of the two engines are the same, why not? The only note I would make is repeating Kirk's point, that the characteristics of the engine requires the operator to take full advantage of the engines ideal running conditions. Of course, this too is debatable because of the number of variables. However, I think that semantics aside, the other factors are negligible. Mike Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fuel efficiency of an engine is not a constant. At high throttle settings economy is sacrificed for power. ie the grams of fuel used per horsepower hour increases. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. At low loads the fixed burden of the engine becomes significant. Most diesels look best around 70% of design max. Kirk Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] [Fwd: [IP] FEMA Had Authority to Act, even without Emergency Declaration]
Original Message Subject:[IP] FEMA Had Authority to Act, even without Emergency Declaration Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:13:41 -0400 From: David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ip Ip ip@v2.listbox.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Begin forwarded message: From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: September 13, 2005 12:35:45 PM EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IP] FEMA Had Authority to Act, even without Emergency Declaration Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would encourage all IPers to listen to the complete program that this snippet is from... the audio will go live this weekend on http://thislife.org or people can use the very helpful http://www.publicradiofan.com/ to find a station that will air the program at a time they can listen (and in a format they can listen in). Lessig posted about this program and I have to agree that it is jaw-droppingly revealing (people trying to leave the city being shot at by crazed cops, etc.): http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/003124.shtml This American Life's episode this week, After the Flood, is an extraordinary collection of stories from New Orleans. Most extraordinary among the lot was the clear picture it gave of the work by some bit of government down there to forbid people from leaving the city. The story is told by a group of paramedics at a convention in New Orleans; it is about the force used to keep them (and others) from leaving. However outrageous not being prepared was, however insane was the delay in reaction, this, imho, is the worst. Listen. -Joe On 9/13/05, David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: John Lyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: September 13, 2005 5:08:31 AM EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [For IP] FEMA Had Authority to Act, even without Emergency Declaration For IP, if appropriate. It's a transcript of the prologue from last weekend's public radio program This American Life. http:// thislife.org. Ira Glass: OK, in the coming weeks and months we're all going to be hearing so much about hurricane Katrina, and why the government's response was so abysmal. And already the blame shifting is like this prize fight that's already in it's third or fourth round. Already we've heard officials try to shrug off any attempts of accountability by saying it's too soon, by saying we're not going to play the blame game. And before the million details, and arguments and counter arguments start to make all of our heads woozy, I would just like to repeat here, something that was talked about very briefly this week. One of those things that seems so fundamental, that seems to cut through a lot this supposed debate that's happening and end it definitively. So much so that when I would see people on TV posturing and trotting out the talking points, I kept wanting to go back and say Nonononono, don't forget this thing. It has to do with the biggest argument out there right now. Whether the federal government was in fact supposed to be in charge of rescuing people and getting food and water and all that to New Orleans. It's come up a lot, like when the head of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff was asked by Tim Russert on Meet the Press, Since you knew the storm was coming, why didn't you get buses and trains and planes and trucks in there to evacuate? Chertoff...said it wasn't his job. Chertoff: Tim, the the way that, that that emergency operations act under, under the law is, the responsibility, and the, the uh power, the authority rests with the state and local officials. Glass: This idea, that it was state and local officials who were the ones who blew it, not the feds, this idea is all over place. From the talking heads on TV, to Rush Limbaugh: Limbaugh: What we had down there was eminent failure of state and local government. We had incompetence in the mayor's office, incompetence in the governor's office. Glass: And sure, it is clear, even this early, that there are plenty of things that state and local government did to screw things up. But here's this thing that I read this week, this thing that I kept thinking about all week. It really comes down to a couple of basic facts. The governor of Louisiana declares a state of emergency, the Friday before the storm hits, right? Calls on the federal government to step in. Then President Bush officially declares a state of emergency in Louisiana, the next day, Saturday before the storm, and authorizes the Federal Emergency Management Agency to act. You can read the paper where he does this on the White House website. Basically, that should have settled who was in charge. Nicholson: After that happened, there was plenty of authority. There was all the authority in the world. Glass: We checked it out this idea that, from that point, the federal
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Agreed. As also stated by another list member the right tool for the right job. Case in point: I have a 2000 Dodge 2500 4X4 with the Cummings 24 valve diesel. It has the avg. and real time mpg readout in the overhead console. Going by that, the stock truck would get its best mpg / performance between 1700 and 1900 RPMs. This equated to 17- 18 mpg @ 70 mph while on flat ground in factory OD. Above that I would get more performance (pulling power), but less mpg. I installed a Gear Vendors split out-drive and at 70 mph my RPM was only ~ 1450. I thought that this would be great and I would be getting better mpg. But when I checked the real time mpg gage I was actually getting less (~15 mpg ). I then installed a mild Banks kit (accessory computer, 4 SS exhaust, KN air filter and we changed the fitting from the turbo to the waste gate with one that had a smaller center hole (this increased boost from ~22lbs to 26 lbs before the waste gate would open). What this did was open up the sweet spot that the engine gave its best mpg / performance ratio from the original 1700- 1900 RPMs to 1500 1900 RPMs. The result was that I can now be in the 4th over gear (factory OD + gear vendor OD) doing 70 mph and I get 22- 23 mpg. @ 80 mph I get 20 21 mpg @ 1800 RPMs. Not bad for this size truck. With the extra gears I can also match the gear to engine speed while climbing the mountains around here and get much better mpg while maintaining the highway speeds on the freeway. The example would be with the camper on the truck and towing a trailer, the factory OD is too high a gear to get up the long hills, yet the factory 3rd gear is too low a gear and although I get the power, the engine RPMs are too high to get any mileage. But using the Gear vendor I can select 3rd over which is between the factory 3rd and OD gears and this gear gives the best of both worlds. In other words, less RPM doesnt necessarily mean more mpg. If you are below the engines performance zone you start to lug the engine and get less performance / mpg. The goal is to open up the engines peak performance / mpg zone and to provide the gearing to make the best of it. I now have acquired several gals. of WVO from the cafeteria here at work and I will be learning the process of making my own Biodiesel to run in the truck. Speaking of that, I was told by my neighbor that one of the local cities who is running Biodiesel in their vehicles (busses, heavy trucks, etc.) is having problems with the Biodiesel and the Cummings engines. I did not have time to get the specifics from him, but from by readings of the discussion site, I could see not changing the fuel filter enough (after switching from D#2 to Bio as the Bio will clean the system out) to maybe having a bad supplier of the Biodiesel. Does anyone else know of issues with running Biodiesel in the Dodge Cummings engine? Ed From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:22 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement? The fuel efficiency of an engine is not a constant. At high throttle settings economy is sacrificed for power. ie the grams of fuel used per horsepower hour increases. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. At low loads the fixed burden of the engine becomes significant. Most diesels look best around 70% of design max. Kirk Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Joe Street wrote: I think for otherwise identical cars, a medium sized engine (but smaller than what most cars come with nowdays) will get better mileage, because it can accellerate fast enough to get out of the fuel dumping acceleration, and into more fuel efficient cruising faster. If you accelerate you are doing work. If you accelerate slowly you use less fuel per unit time but for a longer time. If you use high acceleration you use more fuel per time but for a shorter time. However definitely the frictional losses are higher when the engine is asked to produce high torque, thus dropping the efficiency. The first half of this is a good observation. The second half, however, is all wrong. Sorry:( Horsepower is proportional to torque times RPM. Engine losses depend on a number of things, but are mostly proportional to RPM. Using maximum torque and minimum RPM is usually the most efficient way to produce power. But if it's to large, it's less efficient at cruising speed because of low part load efficiency. And if it's too small, it it always trying futiley to accellerate, instead of cruising. Also, due to real fixed ratio transmissions, a less powerful engine may spend more time at a higher RPM, where the fuel efficiency in grams/kWh is less, whereas a higher power engine could downshift sooner. The engine turning at higher rpm is not necessarily using more fuel. It depends on the power the engine is producing and other factors including thermal efficiency, bearing friction etc. There are a family of curves for the engine showing torque vs rpm, power vs rpm and fuel consumption vs rpm at a given load. For instance years ago one of the bikes I used to ride got better fuel economy on the highway by driving in 4th gear at higher rpm than in 5th gear at a lower rpm for the same highway speed. This is by far the exception though, and is most likely due to camshaft curves that favored higher RPM. I remember the days when motorcycles could exceed the national speed limit in first gear too:) But they're special cases, as are the 454 cid corvettes that got better mileage at higher speeds because it could produce the incremental horsepower needed for the higher speeds much more efficiently than the base horsepower to idle down the road at 55 MPH. The general answer to this question, from an engineering perspective, is that a car will get better fuel consumption with a smaller engine as long as you don't get into a mode where the engine becomes less efficient at producing the required horsepower. This could be due to excess fuel used in the mixture or excessive RPM. Note that there are many other parameters for the choice of a proper engine than horsepower, however. Pollution, drivability, longevity, reliability, and sufficient power to remove oneself from dangerous situtations come to mind. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
I knew it wouldn't take long for these (good) questions to come up. I'm just concerned that we don't get too hung up on cars designed for maximum efficiencyvs maximum power. Some of the methods used to get fuel and air to high horsepower engines resemble toilet bowls and a lot of that fuel ends up not getting burned. The biggest question I have is; If you are including the vehicle as a whole, weight has to be part of the discussion unless (perhaps) if you assume regenerative breaking on all cars. It's tough to ignore the transformation of energy into heat at the brakes. MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are we comparing exactly the same weight/aerodynamics/rollingresistance car here, with just different powered engines? Or completedifferent cars like a metro, corolla, and a ferarri.I think for otherwise identical cars, a medium sized engine (butsmaller than what most cars come with nowdays) will get bettermileage, because it can accellerate fast enough to get out of the fueldumping acceleration, and into more fuel efficient cruising faster. But if it's to large, it's less efficient at cruising speed because oflow part load efficiency. And if it's too small, it it always tryingfutiley to accellerate, instead of cruising. Also, due to real fixedratio transmissions, a less powerful engine may spend more time at ahigher RPM, where the fuel efficiency in grams/kWh is less, whereas ahigher power engine could downshift sooner.There is also the human factor, that a more powerful car will enticelead footedness and speeding, and thus get worse gas mileage than anunderpowered car that you just accept your slownessOn 9/13/05, Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: (theoretically) True(IMHO) Engine efficiency and engine size are almost mutually exclusive (very few things are perfectly scalable). If your throttle control is nothing more than a request for more or less power AND there is a correlation between a demand for power and a demand for fuel AND the thermal efficiency of the two engines are the same, why not? The only note I would make is repeating Kirk's point, that the characteristics of the engine requires the operator to take full advantage of the engines ideal running conditions. Of course, this too is debatable because of the number of variables. However, I think that semantics aside, the other factors are negligible. Mike Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: The fuel efficiency of an engine is not a constant. At high throttle settings economy is sacrificed for power. ie the grams of fuel used per horsepower hour increases. That is why infinite ratio transmissions would be worthwhile. And ideally - lossless. At low loads the fixed burden of the engine becomes significant. Most diesels look best around 70% of design max. Kirk Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Using stored co2 energy (was: Shooting Down the Breeze)
well, if you're anything like me you probably won't be too excited by the prospect, but a "cheater's method" involves chilling the bottles to near freezing before final bottling. the cold temp allows the gas to remain in solution while you transfer the wine to fresh bottles (to which you can add yeast inhibitor if so inclined). Chris lloyd wrote: They sure do go off with a bang, I've lost gallons over the last 30 years due to getting the fermentation wrong when making sparkling Perry. Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
David Miller wrote: The first half of this is a good observation. The second half, however, is all wrong. Sorry:( Why is that? If the coefficient of friction remains constant (an assumption) then the frictional force should be proportional to the normal force which is directly related to torque. No? (I am thinking of the conrod and crankshaft bearings, or is that not where the majority of losses occur?) Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
Hi Leon; The first issue I see is that any device with enough volume of helium to get a generator with that much capacity off the ground would have a huge frontal area which would make tethering a bit difficult. Joe Leon Hulett wrote: TarynToo, Sorry, I can't help you with any vision of the Victorian or Scholastic scope of knowledge... But I might add a few things on the wind and my idea. I got a package of wind data on the upper air from an Oceanographic office. This was a compilation of data for 10 years from all around the world. Quite a bit of stuff. They have sites around the world that measure wind speeds of the upper air at different altitudes. Then they look at different altitudes and connect the dots. Then they have a chart of what the wind speeds look like over California, for example. At 30,000 feet they say, for the 10 year period of the data that the average wind energy was 7.5 kW per square meter. They can also present this data month by month. So one can make up 12 graphs that say what the power levels might be for Jan thru Dec. In July, or in the summer months the data shows the wind to be much slower than in Jan and the winter months. Looking at that data in another way I integrated the power from ground to 60,000 feet and estimated the total wind power coming across California as about 1 megawatt per foot of coastline. Lots of energy potential. Other parts of the country are more influenced by the Jet Stream and have average energy densities about twice as high, or 14 kW per square meter. Over Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New York and the New England states, would be the highest in the country, at 30,000 feet. My idea was for an 80 megawatt design. Solar One was about 30 megawatts thermal capacity. If you divide 80 mW by the energy density and an efficiency you can see the frontal area would be quite large. The idea was to have just enough lift from a helium filled portion to provide safety under emergency conditions. The unit would never crash into the ground unless it came apart. But the helium would not sustain it at 30,000 feet either. TetraTech was a company in Pasadena, CA and does provide tethers for submersible equipment. They had envisioned a tether system and equipment that I felt would meet the needs. Of course at altitude, wings on the device would have to provide the lift needed for the tether. The tether would provide the ability to create lift like a kite. Close to ground near touchdown conditions, one would not have to support much tether. The plan was to change altitude if wind conditions became too high. Under summer conditions or low wind conditions I felt some fancy flying would increase the effective wind speed of the device. Like a water skier on a tether behind a boat. He can go faster than the boat under certain conditions. The tether could be used to tack the device in a certain pattern and fly faster than the wind if the wind was too slow. Graz University analyzed a number of locations north to south and found, as one might expect, that the Jet Stream (maximum energy density of the wind) meanders over a wide area. By strategically placing stations over a wide area, a system of devices could overcome low wind speeds at a specific location. This means one would have to build stations with this overcapacity in mind to assure more consistent energy capacity during lower wind speeds for an electrical grid. At the time California was thinking of acquiring a maximum of 7 percent of its energy needs from wind power. With such widely spaced stations and this leveling effect, this number might be increased. Does this make sense to you, or is it too fanciful? I guess you folks can be the peer review I didn't have back then. Leon [Original Message] From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: 9/13/05 1:53:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power On Sep 12, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Leon Hulett wrote: I did a tiny proposal to Cal Edison in California back in the 80s on Wind Energy Systems in the Jet Stream to see if they were interested. I had visited their Solar One Site and thought they might like to do something with wind. What would you like to know? Well...uh...everything, really. But the prevailing wisdom was that Victorian scientists were the last individuals able to encompass all of human knowledge. Kind of eurocentric racism, I 'spose. As far as high altitude wind power extraction, we'd probably all like to hear as much as you're willing to tell. Can the proposal or elements of it be made public? I suspect JTF would be happy to host anything on the subject that stands up to scrutiny. Taryn http://ornae.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
Does anyone else know of issues with running Biodiesel in the Dodge Cummings engine? From the various biodiesel forums I've read, most people have no trouble with these (as long as they change the fuel filters and use good biodiesel of course). But there has been a lot of discussion on whether the newer CRD engines are appropriate for biodiesel or SVO. The SVO apparently tends to polymerize due to the extremely high pressures, and some people think the biodiesel will as well. However, there is still alot of confusion about the difference between SVO and biodiesel, so I don't fully trust everything I read And, other people blithly use SVO in a 2005 TDI with no problems yet. I have no direct experience, so hopefully there are some people out there who have tried it who can give more details. My truck is a 1984 mitsubishi (very similar design to the older 4 cylinder cummins as well as the old VW) and likes biodiesel fine (better than dino-diesel which knocks alot). I just changed the fuel filter after about the first 2000 miles on B100, and noticed a definite increase in power at full throttle. I haven't tried SVO yet. Oddly, everything thinks that biodiesel should dissolve all the fuel lines on my truck, and so far it hasn't... I check them regularly. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
Hey Joe, that is way cool- splicing syllables. neat Joe Street wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: I like it. Word sampling? or did he actually say all that. Thank you. :-) Wave editing. G.Dub didn't say those things exactly as they appear but it is all his voice. It is relatively easy to splice phrases together or remove words. Splicing sylables is considerably more challenging. For instance the first half of the word Fuzzy with the tail end of the word Buck makes an entirely new word which G.W. may not have said in the context that it appears in the song.at least not in public anyways. I wouldn't put it past him if his handlers weren't around some time. Well Fidel says he is drinking heavily again so ya neva know! I don't even like rap or hip hop music, but this is pretty good too. http://www.boingboing.net/2005/09/08/katrina_kanye_remixe.html Kewl. It's fun to do this kind of thing but all kidding asside it may be the way to get the message into the mainstream!! Stranger things have happened. Joe On 9/13/05, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
Greetings Ken On 9/13/05, Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question does tend to come up every now and then, but recently a much higher proportion than usual are inquiring about biodiesel's allegedly short storage life. So many people just browse around the web like gadflies, they don't keep much or any record of where they went or what they found there. (Hi, I stumbled on your website...) It seems to point back somewhere, it might be worth knowing just where. Anyway, it seems none of us has stumbled on it, yet. Keith, JtF is an incredible resource. Thankyou! /blush We're way behind with uploads though, as usual. :-/ Well, I guess it happens when it does, and it does grow rather steadily. I am reading something or another every couple of days from one of the many topics. Perhaps including some storage expectations and debunking disinformation would be of great service. I know that you're busy but, it may save you some time in the long run. Yes it would, and I've been assembling stuff, including some comments from this current thread. I could have sworn that I saw some sort of guideline on JtF but, I certainly can't find it. I've tried searching through the search engine (biodiesel storage or biodiesel shelf file) and manually searching through the pages that I think would likely contain the info but, I keep coming up dry. I can find information on other websites but, I trust JtF more. Thankyou again. We no longer trust our site-search engine much, we're in the process of replacing it. But it got this one right at least. The only mention of it is in one of the papers in the Biofuels Library: Biodiesel: The Use of Vegetable Oils and Their Derivatives as Alternative Diesel Fuels, G. Knothe, R.O. Dunn, and M.O. Bagby, in Fuels and Chemicals from Biomass. Washington, D.C.: American Chemical Society. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/VegetableOilsKnothe.pdf http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/VegetableOilsKnothe.doc Storage stability. While most aspects of biodiesel discussed above have received considerable attention, relatively few papers (165-167) deal with the aspect of (storage) stability of biodiesel or fatty alkyl esters. The use of biodiesel is advantageous compared to conventional diesel fuel from the aspect of handling and storage safety because of the higher flash point of both vegetable oils and their methyl esters. Generally, the stability of fatty compounds is influenced by factors such as presence of air, heat, traces of metal, peroxides, light, or structural features of the compounds themselves, mainly the presence of double bonds. The more conjugated or methylene-interrupted double bonds in a fatty molecule, the more susceptible the material is to oxidation and degradation. Early storage tests gave the following decreasing order of stability for different refinement grades of various vegetable oils (165): soybean oil degummed soybean oil refined soybean oil = refined sunflower oil degummed sunflower oil = crude sunflower oil. The stability of the crude and degummed oils was significantly improved by the addition of diesel fuel (in 1:1 mixtures) but this did not improve the stability of refined oils. The storage stability of 1:1 mixtures were in the decreasing order of crude soybean oil crude sunflower oil degummed soybean oil degummed sunflower oil refined soybean oil refined sunflower oil. A degummed oil / diesel blend with better stability characteristics than that of a refined oil / diesel blend could be prepared. Additionally, the purity of the degummed oils was sufficiently improved by the addition of diesel fuel to meet the required fuel specification. A study on the stability of the methyl and ethyl esters of sunflower oil reports that ester fuels (biodiesel) should be stored in airtight containers, the storage temperature should be 30 C, that mild steel (rust-free) containers could be used, and that tert.-butylhydroquinone (TBHQ), an oxidation inhibitor, has a beneficial effect on oxidation stability (166). Methyl esters were slightly more stable than ethyl esters. Light caused only a small increase in the oxidation parameters of esters stored at the high temperature level. The changes in the samples were reflected by increasing acid and peroxide values in storage at 50 C and increases in ultraviolet (UV) absorption. Two parameters, namely temperature and the nature of the storage container, were claimed to have the greatest influence on the storage stability (167). Samples stored in the presence of iron behaved differently than those stored in glass. Higher temperature favored degradation of the hydroperoxide at a faster rate than when it was stored at room temperature. Secondary oxidation products were formed in greater amounts in the presence of iron (from the primary peroxides) while in glass the concentration of primary
[Biofuel] [Fwd: [IP] This explains it]
Original Message Subject:[IP] This explains it Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:00:13 -0400 From: David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ip Ip ip@v2.listbox.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Begin forwarded message: From: Ted Dolotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: September 13, 2005 3:47:13 PM EDT To: IP List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: This explains it Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ROBERTSON BLAMES HURRICANE ON CHOICE OF ELLEN DEGENERES TO HOST EMMYS Lesbian is New Orleans native Hollywood, CA - Pat Robertson on Sunday said that Hurricane Katrina was God's way of expressing its anger at the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences for its selection of Ellen Degeneres to host this year's Emmy Awards. By choosing an avowed lesbian for this national event, these Hollywood elites have clearly invited God's wrath, Robertson said on The 700 Club on Sunday. Is it any surprise that the Almighty chose to strike at Miss Degeneres' hometown? Robertson also noted that the last time Degeneres hosted the Emmys, in 2001, the September 11 terrorism attacks took place shortly before the ceremony. http://datelinehollywood.com/archives/2005/09/05/robertson-blames- hurricane-on-c hoice-of-ellen-deneres-to-host-emmys/ - You are subscribed as [EMAIL PROTECTED] To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: [IP] This explains it]
Yes, but it's no less believable than things that Robertson really did say On 9/13/05, Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's actually a gag site. Marty Phee wrote: Original Message Subject: [IP] This explains it Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:00:13 -0400 From: David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ip Ip ip@v2.listbox.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Begin forwarded message: From: Ted Dolotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: September 13, 2005 3:47:13 PM EDT To: IP List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: This explains it Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ROBERTSON BLAMES HURRICANE ON CHOICE OF ELLEN DEGENERES TO HOST EMMYS Lesbian is New Orleans native Hollywood, CA - Pat Robertson on Sunday said that Hurricane Katrina was God's way of expressing its anger at the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences for its selection of Ellen Degeneres to host this year's Emmy Awards. By choosing an avowed lesbian for this national event, these Hollywood elites have clearly invited God's wrath, Robertson said on The 700 Club on Sunday. Is it any surprise that the Almighty chose to strike at Miss Degeneres' hometown? Robertson also noted that the last time Degeneres hosted the Emmys, in 2001, the September 11 terrorism attacks took place shortly before the ceremony. http://datelinehollywood.com/archives/2005/09/05/robertson-blames- hurricane-on-c hoice-of-ellen-deneres-to-host-emmys/ - You are subscribed as [EMAIL PROTECTED] To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
Nice one Joe!!! Have passed it on to a buddy of mine who is a very active bush-basher on the net, so your creation will surely be flooding round the world, hehe. Do some more J Malcolm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: 13 September 2005 18:37 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right? As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe Richard Littrell wrote: It also is related to a vote by slightly more than half of us - or at least slightly more than half of those whose votes were recorded. I remember in the wake of the election people saying Why can't you let it go and come together behind the president? What are you so afraid will happen? Well, look around. This was not just about a difference in ideology. It's about a frat boy who never grew up who was drafted for a job that was way to big for him by a group who wanted him solely because they could control him and get what they wanted from the federal government in terms of changes in regulations and consideration for the energy industry. The blind promoted by the self centered and short sighted. It will take years and the efforts of both parties to recover from this stupid power grab. Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the answer to that question goes all the way back to a certain dec. 12, 2000 supreme court decision. . . . -chris b. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
Yipee! I'm already working on it :-D malcolm maclure wrote: Nice one Joe!!! Have passed it on to a buddy of mine who is a very active bush-basher on the net, so your creation will surely be flooding round the world, hehe. Do some more J Malcolm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: 13 September 2005 18:37 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush: "What didn't go right?" As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe Richard Littrell wrote: It also is related to a vote by slightly more than half of us - or at least slightly more than half of those whose votes were recorded. I remember in the wake of the election people saying "Why can't you let it go and come together behind the president? What are you so afraid will happen?" Well, look around. This was not just about a difference in ideology. It's about a frat boy who never grew up who was drafted for a job that was way to big for him by a group who wanted him solely because they could control him and get what they wanted from the federal government in terms of changes in regulations and consideration for the energy industry. The blind promoted by the self centered and short sighted. It will take years and the efforts of both parties to recover from this stupid power grab. Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the answer to that question goes all the way back to a certain dec. 12, 2000 supreme court decision. . . . -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
Keep up the good work Just as an after thought, have you considered putting it to video footage including shots of atrocities committed by US forces in Iraq etc? Could be a powerful message!! BTW my buddy has stumblebloged it (as in stumbleupon) So it really is going round the globe now in a big way! Lol. http://www.stumbleupon.com/ Best regards Malcolm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: 13 September 2005 23:04 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right? Yipee! I'm already working on it :-D malcolm maclure wrote: Nice one Joe!!! Have passed it on to a buddy of mine who is a very active bush-basher on the net, so your creation will surely be flooding round the world, hehe. Do some more J Malcolm From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: 13 September 2005 18:37 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right? As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe Richard Littrell wrote: It also is related to a vote by slightly more than half of us - or at least slightly more than half of those whose votes were recorded. I remember in the wake of the election people saying Why can't you let it go and come together behind the president? What are you so afraid will happen? Well, look around. This was not just about a difference in ideology. It's about a frat boy who never grew up who was drafted for a job that was way to big for him by a group who wanted him solely because they could control him and get what they wanted from the federal government in terms of changes in regulations and consideration for the energy industry. The blind promoted by the self centered and short sighted. It will take years and the efforts of both parties to recover from this stupid power grab. Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the answer to that question goes all the way back to a certain dec. 12, 2000 supreme court decision. . . . -chris b. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Lessons from Katrina --eye opener
Eye-opener as to what really went on in New Orleans:http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/09/africa_in_our_m.php Australian tourists stuck in the Superdome had the same experience. Bud Hopes, a 32-year-old man from Kangaroo Point, Brisbane, took control and may have saved many lives. As the stadium reverted to anarchy he realized whites were in danger, and gathered tourists together for safety. There were 65 of us altogether so we were able to look after each other, especially the girls who were being grabbed and threatened, said Mr. Hopes. They organized escorts for women who had to go to the toilet or for food, and set up a roster of men to stand guard while others slept. We sat through the night just watching each other, not knowing if we would be alive in the morning, Mr. Hopes said. Ninety-eight percent of the people around the world are good, he said; in that place 98 per cent of the people were bad.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com American Renaissance News Africa in our Midst Lessons from Katrina.url Description: pat245240316 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel in a Toyostove?
Hi, it's a big square heater - about 10-15 years old. Runs fine on kero. I was thinking of mixing it and seeing what happens. It doesn't have any logic chips or any electronics. I won't get to it for a while but will post results! -Mike I have tried my biodiesel in a multifuel camping stove made for backpacking use. It is the type that has a fuel bottle separate from the burner and a pump on the bottle for pressurization. It is made by sigg and called the firejet. It is a little difficult to light on kerosene and very difficult on biodiesel. I think the reason is that biodiesel has a high boiling point compared to kerosene although I haven't confirmed this. Once I preheated the vaporizer tube to hight temperature the stove ran beautifully with a nice clean blue flame and no smoke on the biodiesel. I took a picture but I can't post it here :-( . Try it and see. Let us know. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: Is the Toyostove a heater? I broke a couple of kero heaters that way, but they were fussy things with fuzzy logic and so on, though they worked fine on kero. Reclaimed junk, usual high-class Tokyo gomi, so I didn't mind. Otherwise, see: Lamps and stoves http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lamps Best Keith anyone ever try BD in a kerosene Toyostove? 50/50? Is the Toyostove a heater? I broke a couple of kero heaters that way, but they were fussy things with fuzzy logic and so on, though they worked fine on kero. Reclaimed junk, usual high-class Tokyo gomi, so I didn't mind. Otherwise, see: Lamps and stoves http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lamps Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush: What didn't go right?
Hi Joe, that was nicely done, thanks. I've played it for my family and will share more. So who did the non-bush part? And who is JAFO? Taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 13, 2005, at 1:37 PM, Joe Street wrote: As long as we are Bush Bashing...here is a link to a song I composed for protest purposes. Feel free to save a copy if you like it and pass it around! ;-) (Right click the link and select save target if you want to keep a copy) http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Dubya%20Lies.mp3 I hope you enjoy it Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] wind and current power
Thanks Leon, this was helpful and interesting. A few thoughts and questions: A kite at 30K feet would have at least 40K feet of tether, about 12 km of cable. I know there now exist carbon fiber cored, aluminum wrapped, power lines that are both stronger and lighter than copper or the common aluminum and steel lines. If we optimistically assume that the tether package, including control circuits, power lines, and tensile reinforcing cables weighs ~0.5 kg per meter, then the tether would weigh ~6000 kg. And of course we haven't even calculated the weight of the huge blades and 80 MW generator. For comparison, the commercial Chinook heavy lift helicopter has about a 10,000 kg payload. On a smaller scale, anyone who's spent time on a coast knows that there's plenty of wind energy for kiting and para-sailing. I've a few kites that I'd never let a child fly, for fear they'd be carried away. When you feel the kite straining at the tether, it's obvious that there's a lot more power even at a mere 100 meters up. Keith made the point yesterday that JTF was focused on village level technology. It occurs to me that flying a small winged dynamo, off a tower mounted tether, might be worth the extra complexity for the higher return of energy. Even as I write these words I realize that this is a half baked idea. One of the virtues of windmills and wind generators is their great reliability in the face of changing conditions. While they may falter when the wind swings about or goes slack, they'll recover, without intervention, as soon as there's power to drive them. The winged dynamo, in order to be self starting and recovering, would need to do a lot of sensing, computation, and winching. And no matter how smart the software was, there'd be the occasional flukey wind to cause a crash. Adding helium or hot air also adds complexity and additional failure modes, though I was struck by the possibilities of using cogenerated hydrogen to keep a dynamo, tethered to the ground by conductors flying. (Oh the humanity!) Anyhoo, just thinking aloud, has this scheme been tried at the small scale? Taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 13, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Leon Hulett wrote: TarynToo, Sorry, I can't help you with any vision of the Victorian or Scholastic scope of knowledge... But I might add a few things on the wind and my idea. I got a package of wind data on the upper air from an Oceanographic office. This was a compilation of data for 10 years from all around the world. Quite a bit of stuff. They have sites around the world that measure wind speeds of the upper air at different altitudes. Then they look at different altitudes and connect the dots. Then they have a chart of what the wind speeds look like over California, for example. At 30,000 feet they say, for the 10 year period of the data that the average wind energy was 7.5 kW per square meter. They can also present this data month by month. So one can make up 12 graphs that say what the power levels might be for Jan thru Dec. In July, or in the summer months the data shows the wind to be much slower than in Jan and the winter months. Looking at that data in another way I integrated the power from ground to 60,000 feet and estimated the total wind power coming across California as about 1 megawatt per foot of coastline. Lots of energy potential. Other parts of the country are more influenced by the Jet Stream and have average energy densities about twice as high, or 14 kW per square meter. Over Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New York and the New England states, would be the highest in the country, at 30,000 feet. My idea was for an 80 megawatt design. Solar One was about 30 megawatts thermal capacity. If you divide 80 mW by the energy density and an efficiency you can see the frontal area would be quite large. The idea was to have just enough lift from a helium filled portion to provide safety under emergency conditions. The unit would never crash into the ground unless it came apart. But the helium would not sustain it at 30,000 feet either. TetraTech was a company in Pasadena, CA and does provide tethers for submersible equipment. They had envisioned a tether system and equipment that I felt would meet the needs. Of course at altitude, wings on the device would have to provide the lift needed for the tether. The tether would provide the ability to create lift like a kite. Close to ground near touchdown conditions, one would not have to support much tether. The plan was to change altitude if wind conditions became too high. Under summer conditions or low wind conditions I felt some fancy flying would increase the effective wind speed of the device. Like a water skier on a tether behind a boat. He can go faster than the boat under certain conditions. The tether could be used to tack the device in a certain pattern and fly faster than the wind if the
