[Biofuel] Neccesity is the Mother of all Invention

[Jason and Katie]

Dear 
Readers,    We have entered a new era, where the aged and 
true adage "Neccesity is the Mother of all invention." can and --albeit slowly-- 
WILL save us.  To reduce my impact on the world, I have done everything 
financially viable to me at this time. Lowering light wattage, turning off that 
damnable A/C that my wife loves so much, parking my truck, and other 
things.As for how I have helped to lower the collective impact on the world, 
I have been demonstrating to co-workers, and friends, and TOTAL STRANGERS for 
almost 5 years (it doesn't seem to be much, but consider-- I'm only 21) that 
there are alternatives.  Options are the driving force in this life, and no 
matter how bad the situation may seem, how cornered you may feel, there are 
still options.      The real problem on Earth is that 
even though the options are there for everyone to benefit from-- options we have 
been using for quite some time-- others may not know they have similar 
options.   The best way to help our humanly situation, is to not only 
reduce our own impact on the world, but to QUIT CRYING ABOUT IT and bring 
information to people who may not know what options exist. Slowly at first, 
ideas will creep, then as others are brought to the forefront more ideas will 
emerge, thus beginning a wildly uncontrollable chain 
reaction...1..2...4...8...16...32...64...128...256. Our movement must not 
be confined to the libraries and mailing lists of private America, we must be 
shouting from the highest tower and shining inspiration upon the people who want 
most to help, but dont know how.The Lighthouse 
Association
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[Biofuel] Double wall heat exchange - Solar Hot Water Heater

[Ken Dunn]

Hi all,

Sorry for the long subject line but, I thought it may aid in archive
searches...  Is there a home remedy to creating a double wall heat
exchange?  I have contemplated buying two sizes of copper tubing,
inserting the smaller inside the larger and bending the two
simultaneously.  I could see how the inner tubing might kink or
flatten out but, I think that would be unlikely unless I tried to bend
too tight of a radius.  Is there a better home-builder
solution?  Perhaps there is an affordable storage tank
commercially available that makes building a backyard heat exchange
mute anyway.?  I'm going to need to come up with a storage tank
anyway.  I understand the theoretical pros/cons to internal and
external heat exchanges but, what are the real-world practical
differences?

Thanks a bunch,
Take care,
Ken
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Re: [Biofuel] BD anti gel

[garutek]

Jeff, 
Firstly, I really have been spending all my available time 
reading posts here I mean researching my first system. My question is with 
additives can Bio be used in colder climates? any stats on 
that?  
 
Possibly some others like us colder folks behind the 
cheese curtain, could buy from that barrel. I know that I would if I could use 
Bio fuel during our colder weather.
Gary, P.S. first post

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JEFF 
  IHDE 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:10 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] BD anti gel
  
  As it is mid September in Wisconsin our temperature this morning was 45F/ 
  7C. I have been using BD for the past several months with good results. I 
  would like to continue using BD into the colder months.
  After looking at the antigel  products listed at JTF the Wintron 
  product seems to be cost prohibitive. The Lubrizol rep. quoted me a price of 
  $22 per gal. A good price but the only package they offer is a 55 gallon drum. 
  Artic Express has a  2-2.5 gallon package. I am having a hard time with 
  the dealer that handles their product in my area.
  Does anyone have a source for any of these products? Is there someone out 
  there that bought 55 gallons of Lubrizol that would be willing to sell 5 
  gallons?
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery

[Ken Dunn]

S,

Look up "hose" or "hydraulic" in your area.  If you're in the
U.S., you'll likely find a hose house near you.  The choices that
these places offer are generally great.  There are atleast three
advantages: you'll probably be supporting the local economy, they have
access to the catalogs and reference material that can tell you both
what the right stuff is for the job (they normally know or can find
pressure/vacuum ratings and resistances also) , and you will probably
need them again so, you're more likely to talk to the same Schmoe
again.  That will save you some time.  Plus, its what they
do.  

I've worked in a couple of hydraulic shops and I always got excited to help someone that was doing something different.

Good luck,
Take care,
KenOn 9/23/05, magic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello all,   I have lurked on the list for many months... I am building my ownversion of an appleseed based processor. I am looking at methanolrecovery, and was wondering what I can use (flexible tubing) for the
methanol?   My thought is to recover the methanol via applying a vacuum to thesystem. Lowes carries high pressure hoses (I think for pressure washers)which I believe would withstand the vacuum, but unsure if the hose
itself would react poorly with the methanol. (They don't know what thehose is made of, as they aren't provided that information.)   Assistance appreciated.   Thanks,   S___
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proofof globalwarming

You are combining the Carbon the Fuel with O2 from the air. 

1C(12) + 2 O(16) = C02(44) 
3.66 Times as much C02 out as carbon in.


Mark 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray J
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:37 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proofof
globalwarming


how in the hell can you put 1 pound of  something in and get 3 pounds of

something  out... everything i have ever been taught says thats not 
possible 

 never mind... I dont even want to know... this is obviously wy 
over my head...  thanks a lot, now my brain hurts. :-( :-(


Ray J   


Zeke Yewdall wrote:

>For heavy fuels of indeterminate chemical composition, I usually use 
>2.5 to 3 for a rule of thumb for lbs of CO2 produced for each lb of 
>fuel consumed.  I was actually suprised that this example was about the

>same weight of CO2 as fuel.
>
>
>  
>
>>>But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, 
>>>it's not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of 
>>>fuel going into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn 
>>>into two or three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
>>>
>>>Todd Swearingen
>>>  
>>>
>
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>rg
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] windfall tax on big oil

[Derick Giorchino]

Have no fear big brother will figure a way to filter a large % or possibly
all of the revenues for some new pay hike or something stupid. Something
like social security or road tax on California fuel doesn't go where it is
designated. 





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:20 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] windfall tax on big oil




Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll - U.S. drivers cry foul and support
oil-company tax

http://tinyurl.com/8m6pp


Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll
U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A majority of Americans
are convinced they're being gouged at the gas pump, 
and many support a tax on oil companies' profits to 
fund research into alternative energy sources, according
to a new survey.

Eighty-seven percent of U.S. consumers said oil companies
are gouging them on gas prices, according to the telephone
survey of 1,019 adults in mid-September by Opinion Research
Corp. for the Civil Society Institute, a Newton Centre, 
Mass.-based non-profit advocacy group. 

The Institute, funded by donations and foundation grants,
supports a variety of initiatives, including 40mpg.org,
which aims to make 40 miles per gallon the standard for 
all U.S. cars.

Another 7% said very little price gouging is going
 on, 4% said it's not happening at all, and 3% weren't
 sure. The survey has a margin of error of plus, or minus,
 3 percentage points at a 95% confidence level.

The belief in price gouging was consistent across party 
lines, with 82% of Republicans pointing to "some" or 
"a great deal" of price gouging, 91% of Democrats doing 
so, and 87% of independents.

Many consumers appear ready to gouge right back: 79% of
 those surveyed said they support a tax on oil company's
 profits if the money collected goes to research on 
alternative energy sources.

That sentiment crossed political lines to a large extent,
 with 83% of Democrats, 76% of Republicans and 81% of 
independents supporting such a tax to fuel research on
 alternative energy sources.

But there was less overall support for such a tax to fund
 other initiatives: Just 53% of the respondents support
 a tax on oil company profits to fund a direct rebate to
 U.S. drivers, while 70% support the tax to fund wetlands
 restoration in the Gulf Coast to lessen damage from future
 hurricanes. (The survey offered only those three possible
 purposes for the hypothetical tax revenues.)

Confluence of factors

Consumers' cry of price gouging, and apparent willingness
 to embrace alternative energy sources appears sparked by
 a confluence of factors, said Pam Solo, president and 
founder of the Civil Society Institute, in a telephone 
press conference.

"There are several strains of concern converging for people,"
 she said, including steeply higher gas prices, the U.S.'s 
reliance on foreign oil, and global warming.

"Americans have seen ... too little action from Washington
 on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and the dangers 
of too much reliance on foreign oil," Solo said.

And oil company profits aren't helping consumers feel warm
 and fuzzy, she said. "We all know somebody is getting quite
 wealthy over the dilemmas and troubles we're facing as a 
country," she said. "We should be able to share in those profits
 as a society to have greater control of our destiny as a country."

Meanwhile, 81% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that
 the federal government isn't doing enough about high energy prices
 and U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources.

Broken down across political parties: 74% of Republicans agreed 
the federal government isn't doing enough, as did 90% of Democrats
 and 83% of independents.

Let's go hybrid

When asked whether domestic car makers should follow Toyota's lead
 by including hybrid technology in all new cars going forward, 80% 
of consumers agreed, according to the survey.

Eighty-six percent of Democrats agreed domestic makers should focus
 on hybrid technology, as did 73% of Republicans, and 80% of Independents.

The visible success of hybrid cars may be leading more consumers 
to see alternative technologies as one part of a solution to the
 problem of high gas prices, Solo and her colleagues at the Institute said.

Support for hybrid technology was strongest in the West, with 87%
 of consumers saying car makers should pursue all-hybrid fleets, 
compared with 82% in the Northeast, 79% in the Midwest, and 77% 
in the South.

Some consumers also support the idea of higher fuel-efficiency 
standards for regular cars, with 48% of those surveyed saying 
recent gas price hikes make it "much more important" that the 
federal government take steps to require higher fuel-efficiency
 standards.

Twenty-four percent said gas costs make it "somewhat more 
important" that the government address fuel-efficiency 
standards, but 19

Re: [Biofuel] turbocharged vs supercharged diesels

[Trevon Kollars]

Good point Keith...
 
Now that I am back on shore, I am looking for the pictures of the big block and small blocks that I have rebuilt, Robert.
 
Anyhoo, I am looking for the old "wind-up" flashlights and little gadgets of that sort.  Anyone know of where (a website) to find these?  
 
 
Thanks
 
TK Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent.I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability for>>accuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful with>>your facts in the future!>>snip>>No need to be careful just to inspire.Yes there is. It takes both otherwise you'll mislead. Or you've come to the wrong place.Keith Addison>Here is a clip for Smokey if you're interested: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wi >ki/Smokey_Yunick>A little bit on the carburetor for the lamen: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >Carburetor>Even though he liked to "cheat", I like him because of his vision >and application, which is
 why I said "I hope this inspired someone". >I find that knowledge is not gained to its full extent unless you do >the research yourself and have to dig to find it. The drive! The >willing to learn! I guess I spent too much time as an >instructor/facilitator. No need to be careful just to inspire.>>robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>>Trevon Kollars wrote:>> > I was being sarcastic here. Sorry. I was referring to the fact there> > isn't very many supercharged diesels out there. The only difference> > (efficiency wise) between a turbo and a supercharger is the psi and> > speed at which it will produce it.>>My supercharger is about 15% LESS efficient than a turbo. Most of>that inefficiency is expressed as heat.>> > Sorry, Robert, if I have> > insulted your intelligence in some way.>>No sir, you're not insulting
 me.>>> > Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent.>>I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability for>accuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful with>your facts in the future!>>robert luis rabello>"The Edge of Justice">Adventure for Your Mind>http://www.newadventure.ca>>Ranger Supercharger Project Page>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
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[Biofuel] Ian's methode

[garutek]

Could I get some information about why the plans for Ian's 
methods http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor2.html for 
a vacuum processor uses Sulphuric Acid & methoxide rather than Lye? in 
simple terms.
Thanks, Gary
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Re: [Biofuel] info needed

[John I]

Dear Rumen,

I believe the link you're looking for is:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2005/050824.htm

I found this to be very interesting as well but unfortunatly not
enough so that I found out anything more (yet).  If you do find out
more specifics, I, as well as others in the list I'm sure, would
appreciate your letting us know.
G'luck,
John

> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:34:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Rumen Slavov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Biofuel] info needed
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi all,
>   Dear Keith,
>   There was a message in the list about a
> scientist,who patented a process to produce
> bio-plastics from glycerin.I think it is very
> important discovery regarding environmental situation
> and therefor,with my deep apologies,could you point me
> to the link,please?
>   Another one:Has anyone worked with carbonated lay?I
> know,I have to make test batches,but any working
> results will be welcome.
>   Best Regards,
>   Rumen
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Steam catapult assisted take off

[Derick Giorchino]

I saw I article on the history channel about this machine marvels was the
heading but there are lots of those shows. I think you can get the articles
on line. All I can remember at this time is that the brits were the
inventors. Good luck with the search.
Derick.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:04 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Steam catapult assisted take off

Hi guys,

Interesting thread on the jetliner fuel consumption comparisons. For the 
record, I don't have a car, I walk everywhere but if I'm in a hurry I take 
the bus or train, in Switzerland the buses and trains are mainly electric 
and nearly all electricity is hydro here :) And I'm not particularly fond of

flying :-p

Now something a little different.
1. Does anyone know how the steam catapults on an aircraft carrier used to 
shoot the planes off works?
2. What speeds to they get the planes up to?
3. What are its limits? ie max speed attainable or efficient distance of 
operation.

If anyone knows about this stuff any info is appreciated. 'nother idea ;)

Thanks

Jay 


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[Biofuel] biodiesel in the Philippines

[tanuki]

Hi Patrick,

No, can't do that with Seaoil.  They buy their biodiesel from Chemrez.  Them
are the big boys.  :-)  Don't think they'd want to have anything to do with
us small boys.  :-)

The two companies doing bio-diesel here are Senbel Fine Chemicals and
Chemrez.  This is supposed to be another in San Pablo City but they're
holding back a bit due to the issue of DOE accreditation.

I'd like to start homebrewing but am looking at more info because most of
the info on the net are for soya, rapeseed and others but very little on
coconut oil, which is more in abundance here.

I'll be starting in a few weeks some experiments, will keep it posted here.

>Hi Tanuki,
>You may want to partner with Seaoil Philippines. They are a minor oil
>player here.
>I don't think there's someone who's doing homebrewing let me just put it
>this way.. I feel that majority of the biodiesel users here in the
>Philippines.
>Probably
>some do homebrewing
>Regards,
>Patrick

> > >  On 9/21/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would like to link up with people in the Philippines who are
> >interested
> > > > in
> > > > the small scale biodiesel production. Had previously posted here
because
> >I
> > > > noted a spot of Filipinos responding here. Anyone doing homebrewing
in
> >the
> > > > Philippines?


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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[ike aguilar]

hi to alli'm just wondering how the gov. approved to use the the biofuels without setting up with a standard, i,m really confused about this.Chris Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry guys but I'm referring to the Philippine DoE.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke YewdallSent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:10 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in ManilaI don't know how much I would trust the DOE for certain thingsanyway... I trust that their historical data on energy is accurate,but the predictions, not so much. Have you looked at what theyproject the price of a barrel of oil to be in 15 years? Somewherearound $25. I suspect there is a certain amount of "don't rock theboat" mentality there. We've seen this mentality in the EPA, CIA,FBI, and other places, so why should we expect the DOE to be anydifferent? I've worked for DOE, and to publish anything with
 it'sname on it, you have to go through 20 levels of review -- the top oneswhich are often political appointees, and have an interest in notalarming the public, even if their scientists and researchers saythere is a good chance that they should be scared.ZekeOn 9/23/05, Leon Hulett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Chris and Patrick,>> I agree on your standards issue, the government can't make a standard.One> time I searched and searched for the government's definition of"standard".> I couldn't find it and they said try ISO. I found that "ISO" doesn'tmean> "standards" it is a word in itself. To me a standard is "a definitelevel of> quality suitable for a specific defined purpose." I certainly didn'tfind> anything like that. Maybe they finally filled in the blank somewheres.>> I took issue with the definition of "food" as well and wrote upsomething
 on> that, but I don't think mine went over that well, it allowed vitaminsand> minerals in the definition.>> Leon - Original Message -> From: Chris Tan> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Sent: 9/23/05 11:09:04 PM> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila> Hi Patrick, It's not that the government is not strict about standards. Thegovernment> doesn't have a standard in the first place. The government with allits> manpower (which we pay for with our taxes) cannot or would not make a> standard of its own. Take biodiesel for example, I tried contactingDoE> about our government's standard but have not receive any concreteanswer.> And yet Senbel other two big chemical companies are already marketingtheir> expensive biodiesel additive. They are
 dictated by big business or bythe> highest bidder. A pamphlet posted on DoE's website says that biodiesel> cannot be made by cooperatives or such. Guess who they got thepamphlet> from? From who else but Senbel. Regards,>> Chris>> -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of> Patrick Anthony Opaco> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:25 PM> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila> Hi All,>> Thanks for the replies... The reason why I'm a little bit hesitant iswell> mainly because the info drive here in Manila is not that good andsecond> some unscrupulous business men before are selling
 unleaded gas (priorto> E10) that has water in it. That's a real bummer but now they are atthe> hands of the law.>> Probably I'll continue using E10 at my old car and will just fill mynew car> if the masses here would start patronizing E10, coz most of the timethe gas> station that I bought E10 doesn't have that much customers compared tothe> gas stations of Shell, Caltex (Chevron Texaco in the US) and Petron (alocal> venture that has a saudi partner). It's good to know that a lot ofpeople> around the world are using E10/E85, it's just that the standards herein the> Philippines are not that strict. Like for example when you manufacture> Ethanol, you guys there in the commercial level applies strictstandards to> ensure that the product you're selling is really good right? Here inthe> Philippines doesn't go that way. The
 issue I think here is more of the> consumers confidence towards Ethanol because as I've said thestandards here> are not that super strict compared to for example the US.>> To Ramon - E10 is 10% Ethanol blend and 90% unleaded gasoline. I don'tdo> the mixing, I buy it from one of the minor oil players here. The major> players (Shell, Caltex and Petron) don't carry yet Ethanol in their> products.>> By the way guys, how about the computer that is controlling the fuelsystem> or whatever you call that... fuel intake of your car? That won't bemessed> up right if filling up E10?>> So to sum it all, E10 is just your ordinary unleaded fuel providedthat> strict measures/standards are enforced in manufacturing the said fuel?>>
 Regards,>>> Patrick> ___> Biofuel mailing list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.or

[Biofuel] Appleseed methanol recovery

[magic]

Hello all,

   I have lurked on the list for many months... I am building my own 
version of an appleseed based processor. I am looking at methanol 
recovery, and was wondering what I can use (flexible tubing) for the 
methanol?

   My thought is to recover the methanol via applying a vacuum to the 
system. Lowes carries high pressure hoses (I think for pressure washers) 
which I believe would withstand the vacuum, but unsure if the hose 
itself would react poorly with the methanol. (They don't know what the 
hose is made of, as they aren't provided that information.)

   Assistance appreciated.

   Thanks,

   S  


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[Biofuel] Fuel Consumption Reduction Tips (was Sept 1 declared no buy gas day)

[Darryl McMahon]

A while ago I committed to updating my web page on reducing vehicular fuel 
consumption.  It's done now, but as a new page.  You can view it here.

http://www.econogics.com/en/savefuel.htm

or navigate to it from the home page at

http://www.econogics.com/

Darryl McMahon

> Keith, good idea.  I'll keep track here too.  It will give me an excuse to 
> update my
> page at http://www.econogics.com/en/enenergy.htm#Transportation .  It needs 
> some
> tidying up anyway.
> 
> Darryl
> 
> 
> Date sent:Tue, 30 Aug 2005 02:21:24 +0900
> To:   Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject:  Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day
> Send reply to:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>  
>  
> 
> > Hi Darryl
> > 
> > Very nice!
> > 
> > >I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above.  My point 
> > >is,
> > >don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
> > 
> > I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far.
> > 
> > If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey 
> > to Forever for it, might help.
> > 
> > It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work 
> > out that way I don't mind.
> > 
> > Best wishes
> > 
> > Keith
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their 
> > >gasoline stations up
> > >for sale.  After all, the managers are required to maximize the 
> > >returns for their
> > >shareholders.  If the stations are losing money, they have to dump 
> > >them.  I won't
> > >be holding my breath.
> > >
> > >As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before.
> > >
> > >If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever 
> > >reason,
> > >here's a start on what you can do to make a difference.
> > >
> > >1)  Walk somewhere.  Anywhere.  Just leave your guzzler parked.
> > >
> > >2)  Get a bicycle.  Preferably something used.  Try your local 
> > >FreeCycle, or bike
> > >repair co-op, or a used bike dealer.  Find something comfortable and 
> > >practical for
> > >your use.  Then use it.
> > >
> > >3)  Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle.  Correct if 
> > >necessary.  Slight
> > >overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation.  
> > >Repeat
> > >monthly or more frequently if required.
> > >
> > >4)  Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. 
> > >Check owner's
> > >manual for details.  Check for dragging brakes, emissions control 
> > >system problems,
> > >etc while you are at it.
> > >
> > >5)  Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining).
> > >
> > >6)  Use public transit when available and appropriate.  Or carpool.
> > >
> > >7)  Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your 
> > >vehicle.  There are
> > >many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE 
> > >dual-fuel incentive,
> > >where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable.  Check 
> > >your
> > >vehicle manual.  Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate (or 
> > >make your
> > >own, of course).
> > >
> > >8)  Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra 
> > >weight uses more
> > >energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. 
> > >(e.g. sand and salt
> > >mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well).
> > >
> > >9)  When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / 
> > >energy wise labels.
> > >
> > >10)  When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something 
> > >that is as fuel-
> > >efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not 
> > >necessarily all of
> > >your needs.  You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements.
> > >
> > >11)  If you want to make a political statement, pick an oil company 
> > >to boycott or
> > >support.  Personally, I try to buy from MacEwen's because they are 
> > >local and have
> > >been promoting ethanol blend here since before it was fashionable.  I 
> > >boycott
> > >Exxon/Esso/Imperial Oil due to their horrendous environmental record (and 
> > >other
> > >undesirable practices).  Trust me, if we actually managed to drop Exxon's 
> > >gross
> > >revenue in a regional market by 10% for a quarter, that would definitely 
> > >get
> > >their attention.  Giving their station attendants and cashiers a quiet day 
> > >won't.
> > >
> > >12)  Try to drive to avoid periods of traffic congestion.  You get 0 mpg 
> > >when
> > >idling in stopped traffic.
> > >
> > >I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above.  My point 
> > >is,
> > >don't act for a day, act for a lifetime.
> > >
> > >Darryl McMahon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"mphee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Station owners really don't make much money off of gas.  Their 
> > >lucky to make a
> > > > nickel a gallon.  They make their money on what'

Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Appal Energy]

Richard,

 > You take one pound of fuel and add the weight of the oxygen
 > you pick up from the air as you fly and you get three pounds
 > out in the exhaust.

Don't forget to subtract the weight of the hydrogen that's burned off 
before you add the weight of the oxygen.

Todd Swearingen

Tinkerer and watchmaker at large..

> Dear Ray,
>
> I think the problem is that the learned responders to your question 
> failed to start at the beginning.  The weight of the carbon dioxide is 
> the sum of the weight of the fuel plus the weight of the oxygen from 
> the air that combines with the fuel.  The weight of the oxygen is not 
> figured in the weight of the fuel as it is added literally on the fly 
> as the jet passes through the air.  You take one pound of fuel and add 
> the weight of the oxygen you pick up from the air as you fly and you 
> get three pounds out in the exhaust.   You asked for the time and they 
> told you how to make a watch.
>
> Rick
>
> Ray J wrote:
>
>>how in the hell can you put 1 pound of  something in and get 3 pounds of 
>>something  out... everything i have ever been taught says thats not 
>>possible 
>>
>> never mind... I dont even want to know... this is obviously wy 
>>over my head...  thanks a lot, now my brain hurts. :-( :-(
>>
>>
>>Ray J   
>>
>>
>>Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>For heavy fuels of indeterminate chemical composition, I usually use
>>>2.5 to 3 for a rule of thumb for lbs of CO2 produced for each lb of
>>>fuel consumed.  I was actually suprised that this example was about
>>>the same weight of CO2 as fuel.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's
>not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going
>into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or
>three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
>
>Todd Swearingen
> 
>
>
>
>>>___
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>  
>>
>
>
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>
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[Biofuel] What members are doing (was global warming "tipping point")

[Darryl McMahon]

At Keith's invitation, and hoping it serves to help or motivate others, here 
goes.

Let me start by saying that small things are as important as big things - they 
all 
add up.  I have been working away at these things for some time, so I hope the 
list 
doesn't induce sleep.

Perhaps the most important thing I do is try to spread information I think is 
useful.  That includes button-holing people at events, boring people at social 
gatherings and maintaining much of the website at www.econogics.com, including 
responding to correspondence that arrives there.

I think reducing our use of fossil fuels is critical to our future, not just 
because of global warming, but also because we are fouling our nest with air, 
water, soil, thermal and noise pollution in their use.

I started with electric cars.  I picked up the plates for my Porsche 914 
conversion 
today.  I plan to retrieve the car from the mechanic on Monday, show it Monday 
night at a meeting, and start driving it on Tuesday.  I've lost track of how 
many I 
have built, re-built or otherwise had a hand in by now.  I'm aware of the 
arguments 
against EVs, but they work for me.  I buy Green Tags to offset more than the 
amount 
of electricity my EVs consume, so they're effectively powered by sustainable 
energy 
sources.  More on EVs at http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm .

I finally have a diesel vehicle running on B20.  B100 some day, produced at 
home, 
but all these projects take precious time.

I attended Ottawa Car-Free Day yesterday (yes, I went by public transit).  
Frankly, 
it was disappointing, bordering on sham.  I have helped organize other 
environmental events in the past.  Perhaps I should again.

Today I made another batch of salsa using the tomatoes grown without pesticides 
or 
commerical fertilizers (but lots of compost) in our sideyard garden.  The 
peppers 
are grown either by me or my sister in law, the onions are local as well.  We 
won't 
be self-sufficient on this small urban lot, but it's something to reduce food-
miles.

I have put some effort into reducing our fossil fuel consumption for heating 
our 
house and domestic hot water.  I have built and installed a simple, seasonal, 
solar 
water pre-heater.  I purchased second-hand solar heating panels, and installed 
those on our house.  I have dramatically upgraded the insulation in our attic, 
and 
where I can in the walls (e.g., as part of the solar heating panels 
installation).  
We have installed insulated blinds on some windows, and window quilts ( more on 
window quilts at http://www.econogics.com/busys/wnquilt.htm ).

To reduce solar gain and keep our house more comfortable in the summer, I 
designed 
and fabricated some shade cloths fitted to our sun-facing windows.  (More on 
shade 
cloths at http://www.econogics.com/busys/shadecl.htm ).

I have served on citizen's committees on the subject of landfill diversion and 
greenhouse gas reduction, on company Green Teams and several sustainable 
transportation groups.  

We harvest rainwater for the garden at the house, and as our primary water 
source 
at the cottage.

I monitor our household electrical use, and take steps to reduce it.

Well, I'm going to sign off at this point.  Bedtime calls.

Darryl McMahon

Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Terry, tallex and all
> 
> > >Hello,
> > >Why not discuss the story and implications right here.
> > >This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference.
> 
> Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of 
> carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most 
> governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows.
> 
> It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody 
> has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and 
> stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil 
> fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the 
> millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide.
> 
> Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using 
> biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own 
> projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea 
> existed, there must be many more of them.
> 
> >I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference.  Were is
> >the starting gate?  Lets get started.
> 
> Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What 
> would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already?
> 
> If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it 
> that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >
> >Terry Dyck
> > >Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil
> > >fuel suppliers
> > >won't win in the long run if we face them head on.
> > >We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from ou

Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Richard Littrell]

Dear Ray,

I think the problem is that the learned responders to your question
failed to start at the beginning.  The weight of the carbon dioxide is
the sum of the weight of the fuel plus the weight of the oxygen from
the air that combines with the fuel.  The weight of the oxygen is not
figured in the weight of the fuel as it is added literally on the fly
as the jet passes through the air.  You take one pound of fuel and add
the weight of the oxygen you pick up from the air as you fly and you
get three pounds out in the exhaust.   You asked for the time and they
told you how to make a watch.

Rick

Ray J wrote:

  how in the hell can you put 1 pound of  something in and get 3 pounds of 
something  out... everything i have ever been taught says thats not 
possible 

 never mind... I dont even want to know... this is obviously wy 
over my head...  thanks a lot, now my brain hurts. :-( :-(


Ray J   


Zeke Yewdall wrote:

  
  
For heavy fuels of indeterminate chemical composition, I usually use
2.5 to 3 for a rule of thumb for lbs of CO2 produced for each lb of
fuel consumed.  I was actually suprised that this example was about
the same weight of CO2 as fuel.


 



  
But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's
not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going
into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or
three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.

Todd Swearingen
 


  

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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Appal Energy]

Ray,

> how in the hell can you put 1 pound of
> something in and get 3 pounds of something
> out... everything i have ever been taught
> says thats not possible

Think of it like three different spherical magnets, one small, one medium and 
one large. All of them weigh differently because they are different sizes, but 
each cubic inch of material weighs the same.

At the start, the medium sphere is joined to the small sphere. (This represents 
the carbon atom and the hydrogen atom.) After the hydrogen is burnt off the 
medium sphere (carbon) is still magnetic and it starts to seek something else 
magnetic to bond to. The most magnetic thing near it (the large oxygen sphere) 
zips in to bond with the medium sphere (carbon).

Now you have a medium and a large sphere bonded together where you once had a 
medium and a small sphere. Since the large oxygen magnet weighs more than the 
small hydrogen magnet you have a pair of magnets that now weighs considerably 
more than the original pair.

Way simple and only partly accurate, but concise enough for a person to get 
their brain around the first or second time they think about it.

Just don't start thinking about how small all these particles are and how many 
hundreds of billions are shifting around every millionth of a second inside a 
space the size of a pea and you shouldn't feel too overwhelmed with the general 
concept of atomic polarities/attractions.

Todd Swearingen


>how in the hell can you put 1 pound of  something in and get 3 pounds of 
>something  out... everything i have ever been taught says thats not 
>possible 
>
> never mind... I dont even want to know... this is obviously wy 
>over my head...  thanks a lot, now my brain hurts. :-( :-(
>
>
>Ray J   
>
>
>Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
>  
>
>>For heavy fuels of indeterminate chemical composition, I usually use
>>2.5 to 3 for a rule of thumb for lbs of CO2 produced for each lb of
>>fuel consumed.  I was actually suprised that this example was about
>>the same weight of CO2 as fuel.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's
not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going
into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or
three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.

Todd Swearingen
 



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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof ofglobalwarming

[Zeke Yewdall]

When I look up a Boeing 747-200 I get about 365 tonnes for the total
take off weight, with a maximum fuel weight of about 160 tonnes, for a
range of 13,000 km.  This translates into 480 tonnes of CO2 for a
8,000 mile trip.

For a smaller Airbus A320-200 the takeoff weight is 75 tonnes, with 18
tonnes of fuel for a 5000 km range, which when you crunch all the
numbers, gives about 140 tonnes of CO2 for a 8000mile flight.

Their number is sort of between these two so I guess it makes sense.

Data from http://www.flybernhard.de/ueb_eng.htm



On 9/23/05, bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> From: "Chris lloyd" wrote:
>
> > Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled by a
> jumbo
> > jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris
>
> H,
>   The standard jumbo "hop" without refuelling, at least from
> these here parts of the world, averages 8,000 miles. According to the above
> math that means 280 tons of CO2 added to the atmosphere. Scary, until you
> realise that a jumbo only weighs around 120 tons all up. Question: where
> does the extra weight come from?
> Just asking,
> Bob.
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof ofglobalwarming

[bmolloy]

From: "Chris lloyd" wrote:

> Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled by a
jumbo
> jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris

H,
  The standard jumbo "hop" without refuelling, at least from
these here parts of the world, averages 8,000 miles. According to the above
math that means 280 tons of CO2 added to the atmosphere. Scary, until you
realise that a jumbo only weighs around 120 tons all up. Question: where
does the extra weight come from?
Just asking,
Bob.


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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Zeke Yewdall]

One pound of fuel plus two pounds of oxygen from the air = 3 lbs of exhaust

On 9/23/05, Ray J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> how in the hell can you put 1 pound of  something in and get 3 pounds of
> something  out... everything i have ever been taught says thats not
> possible
>
>  never mind... I dont even want to know... this is obviously wy
> over my head...  thanks a lot, now my brain hurts. :-( :-(
>
>
> Ray J
>
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
> >For heavy fuels of indeterminate chemical composition, I usually use
> >2.5 to 3 for a rule of thumb for lbs of CO2 produced for each lb of
> >fuel consumed.  I was actually suprised that this example was about
> >the same weight of CO2 as fuel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's
> >>>not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going
> >>>into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or
> >>>three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
> >>>
> >>>Todd Swearingen
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >___
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Ray J]

how in the hell can you put 1 pound of  something in and get 3 pounds of 
something  out... everything i have ever been taught says thats not 
possible 

 never mind... I dont even want to know... this is obviously wy 
over my head...  thanks a lot, now my brain hurts. :-( :-(


Ray J   


Zeke Yewdall wrote:

>For heavy fuels of indeterminate chemical composition, I usually use
>2.5 to 3 for a rule of thumb for lbs of CO2 produced for each lb of
>fuel consumed.  I was actually suprised that this example was about
>the same weight of CO2 as fuel.
>
>
>  
>
>>>But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's
>>>not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going
>>>into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or
>>>three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
>>>
>>>Todd Swearingen
>>>  
>>>
>
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>  
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Re: [Biofuel] First bach of Biodiesel

[JJJN]

Эсперанто, thats how the founder of esperanto spelled it however it is 
an interesting concept though...

Mike Weaver wrote:

>Esperanto!
>
>JJJN wrote:
>
>  
>
>>If you wish to learn what was said by those who offer their experience, 
>>please google" translation software" and you can get some great help in 
>>deciphering, as well as learn a great deal about linguistics of others 
>>in the process.  It does require some time but not like it used to.
>>
>>I really have to agree with Keith on this one, as it seems though an 
>>unhealthy number of people in the USA think that no one else has 
>>anything to say or bring to the table - unless they speak fluent 
>>English.  That attitude is just a more suppressed form of racism 
>>enough on that ...my opinion only.  Sorry no data to back it up just gut 
>>feelings.
>>
>>Jim
>>Wisdom to all
>>
>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
Hey no fair I can't read this reply?
I wanted to hear it too.
Brian Rodgers
  

 



>>>Maybe it's "no fair" when both of them and very many others here 
>>>struggle to read our imperialistic English all the time?
>>>
>>>Best wishes
>>>
>>>Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
On 9/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

 



>Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em consideração
>uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior
>temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num reactor à
>pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC pois  a 
>
>
>   
>
>  
>
temperatura de
  

 



>ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC.
>
>Boa sorte e disponha sempre
>
>Filipe Paulette
>Chemical Engineer
>
>Citando joão martins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>Hi there,
>
>I plan to start doing the first bach of biodiesel, and
>I will use Methanol.
>
>I'd like to know if we need always to heat everything
>to 50ºC, and way???
>
>Best Regards
>João Martins
>www.martinsportscar.com
>
>
>   
>
>  
>
>>>___
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
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>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>  
>

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[Biofuel] Venezuela or Iran first?

[Zeke Yewdall]

Okay, this an admitedly anti-Bush source, but I have to say that he
makes a very convincing arguement, given the history of this
administration.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_whi_050923_the_inevitable_war_w.htm

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Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Gustl Steiner-Zehender]

Hallo Folks,

Finally entering senility and answering my own mails:

Friday, 23 September, 2005, 14:07:11, I wrote:
...snip...

GSZ> And  I  am  wondering how many people are intelligent enough to wonder
GSZ> what  is  happening  rather  than  take the word of some talking heads
GSZ> representing  mammon  and selfish interests to both the short and long
 term *detriment*
GSZ> to the rest of humanity and the environment with all it contains.

Happy Happy,

Gustl
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, 
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[Leon Hulett]

Dear John, [I've always wanted to write that.]

I think it means just what ISO says it means:
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/aboutiso/introduction/index.html#three

"What ISO's name means

Because "International Organization for Standardization" would have
different abbreviations in different languages ("IOS" in English, "OIN" in
French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), it was decided at
the outset to use a word derived from the Greek isos, meaning "equal".
Therefore, whatever the country, whatever the language, the short form of
the organization's name is always ISO."

The "s" is ISO is just the letter "s" from the Greek word for equal. Or
nowadays, the middle letter of the copyright name ISO. It is not, I repeat
NOT an abbreviation.

It looks like they have dressed things up a lot since I checked five years
ago. I quess I will have to go looking for their definition of "standard"
again to see if it exists now. Maybe this is just trivia at this point.
Thanks for your question though.

Leon

> [Original Message]
> From: John Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Date: 9/23/05 1:01:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
>
> Huh? What do you think the S in ISO stands for?
>
> http://www.iso.org/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage
>
>
> Leon Hulett wrote:
> > Chris and Patrick,
> >  
> > I agree on your standards issue, the government can't make a standard. 
> > One time I searched and searched for the government's definition of 
> > "standard". I couldn't find it and they said try ISO. I found that
"ISO" 
> > doesn't mean "standards" it is a word in itself. To me a standard is "a 
> > definite level of quality suitable for a specific defined purpose." I 
> > certainly didn't find anything like that. Maybe they finally filled in 
> > the blank somewheres.
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Gustl Steiner-Zehender]

Hallo Zeke,

Friday, 23 September, 2005, 12:43:20, you wrote:

ZY> Yes -- our capabilities have expanded alot since then.  Some of those
ZY> other countries did take out their entire "world" too -- it just
ZY> happened to be one river basin was the extent of their reach.  Global
ZY> warming does present more disturbing questions about rebuilding
ZY> however, since there is no "somewhere else" to rise.

Perhaps   this   is   not   worth   quibbling about but it was not the
"entire"  world which was taken out but rather the entire known world.
A significant difference.

ZY> I wonder if any of the dinosaurs were intelligent enough to wonder
ZY> what was happening to their world (talking of the climate and plant
ZY> changes, before the comet hit and sort of finished it)

And  I  am  wondering how many people are intelligent enough to wonder
what  is  happening  rather  than  take the word of some talking heads
representing  mammon  and selfish interests to both the short and long
term interests of the rest of humanity and the environment with all it
contains.

...snip...

Happy Happy,

Gustl
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, 
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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[Biofuel] info needed

[Rumen Slavov]

Hi all,
  Dear Keith,
  There was a message in the list about a
scientist,who patented a process to produce
bio-plastics from glycerin.I think it is very
important discovery regarding environmental situation
and therefor,with my deep apologies,could you point me
to the link,please?
  Another one:Has anyone worked with carbonated lay?I
know,I have to make test batches,but any working
results will be welcome.
  Best Regards,
  Rumen




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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[Zeke Yewdall]

Ooops.

On 9/24/05, Chris Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry guys but I'm referring to the Philippine DoE.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:10 AM
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
>
> I don't know how much I would trust the DOE for certain things
> anyway...  I trust that their historical data on energy is accurate,
> but the predictions, not so much.  Have you looked at what they
> project the price of a barrel of oil to be in 15 years?  Somewhere
> around $25. I suspect there is a certain amount of "don't rock the
> boat" mentality there.We've seen this mentality in the EPA, CIA,
> FBI, and other places, so why should we expect the DOE to be any
> different?  I've worked for DOE, and to publish anything with it's
> name on it, you have to go through 20 levels of review -- the top ones
> which are often political appointees, and have an interest in not
> alarming the public, even if their scientists and researchers say
> there is a good chance that they should be scared.
>
> Zeke
>
> On 9/23/05, Leon Hulett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Chris and Patrick,
> >
> > I agree on your standards issue, the government can't make a standard.
> One
> > time I searched and searched for the government's definition of
> "standard".
> > I couldn't find it and they said try ISO. I found that "ISO" doesn't
> mean
> > "standards" it is a word in itself. To me a standard is "a definite
> level of
> > quality suitable for a specific defined purpose." I certainly didn't
> find
> > anything like that. Maybe they finally filled in the blank somewheres.
> >
> > I took issue with the definition of "food" as well and wrote up
> something on
> > that, but I don't think mine went over that well, it allowed vitamins
> and
> > minerals in the definition.
> >
> > Leon
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Chris Tan
> > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Sent: 9/23/05 11:09:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Patrick,
> >
> >
> >
> > It's not that the government is not strict about standards. The
> government
> > doesn't have a standard in the first place. The government with all
> its
> > manpower (which we pay for with our taxes) cannot or would not make a
> > standard of its own. Take biodiesel for example, I tried contacting
> DoE
> > about our government's standard but have not receive any concrete
> answer.
> > And yet Senbel other two big chemical companies are already marketing
> their
> > expensive biodiesel additive. They are dictated by big business or by
> the
> > highest bidder. A pamphlet posted on DoE's website says that biodiesel
> > cannot be made by cooperatives or such. Guess who they got the
> pamphlet
> > from? From who else but Senbel.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> > Patrick Anthony Opaco
> > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:25 PM
> > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the replies... The reason why I'm a little bit hesitant is
> well
> > mainly because the info drive here in Manila is not that good and
> second
> > some unscrupulous business men before are selling unleaded gas (prior
> to
> > E10) that has water in it. That's a real bummer but now they are at
> the
> > hands of the law.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Probably I'll continue using E10 at my old car and will just fill my
> new car
> > if the masses here would start patronizing E10, coz most of the time
> the gas
> > station that I bought E10 doesn't have that much customers compared to
> the
> > gas stations of Shell, Caltex (Chevron Texaco in the US) and Petron (a
> local
> > venture that has a saudi partner). It's good to know that a lot of
> people
> > around the world are using E10/E85, it's just that the standards here
> in the
> > Philippines are not that strict. Like for example when you manufacture
> > Ethanol, you guys there in the commercial level applies strict
> standards to
> > ensure that the product you're selling is really good right? Here in
> the
> > Philippines doesn't go that way. The issue I think here is more of the
> > consumers confidence towards Ethanol because as I've said the
> standards here
> > are not that super strict compared to for example the US.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To Ramon - E10 is 10% Ethanol blend and 90% unleaded gasoline. I don't
> do
> > the mixing, I buy it from one of the minor oil players here. The major
> > players (Shell, Caltex and Petron) don't carry yet Ethanol in their
> > products.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > By the way guys, how about the computer that is controlling the fuel
> system
> > or whateve

Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[Chris Tan]

Sorry guys but I'm referring to the Philippine DoE.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:10 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

I don't know how much I would trust the DOE for certain things
anyway...  I trust that their historical data on energy is accurate,
but the predictions, not so much.  Have you looked at what they
project the price of a barrel of oil to be in 15 years?  Somewhere
around $25. I suspect there is a certain amount of "don't rock the
boat" mentality there.We've seen this mentality in the EPA, CIA,
FBI, and other places, so why should we expect the DOE to be any
different?  I've worked for DOE, and to publish anything with it's
name on it, you have to go through 20 levels of review -- the top ones
which are often political appointees, and have an interest in not
alarming the public, even if their scientists and researchers say
there is a good chance that they should be scared.

Zeke

On 9/23/05, Leon Hulett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Chris and Patrick,
>
> I agree on your standards issue, the government can't make a standard.
One
> time I searched and searched for the government's definition of
"standard".
> I couldn't find it and they said try ISO. I found that "ISO" doesn't
mean
> "standards" it is a word in itself. To me a standard is "a definite
level of
> quality suitable for a specific defined purpose." I certainly didn't
find
> anything like that. Maybe they finally filled in the blank somewheres.
>
> I took issue with the definition of "food" as well and wrote up
something on
> that, but I don't think mine went over that well, it allowed vitamins
and
> minerals in the definition.
>
> Leon
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Chris Tan
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: 9/23/05 11:09:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
>
>
>
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
>
>
> It's not that the government is not strict about standards. The
government
> doesn't have a standard in the first place. The government with all
its
> manpower (which we pay for with our taxes) cannot or would not make a
> standard of its own. Take biodiesel for example, I tried contacting
DoE
> about our government's standard but have not receive any concrete
answer.
> And yet Senbel other two big chemical companies are already marketing
their
> expensive biodiesel additive. They are dictated by big business or by
the
> highest bidder. A pamphlet posted on DoE's website says that biodiesel
> cannot be made by cooperatives or such. Guess who they got the
pamphlet
> from? From who else but Senbel.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Patrick Anthony Opaco
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:25 PM
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the replies... The reason why I'm a little bit hesitant is
well
> mainly because the info drive here in Manila is not that good and
second
> some unscrupulous business men before are selling unleaded gas (prior
to
> E10) that has water in it. That's a real bummer but now they are at
the
> hands of the law.
>
>
>
>
>
> Probably I'll continue using E10 at my old car and will just fill my
new car
> if the masses here would start patronizing E10, coz most of the time
the gas
> station that I bought E10 doesn't have that much customers compared to
the
> gas stations of Shell, Caltex (Chevron Texaco in the US) and Petron (a
local
> venture that has a saudi partner). It's good to know that a lot of
people
> around the world are using E10/E85, it's just that the standards here
in the
> Philippines are not that strict. Like for example when you manufacture
> Ethanol, you guys there in the commercial level applies strict
standards to
> ensure that the product you're selling is really good right? Here in
the
> Philippines doesn't go that way. The issue I think here is more of the
> consumers confidence towards Ethanol because as I've said the
standards here
> are not that super strict compared to for example the US.
>
>
>
>
>
> To Ramon - E10 is 10% Ethanol blend and 90% unleaded gasoline. I don't
do
> the mixing, I buy it from one of the minor oil players here. The major
> players (Shell, Caltex and Petron) don't carry yet Ethanol in their
> products.
>
>
>
>
>
> By the way guys, how about the computer that is controlling the fuel
system
> or whatever you call that... fuel intake of your car? That won't be
messed
> up right if filling up E10?
>
>
>
>
>
> So to sum it all, E10 is just your ordinary unleaded fuel provided
that
> strict measures/standards are enforced in manufacturing the said fuel?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Patrick
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@susta

[Biofuel] FW: biodiesel in the Philippines

[Chris Tan]

To Tanuki,

 

You might want to contact
Angelito Aboag.

 

-Original Message-
From: Angelito Abaoag
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Friday, May
 07, 2004 10:53 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] start-up biodiesel
project

 

good day to all

 

I've been reading all comments and inquiries to this

group for the last 4 months. and thru the comments i

learned a lot.

 

we are currently conducting a
feasibility of

converting the high-fat waste
by-products of

slaughterhouse here in Manila,
 Philippines to a

biodiesel.
our estimate waste generation per day is

around 5 tons.

 

we are currently designing the
conversion model

pattern after several designs i got from several

internet sites. 

 

my questions are 1) which is more
feasible to create,

a big unit or several units? in terms of safety,

economics, etc and 2) we intend
to use the diesel are

fuel for generators rather than
to cars, is it a wise

choice?

 

thank you

 

lito
abaoag

eco-logic ventures inc

manila, philippines

 

 

 

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-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Anthony Opaco
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:33 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel
in the Philippines

 



Hi Tanuki,





 





You may want to partner with Seaoil Philippines.
They are a minor oil player here. 





 





I don't think there's someone who's doing homebrewing let me just put
it this way.. I feel that majority of the biodiesel users here in the Philippines
buy their brew at the gas station (Seaoil, Flying V).. Probably some do
homebrewing 





 





Regards,





Patrick

 





On 9/21/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I would like to link up
with people in the Philippines
who are interested in
the small scale biodiesel production.  Had previously posted here
because I 
noted a spot of Filipinos responding here.  Anyone doing homebrewing
in the
Philippines?


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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[Zeke Yewdall]

I don't know how much I would trust the DOE for certain things
anyway...  I trust that their historical data on energy is accurate,
but the predictions, not so much.  Have you looked at what they
project the price of a barrel of oil to be in 15 years?  Somewhere
around $25. I suspect there is a certain amount of "don't rock the
boat" mentality there.We've seen this mentality in the EPA, CIA,
FBI, and other places, so why should we expect the DOE to be any
different?  I've worked for DOE, and to publish anything with it's
name on it, you have to go through 20 levels of review -- the top ones
which are often political appointees, and have an interest in not
alarming the public, even if their scientists and researchers say
there is a good chance that they should be scared.

Zeke

On 9/23/05, Leon Hulett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Chris and Patrick,
>
> I agree on your standards issue, the government can't make a standard. One
> time I searched and searched for the government's definition of "standard".
> I couldn't find it and they said try ISO. I found that "ISO" doesn't mean
> "standards" it is a word in itself. To me a standard is "a definite level of
> quality suitable for a specific defined purpose." I certainly didn't find
> anything like that. Maybe they finally filled in the blank somewheres.
>
> I took issue with the definition of "food" as well and wrote up something on
> that, but I don't think mine went over that well, it allowed vitamins and
> minerals in the definition.
>
> Leon
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Chris Tan
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: 9/23/05 11:09:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
>
>
>
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
>
>
> It's not that the government is not strict about standards. The government
> doesn't have a standard in the first place. The government with all its
> manpower (which we pay for with our taxes) cannot or would not make a
> standard of its own. Take biodiesel for example, I tried contacting DoE
> about our government's standard but have not receive any concrete answer.
> And yet Senbel other two big chemical companies are already marketing their
> expensive biodiesel additive. They are dictated by big business or by the
> highest bidder. A pamphlet posted on DoE's website says that biodiesel
> cannot be made by cooperatives or such. Guess who they got the pamphlet
> from? From who else but Senbel.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Patrick Anthony Opaco
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:25 PM
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the replies... The reason why I'm a little bit hesitant is well
> mainly because the info drive here in Manila is not that good and second
> some unscrupulous business men before are selling unleaded gas (prior to
> E10) that has water in it. That's a real bummer but now they are at the
> hands of the law.
>
>
>
>
>
> Probably I'll continue using E10 at my old car and will just fill my new car
> if the masses here would start patronizing E10, coz most of the time the gas
> station that I bought E10 doesn't have that much customers compared to the
> gas stations of Shell, Caltex (Chevron Texaco in the US) and Petron (a local
> venture that has a saudi partner). It's good to know that a lot of people
> around the world are using E10/E85, it's just that the standards here in the
> Philippines are not that strict. Like for example when you manufacture
> Ethanol, you guys there in the commercial level applies strict standards to
> ensure that the product you're selling is really good right? Here in the
> Philippines doesn't go that way. The issue I think here is more of the
> consumers confidence towards Ethanol because as I've said the standards here
> are not that super strict compared to for example the US.
>
>
>
>
>
> To Ramon - E10 is 10% Ethanol blend and 90% unleaded gasoline. I don't do
> the mixing, I buy it from one of the minor oil players here. The major
> players (Shell, Caltex and Petron) don't carry yet Ethanol in their
> products.
>
>
>
>
>
> By the way guys, how about the computer that is controlling the fuel system
> or whatever you call that... fuel intake of your car? That won't be messed
> up right if filling up E10?
>
>
>
>
>
> So to sum it all, E10 is just your ordinary unleaded fuel provided that
> strict measures/standards are enforced in manufacturing the said fuel?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Patrick
> ___
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> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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>
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> messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[John Hayes]

Huh? What do you think the S in ISO stands for?

http://www.iso.org/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage


Leon Hulett wrote:
> Chris and Patrick,
>  
> I agree on your standards issue, the government can't make a standard. 
> One time I searched and searched for the government's definition of 
> "standard". I couldn't find it and they said try ISO. I found that "ISO" 
> doesn't mean "standards" it is a word in itself. To me a standard is "a 
> definite level of quality suitable for a specific defined purpose." I 
> certainly didn't find anything like that. Maybe they finally filled in 
> the blank somewheres.

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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[Leon Hulett]

Chris and Patrick,
 
I agree on your standards issue, the government can't make a standard. One time I searched and searched for the government's definition of "standard". I couldn't find it and they said try ISO. I found that "ISO" doesn't mean "standards" it is a word in itself. To me a standard is "a definite level of quality suitable for a specific defined purpose." I certainly didn't find anything like that. Maybe they finally filled in the blank somewheres.
 
I took issue with the definition of "food" as well and wrote up something on that, but I don't think mine went over that well, it allowed vitamins and minerals in the definition.
 
Leon
 

- Original Message - 
From: Chris Tan 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: 9/23/05 11:09:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila


Hi Patrick,
 
It’s not that the government is not strict about standards. The government doesn’t have a standard in the first place. The government with all its manpower (which we pay for with our taxes) cannot or would not make a standard of its own. Take biodiesel for example, I tried contacting DoE about our government’s standard but have not receive any concrete answer. And yet Senbel other two big chemical companies are already marketing their expensive biodiesel additive. They are dictated by big business or by the highest bidder. A pamphlet posted on DoE’s website says that biodiesel cannot be made by cooperatives or such. Guess who they got the pamphlet from? From who else but Senbel. 
 
Regards,
Chris
 
 
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Anthony OpacoSent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:25 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
 

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the replies... The reason why I'm a little bit hesitant is well mainly because the info drive here in Manila is not that good and second some unscrupulous business men before are selling unleaded gas (prior to E10) that has water in it. That's a real bummer but now they are at the hands of the law. 

 

Probably I'll continue using E10 at my old car and will just fill my new car if the masses here would start patronizing E10, coz most of the time the gas station that I bought E10 doesn't have that much customers compared to the gas stations of Shell, Caltex (Chevron Texaco in the US) and Petron (a local venture that has a saudi partner). It's good to know that a lot of people around the world are using E10/E85, it's just that the standards here in the Philippines are not that strict. Like for example when you manufacture Ethanol, you guys there in the commercial level applies strict standards to ensure that the product you're selling is really good right? Here in the Philippines doesn't go that way. The issue I think here is more of the consumers confidence towards Ethanol because as I've said the standards here are not that super strict compared to for example the US. 

 

To Ramon - E10 is 10% Ethanol blend and 90% unleaded gasoline. I don't do the mixing, I buy it from one of the minor oil players here. The major players (Shell, Caltex and Petron) don't carry yet Ethanol in their products. 

 

By the way guys, how about the computer that is controlling the fuel system or whatever you call that... fuel intake of your car? That won't be messed up right if filling up E10?

 

So to sum it all, E10 is just your ordinary unleaded fuel provided that strict measures/standards are enforced in manufacturing the said fuel?

 

Regards,

Patrick___
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Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Zeke Yewdall]

Yes -- our capabilities have expanded alot since then.  Some of those
other countries did take out their entire "world" too -- it just
happened to be one river basin was the extent of their reach.  Global
warming does present more disturbing questions about rebuilding
however, since there is no "somewhere else" to rise.

I wonder if any of the dinosaurs were intelligent enough to wonder
what was happening to their world (talking of the climate and plant
changes, before the comet hit and sort of finished it)

On 9/23/05, Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Zeke,
>
> Your  scope  is  a little narrow.  Given global warming we are talking
> about the world not just a country or two.
>
> Happy Happy,
>
> Gustl
>
> Friday, 23 September, 2005, 10:25:52, you wrote:
>
> ZY> I'm sure there were egyptians, greeks, romans, spaniards, britons,
> ZY> russians, etc who saw the collapse of their respective civillizations
> ZY> and empires well before it happened too.  Why should the US fair any
> ZY> better?
>
> ZY> On 9/23/05, Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Hallo,
> >>
> >> You  already know the answer to that question.  As long as it does not
> >> impact  on  either their bottom line or immediate family they will not
> >> believe  unless  the  government requires them to believe.  Science is
> >> for hire a good portion of the time.  You remember that smoking didn't
> >> cause  cancer  until  the  government  had  no  choice  but  to become
> >> involved.   Shoot,  we  still  have  people in this country (USA) that
> >> believe  Iraq  had  WMD,  was  in on the events of 9/11 and was a safe
> >> haven  for  bin  Laden  and  his running mates despite the mountain of
> >> evidence  which  disproves  all of that.  It is a matter of values and
> >> the  ability  to think logically.  Even if we had no definite evidence
> >> of  the  perils  of global warming if we put people before profits and
> >> thought  in  the  "better safe than sorry" mode we would do something.
> >> Unfortunately that is not the case.
> ...snip...
> --
> Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.
> 
> We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.
> 
> The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope,
> soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones,
> without signposts.
> C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"
> 
> Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen,
> daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht
> gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.
> 
> Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
> hear the music.
> George Carlin
> 
> The best portion of a good man's life -
> His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
> William Wordsworth
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Gustl Steiner-Zehender]

Hallo Zeke,

Your  scope  is  a little narrow.  Given global warming we are talking
about the world not just a country or two.

Happy Happy,

Gustl

Friday, 23 September, 2005, 10:25:52, you wrote:

ZY> I'm sure there were egyptians, greeks, romans, spaniards, britons,
ZY> russians, etc who saw the collapse of their respective civillizations
ZY> and empires well before it happened too.  Why should the US fair any
ZY> better?

ZY> On 9/23/05, Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hallo,
>>
>> You  already know the answer to that question.  As long as it does not
>> impact  on  either their bottom line or immediate family they will not
>> believe  unless  the  government requires them to believe.  Science is
>> for hire a good portion of the time.  You remember that smoking didn't
>> cause  cancer  until  the  government  had  no  choice  but  to become
>> involved.   Shoot,  we  still  have  people in this country (USA) that
>> believe  Iraq  had  WMD,  was  in on the events of 9/11 and was a safe
>> haven  for  bin  Laden  and  his running mates despite the mountain of
>> evidence  which  disproves  all of that.  It is a matter of values and
>> the  ability  to think logically.  Even if we had no definite evidence
>> of  the  perils  of global warming if we put people before profits and
>> thought  in  the  "better safe than sorry" mode we would do something.
>> Unfortunately that is not the case.
...snip...
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, 
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] let's change the topic title/ was...

[Appal Energy]

Sometimes "exact" science comes in handy, eh?

Other times yous justs gots to fills in the blanks.

Todd Swearingen


bob allen wrote:

>Howdy Todd,
>
>for every gram of carbon burned you produce 3.67 grams CO2
>and most of the mass of jet fuel is carbon (by weight).
>
>
>
>
>Appal Energy wrote:
>  
>
>>Ray,
>>
>> > so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800
>> > miles but they say they put out 28 tons
>> > of co2 in the same distance?
>>
>>This is a the short version of a long-winded explanation as to why the 
>>weight of carbon dioxide appears to be so disproportionate after burning 
>>jet fuel (or any fuel).
>>
>>Jet fuel is a mixture of long, carbon-chain and carbon-ring molecules, 
>>including paraffinic, olefinic, naphthenic and aromatic hydrocarbons. So 
>>there is no overly simple method of calculating how many carbon 
>>molecules are in liter of fuel (at least not without a sample of it and 
>>a lab).
>>
>>However, just for mind candy, take a look at a biodiesel molecule with 
>>sixteen carbons lined up in a chain. Each has one hydrogen molecule 
>>attached above and below it (two). One end carbon also has a hydrogen 
>>attached to the side of it. The other end carbon has a hydroxyl group 
>>(an oxygen and hydrogen molecule) attached to it. That essentially means 
>>that there are 33 plus 1 hydrogen atoms, 1 oxygen atom and 16 carbon 
>>atoms for every biodiesel molecule that ha 16 carbons in its chain. 
>>
>>
>
>actually it is 2 oxygen atoms per fatty acid methyl ester molecule.
>most used cooking oil I get is at least half palmitic acid glycerides, 
>there for FAME would be that of methyl palmitate
>
>C17H34O2
>
>
>  
>
>>(Some have a few more carbons and some have less, depending upon the 
>>type of fatty acid (oil) they were formed from.)
>>
>>Hydrogen has a molecular weight of one. Oxygen has a molecular weight of 
>>sixteen, which means it's sixteen times heavier than hydrogen. Carbon 
>>has a molecular weight of twelve. For every hydrogen burned off the 
>>biodiesel (or jet fuel) molecule, at least one oxygen molecule 
>>re-attaches. If carbon monoxide is produced, then only one oxygen 
>>attaches. If carbon dioxide is made then two oxygen molecules attach.
>>
>>So, for simplicity's sake, when two hydrogens are burnt off one carbon 
>>(C+H+H=14), one or two oxygens take the hydrogen's place (C+O=28) or 
>>(C+O+O=44). That makes each post combustion molecule with a carbon in it 
>>two or  three times heavier after combustion than before.
>>
>>If a person wanted to get more precise, some fuel isn't completely burnt 
>>in the turbine, meaning that handfuls of hydrogen and carbon molecules 
>>exit the combustion process partially intact. That means that the 
>>hydrogen-oxygen exchange isn't exactly one or two to one
>>
>>But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's 
>>not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going 
>>into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or 
>>three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
>>
>>Todd Swearingen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Specs on the current model Boeing 747-400,   57,000 U.S. gallons fuel 
>>>capacity with 8,000 mile range so it gets something like  6-9 gallons a 
>>>mile. so lets say 8 gallons/mile, at around 8 pounds per gallon,= 65 
>>>pounds of fuel per mile...so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800 
>>>miles  but they say they put out 28 tons of co2 in the same distance?
>>>
>>>thats interesting...
>>>
>>>Ray J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled by a jumbo 
jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris


>
>  
>

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[Biofuel] MODERATOR'S MESSAGE, PLEASE READ - WAS Re: Biofuel Digest, Vol 5, Issue 129

[Keith Addison]

ONCE YET AGAIN...

At the top of the Digest it says: "When replying, please edit your 
Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Biofuel 
digest...""

Nobody will read a message titled "Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Digest, Vol 
5, Issue 129" and it will foul up archives searches forever.

Please give your messages proper titles!

Thankyou.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner

 

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > so the 1s and 0s fuse to become. . .what, imaginary numbers?  well, no
> > wonder then!  if only i could tap into the magical power of my
> > imaginary friends; surely that'd resolve all the technical barriers my
> > perpetual motion machine keeps running into.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > -chris b.
> >
> >
> > mike weaver wrote:
> >
> > >Uh, Keith, hate to step in here but it works by "binary fusion" not
> > "fission."
> > >You're going to give
> > >people the wrong idea.
> > >
> > >Also, where's my link?
> > >
> > >>It works by "'binary fission' with additional vigour, by maximising
> > >>combustion efficiency". Sounds great, think I'll buy some. Dammit,
> > >>where's my wallet?


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[Biofuel] Hugo Ch?vez Speaks

[Keith Addison]

http://www.alternet.org/story/25801/

Hugo Chávez Speaks

By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now!. Posted September 22, 2005.

In his first interview in the United States, the Venezuelan president 
talks about President Bush, Pat Robertson and giving cheap oil to 
America's poor.

Editor's Note: Democracy Now! met with Venezuelan President Hugo 
Chávez for his first interview in the U.S. Amy Goodman interviewed 
him in New York City with co-host Juan Gonzalez and Margaret Prescod 
of Pacifica Radio station KPFK. This is an edited version of the 
transcript.

Scores of world leaders have come to the United States for the United 
Nations summit. Among them, Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. In a 
speech before the world body, Chávez accused the U.S. of trying to 
hijack the U.N. Summit, and described the United States as a 
terrorist nation because it's harboring televangelist Pat Robertson 
who recently called for Chávez's assassination.

President Chávez also accused the United States of being behind the 
reported coup against him in 2002. Chávez condemned the U.S. 
invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and threatened to cut off oil 
sales to the United States.

Amy Goodman: Welcome, Mr. President, to the United States. You have 
come to a country whose government you have accused of trying to 
assassinate you. What evidence do you have of this, and of your other 
charge that it was involved with the attempted coup against you?

President Chávez: Thank you for the invitation to come to this show, 
Juan, Amy and Margaret -- and my greetings to all the people, viewers 
and listeners to these well-known programs. Let's talk about life, 
rather than death, because we are fighting for life. However there 
are always threats -- those who are devoted to the struggle for life, 
and use the truth as a flag and principles as a lifeline.

Tens of thousands of Chávez supporters, opposed to an attempted 
recall in 2004, march in Caracas.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the U.S. government, led by Mr. 
Bush, planned and participated in a coup d'etat in Venezuela in April 
2002. There are many proofs and evidence of this. There is a U.S. 
lady who wrote a book called the Chávez's Code, Mrs. Eva Golinger, 
and she is very close and there are declassified documents that she 
has found thanks to an effort to investigate the situation.

I have many evidences that my assassination was ordered on April the 
12th, and I was ready to die. However, thank God and thanks to the 
Venezuelan people and thanks to the Venezuelan soldiers, this order 
was not accomplished. This order was given by Washington. And there 
are many evidences and witnesses, however I would like to talk about 
life and greet the U.S. people with a lot of affection, with a lot of 
love and with a lot of pain due to the tragedy in New Orleans and the 
gulf states.

We've been accompanying these states from the very beginning, and 
we've been watching TV and receiving reports by our ambassadors and 
the CITGO people from the very beginning, cooperating very humbly 
trying to save lives and assist the homeless. We have offered 
assistance, up to five million dollars, a very modest sum, but I 
guess it would be useful. We have offered medicine, water, and 
electric power plants, the same way Cuba offered doctors. So far we 
have not been authorized to reach the area. However, we hope the best 
for the poor, the poorest of these countries.

Amy Goodman: And televangelist Pat Robertson, his call for your 
assassination. What do you demand now, what is your response to that?

President Chávez: Well as a matter of fact, Robertson is not acting 
alone. He's just conveying, in a perhaps desperate manner, the 
thinking of those people closer to Mr. Bush. This is the voice of the 
most radical -- of the extreme right wing in the U.S., I am totally 
convinced that is the situation with Mr. Robertson. And as you can 
see, so far there has been no reaction by the U.S. government in this 
regard. There's nothing being said about these terrorist remarks that 
is in full breach of international law and breaches the laws of the 
United States.

But it's not only Mr. Robertson here. For some time, for some months, 
people who participated in a coup attempt in Venezuela are living 
here in the United States. And from TV stations in this country these 
people are calling for my assassination. A week ago, in another TV 
show, people in uniform, in fatigues, like terrorists -- Venezuelans 
and Americans and Cubans exiled in the United States. And a former 
agent of the CIA very recently said on TV that Chávez should be dead 
already, that Robertson is right. So this is the desire and the voice 
of the ultraconservative right-wing elite of the United States. They 
threatened Chávez. Chávez is nothing. Who is me? I'm nothing.

They are threatening the world. That is serious. They invaded Iraq 
without any reason whatsoever. They violated international law and 
are ignoring the rules of the U.N.

Re: [Biofuel] Oh man, here comes Rita

[Brian Rodgers]

I do not usually post my morning newsletter here as I have more
respect for this group's individual views and ability to convey their
opinions than my own. This morning I wrote about Rita (I write
something every morning). I include it here because I feel that it is
this group's insight that helped me come to understand and expand my
own thoughts. Maybe you will get some small benefit from it and see
how this group has influenced me and in turn my group. Brian Rodgers

September 23, 2005
Good Morning!
In my life I have spent considerable time by the sea, on islands, or
near the coasts of this continent.  I love the ocean. Since I see fit
to let you all constantly know that we have no television news, I
suppose it comes as no surprise that we have not seen how the media
portrays the effects of the current hurricane season. I, more than
Nell, have a morbid streak and wish I did have some way to see what
the aftermath of a hurricane looks like. I heard on one of my Biofuels
threads that Hurricane Rita has Port Arthur targeted. To someone who
has warned of the devastating effects of global warming (not saying I
did) this seemed like revenge. Today, I have posted several
international articles pertaining to the relationship between rising
ocean surface temperatures  and the ferocity of hurricanes. I did say
I had a dark streak right?

We have several folks from the Biofuels group who have practiced
conscientious and sustainable life styles offering up hope for the
victims of Katrina and sharing everything in a most wholesome fashion.
One husband and wife team, for example, has a little organic farm in
Texas. They often post some of the most positive and hopeful news.
This morning, events on the farm sound harsh and labored. Hurricane
Rita seems bent on destroying the lives of many of the households that
shared everything they had with refuges of Hurricane Katrina. Many of
these kind people wrote of compassion and grace while the news media
apparently showed Americans at their worst. I was moved by the
humanitarian efforts of many people and often felt that there might be
some hope even for me, a self-professed non-humanitarian.

If you don't know what I am referencing when I say non-humanitarian, I
just mean that I never wanted to be a doctor because the site of blood
is enough for me to find a Priest for the ailing victim. Or so I often
sarcastically said in my youth, "Doctor says you gonna die." Sorry it
is some stupid reference to a snake bite joke I heard many years ago.
Point is, I used my repulsion to open wounds to 'look the other way'
when it came to human suffering. I think I said in a previous
newsletter that some people in the Biofuels groups were talking like
maybe it wasn't such a bad thing that we lost a few poor black people
as they heard very bad things about these lower class citizens of New
Orleans. Un-humanitarian as I am, this sentiment makes me absolutely
insane. In fact, the more I heard and read about this attitude,  the
more compassion I had for the suffering people. Well to be fair to
myself,  I need to say that I have always sided with the underdog.
Which, and I am sure that you have heard this a million times from me,
is the reason I don't like sports. I keep switching sides as one team
appears to fall prey to some dastardly tactic of a powerful opponent. 
 Anyway as you can imagine that  I am not a lot of fun to watch a game
with someone who loves his team. Never know whose side I am on at any
given moment!

Why don't I feel bad for the people in the way of the storm then? Do I
feel like they deserved it for not listening to the environmentalists?
Of course not. I want to put this in perspective.  When I hear that
Mother Nature caused a billion dollars in damages, I really could care
less. People on the other hand, especially children, deserve our
compassion no matter the class or intelligence of the parents. Our
government is on record as putting money first, way before the
environment. In doing so, we see and will continue to see the results
of greed on humanitarian aid. I already said I don't care one fiddle
de diddle about how much money was lost by our lack of preparedness to
the effects of global warming. We all already know exactly how the
corporations react to human suffering. The corporations see the bottom
line and NOTHING ELSE. Of course a government run by corporations will
tell you that there is no money in saving people. No rush they say, we
warned them to get out of New Orleans, if they stayed, they will get
what they deserve. With that media message it is no wonder that the
average citizen had an underlying suspicion that the only people left
down there in New Orleans were civilly divergent and generally a
burden on society. Again, we've got no TV, so I have to make some
leaps of reason here.  Please bear with me. Let me see if I can sum
this up in a few sentences.

The U.S. government is ordered by the auto industry and its cronies to
back off on the global warming i

Re: [Biofuel] It's been whispered about in DC

[Keith Addison]

>No one is really talking on the record but the chatter has been 
>around since the pretzel incident.

There was this, very interesting read:

>A theme that has been widely documented in several books by 
>outstanding American scientific authors and other personalities is 
>the current US President's alcoholism which lasted two decades when 
>he was between 20 and 40 years old. This feature has been rigorously 
>and impressively dealt with, from a psychiatric point of view and 
>using scientific criteria, by Dr. Justin A. Frank in a now famous 
>book called "Bush on the Couch"...
>
>Continuing his analysis, Dr. Frank indicates:
>
>"Two questions that the press seems particularly determined to 
>ignore have hung silently in the air since before Bush took office: 
>Is he still drinking? And if not, is he impaired by all the years he 
>did spend drinking? Both questions need to be addressed in any 
>serious assessment of his psychological state".

[more]

From:
http://www.counterpunch.org/castro07302004.html
Fidel Castro: The Pathology of George Bush
Someone Should Give Lil' Caesar a Drink
July 30, 2004

Whether true or not, the fact that chatter has now aquired an alleged 
event, the downing of an actual shot of whiskey, plus an anquished 
quote from Laura, and it's hooked onto Katrina, and it's travelling, 
seems custom-made. A smear that can't be disproved and won't go away.

Also:

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=33&num=5141
Capitol Hill Blue: Bush Taking Anti-Depressants to Control Mood Swings
Jul 28, 2004, 08:09

http://www.infowars.com/print/Bush/bush_delusiona.htm
New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional
Capitol Hill Blue
Jun 17, 2004

Best

Keith


>
>
>IT AIN'T THE MOST REPUTABLE SOURCE, BUT THE SIGNS ARE ALL THERE.
>
>EVEN MORE REASON TO BE SORRY FOR THE COUNTRY.
>
>
>BUSH'S BOOZE CRISIS
>By JENNIFER LUCE and DON GENTILE
>
>
>
>Faced with the biggest crisis of his political life, President Bush has hit
>the
>bottle again, The National Enquirer can reveal.
>
>Bush, who said he quit drinking the morning after his 40th birthday, has
>started boozing amid the Katrina catastrophe.
>
>Family sources have told how the 59-year-old president was caught by First
>Lady
>Laura downing a shot of booze at their family ranch in Crawford, Texas, when
>he
>learned of the hurricane disaster.
>
>His worried wife yelled at him: "Stop, George."
>
>Following the shocking incident, disclosed here for the first time, Laura
>privately warned her husband against "falling off the wagon" and vowed to
>travel with him more often so that she can keep an eye on Dubya, the sources
>add.
>
>"When the levees broke in New Orleans, it apparently made him reach for a
>shot," said one insider. "He poured himself a Texas-sized shot of straight
>whiskey and tossed it back. The First Lady was shocked and shouted: "Stop
>George!"
>
>"Laura gave him an ultimatum before, 'It's Jim Beam or me.' She doesn't want
>to
>replay that nightmare especially now when it's such tough going for her
>husband."
>
>Bush is under the worst pressure of his two terms in office and his
>popularity
>is near an all-time low. The handling of the Katrina crisis and troop losses
>in
>Iraq have fueled public discontent and pushed Bush back to drink.
>
>A Washington source said: "The sad fact is that he has been sneaking drinks
>for
>weeks now. Laura may have only just caught him but the word is his drinking
>has been going on for a while in the capital. He's been in a pressure cooker
>for months.
>
>"The war in Iraq, the loss of American lives, has deeply affected him. He
>takes
>every soldier's life personally. It has left him emotionally drained.
>
>The result is he's taking drinks here and there, likely in private, to cope.
>"And now with the worst domestic crisis in his administration over Katrina,
>you
>pray his drinking doesn't go out of control."
>
>Another source said: "I'm only surprised to hear that he hadn't taken a shot
>sooner. Before Katrina, he was at his wit's end. I've known him for years.
>He's
>been a good ol' Texas boy forever. George had a drinking problem for years
>that
>most professionals would say needed therapy. He doesn't believe in it
>[therapy], he never got it. He drank his way through his youth, through
>college
>and well into his thirties. Everyone's drinking around him."
>
>Another source said: "A family member told me they fear George is 'falling
>apart.' The First Lady has been assigned the job of gatekeeper." Bush's
>history
>of drinking dates back to his youth. Speaking of his time as a young man in
>the
>National Guard, he has said: "One thing I remember, and I'm most proud of,
>is
>my drinking and partying. Those were the days my friends. Those were the
>good
>old days!"
>
>Age 26 in 1972, he reportedly rounded off a night's boozing with his
>16-year-old brother Marvin by challenging his father to a fight.
>
>On

Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Keith Addison]

>Hello all,
>
>
>Just what exactly is it going to take to make sceptics believe that
>global warming is real and a very serious problem?

A kick in the wallet apparently. Followed by repeated kicks in the 
wallet. It appears that in some cases the wallet is the very seat of 
human consciousness.

Thanks for the links

Best

Keith


>< http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2005/09/23/2003272851 >
>
>Ignore science at your peril
>
>
>< http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/092005/09232005/128653 >
>
>Time to stop mainlining petroleum before it kills us
>
>
>
>
>
>next_generation_grid
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid
>
> news  resources  forums
>
>tomorrow-energy
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy
>
>
>
>Alternative Energy Politics
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/
>
>
>Get your daily alternative energy news
>
>Alternate Energy Resource Network
> http://www.alternate-energy.net
> 1000+ news sources - resources
>updated daily
>
>_


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Re: [Biofuel] 2 questions about BD production

[Evergreen Solutions]

Holy Moley, so #1 Diesel is Kerosene. Talk about a breakthrough. Thanks Bob!
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[Biofuel] Sun Twin space heater

[Ken Dunn]

Anyone have any experience with this thing?  Does it work as
described?  My wife is interested in it.

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Re: [Biofuel] Rove to rebuild New Orleans

[Frantz DESPREZ]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :

>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:
>"So according to the New York Times, Carl Rove is in charge of
>rebuilding New Orleans??(...)
>
no, the French will ...

>> /President Bush and a giddy Jacques Chirac shake hands on the deal./
>>
>> BATON ROUGE, LA. - The White House announced today that President 
>> Bush has successfully sold the state of Louisiana back to the French 
>> at more than double its original selling price of $11,250,000.
>>
>> "This is a bold step forward for America," said Bush. "And America 
>> will be stronger and better as a result. I stand here today in unity 
>> with French Prime Minister Jack Shiraq, who was so kind to accept my 
>> offer of Louisiana in exchange for 25 million dollars cash."
>>
>> The state, ravaged by Hurricane Katrina, will cost hundreds of 
>> billions of dollars to rebuild.
>>
>> "Jack understands full well that this one's a 'fixer upper,'" said 
>> Bush. "He and the French people are quite prepared to pump out all 
>> that water, and make Louisiana a decent place to live again. And 
>> they've got a lot of work to do. But Jack's assured me, if it's not 
>> right, they're going to fix it."
>>
>> The move has been met with incredulity from the already beleaguered 
>> residents of Louisiana.
>>
>> However, President Bush's decision has been widely lauded by Republicans.
>>
>> "This is an unexpected but brilliant move by the President," said 
>> Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. "Instead of spending billions and 
>> billions, and billions of dollars rebuilding the state of Louisiana, 
>> we've just made 25 million dollars in pure profit."
>>
>> "This is indeed a smart move," commented Fox News analyst Brit Hume. 
>> "Not only have we stopped the flooding in our own budget, we've made 
>> money on the deal. Plus, when the/ god-awful French/ are done fixing 
>> it up, we can easily invade and take it back again."
>>
>> The money gained from 'The Louisiana Refund' is expected to be 
>> immediately pumped back into the rebuilding of Iraq.
>>
joke :-D

FD

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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Mike Weaver]

Now that'll be a mess to clean up.  Should've bought my keyboard cover 
when you had the chance...

Fred Finch wrote:

> I think my head just exploded...
>
> On 9/23/05, *Appal Energy* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Ray,
>
> > so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800
> > miles but they say they put out 28 tons
> > of co2 in the same distance?
>
> This is a the short version of a long-winded explanation as to why
> the
> weight of carbon dioxide appears to be so disproportionate after
> burning
> jet fuel (or any fuel).
>
> Jet fuel is a mixture of long, carbon-chain and carbon-ring molecules,
> including paraffinic, olefinic, naphthenic and aromatic
> hydrocarbons. So
> there is no overly simple method of calculating how many carbon
> molecules are in liter of fuel (at least not without a sample of
> it and
> a lab).
>
> However, just for mind candy, take a look at a biodiesel molecule
> with
> sixteen carbons lined up in a chain. Each has one hydrogen molecule
> attached above and below it (two). One end carbon also has a hydrogen
> attached to the side of it. The other end carbon has a hydroxyl group
> (an oxygen and hydrogen molecule) attached to it. That essentially
> means
> that there are 33 plus 1 hydrogen atoms, 1 oxygen atom and 16 carbon
> atoms for every biodiesel molecule that ha 16 carbons in its chain.
> (Some have a few more carbons and some have less, depending upon the
> type of fatty acid (oil) they were formed from.)
>
> Hydrogen has a molecular weight of one. Oxygen has a molecular
> weight of
> sixteen, which means it's sixteen times heavier than hydrogen. Carbon
> has a molecular weight of twelve. For every hydrogen burned off the
> biodiesel (or jet fuel) molecule, at least one oxygen molecule
> re-attaches. If carbon monoxide is produced, then only one oxygen
> attaches. If carbon dioxide is made then two oxygen molecules attach.
>
> So, for simplicity's sake, when two hydrogens are burnt off one
> carbon
> (C+H+H=14), one or two oxygens take the hydrogen's place (C+O=28) or
> (C+O+O=44). That makes each post combustion molecule with a carbon
> in it
> two or  three times heavier after combustion than before.
>
> If a person wanted to get more precise, some fuel isn't completely
> burnt
> in the turbine, meaning that handfuls of hydrogen and carbon molecules
> exit the combustion process partially intact. That means that the
> hydrogen-oxygen exchange isn't exactly one or two to one
>
> But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of
> combustion, it's
> not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel
> going
> into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or
> three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> >Specs on the current model Boeing 747-400,   57,000 U.S. gallons fuel
> >capacity with 8,000 mile range so it gets something like  6-9
> gallons a
> >mile. so lets say 8 gallons/mile, at around 8 pounds per gallon,= 65
> >pounds of fuel per mile...so it uses around 26 tons of fuel
> in 800
> >miles  but they say they put out 28 tons of co2 in the same
> distance?
> >
> >thats interesting...
> >
> >Ray J
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled
> by a jumbo
> >>jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >___
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> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
> 
> >
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> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
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> (50,000 messages):
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ___
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> 
> 
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Fred Finch]

I thought it only worked with coffee?On 9/23/05, Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Now that'll be a mess to clean up.  Should've bought my keyboard coverwhen you had the chance...Fred Finch wrote:> I think my head just exploded...>> On 9/23/05, *Appal Energy* <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:>> Ray,>> > so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800> > miles but they say they put out 28 tons
> > of co2 in the same distance?>> This is a the short version of a long-winded explanation as to why> the> weight of carbon dioxide appears to be so disproportionate after
> burning> jet fuel (or any fuel).>> Jet fuel is a mixture of long, carbon-chain and carbon-ring molecules,> including paraffinic, olefinic, naphthenic and aromatic> hydrocarbons. So
> there is no overly simple method of calculating how many carbon> molecules are in liter of fuel (at least not without a sample of> it and> a lab).>> However, just for mind candy, take a look at a biodiesel molecule
> with> sixteen carbons lined up in a chain. Each has one hydrogen molecule> attached above and below it (two). One end carbon also has a hydrogen> attached to the side of it. The other end carbon has a hydroxyl group
> (an oxygen and hydrogen molecule) attached to it. That essentially> means> that there are 33 plus 1 hydrogen atoms, 1 oxygen atom and 16 carbon> atoms for every biodiesel molecule that ha 16 carbons in its chain.
> (Some have a few more carbons and some have less, depending upon the> type of fatty acid (oil) they were formed from.)>> Hydrogen has a molecular weight of one. Oxygen has a molecular
> weight of> sixteen, which means it's sixteen times heavier than hydrogen. Carbon> has a molecular weight of twelve. For every hydrogen burned off the> biodiesel (or jet fuel) molecule, at least one oxygen molecule
> re-attaches. If carbon monoxide is produced, then only one oxygen> attaches. If carbon dioxide is made then two oxygen molecules attach.>> So, for simplicity's sake, when two hydrogens are burnt off one
> carbon> (C+H+H=14), one or two oxygens take the hydrogen's place (C+O=28) or> (C+O+O=44). That makes each post combustion molecule with a carbon> in it> two or  three times heavier after combustion than before.
>> If a person wanted to get more precise, some fuel isn't completely> burnt> in the turbine, meaning that handfuls of hydrogen and carbon molecules> exit the combustion process partially intact. That means that the
> hydrogen-oxygen exchange isn't exactly one or two to one>> But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of> combustion, it's> not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel
> going> into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or> three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.>> Todd Swearingen>> >Specs on the current model Boeing 747-400,   57,000 
U.S. gallons fuel> >capacity with 8,000 mile range so it gets something like  6-9> gallons a> >mile. so lets say 8 gallons/mile, at around 8 pounds per gallon,= 65> >pounds of fuel per mile...so it uses around 26 tons of fuel
> in 800> >miles  but they say they put out 28 tons of co2 in the same> distance?> >> >thats interesting...> >> >Ray J> >
> >> >> >> >>Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled> by a jumbo> >>jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >___
> >Biofuel mailing list> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> <
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>> >> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives> (50,000 messages):> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >> >> >> >> >> >>> ___> Biofuel mailing list> 
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>> 
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>>>
>>___>Biofuel mailing list>Biofuel@s

[Biofuel] windfall tax on big oil

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll - U.S. drivers cry foul and support 
oil-company tax

http://tinyurl.com/8m6pp


Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll
U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A majority of Americans
are convinced they're being gouged at the gas pump, 
and many support a tax on oil companies' profits to 
fund research into alternative energy sources, according
to a new survey.

Eighty-seven percent of U.S. consumers said oil companies
are gouging them on gas prices, according to the telephone
survey of 1,019 adults in mid-September by Opinion Research
Corp. for the Civil Society Institute, a Newton Centre, 
Mass.-based non-profit advocacy group. 

The Institute, funded by donations and foundation grants,
supports a variety of initiatives, including 40mpg.org,
which aims to make 40 miles per gallon the standard for 
all U.S. cars.

Another 7% said very little price gouging is going
 on, 4% said it's not happening at all, and 3% weren't
 sure. The survey has a margin of error of plus, or minus,
 3 percentage points at a 95% confidence level.

The belief in price gouging was consistent across party 
lines, with 82% of Republicans pointing to "some" or 
"a great deal" of price gouging, 91% of Democrats doing 
so, and 87% of independents.

Many consumers appear ready to gouge right back: 79% of
 those surveyed said they support a tax on oil company's
 profits if the money collected goes to research on 
alternative energy sources.

That sentiment crossed political lines to a large extent,
 with 83% of Democrats, 76% of Republicans and 81% of 
independents supporting such a tax to fuel research on
 alternative energy sources.

But there was less overall support for such a tax to fund
 other initiatives: Just 53% of the respondents support
 a tax on oil company profits to fund a direct rebate to
 U.S. drivers, while 70% support the tax to fund wetlands
 restoration in the Gulf Coast to lessen damage from future
 hurricanes. (The survey offered only those three possible
 purposes for the hypothetical tax revenues.)

Confluence of factors

Consumers' cry of price gouging, and apparent willingness
 to embrace alternative energy sources appears sparked by
 a confluence of factors, said Pam Solo, president and 
founder of the Civil Society Institute, in a telephone 
press conference.

"There are several strains of concern converging for people,"
 she said, including steeply higher gas prices, the U.S.'s 
reliance on foreign oil, and global warming.

"Americans have seen ... too little action from Washington
 on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and the dangers 
of too much reliance on foreign oil," Solo said.

And oil company profits aren't helping consumers feel warm
 and fuzzy, she said. "We all know somebody is getting quite
 wealthy over the dilemmas and troubles we're facing as a 
country," she said. "We should be able to share in those profits
 as a society to have greater control of our destiny as a country."

Meanwhile, 81% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that
 the federal government isn't doing enough about high energy prices
 and U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources.

Broken down across political parties: 74% of Republicans agreed 
the federal government isn't doing enough, as did 90% of Democrats
 and 83% of independents.

Let's go hybrid

When asked whether domestic car makers should follow Toyota's lead
 by including hybrid technology in all new cars going forward, 80% 
of consumers agreed, according to the survey.

Eighty-six percent of Democrats agreed domestic makers should focus
 on hybrid technology, as did 73% of Republicans, and 80% of Independents.

The visible success of hybrid cars may be leading more consumers 
to see alternative technologies as one part of a solution to the
 problem of high gas prices, Solo and her colleagues at the Institute said.

Support for hybrid technology was strongest in the West, with 87%
 of consumers saying car makers should pursue all-hybrid fleets, 
compared with 82% in the Northeast, 79% in the Midwest, and 77% 
in the South.

Some consumers also support the idea of higher fuel-efficiency 
standards for regular cars, with 48% of those surveyed saying 
recent gas price hikes make it "much more important" that the 
federal government take steps to require higher fuel-efficiency
 standards.

Twenty-four percent said gas costs make it "somewhat more 
important" that the government address fuel-efficiency 
standards, but 19% said higher gas prices should have no
 effect on the government's approach to fuel efficiency 
standards, according to the survey.
 

Andrea Coombes is a reporter for MarketWatch in San Francisco. 





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Re: [Biofuel] Big oil windfall tax

[Mike Weaver]

We did that in the 70's

Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote:

>A windfall tax on big oil's excessive profits is a great idea. France is 
>already doing it.
>Imagine the great strides that we could make with implimenting
>alternative energy technologies mainstream if such a tax was a reality.
>Although it will probably be a cold day in hell before Bush and
>Mr. no bid Haliburton Cheney let this happen,
>
>regards
>tallex
>
>
>Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll - U.S. drivers cry foul and support 
>oil-company tax
>
>http://tinyurl.com/8m6pp
>
>
>Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll
>U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax
>
>
>SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A majority of Americans
>are convinced they're being gouged at the gas pump, 
>and many support a tax on oil companies' profits to 
>fund research into alternative energy sources, according
>to a new survey.
>
>Eighty-seven percent of U.S. consumers said oil companies
>are gouging them on gas prices, according to the telephone
>survey of 1,019 adults in mid-September by Opinion Research
>Corp. for the Civil Society Institute, a Newton Centre, 
>Mass.-based non-profit advocacy group. 
>
>The Institute, funded by donations and foundation grants,
>supports a variety of initiatives, including 40mpg.org,
>which aims to make 40 miles per gallon the standard for 
>all U.S. cars.
>
>Another 7% said very little price gouging is going
> on, 4% said it's not happening at all, and 3% weren't
> sure. The survey has a margin of error of plus, or minus,
> 3 percentage points at a 95% confidence level.
>
>The belief in price gouging was consistent across party 
>lines, with 82% of Republicans pointing to "some" or 
>"a great deal" of price gouging, 91% of Democrats doing 
>so, and 87% of independents.
>
>Many consumers appear ready to gouge right back: 79% of
> those surveyed said they support a tax on oil company's
> profits if the money collected goes to research on 
>alternative energy sources.
>
>That sentiment crossed political lines to a large extent,
> with 83% of Democrats, 76% of Republicans and 81% of 
>independents supporting such a tax to fuel research on
> alternative energy sources.
>
>But there was less overall support for such a tax to fund
> other initiatives: Just 53% of the respondents support
> a tax on oil company profits to fund a direct rebate to
> U.S. drivers, while 70% support the tax to fund wetlands
> restoration in the Gulf Coast to lessen damage from future
> hurricanes. (The survey offered only those three possible
> purposes for the hypothetical tax revenues.)
>
>Confluence of factors
>
>Consumers' cry of price gouging, and apparent willingness
> to embrace alternative energy sources appears sparked by
> a confluence of factors, said Pam Solo, president and 
>founder of the Civil Society Institute, in a telephone 
>press conference.
>
>"There are several strains of concern converging for people,"
> she said, including steeply higher gas prices, the U.S.'s 
>reliance on foreign oil, and global warming.
>
>"Americans have seen ... too little action from Washington
> on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and the dangers 
>of too much reliance on foreign oil," Solo said.
>
>And oil company profits aren't helping consumers feel warm
> and fuzzy, she said. "We all know somebody is getting quite
> wealthy over the dilemmas and troubles we're facing as a 
>country," she said. "We should be able to share in those profits
> as a society to have greater control of our destiny as a country."
>
>Meanwhile, 81% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that
> the federal government isn't doing enough about high energy prices
> and U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources.
>
>Broken down across political parties: 74% of Republicans agreed 
>the federal government isn't doing enough, as did 90% of Democrats
> and 83% of independents.
>
>Let's go hybrid
>
>When asked whether domestic car makers should follow Toyota's lead
> by including hybrid technology in all new cars going forward, 80% 
>of consumers agreed, according to the survey.
>
>Eighty-six percent of Democrats agreed domestic makers should focus
> on hybrid technology, as did 73% of Republicans, and 80% of Independents.
>
>The visible success of hybrid cars may be leading more consumers 
>to see alternative technologies as one part of a solution to the
> problem of high gas prices, Solo and her colleagues at the Institute said.
>
>Support for hybrid technology was strongest in the West, with 87%
> of consumers saying car makers should pursue all-hybrid fleets, 
>compared with 82% in the Northeast, 79% in the Midwest, and 77% 
>in the South.
>
>Some consumers also support the idea of higher fuel-efficiency 
>standards for regular cars, with 48% of those surveyed saying 
>recent gas price hikes make it "much more important" that the 
>federal government take steps to require higher fuel-efficiency
> standards.
>
>Twenty-four percent said gas costs make it "somewhat more 
>important"

Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Digest, Vol 5, Issue 129

[Mike Weaver]

It's negative talk like this that keeps people from buying my magnet 
gas-mileage enhancer.  BTW, we only take cash now.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> so the 1s and 0s fuse to become. . .what, imaginary numbers?  well, no 
> wonder then!  if only i could tap into the magical power of my 
> imaginary friends; surely that'd resolve all the technical barriers my 
> perpetual motion machine keeps running into.
>  
> cheers,
>  
> -chris b.
>  
>  
> mike weaver wrote:
>  
> >Uh, Keith, hate to step in here but it works by "binary fusion" not 
> "fission." 
> >You're going to give
> >people the wrong idea.
> >
> >Also, where's my link?
> >
> >>It works by "'binary fission' with additional vigour, by maximising
> >>combustion efficiency". Sounds great, think I'll buy some. Dammit,
> >>where's my wallet?
>
>
>
>___
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>
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>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Digest, Vol 5, Issue 129

[capt3d]

so the 1s and 0s fuse to become. . .what, imaginary numbers?  well, no wonder then!  if only i could tap into the magical power of my imaginary friends; surely that'd resolve all the technical barriers my perpetual motion machine keeps running into. 
 
cheers,
 
-chris b.
 
 
mike weaver wrote:
 
>Uh, Keith, hate to step in here but it works by "binary fusion" not "fission."  >You're going to give>people the wrong idea.>>Also, where's my link?>>>It works by "'binary fission' with additional vigour, by maximising >>combustion efficiency". Sounds great, think I'll buy some. Dammit, >>where's my wallet?
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Re: [Biofuel] Using E10 in the new car

[Zeke Yewdall]

It's called the Echo in the US, and since we have lots of E10 here in
the wintertime, I assume it is designed for that.  It's not on the EPA
list of cars compatible with E85.   I don't have any direct experience
with it though.

On 9/22/05, Patrick Anthony Opaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for the reply, my dillenma is this, my new car is a Toyota but they
> only sell that model (Toyota Vios) in South East Asia which I believe is new
> to Ethanol fuel. My owner's manual doesn't say there that it is E10
> compatible, it only tells me to use a 91RON and up unleaded fuel only.
>
> But upon intensive research, I found out that the Vios engine is the same as
> the Toyota Vitz or to some countries it is called the Toyota Echo. Any Echo
> or Vitz users here who powered their auto's w/ E10 or E85? If yes, what's
> your experience.
>
> Regards,
> Patrick
>
>
>
> On 9/23/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Patrick.
> >
> > I live in Wisconsin and have been using E10 for almost two decades in all
> of my gasoline powered vehicles.
> >
> > I worked at a Ford and Chrysler dealership in the service department
> during the '80's and earliy '90's. Both vehicle manufacturers modified their
> products' fuel systems to accomodate alcohol back in the late '80's.
> >
> > If anything, your new car is more compatible with E10 than your older car.
> It may even be E85 compliant. Check your owners manual.
> >
> > I too have found my vehicles start better on E10 throughout the year. I
> suspect this is due to the characteristic of alcohol to remove water from
> the fuel system. I do not need to add any fuel treatment during the winter
> because the fuel has alcohol in it already.
> >
> > I did try E85 in both my '94 Ford Crown Victoria and my '96 Ford E150 van.
> Both vehicles operated normally with the exception of the amber Check Engine
> light coming on. When I filled up again with E10, the light went out.
> >
> > I had a friend scan the vehicles for emmission codes. Both vehicles
> indicated a lean operating condition, but no other malfunctions. I suspect
> the lean condition was due to the additional oxygen present in alcohol.
> >
> > I hope this helps.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Biofuel mailing list
> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> This is my email for mailing list purposes only. If you want to send a
> personal message to me please send it to anton.opaco AT gmail.com
>
> http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=20532&t=1";>Get
> Firefox!
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>
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>
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> messages):
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>
>
>
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Purchasing a still for ethanol

[Zeke Yewdall]

So, can you just burn 192 proof ethanol in an engine?  I can't see any
fundamental problem, other than a little decrease in burning
temperature from having an additional 4% non-combustible stuff in
there.  But we are already using air that has ~80% non-combustible
nitrogen in it...

On 9/22/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maximum 96% by distillation, 192-proof, then it stops because of
> > > azeotropism. The boiling temperature of 96% ethanol is lower than
> > > that of pure ethanol. 
> >
> >With respect Keith, but if I'm not wrong, the boiling point of 96% is higher
> >than that of pure ethanol. At that percentage the boiling point of the last
> >bit of water is lower than 100° C, being exactly the same as that of 96%.
> >Am I wrong ?
>
> Wrong, according to Mike Nixon, who knows what he's talking about.
> See The Compleat Distiller, Nixon and McKay, Amphora Society, 2001,
> p.37. "Another result of azeotropism is that the boiling temperature
> of the 96% ethanol solution is lower than that of pure ethanol."
>
> >Well, anyway not so important. We just cannot get it higher than 96% without
> >other tricks like tholuene or benzene.
>
> Or lime, or corn grits, or 3A zeolite, or castor oil, or
>
> Keith
>
>
> >BTW, tholuene isn't half as carcinogene as benzene, but I don't know if it
> >works with tholuene.
> >
> >Greetings,
> >Pieter.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > PS: Sorry I got waylaid Manickh, I haven't forgotten you, I'll get
> > > back to what we were discussing as soon as I can. All best meanwhile,
> > > K.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Only up to 170-180 proof which could be used for E85 cars. To get
> > > >100% alcohol try extraction with castor oil of fermented liquor
> > > >followed by simple distillation if castor oil does not dissolve any
> > > >water. Please check this in JTF archives. If this does not work try
> > > >azeotropic distillation of the 170 proof alcohol with  toluene in
> > > >which case simple distillation would suffice to remove the water
> > > >leaving more concentrated alcohol in the still. Take care and first
> > > >check MSDS data whether toluene is carcinogenic.
> > > >Manickh
> > > >
> > > >Bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Where can I buy a still that can produce fuel grade ethanol (190 proof)?
> > > >
> > > >I have read that the charles 803 is a poor still and I have no
> > > >access to anyone knowledgable enough to build a good enough still
> > > >without accurate plans. I could possibly pay someone to build one
> > > >if I knew exactly what to tell them to build.
> > > >
> > > >I have done google and JTF and searched this list but have come up
> > > >with no one that operates a successful fuel still.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks
> > > >Bob
>
>
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[Biofuel] Big oil windfall tax

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

A windfall tax on big oil's excessive profits is a great idea. France is 
already doing it.
Imagine the great strides that we could make with implimenting
alternative energy technologies mainstream if such a tax was a reality.
Although it will probably be a cold day in hell before Bush and
Mr. no bid Haliburton Cheney let this happen,

regards
tallex


Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll - U.S. drivers cry foul and support 
oil-company tax

http://tinyurl.com/8m6pp


Consumers feel gouged on gas: poll
U.S. drivers cry foul and support oil-company tax


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- A majority of Americans
are convinced they're being gouged at the gas pump, 
and many support a tax on oil companies' profits to 
fund research into alternative energy sources, according
to a new survey.

Eighty-seven percent of U.S. consumers said oil companies
are gouging them on gas prices, according to the telephone
survey of 1,019 adults in mid-September by Opinion Research
Corp. for the Civil Society Institute, a Newton Centre, 
Mass.-based non-profit advocacy group. 

The Institute, funded by donations and foundation grants,
supports a variety of initiatives, including 40mpg.org,
which aims to make 40 miles per gallon the standard for 
all U.S. cars.

Another 7% said very little price gouging is going
 on, 4% said it's not happening at all, and 3% weren't
 sure. The survey has a margin of error of plus, or minus,
 3 percentage points at a 95% confidence level.

The belief in price gouging was consistent across party 
lines, with 82% of Republicans pointing to "some" or 
"a great deal" of price gouging, 91% of Democrats doing 
so, and 87% of independents.

Many consumers appear ready to gouge right back: 79% of
 those surveyed said they support a tax on oil company's
 profits if the money collected goes to research on 
alternative energy sources.

That sentiment crossed political lines to a large extent,
 with 83% of Democrats, 76% of Republicans and 81% of 
independents supporting such a tax to fuel research on
 alternative energy sources.

But there was less overall support for such a tax to fund
 other initiatives: Just 53% of the respondents support
 a tax on oil company profits to fund a direct rebate to
 U.S. drivers, while 70% support the tax to fund wetlands
 restoration in the Gulf Coast to lessen damage from future
 hurricanes. (The survey offered only those three possible
 purposes for the hypothetical tax revenues.)

Confluence of factors

Consumers' cry of price gouging, and apparent willingness
 to embrace alternative energy sources appears sparked by
 a confluence of factors, said Pam Solo, president and 
founder of the Civil Society Institute, in a telephone 
press conference.

"There are several strains of concern converging for people,"
 she said, including steeply higher gas prices, the U.S.'s 
reliance on foreign oil, and global warming.

"Americans have seen ... too little action from Washington
 on energy prices, fuel-efficient vehicles and the dangers 
of too much reliance on foreign oil," Solo said.

And oil company profits aren't helping consumers feel warm
 and fuzzy, she said. "We all know somebody is getting quite
 wealthy over the dilemmas and troubles we're facing as a 
country," she said. "We should be able to share in those profits
 as a society to have greater control of our destiny as a country."

Meanwhile, 81% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that
 the federal government isn't doing enough about high energy prices
 and U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern energy sources.

Broken down across political parties: 74% of Republicans agreed 
the federal government isn't doing enough, as did 90% of Democrats
 and 83% of independents.

Let's go hybrid

When asked whether domestic car makers should follow Toyota's lead
 by including hybrid technology in all new cars going forward, 80% 
of consumers agreed, according to the survey.

Eighty-six percent of Democrats agreed domestic makers should focus
 on hybrid technology, as did 73% of Republicans, and 80% of Independents.

The visible success of hybrid cars may be leading more consumers 
to see alternative technologies as one part of a solution to the
 problem of high gas prices, Solo and her colleagues at the Institute said.

Support for hybrid technology was strongest in the West, with 87%
 of consumers saying car makers should pursue all-hybrid fleets, 
compared with 82% in the Northeast, 79% in the Midwest, and 77% 
in the South.

Some consumers also support the idea of higher fuel-efficiency 
standards for regular cars, with 48% of those surveyed saying 
recent gas price hikes make it "much more important" that the 
federal government take steps to require higher fuel-efficiency
 standards.

Twenty-four percent said gas costs make it "somewhat more 
important" that the government address fuel-efficiency 
standards, but 19% said higher gas prices should have no
 effect on the government's approach to fuel efficiency 
standards, ac

Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Zeke Yewdall]

I'm sure there were egyptians, greeks, romans, spaniards, britons,
russians, etc who saw the collapse of their respective civillizations
and empires well before it happened too.  Why should the US fair any
better?

On 9/23/05, Gustl Steiner-Zehender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> You  already know the answer to that question.  As long as it does not
> impact  on  either their bottom line or immediate family they will not
> believe  unless  the  government requires them to believe.  Science is
> for hire a good portion of the time.  You remember that smoking didn't
> cause  cancer  until  the  government  had  no  choice  but  to become
> involved.   Shoot,  we  still  have  people in this country (USA) that
> believe  Iraq  had  WMD,  was  in on the events of 9/11 and was a safe
> haven  for  bin  Laden  and  his running mates despite the mountain of
> evidence  which  disproves  all of that.  It is a matter of values and
> the  ability  to think logically.  Even if we had no definite evidence
> of  the  perils  of global warming if we put people before profits and
> thought  in  the  "better safe than sorry" mode we would do something.
> Unfortunately that is not the case.
>
> Happy Happy,
>
> Gustl
>
> Friday, 23 September, 2005, 07:50:18, you wrote:
>
> AE> Hello all,
>
> AE> Just  what  exactly  is  it going to take to make sceptics believe
> AE> that global warming is real and a very serious problem?
> --
> Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.
> 
> We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.
> 
> The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope,
> soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones,
> without signposts.
> C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"
> 
> Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen,
> daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht
> gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.
> 
> Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
> hear the music.
> George Carlin
> 
> The best portion of a good man's life -
> His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
> William Wordsworth
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>

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Re: [Biofuel] let's change the topic title/ was...

[bob allen]

Howdy Todd,

for every gram of carbon burned you produce 3.67 grams CO2
and most of the mass of jet fuel is carbon (by weight).




Appal Energy wrote:
> Ray,
> 
>  > so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800
>  > miles but they say they put out 28 tons
>  > of co2 in the same distance?
> 
> This is a the short version of a long-winded explanation as to why the 
> weight of carbon dioxide appears to be so disproportionate after burning 
> jet fuel (or any fuel).
> 
> Jet fuel is a mixture of long, carbon-chain and carbon-ring molecules, 
> including paraffinic, olefinic, naphthenic and aromatic hydrocarbons. So 
> there is no overly simple method of calculating how many carbon 
> molecules are in liter of fuel (at least not without a sample of it and 
> a lab).
> 
> However, just for mind candy, take a look at a biodiesel molecule with 
> sixteen carbons lined up in a chain. Each has one hydrogen molecule 
> attached above and below it (two). One end carbon also has a hydrogen 
> attached to the side of it. The other end carbon has a hydroxyl group 
> (an oxygen and hydrogen molecule) attached to it. That essentially means 
> that there are 33 plus 1 hydrogen atoms, 1 oxygen atom and 16 carbon 
> atoms for every biodiesel molecule that ha 16 carbons in its chain. 

actually it is 2 oxygen atoms per fatty acid methyl ester molecule.
most used cooking oil I get is at least half palmitic acid glycerides, 
there for FAME would be that of methyl palmitate

C17H34O2


> (Some have a few more carbons and some have less, depending upon the 
> type of fatty acid (oil) they were formed from.)
> 
> Hydrogen has a molecular weight of one. Oxygen has a molecular weight of 
> sixteen, which means it's sixteen times heavier than hydrogen. Carbon 
> has a molecular weight of twelve. For every hydrogen burned off the 
> biodiesel (or jet fuel) molecule, at least one oxygen molecule 
> re-attaches. If carbon monoxide is produced, then only one oxygen 
> attaches. If carbon dioxide is made then two oxygen molecules attach.
> 
> So, for simplicity's sake, when two hydrogens are burnt off one carbon 
> (C+H+H=14), one or two oxygens take the hydrogen's place (C+O=28) or 
> (C+O+O=44). That makes each post combustion molecule with a carbon in it 
> two or  three times heavier after combustion than before.
> 
> If a person wanted to get more precise, some fuel isn't completely burnt 
> in the turbine, meaning that handfuls of hydrogen and carbon molecules 
> exit the combustion process partially intact. That means that the 
> hydrogen-oxygen exchange isn't exactly one or two to one
> 
> But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's 
> not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going 
> into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or 
> three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
> 
> Todd Swearingen
> 
> 
>>Specs on the current model Boeing 747-400,   57,000 U.S. gallons fuel 
>>capacity with 8,000 mile range so it gets something like  6-9 gallons a 
>>mile. so lets say 8 gallons/mile, at around 8 pounds per gallon,= 65 
>>pounds of fuel per mile...so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800 
>>miles  but they say they put out 28 tons of co2 in the same distance?
>>
>>thats interesting...
>>
>>Ray J
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>>Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled by a jumbo 
>>>jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris

-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Zeke Yewdall]

For heavy fuels of indeterminate chemical composition, I usually use
2.5 to 3 for a rule of thumb for lbs of CO2 produced for each lb of
fuel consumed.  I was actually suprised that this example was about
the same weight of CO2 as fuel.


> > But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's
> > not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going
> > into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or
> > three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.
> >
> > Todd Swearingen

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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Fred Finch]

I think my head just exploded...On 9/23/05, Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray, > so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800 > miles but they say they put out 28 tons > of co2 in the same distance?This is a the short version of a long-winded explanation as to why the
weight of carbon dioxide appears to be so disproportionate after burningjet fuel (or any fuel).Jet fuel is a mixture of long, carbon-chain and carbon-ring molecules,including paraffinic, olefinic, naphthenic and aromatic hydrocarbons. So
there is no overly simple method of calculating how many carbonmolecules are in liter of fuel (at least not without a sample of it anda lab).However, just for mind candy, take a look at a biodiesel molecule with
sixteen carbons lined up in a chain. Each has one hydrogen moleculeattached above and below it (two). One end carbon also has a hydrogenattached to the side of it. The other end carbon has a hydroxyl group
(an oxygen and hydrogen molecule) attached to it. That essentially meansthat there are 33 plus 1 hydrogen atoms, 1 oxygen atom and 16 carbonatoms for every biodiesel molecule that ha 16 carbons in its chain.(Some have a few more carbons and some have less, depending upon the
type of fatty acid (oil) they were formed from.)Hydrogen has a molecular weight of one. Oxygen has a molecular weight ofsixteen, which means it's sixteen times heavier than hydrogen. Carbonhas a molecular weight of twelve. For every hydrogen burned off the
biodiesel (or jet fuel) molecule, at least one oxygen moleculere-attaches. If carbon monoxide is produced, then only one oxygenattaches. If carbon dioxide is made then two oxygen molecules attach.So, for simplicity's sake, when two hydrogens are burnt off one carbon
(C+H+H=14), one or two oxygens take the hydrogen's place (C+O=28) or(C+O+O=44). That makes each post combustion molecule with a carbon in ittwo or  three times heavier after combustion than before.If a person wanted to get more precise, some fuel isn't completely burnt
in the turbine, meaning that handfuls of hydrogen and carbon moleculesexit the combustion process partially intact. That means that thehydrogen-oxygen exchange isn't exactly one or two to oneBut very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's
not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel goinginto a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two orthree plus pounds of CO2 coming out.Todd Swearingen>Specs on the current model Boeing 747-400,   57,000 
U.S. gallons fuel>capacity with 8,000 mile range so it gets something like  6-9 gallons a>mile. so lets say 8 gallons/mile, at around 8 pounds per gallon,= 65>pounds of fuel per mile...so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800
>miles  but they say they put out 28 tons of co2 in the same distance?>>thats interesting...>>Ray J>>Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled by a jumbo
>>jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris>>>___>Biofuel mailing list
>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proof of globalwarming

[Appal Energy]

Ray,

 > so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800
 > miles but they say they put out 28 tons
 > of co2 in the same distance?

This is a the short version of a long-winded explanation as to why the 
weight of carbon dioxide appears to be so disproportionate after burning 
jet fuel (or any fuel).

Jet fuel is a mixture of long, carbon-chain and carbon-ring molecules, 
including paraffinic, olefinic, naphthenic and aromatic hydrocarbons. So 
there is no overly simple method of calculating how many carbon 
molecules are in liter of fuel (at least not without a sample of it and 
a lab).

However, just for mind candy, take a look at a biodiesel molecule with 
sixteen carbons lined up in a chain. Each has one hydrogen molecule 
attached above and below it (two). One end carbon also has a hydrogen 
attached to the side of it. The other end carbon has a hydroxyl group 
(an oxygen and hydrogen molecule) attached to it. That essentially means 
that there are 33 plus 1 hydrogen atoms, 1 oxygen atom and 16 carbon 
atoms for every biodiesel molecule that ha 16 carbons in its chain. 
(Some have a few more carbons and some have less, depending upon the 
type of fatty acid (oil) they were formed from.)

Hydrogen has a molecular weight of one. Oxygen has a molecular weight of 
sixteen, which means it's sixteen times heavier than hydrogen. Carbon 
has a molecular weight of twelve. For every hydrogen burned off the 
biodiesel (or jet fuel) molecule, at least one oxygen molecule 
re-attaches. If carbon monoxide is produced, then only one oxygen 
attaches. If carbon dioxide is made then two oxygen molecules attach.

So, for simplicity's sake, when two hydrogens are burnt off one carbon 
(C+H+H=14), one or two oxygens take the hydrogen's place (C+O=28) or 
(C+O+O=44). That makes each post combustion molecule with a carbon in it 
two or  three times heavier after combustion than before.

If a person wanted to get more precise, some fuel isn't completely burnt 
in the turbine, meaning that handfuls of hydrogen and carbon molecules 
exit the combustion process partially intact. That means that the 
hydrogen-oxygen exchange isn't exactly one or two to one

But very roughly put and depending on the efficiency of combustion, it's 
not too difficult to see that one pound of a specific type of fuel going 
into a turbine or engine (a long carbon chain) can turn into two or 
three plus pounds of CO2 coming out.

Todd Swearingen

>Specs on the current model Boeing 747-400,   57,000 U.S. gallons fuel 
>capacity with 8,000 mile range so it gets something like  6-9 gallons a 
>mile. so lets say 8 gallons/mile, at around 8 pounds per gallon,= 65 
>pounds of fuel per mile...so it uses around 26 tons of fuel in 800 
>miles  but they say they put out 28 tons of co2 in the same distance?
>
>thats interesting...
>
>Ray J
>
>
>  
>
>>Just seen this on our BBC TV channel " every 800 miles travelled by a jumbo 
>>jet dumps 28 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere."  Chris
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Gustl Steiner-Zehender]

Hallo,

You  already know the answer to that question.  As long as it does not
impact  on  either their bottom line or immediate family they will not
believe  unless  the  government requires them to believe.  Science is
for hire a good portion of the time.  You remember that smoking didn't
cause  cancer  until  the  government  had  no  choice  but  to become
involved.   Shoot,  we  still  have  people in this country (USA) that
believe  Iraq  had  WMD,  was  in on the events of 9/11 and was a safe
haven  for  bin  Laden  and  his running mates despite the mountain of
evidence  which  disproves  all of that.  It is a matter of values and
the  ability  to think logically.  Even if we had no definite evidence
of  the  perils  of global warming if we put people before profits and
thought  in  the  "better safe than sorry" mode we would do something.
Unfortunately that is not the case.

Happy Happy,

Gustl

Friday, 23 September, 2005, 07:50:18, you wrote:

AE> Hello all,

AE> Just  what  exactly  is  it going to take to make sceptics believe
AE> that global warming is real and a very serious problem?
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, 
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] 2 questions about BD production

[bob allen]

A comment on diesel #1 and #2.  Both are a mixture of hydrocarbons, but #1 has 
a lower molecular wt 
range (C9 to C16), and that range is narrower.  It a higher vapor pressure, 
lower boiling 
range(300-550 degrees F) and lower gel point as noted below.  #2 (C9-C20) has a 
broader molecular wt 
range, lower vapor pressure, higher boiling range (325-675 degrees F) and 
higher gel point. The 
terms #1 diesel and kerosene are used interchangeably. Other synonyms for the 
same fuel are Jet-A 
Turbine Fuel, Jet-Q Turbine Fuel, JP-5, JP-8.


http://www.brownoil.com/msdsdiesel.htm

http://www.brownoil.com/msdskerosene.htm


Chris & Chuck McGuire wrote:
>>As for #1 diesel, I have seen it at truck refueling places, where you
>>can sometimes get #1, #2, or a 50/50 blend of them, but never at the
>>local gas station.  And even the #2 diesel at truck stops seems to run
>>better than the diesel from in town gas stations.  I suspect that
>>these places don't sell enough diesel to people who care to bother
>>getting high quality stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Around here, we see number one or a blend come October.  The pour point 
> of number one is substantially lower than number two, and when it's -40 
> out, fuel gelling can get to be a big problem, very fast.
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman

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[Biofuel] Ignore science at your peril

[Alt.EnergyNetwork]

Hello all,


Just what exactly is it going to take to make sceptics believe that
global warming is real and a very serious problem?


< http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2005/09/23/2003272851 >

Ignore science at your peril


< http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/092005/09232005/128653 >

Time to stop mainlining petroleum before it kills us





next_generation_grid
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid

 news  resources  forums

tomorrow-energy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy



Alternative Energy Politics
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/


Get your daily alternative energy news

Alternate Energy Resource Network
 http://www.alternate-energy.net
 1000+ news sources - resources 
updated daily

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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[Mike Weaver]

Do you have a link to the phamplet?

Chris Tan wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> It’s not that the government is not strict about standards. The 
> government doesn’t have a standard in the first place. The government 
> with all its manpower (which we pay for with our taxes) cannot or 
> would not make a standard of its own. Take biodiesel for example, I 
> tried contacting DoE about our government’s standard but have not 
> receive any concrete answer. And yet Senbel other two big chemical 
> companies are already marketing their expensive biodiesel additive. 
> They are dictated by big business or by the highest bidder. A pamphlet 
> posted on DoE’s website says that biodiesel cannot be made by 
> cooperatives or such. Guess who they got the pamphlet from? From who 
> else but Senbel.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Patrick 
> Anthony Opaco
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:25 PM
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila
>
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for the replies... The reason why I'm a little bit hesitant is 
> well mainly because the info drive here in Manila is not that good and 
> second some unscrupulous business men before are selling unleaded gas 
> (prior to E10) that has water in it. That's a real bummer but now they 
> are at the hands of the law.
>
> Probably I'll continue using E10 at my old car and will just fill my 
> new car if the masses here would start patronizing E10, coz most of 
> the time the gas station that I bought E10 doesn't have that much 
> customers compared to the gas stations of Shell, Caltex (Chevron 
> Texaco in the US) and Petron (a local venture that has a saudi 
> partner). It's good to know that a lot of people around the world are 
> using E10/E85, it's just that the standards here in the Philippines 
> are not that strict. Like for example when you manufacture Ethanol, 
> you guys there in the commercial level applies strict standards to 
> ensure that the product you're selling is really good right? Here in 
> the Philippines doesn't go that way. The issue I think here is more of 
> the consumers confidence towards Ethanol because as I've said the 
> standards here are not that super strict compared to for example the US.
>
> To Ramon - E10 is 10% Ethanol blend and 90% unleaded gasoline. I don't 
> do the mixing, I buy it from one of the minor oil players here. The 
> major players (Shell, Caltex and Petron) don't carry yet Ethanol in 
> their products.
>
> By the way guys, how about the computer that is controlling the fuel 
> system or whatever you call that... fuel intake of your car? That 
> won't be messed up right if filling up E10?
>
> So to sum it all, E10 is just your ordinary unleaded fuel provided 
> that strict measures/standards are enforced in manufacturing the said 
> fuel?
>
> Regards,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming

[Keith Addison]

>IMHO, the difference in the pictures are a good evidence of cause of 
>the warming.  But also, I don't think that a natural cycle would 
>account for this.  Even over 100 years.  Good old Mother Earth takes 
>thousands of years to go through these cycles and this one is 
>happening a little too fast.
>
>Again, my 2cents.
>
>John

The insurance industry needs no convincing.

http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 
5-September/004569.html
Or:
http://snipurl.com/hw1g
[Biofuel] New Report Warns of Rising Threat to U.S. Insurers due to 
Climate Change

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30888.html
[biofuel] Re-insurer counts cost of global warming

"An estimated 12,000 weather-related disasters since 1980 have caused 
618,200 fatalities and resulted in economic losses of $1.3 trillion. 
In the 1980s, the average annual economic loss from weather-related 
disasters was $26 billion. In 2004, that number rose to $104 billion, 
and in 2005, Hurricane Katrina alone is expected to cost $100-200 
billion in economic losses." (Worldwatch)

Best

Keith


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry Eyers
>Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:00 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming
>
>Hmm... I can't reach them today either.  Just go to any nasa sight, 
>and search for apollo pictures of the earth, then search for space 
>shuttle pictures of the earth.
>
>
>Jerry
>
>---Original Message---
>
>From: des
>Date: 09/22/05 10:51:36
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming
>
>I'm still trying to get to the sites listed in this post.  is everyone
>else able to get to them?  Just trying to go to 
>http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/
>times out.
>
>doug swanson
>
>
>
>Jerry Eyers wrote:
> >  > What did the photos show?
> >
> > In the late 1960's, it was a beautiful blue sphere,
> > clear atmoshpere, very nice.
> >
> > Now, there is a smokey white smudge over everything.
> > There is no nice, clean, blue ball anymore, just
> > a smokey, murkey haze all the time.
> >
> > Compare this picture (apollo 7 docking with satellite):
> > 
>lections=AS7&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=20&pageno=1&photoId=AS07-03-153 
>1>http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=true&s 
>elections=AS7&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=20&pageno=1&photoId=AS07-03-15 
>31
> > 
><elections=AS7&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=20&pageno=1&photoId=AS07-03-15 
>31>http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=true&; 
>selections=AS7&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=20&pageno=1&photoId=AS07-03-1 
>531>
> >
> > With this picture (space shuttle docking with satellite):
> > 
>lections=STS77&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=10&pageno=3&photoId=s77e5069> 
>http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=true&sel 
>ections=STS77&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=10&pageno=3&photoId=s77e5069
> > 
><elections=STS77&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=10&pageno=3&photoId=s77e5069 
> >http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=true&se 
>lections=STS77&browsepage=Go&hitsperpage=10&pageno=3&photoId=s77e5069>
> >
> > And look at the earth in the background.
> >
> > Jerry


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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

[Chris Tan]

Hi Patrick,

 

It’s not that the government is not
strict about standards. The government doesn’t have a standard in the
first place. The government with all its manpower (which we pay for with our
taxes) cannot or would not make a standard of its own. Take biodiesel
for example, I tried contacting DoE about our
government’s standard but have not receive any concrete answer. And yet Senbel other two big chemical companies are already
marketing their expensive biodiesel additive. They are
dictated by big business or by the highest bidder. A pamphlet posted on DoE’s website says that biodiesel
cannot be made by cooperatives or such. Guess who they got the pamphlet from? From who else but Senbel. 

 

Regards,

Chris

 

 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Anthony Opaco
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005
1:25 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience
here in Manila

 



Hi All,





 





Thanks for the replies... The reason why I'm a little
bit hesitant is well mainly because the info drive here in Manila is not that
good and second some unscrupulous business men before are selling unleaded gas
(prior to E10) that has water in it. That's a real bummer but now they are at
the hands of the law. 





 





Probably I'll continue using E10 at my old car and
will just fill my new car if the masses here would start patronizing E10, coz
most of the time the gas station that I bought E10 doesn't have that much
customers compared to the gas stations of Shell, Caltex (Chevron Texaco in the
US) and Petron (a local venture that has a saudi partner). It's good to know
that a lot of people around the world are using E10/E85, it's just that the
standards here in the Philippines are not that strict. Like for example when
you manufacture Ethanol, you guys there in the commercial level applies strict
standards to ensure that the product you're selling is really good right? Here
in the Philippines doesn't go that way. The issue I think here is more of
the consumers confidence towards Ethanol because as I've said the standards
here are not that super strict compared to for example the US. 





 





To Ramon - E10 is 10% Ethanol blend and 90% unleaded
gasoline. I don't do the mixing, I buy it from one of the minor oil players
here. The major players (Shell, Caltex and Petron) don't carry yet Ethanol in
their products. 





 





By the way guys, how about the computer that is
controlling the fuel system or whatever you call that... fuel intake
of your car? That won't be messed up right if filling up E10?





 





So to sum it all, E10 is just your ordinary unleaded
fuel provided that strict measures/standards are enforced in manufacturing the
said fuel?





 





Regards,





Patrick








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Re: [Biofuel] Scales for LYE

[Greg Ocnos]

And old test is a US nickel(5 cent piece). A new nickel weighs 5 grams. The
newer the nickel the more accurate. 

Greg O.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 3:59 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Scales for LYE


Would it be okay to use an old set of digital scales from weight watchers to
measure grams of LYE. I'm now sure it would be as accurate as a balance
scale. 


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Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel in the Philippines

[RU 9]

Hi!
 
Yes, the Philippine Coconut Authority office - Zamboanga City have been producing home-brewed coco-diesel for a few years now and have been using them (20%) as additive for their cars.
 
They claim that due to the special catalyst used, their price is the lowest compared to the commercial producers.
 
Louie 
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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone actually distilling their own ethanol?

[Brian Rodgers]

I don't recall if you gave your Geo-political location but this site
for US citizens has lots of information.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/reading_resources/vb4.html
Brian Rodgers
P.S. Note the last tid-bit list below.
Making and Using Your Own Ethanol: Reading and Resource List

The following are sources of information on small-scale ethyl alcohol
(ethanol) production and use for fuel. You may obtain the publications
from your local library or from the source as indicated.
Publications

Alcohol Motor Fuel: Step by Step Procedures for the Modification of a
Car's Engine to Run on Alcohol with Instructions on How to Build an
Ethanol Still, Gordon Press Publishers, 1991. Out of print.

Brown's Second Alcohol Fuel Cookbook, M. Brown, Tab Books, 1981. Out of print.

Convert Your Car to Alcohol Fuel, K. Drane, Marathon International
Book Company, 1980. Out of print.

Fermentation Guide for Common Grains, Solar Energy Research Institute,
1981. 38 pp. Available from National Technical Information Service
(NTIS), Order No. DE84009392.

Forget the Gas Pumps—Make Your Own Fuel, J. Wortham and B. Whiteneck,
Marathon International Book Company, 1979. Out of print.

Fuel from Farms: A Guide to Small-Scale Ethanol Production, 2nd
Edition, Solar Energy Research Institute, 1982. 165 pp. Available from
NTIS, Order No. DE87003459.

How to Make Your Own Alcohol Fuels (2nd Ed.), L. Carrey, Tab Books,
1981. Out of print.

How to Make Your Own Fuel: Instant Ethanol, Revisionist Press, 1991.
Out of print.

How to Modify Your Car to Run on Alcohol Fuel (Guidelines for
Converting Gasoline Engines, with Specific Instructions for Air-Cooled
Volkswagens), R. Lippman, 1982.

The Junkyard Still: Producing Ethanol in Your Backyard, Gordon Press
Publishers, 1991. Out of print.

Large and Small-Scale Ethyl Alcohol Manufacturing Processes from
Agricultural Raw Materials, Noyes Data Corporation, 1980. ISBN:
0815508158. Out of print.

Makin' It On the Farm: Alcohol Fuel is the Road to Independence, M.
Nellis, Buffalo Creek Press.

Making Your Own Motor Fuel with Home and Farm Alcohol Stills, F.
Stetson, Garden Way Publishing, 1980. Out of print.

A Small Scale Ethanol Fuel Plant Package, Solstice Publications. It
contains a Plant Handbook, a Procurement and Installation
Specifications Manual, and Construction Blueprints. The package
includes plans for 6, 20, or 40 gallons per hour (1000, 500 or 150
gals/24 hour; one U.S. gallon equals 3.85 liters) plant capacities
using traditional fermentation and distillation technology to produce
130 to 192 proof ethanol. The plant hardware and equipment that are
specified are industrial quality. Also includes design and fabrication
techniques where do-it-yourself substitutions are appropriate and
safe.

Understanding Ethanol Fuel Production and Use, C. Bradley and K.
Runnion, Volunteers in Technical Assistance (VITA). 19 pp. Available
from VITA.
Permits

To legally produce your own alcohol for fuel in the United States, you
must obtain an Alcohol Fuel Plant Permit from the Federal Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF). If you produce more than 10,000
proof gallons per year (1 gallon of 100 proof alcohol is 1 proof
gallon; 1 gallon of 150 proof alcohol is 1.5 proof gallons) you may be
subject to a producer tax. To obtain an application for a permit,
(there is no fee) contact the ATF.
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Re: [Biofuel] Dear Bob Allen was Re: There's no proofof globalwarming

[Chris lloyd]

> but they say they put out 28 tons of co2 in the same distance? <

Hi Ray J, do you think they should have said 28 tons in 8000 miles, does 
that seem more realistic.   Chris.


Wessex Ferret Club
www.wessexferretclub.co.uk



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[Biofuel] Coverage Of Hurricane Rita

[Kirk McLoren]

Coverage Of Hurricane Rita on the 'net 
http://www.hurricanecity.com/ Live CNN feed link - upper right corner 
http://www.click2houston.com/index.html LIVESTREAM: Watch KPRC's Coverage Of Hurricane Rita Watch KPRC Local 2's live continuous coverage of Hurricane Rita online. (Feed will be black during commercial breaks.)   
		Yahoo! for Good 
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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