Re: [Biofuel] Scientific method- Titration and another outraged reader.

[Tom Scheel]

I love the JtF site. Its very existence (and this mailing list) gives me confidence to go forward with biodiesel. So I totally understand the pride of creation and that the site is excellent. As a teacher I am aware that there is only one moment when you don't "get it" and after you "get it" you can't go back and be in that place of not getting it. What is jargon? Its when "professionals" forget what words are special to their field and which are in the common lexicon. I think teaching is in essence smoothing the way to the "getting it" that moment for a motivated student. 
 
Anyways of all the items Brian brought up, the one that merited attention, in my opinion, was the "w/v". As a pre-newbie in creating biodiesel, I would not have known that term and honestly, would not have gotten it from context. Perhaps because I was taught pounds and gallons for weights and volumes, or perhaps I am not as smart as your average biodieseler (probably would have ignored it - not exactly careful process: ignore what doesn't make sense :->). 
 
Having supported that one admittedly small problem with the JtF site, I am not sure that we need to provide Brian with a new orifice for excrement removal, as he seems to be doing fine with the one he has. [Brian,hopefully you will get to "getting it" and get on with spreading the gospel of sustainable fuel]. 
 
If I may segue, folks on this site were recently talking about how to take sustainability to the next level, in terms of concrete actions. I think of the world in terms of tons of CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) not released into the atmosphere. I make my living designing and installing solar thermal installations to heat water for space heating and domestic use. Making biodiesel is an extension of that by producing less CO2 and (I think a lot of people miss the significance of this) using current CO2, rather than stored from previous eras. 
 
So my idea is to figure out what greenhouse gasses you are avoiding, what you are using from current accounts, and talk it up. Put it in your email signature, talk to friends and family. If you want to escalate, talk about it, in concrete terms (ie we could keep x tons of CO2 out of the atmosphere if we ran the trash hauling trucks on bio-diesel) with someone in your local government. If you are not already maxed out (no non-current greenhouse gases), make a concrete commitment to reduce your gas emissions over the next 12 months. Mine, BTW is to run my business trucks on B-something large (100 in the summers, enough petro-diesel to keep the lines unclogged in winter). I haven't yet figured out what that translates into in terms of CO2 avoided and CO2 from current accounts.
 
Tom
 
___
 
Keith I am exhausted after reading all of this. I think it should be good enough to say go back and read it again.
You have a ton more patience than I do. All the best  : Derick
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike WeaverSent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:24 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Scientific method- Titration and anorther outraged reader.
 
I personally am outraged.  I just spent all weekend printing out and completely reading the JTF website.Though it pains me greatly to say this:  I did find a comma out of place.Keith, I've done the hard work identifying the problem, now I expect you to fix it, instead of lolly-gagging, or was it shilly shallying?No matter.  Enough.  To arms.NB.I am sending a spare comma for your use under separate cover.-Miss GrundyKeith Addison wrote: LOL Brian!!!SNIP 
 
"Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water(0.1% w/v lye solution)."Here, according to JtF, we are in the absolute most important firststep Titration, which a newbie is going to perform!Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150)Tom Scheel928-380-6294___
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Re: [Biofuel] Daihatsu UFE-III 72km/litre

[MH]

 Hi Keith,
 Over the years the K-car (keicar) has been commented
 on the list and I read the plain text posts and yours 
 although I know very little about them then whats
 mentioned here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keicar 

 American US ingenuity in 1980-81 came up with the --

 The California Commuter
 104 kilogram (230 lb.) vehicle. 
  Gasoline Record
The 157.192 MPG at 55 MPH gasoline
record was set on November 20, 1980. 
  Diesel Record
The 156.53 MPG at 56.3 MPH diesel
record was set on November 30, 1981. 
 http://www.canosoarus.com/03CalifCommuter/CalCom01.htm 

 I haven't read about the speeds in which the
 Daihatsu UFE-III operates at to achieve
 its fuel economy but I wouldn't mind
 stuffing some groceries or doing a few errands
 or tooling around in one of these beautiful vehicles
 and its the first I've heard about LED headlights on cars
 although I use them on my bicycle and tricycle. 

 Is it a spark or compression ignited engine ? 

 When do you think the container will be ready ? 
 Do you think you can round me up some
 240 mpg US  VW 1 litre's ? 
 ;o) 

 All kidding aside I don't know if I could
 improve upon these designed fuel economies. 

 I believe one of the local universities
 has some K-trucks, or so they appear,
 for on campus use and they are cool! 


> Hi Hoagy
> 
> It's a K-car, same as the K-trucks I was talking about before.
> 
> http://snipurl.com/iwrh
> [Biofuel] K-trucks in the US - Re: advancement of car technology
> 
> They're cool! (And I'm a tall person...)
> 
> Regards
> 
> Keith


> > 72km/litre, 1.39 L/100km, 169 mpg US, 204 mpg UK & CA --
> >
> > Daihatsu UFE-III : Ultra Fuel Economy
> > http://www.daihatsu.com/motorshow/tokyo05/ufe3/index.html

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Re: [Biofuel] Daihatsu UFE-III 72km/litre

[Graeme Vagg]

Hi Ken,

Here are two good links.  I enjoyed reading about the K cars.  The larger 
engined ones with 600 cc or so have a nominal 60 something hp and a weight 
of around 1800 lb.  The sporty ones are doing up to 106mph so nothing wrong 
with the top speed or economy.  If you want a lot of acceleration it will 
hurt your economy badly and this is where everyone is falling down.  It is 
just not important to be burning rubber anymore.

Alos look at the economy and speed/power needs of the Californian Commuter 
from 1980.  It can cruise 55 mph on 2.5hp.  Double that to 5 with a steam 
engine and you will still do well.  This is the sort of think that may be 
close to the limits of SACA - do a 2006 version of this and the economy 
would be above any regular car on the road - certainly in the 80- to 100mpg 
range if not screwed up.

Regards,

Graeme
- Original Message - 
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Daihatsu UFE-III 72km/litre


> Hi Keith,
> Over the years the K-car (keicar) has been commented
> on the list and I read the plain text posts and yours
> although I know very little about them then whats
> mentioned here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keicar
>
> American US ingenuity in 1980-81 came up with the --
>
> The California Commuter
> 104 kilogram (230 lb.) vehicle.
>  Gasoline Record
>The 157.192 MPG at 55 MPH gasoline
>record was set on November 20, 1980.
>  Diesel Record
>The 156.53 MPG at 56.3 MPH diesel
>record was set on November 30, 1981.
> http://www.canosoarus.com/03CalifCommuter/CalCom01.htm
>
> I haven't read about the speeds in which the
> Daihatsu UFE-III operates at to achieve
> its fuel economy but I wouldn't mind
> stuffing some groceries or doing a few errands
> or tooling around in one of these beautiful vehicles
> and its the first I've heard about LED headlights on cars
> although I use them on my bicycle and tricycle.
>
> Is it a spark or compression ignited engine ?
>
> When do you think the container will be ready ?
> Do you think you can round me up some
> 240 mpg US  VW 1 litre's ?
> ;o)
>
> All kidding aside I don't know if I could
> improve upon these designed fuel economies.
>
> I believe one of the local universities
> has some K-trucks, or so they appear,
> for on campus use and they are cool!
>
>
>> Hi Hoagy
>>
>> It's a K-car, same as the K-trucks I was talking about before.
>>
>> http://snipurl.com/iwrh
>> [Biofuel] K-trucks in the US - Re: advancement of car technology
>>
>> They're cool! (And I'm a tall person...)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Keith
>
>
>> > 72km/litre, 1.39 L/100km, 169 mpg US, 204 mpg UK & CA --
>> >
>> > Daihatsu UFE-III : Ultra Fuel Economy
>> > http://www.daihatsu.com/motorshow/tokyo05/ufe3/index.html
>
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>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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> messages):
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>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/142 - Release Date: 18/10/2005
> 


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Re: [Biofuel] Scientific method- Titration and another outraged reader.

[Mike Weaver]

Or, as someone who maintanes websites, my feeling is - " if you don't
like it, feel free to write something better and I'll post it"

Tom Scheel wrote:

  
  I love the JtF site. Its very existence (and this
mailing list) gives me confidence to go forward with biodiesel. So I
totally understand the pride of creation and that the site is
excellent. As a teacher I am aware that there is only one moment when
you don't "get it" and after you "get it" you can't go back and be in
that place of not getting it. What is jargon? Its when "professionals"
forget what words are special to their field and which are in the
common lexicon. I think teaching is in essence smoothing the way to the
"getting it" that moment for a motivated student. 
   
  Anyways of all the items Brian brought up, the one
that merited attention, in my opinion, was the "w/v". As a pre-newbie
in creating biodiesel, I would not have known that term and honestly,
would not have gotten it from context. Perhaps because I was taught
pounds and gallons for weights and volumes, or perhaps I am not as
smart as your average biodieseler (probably would have ignored it - not
exactly careful process: ignore what doesn't make sense :->). 
   
  Having supported that one admittedly small problem
with the JtF site, I am not sure that we need to provide Brian with a
new orifice for excrement removal, as he seems to be doing fine with
the one he has. [Brian,hopefully you will get to "getting it" and get
on with spreading the gospel of sustainable fuel]. 
   
  If I may segue, folks on this site were recently
talking about how to take sustainability to the next level, in terms of
concrete actions. I think of the world in terms of tons of CO2 (and
other greenhouse gases) not released into the atmosphere. I make my
living designing and installing solar thermal installations to heat
water for space heating and domestic use. Making biodiesel is an
extension of that by producing less CO2 and (I think a lot of people
miss the significance of this) using current CO2, rather than stored
from previous eras. 
   
  So my idea is to figure out what greenhouse gasses you
are avoiding, what you are using from current accounts, and talk it up.
Put it in your email signature, talk to friends and family. If you want
to escalate, talk about it, in concrete terms (ie we could keep x tons
of CO2 out of the atmosphere if we ran the trash hauling trucks on
bio-diesel) with someone in your local government. If you are not
already maxed out (no non-current greenhouse gases), make a concrete
commitment to reduce your gas emissions over the next 12 months. Mine,
BTW is to run my business trucks on B-something large (100 in the
summers, enough petro-diesel to keep the lines unclogged in winter). I
haven't yet figured out what that translates into in terms of CO2
avoided and CO2 from current accounts.
   
  Tom
   
  ___
   
  Keith I am
exhausted after reading all of this. I think it should be good enough
to say go back and read it again.
  You have a ton more patience than I do. All the
best  : Derick
  
   
  
  
  
  From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver
  Sent: Sunday, October
23, 2005 5:24 PM
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
Scientific method- Titration and anorther outraged reader.
  
   
  I personally am outraged.  I
just spent all weekend printing out and completely reading the JTF
website.
  
Though it pains me greatly to say this:  I did find a comma out of
place.
  
Keith, I've done the hard work identifying the problem, now I expect
you to fix it, instead of lolly-gagging, or was it shilly shallying?
No matter.  Enough.  To arms.
  
NB.
  
I am sending a spare comma for your use under separate cover.
  
-Miss Grundy
  
  
  
Keith Addison wrote: 
  LOL Brian!!!
  SNIP
   
 
  
"Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water
(0.1% w/v lye solution)."
Here, according to JtF, we are in the absolute most important first
step Titration, which a newbie is going to perform!
  
  
  
  
Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150)
Tom Scheel
928-380-6294
  

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Re: [Biofuel] A new website

[Zeke Yewdall]

Huh?

On 10/23/05, midori <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
> name=post[1].htm
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-ID: 
>
> PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PHNjcmlwdCB0eXBlPSJ0ZXh0L2phdmFzY3JpcHQiPnRvcC5sb2NhdGlv
> bi5yZXBsYWNlKCJodHRwOi8vd3d3LmhvdG1haWwubXNuLmNvbS9jZ2ktYmluL3Nib3g/dD03
> ZyFWTTlsbVlGN2w3IWdKZk5DeW5BeUpYNnRKZm4hVnF2aTJuOGxwTGJmNWhFVUIhTmI4bmh1
> NkN2SkpBek1uUFdwTGNJOXhIV2loS2Z1YnpidWdyQWpXR2Y0c2VyckJNWmhRVEVXVWR5VDhv
> Nk52Nzd6KlZCN0ZGd2NiVmNBTWJUJnA9N2tMbHchTFZwRjhIKlVWeHNCZkZjZFFycTRNZDc1
> Nm9zeThwMG9JYypkSEZ3VVBacSFZbmY3cjlnb3FOd1QyIXRrUGlRRDZyNnhaVlpkSXR2ejJ1
> VyFkSHVxREtWZzljc2VUcDJ5IUhFSkU2TGlUUEEyUkw4TVJWbkIxNjRLUGhzSXEySlRUMGJR
> eXpBRjl2QUk0M2Fva3dwNmhSMFpxTVZzIUMwTXpVdlI3eDAhR0JPSiFncFFOaEtjKmQ1SXNL
> R1RWek8hNklqTmJCNkEzcktyQWV5ITZnJCQmbGM9MTAzMyZpZD0yIik7ZnVuY3Rpb24gT25C
> YWNrKCl7fTwvc2NyaXB0PjwvaGVhZD48L2h0bWw+
>
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[Biofuel] Processing in cold weaather

[Rob Rogers]

Will the cold weather affect BD processing? I do my processing in a barn,
but it is not heated.


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Re: [Biofuel] Processing in cold weaather

[Appal Energy]

 > Will the cold weather affect BD processing?

Big Time. If everything is insulated (in a perfect world) it wouldn't. 
But seldom is everything.

Even at moderate temps fats and hydrogenated oils sometimes gel in pumps 
and pipes, giving need for flushing between batches with either 
biodiesel or the "cream" of the WVO from the top of a settling tank.

Washing in a cold environment can be frustrating to put it mildly.

Todd Swearingen

>Will the cold weather affect BD processing? I do my processing in a barn,
>but it is not heated.
>
>
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>
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH

[Joe Street]

I think so also.  The biodiesel process is not a thing to be undertaken 
in a casual way.  I don't think the JtoF site should be written as an 
"Idiot's guide to homemade fuel" , And I am not insinuating that anyone 
who struggles with it is an idiot either.  It is not a trivial thing.  
The JtoF site rocks!

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I for one am grateful for all of the information JTF is providing us FREE OF
>CHARGE. It is so easy to be critical and it takes a little effort and
>perhaps you might have to massage a few brain cells in order to appreciate
>everything JTF is giving us here.
>I don't have any problems following the instruction.
>Thanks Kieth for a wonderful web site...
>Rob
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers
>Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:07 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Purity of KOH
>
>Hi everyone
>My wife and I worked on titration until pretty late last night,
>  
>


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[Biofuel] Oil Pre Heater

[john owens]

Hi,
 
 
What BTU rating would be best for heating 150 liters of oil? I'm using a small gas heater at the moment it is very slow. I want to use a kerosene heater run on bio diesel. any suggestions for one?
 
Thankin you, 
John
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Scientific method- Easy Keith!

[Joe Street]

Whoa Big Feller

Keith please don't forget Brian is an American, therefore he was born
and raised to believe he is somehow special, and spoiled enough to
expect everything to be paint by numbers.  American 'culture' is all
about instant gratification, less work vs more
satisfaction/entertainment.  This explains the typical american
arrogance that drips from his rhetoric and which irritates you so
well.  I have no doubt that Brian is genuinely frustrated by his
apparent lack of progress in this early stage but it is not really HIS
fault, he has been conditioned with a set of expectations which do not
fit the real world.  This is why our insidious Disneyland 'culture'
here in the Americas (well at least Canada and US) works so well
because it has had the illusion of being sustainable for so long.  I
see this kind of attitude all the time with university students.  Even
graduate students who are getting on in years; they like someone to
lead them by the hand. We are a spoon fed continent.  We like to have
everything easy.  Easy information, easy entertainment, easily
achievable goals, easy to throw away (insert everything you don't
like), and yes even easy sex (we have a pill to help that).  Well, it
aint always easy. Except for the sex part (speaking personally that
is).   ;-) 
The point about the site that is important is that it works for many
many people.  If there is one overriding principle it is make sure you
are understanding very clearly what you are about to do before you
start.  If you don't know what %(w/v) means then you should not
proceed.  In fact your exact next step at that point is, go find out
what %(w/v) means before you go any further.  Do not assume.  Do not
skip over.  Go find out. The fact that americans have this moronic
attention span means that it is very difficult for us to take the time
to just go and do this stuff methodically.  We cannot concentrate long
enough to read a web page. We see the fuel as miles rolling by our
windscreen before the oil is even reacted. Carrot on a stick
mentality.  This is what the rulers of our society have created.  Feel
free to throw your television out the window if any of this bothers
anyone!  I guess it is hard for people in other parts of the world to
know this about our infantile collective on this big island in the
sea.  Take pity you cruel task master, we are but children emerging
from the playground into a world of harsh reality.

Joe

Keith Addison wrote:

  LOL Brian!!!

Actually it's not funny. It's just inept, and it sows confusion - 
extracting such clouds of complexitites out of such simplicities is 
not exactly going to encourage newbies, though that's apparently what 
you're trying to do. Now it requires explanations of things which 
need no explanations, which always makes them appear more complex 
than they are, very encouraging for newbies, yes. Sigh...

  
  
I say this because I'd rather
not have people telling me I am not tip-top with my labwork. Tired is
all.

  
  
And I'm finally getting just a little tired of your saying our 
website doesn't work properly when it's quite obviously you who 
doesn't work properly.

How come, for starters, you're starting with WVO and not virgin oil? 
How come lots of things.

First of all, in order to re-establish the whereabouts of our feet 
somewhere near the surface of Planet Earth once again, see:
Basic titration
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate



  
  
With readings of that which we could expect, we then moved on to basic
titration. If you all will bear with me a moment, I do have some
questions. I will intertwine my questions right into the JtF web site
directions for basic titration. Our hope is to clarify these
directions for ourselves and for other newbies as well. We believe
that there are several statements found here and in the email list
which are contradictory at best.

  
  
Uh-huh.

  
  
"Basic titration
An electronic pH meter is best, but you can also use pH test strips
(or litmus paper), or phenolphthalein solution (from a chemicals
supplier)."
I suggest sorting the test equipment according to preference.

  
  
It's sorted according to cost and simplicity, cheapest and easiest to 
most expensive, and that's how most people see it, especially 
newbies. There's no confusion and no contradiction.

  
  
We were
ridiculed for using litmus paper.

  
  
I don't think you were ridiculed, you were simply advised against it. 
Why do you need to say you were ridiculed?

  
  
Why list it second if it is
preferred as a third choice? Phenolphthalein sounds very interesting.

  
  
Do you mean to tell me, after all this time you claim to have been 
studying this, months, that this is the first you hear of 
phenolphthalein?

  
  
Why not give more information on the setup and use of this test? Yes
we followed the links.

  
  
Did you. Then what's the complaint? There's a whole section on 
"phenolphth

Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process

[Joe Street]

Well here is an update for what it's worth;

I have been conducting experiments in a test tube with 20 ml new canola 
oil and fresh industrial grade methanol.  As per the suggestion I 
started with smaller electrode gap and lower voltage to obtain the 15 to 
20 v/mm field strength as required in the abstract.  Electrode 
configuration is a rod sharpened to a point to concentrate field 
strength adjacent to a flat plate.  Electrode material is copper.  
Mixture is an emulsion of 20% (v/v) methanol agitated by a stir bar and 
heated to 60 degrees centigrade. With a gap of 1mm I increased the 
applied voltage eventually to 120 Vdc which is the limit of my (little) 
supply.  There was very little current (in the tens of microamperes) at 
this stage.  I expected to see bubbles at the anode but the cloudiness 
of the emulsion made this difficult.  A solution with disolved methanol 
saturated (I do not know the exact percentage as some methanol remained 
undisolved on the surface) which is optically clear did not exhibit any 
gas generation.
Next I increased the gap to 3 mm and brought out the scary supply.  I 
installed a 300 ma fuse at the HV output to protect the innocent and a 
milliameter.  Then, fire extinguisher in hand, I tried again.  At 
roughly 2kv the dielectric breakdown occured with 3mm gap for a Vbr of 
about 670 V/mm.  Of course there were many bubbles in that case.  No 
explosion though which was nice.  Interestingly the protection fuse was 
not taken out by the arc whch was my expectation.  At this point I do 
not know if this fact is due to the internal resistance of the supply 
limiting current to a value the fuse could handle for the brief duration 
of the arc or whether current was limited by conditions within the arc.  
I will have to do a short circuit test of the supply tonight to find out 
if it really has the balls to do 300 mA as I expect it should.
Since the abstract calls for 100% conversion and with excess methanol a 
etherified glycerine which remains in solution, it is not clear what to 
expect the end result to look like.  There should not be a separation of 
layers as in the traditional chemically catalyzed reaction.  Since I do 
not see bubbles I do not think much is happening. I wish I knew more 
chemistry.  I expect the reaction should take place on the surface of 
the anode and it should not be in the presence of an arc.  Close 
observation at the tip at a voltage just below breakdown reveals a tiny 
whisker of something black (carbon??) grows towards the cathode and 
dances in the swirling current until it gets close enough and 
precipitates another arc.  This could be something very interesting but 
I expect it has nothing to do with fuel :-( .
The abstract does talk about very high temperatures at the anode surface 
and a strong oxidizing environment which makes me wonder if an arc is 
supposed to be sustained?  Anyone on the list care to comment?
Asside from proton NMR at this point I do not know how to shed more 
light on the contents of the test tube after these shocking 
experiments.  This will require negotiations and the consumption of 
beer...

I wish I had some exciting news
Joe




David Miller wrote:

> Joe Street wrote:
>
>> Hi Joe;
>>
>> Right.  The abstract talks about a relationship between higer 
>> voltages and longer carbon chains in the ester which translates into 
>> higher fuel energy content (cetane rating?  I don't know if that is 
>> equivalent I am no chemist).  I suspect the issue is more 
>
>
>
> I missed the beginning of the thread, but it sounds like you're on a 
> great test to see if you can refine something with an electric field.  
> I just wanted to make two comments to try and help.
>
> 1) Cetane rating is a measure of the ignitability of the fuel.  A high 
> cetane rating is good in a diesel engine because it means the fuel 
> starts combustion as soon as it's injected.  It's the opposite of 
> octane, which is a measure of a fuels ability to not ignite.
>
> Neither has anything to do with energy content, they're just measures 
> of ignition properties.
>
> 2) If you're looking for electrochemical effects they're quite 
> certainly subject to electric field strength, not absolute voltage 
> differential.  This is how you can scale production: move the plates 
> twice as far apart and you can get twice the fuel through it.  But 
> you'll need twice the voltage to maintain E (electric field 
> strength).  You made a reference to this effect, I'm just confirming it:)
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --- David
>
>> correctly related to  field strength than absolute voltage and 
>> electrode area and configuration is a dependant variable in this 
>> relationship.  I could be wrong.  I have designed a configuration 
>> which allows quick and easy modification of the electrode spacing and 
>> I also have developed a variable DC supply so I can control these 
>> variables. I can start with small spacing and low voltage, and still 
>> have a high

Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Digest, Vol 6, Issue 95 Quickie question on titration

[Matt Yarrison]

Dear All-
I have a really quick question here: The Phenopthalein solution I use 
is a
1% in IPA (reagent grade from Sigma-Aldrich). This should be appropriate for
titrating WVO with a 1 normal (1g/l) solution of NaOH in DI water, with the
comversion being 1mL of NaOH added corresponding to 1 additonal gram of NaOH
needed above the 3.5 g required? I use 10 ML of the IPA/PHTH solution to 1mL
of WVO. I've worked out the chemistry, the numbers seem right, but I just
want to make sure that the 1% PHTH is about what everyone else out there
uses so I'm not getting screwball results.
Thanks
- Matt

And Keith, thank you very much for the JtF site.


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Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process

[garutek]

Just to throw my cents worth out without having much of a clue about what 
results you are looking for exactly.
>From what I know and if melting of the conductors is a concern. A high grade 
of graphite has a melting point roughly 4 times that of oxygen free copper. 
if interested try a machine shop for used electrodes.
"just interested and surfing the future"
Gary

- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process


> Well here is an update for what it's worth;
>
> I have been conducting experiments in a test tube with 20 ml new canola
> oil and fresh industrial grade methanol.  As per the suggestion I
> started with smaller electrode gap and lower voltage to obtain the 15 to
> 20 v/mm field strength as required in the abstract.  Electrode
> configuration is a rod sharpened to a point to concentrate field
> strength adjacent to a flat plate.  Electrode material is copper.
> Mixture is an emulsion of 20% (v/v) methanol agitated by a stir bar and
> heated to 60 degrees centigrade. With a gap of 1mm I increased the
> applied voltage eventually to 120 Vdc which is the limit of my (little)
> supply.  There was very little current (in the tens of microamperes) at
> this stage.  I expected to see bubbles at the anode but the cloudiness
> of the emulsion made this difficult.  A solution with disolved methanol
> saturated (I do not know the exact percentage as some methanol remained
> undisolved on the surface) which is optically clear did not exhibit any
> gas generation.
> Next I increased the gap to 3 mm and brought out the scary supply.  I
> installed a 300 ma fuse at the HV output to protect the innocent and a
> milliameter.  Then, fire extinguisher in hand, I tried again.  At
> roughly 2kv the dielectric breakdown occured with 3mm gap for a Vbr of
> about 670 V/mm.  Of course there were many bubbles in that case.  No
> explosion though which was nice.  Interestingly the protection fuse was
> not taken out by the arc whch was my expectation.  At this point I do
> not know if this fact is due to the internal resistance of the supply
> limiting current to a value the fuse could handle for the brief duration
> of the arc or whether current was limited by conditions within the arc.
> I will have to do a short circuit test of the supply tonight to find out
> if it really has the balls to do 300 mA as I expect it should.
> Since the abstract calls for 100% conversion and with excess methanol a
> etherified glycerine which remains in solution, it is not clear what to
> expect the end result to look like.  There should not be a separation of
> layers as in the traditional chemically catalyzed reaction.  Since I do
> not see bubbles I do not think much is happening. I wish I knew more
> chemistry.  I expect the reaction should take place on the surface of
> the anode and it should not be in the presence of an arc.  Close
> observation at the tip at a voltage just below breakdown reveals a tiny
> whisker of something black (carbon??) grows towards the cathode and
> dances in the swirling current until it gets close enough and
> precipitates another arc.  This could be something very interesting but
> I expect it has nothing to do with fuel :-( .
> The abstract does talk about very high temperatures at the anode surface
> and a strong oxidizing environment which makes me wonder if an arc is
> supposed to be sustained?  Anyone on the list care to comment?
> Asside from proton NMR at this point I do not know how to shed more
> light on the contents of the test tube after these shocking
> experiments.  This will require negotiations and the consumption of
> beer...
>
> I wish I had some exciting news
> Joe
>
>
>
>
> David Miller wrote:
>
>> Joe Street wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joe;
>>>
>>> Right.  The abstract talks about a relationship between higer
>>> voltages and longer carbon chains in the ester which translates into
>>> higher fuel energy content (cetane rating?  I don't know if that is
>>> equivalent I am no chemist).  I suspect the issue is more
>>
>>
>>
>> I missed the beginning of the thread, but it sounds like you're on a
>> great test to see if you can refine something with an electric field.
>> I just wanted to make two comments to try and help.
>>
>> 1) Cetane rating is a measure of the ignitability of the fuel.  A high
>> cetane rating is good in a diesel engine because it means the fuel
>> starts combustion as soon as it's injected.  It's the opposite of
>> octane, which is a measure of a fuels ability to not ignite.
>>
>> Neither has anything to do with energy content, they're just measures
>> of ignition properties.
>>
>> 2) If you're looking for electrochemical effects they're quite
>> certainly subject to electric field strength, not absolute voltage
>> differential.  This is how you can scale production: move the plates
>> twice as far apart and you can get twice the fuel through it.  But

Re: [Biofuel] noryl impellers

[Chris Tan]

Thanks Earl.

Best regards,
Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:00 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] noryl impellers

Chris,

I don't think that noryl will hold up.  My company had a problem with 
esterized hydrocarbons (in the form of machine oil) attack a mechanical 
shaft made with noryl in one of our aircraft instruments.  After a few 
months the oil weakened the noryl to the point that it fractured.  We
had to 
repair half our altimeters at our expense.  We found that cleaning the 
machine oil off of the metal part of the shaft before mating it with the

noryl part eliminated the problem.  Oops.

There are plastics that will hold up in fuel.  We are using glass-filled
PPS 
(don't remember what is stands for offhand), and ULTEM in one of our
aicraft 
fuel probe designs (JP-8 resistant).  You may be able to find other 
impellers made from these materials.

Earl Kinsley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government

owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.
To 
destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between

corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmen
of 
today."
 - President Theodore Roosevelt - 1906

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Tan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] noryl impellers


> Keith and Everyone:
>
> Have any of you tried a clear water pump with noryl plastic impellers?
> Will esters dissolve noryl plastics?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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g
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
> 


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[Biofuel] mixing and heating biodiesel

[Andrew Leven]

I am setting up my processor and want to use a pump 
to mix. What type and size of pump would be suitable for  15-20 gallon 
batch. Does it have to be resistant to methanol and lye mix as well as fry 
oil?  Also when using an immersion heater for the heat source is is 
critical that it also be resistant ie; stainlesss or can a steel unit withstand 
the mix for a long time before needing replacement?
Andrew Leven
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Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process

[Juan B]

Hello  Joe,  Gary and David, 

I was reading your post and it was a symphony to my eyes and mind. I am
really interested in this process and I would like to know more about
it. 

I would like to know where I could find more information related to this kind of reaction or process.
Thank you 
JuanOn 10/24/05, garutek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Just to throw my cents worth out without having much of a clue about whatresults you are looking for exactly.>From what I know and if melting of the conductors is a concern. A high gradeof graphite has a melting point roughly 4 times that of oxygen free copper.
if interested try a machine shop for used electrodes."just interested and surfing the future"Gary- Original Message -From: "Joe Street" <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 4:33 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process
> Well here is an update for what it's worth;>> I have been conducting experiments in a test tube with 20 ml new canola> oil and fresh industrial grade methanol.  As per the suggestion I
> started with smaller electrode gap and lower voltage to obtain the 15 to> 20 v/mm field strength as required in the abstract.  Electrode> configuration is a rod sharpened to a point to concentrate field
> strength adjacent to a flat plate.  Electrode material is copper.> Mixture is an emulsion of 20% (v/v) methanol agitated by a stir bar and> heated to 60 degrees centigrade. With a gap of 1mm I increased the
> applied voltage eventually to 120 Vdc which is the limit of my (little)> supply.  There was very little current (in the tens of microamperes) at> this stage.  I expected to see bubbles at the anode but the cloudiness
> of the emulsion made this difficult.  A solution with disolved methanol> saturated (I do not know the exact percentage as some methanol remained> undisolved on the surface) which is optically clear did not exhibit any
> gas generation.> Next I increased the gap to 3 mm and brought out the scary supply.  I> installed a 300 ma fuse at the HV output to protect the innocent and a> milliameter.  Then, fire extinguisher in hand, I tried again.  At
> roughly 2kv the dielectric breakdown occured with 3mm gap for a Vbr of> about 670 V/mm.  Of course there were many bubbles in that case.  No> explosion though which was nice.  Interestingly the protection fuse was
> not taken out by the arc whch was my expectation.  At this point I do> not know if this fact is due to the internal resistance of the supply> limiting current to a value the fuse could handle for the brief duration
> of the arc or whether current was limited by conditions within the arc.> I will have to do a short circuit test of the supply tonight to find out> if it really has the balls to do 300 mA as I expect it should.
> Since the abstract calls for 100% conversion and with excess methanol a> etherified glycerine which remains in solution, it is not clear what to> expect the end result to look like.  There should not be a separation of
> layers as in the traditional chemically catalyzed reaction.  Since I do> not see bubbles I do not think much is happening. I wish I knew more> chemistry.  I expect the reaction should take place on the surface of
> the anode and it should not be in the presence of an arc.  Close> observation at the tip at a voltage just below breakdown reveals a tiny> whisker of something black (carbon??) grows towards the cathode and
> dances in the swirling current until it gets close enough and> precipitates another arc.  This could be something very interesting but> I expect it has nothing to do with fuel :-( .> The abstract does talk about very high temperatures at the anode surface
> and a strong oxidizing environment which makes me wonder if an arc is> supposed to be sustained?  Anyone on the list care to comment?> Asside from proton NMR at this point I do not know how to shed more
> light on the contents of the test tube after these shocking> experiments.  This will require negotiations and the consumption of> beer...>> I wish I had some exciting news> Joe
> David Miller wrote:>>> Joe Street wrote:> Hi Joe;>> Right.  The abstract talks about a relationship between higer
>>> voltages and longer carbon chains in the ester which translates into>>> higher fuel energy content (cetane rating?  I don't know if that is>>> equivalent I am no chemist).  I suspect the issue is more
 I missed the beginning of the thread, but it sounds like you're on a>> great test to see if you can refine something with an electric field.>> I just wanted to make two comments to try and help.
 1) Cetane rating is a measure of the ignitability of the fuel.  A high>> cetane rating is good in a diesel engine because it means the fuel>> starts combustion as soon as it's injected.  It's the opposite of
>> octane, which is a measure of a fuels ability to not ignite. Neither has anything to do with energy content, they're just measures>> of ign

Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD

[Bernie Hunsche]

Is it the animel fat or the Biodiesel that starts to solidify at around
10deg C?

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Irwin
> Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2005 8:40 
> To:   Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject:  Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
> 
> Hello Juan,
>  
> I have found animal fat converts really easy to biodiesel. The main
> obstacle is that it is primarily a summer only fuel as it solidifies at
> about 10-14 C. A lot depends on what resources you have and your local
> climate. If you have a farm with animals that need feed, perhaps canola
> (non-GM variety) is a good candidate. It has a good oil yield per hectare
> and a reasonably low iodine value. You can feed the crushed seedcake to
> your livestock. If you are in a good sized town or city, waste vegetable
> oil is usually available from restaurants. It's quite variable and more
> difficult to convert than unused oil but you can usually get it for just
> your transport costs. If you live in a poorer area then look for wild
> castor beans. They're have large yields and are generally free for the
> picking but you can't use the seedcake for animal feed. It composts rather
> well for a garden or farm soil amendment.  It takes a stronger stomach
> than mine to deal with the aroma. Castor oil was once used an an emetic to
> cause vomiting. Other I'm sure have their favorites.
>  
> Tom Irwin
>  
>  
> 
> 
>   _  
> 
>   From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>   Sent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:28:27 -0300
>   Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best oil to make BD
>   
>   Free is the best oil to use ;-)
>   
>   Juan B wrote: 
> 
>   Hello Everyone, 
>   
>   I Would like to know what is the best vegetable oil that can
> be use to get the most biodiesel ? or it would be better to get animal
> fat?
>   
>   I looked at the tables in the website but I did not
> completely understand . 
>   thanks
>   Juan
>   
>
>   _  
> 
>___ Biofuel
> mailing list  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
>  >  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>   Search the combined Biofuel
> and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
> 
> 
> 
>  
>   << File: ATT89996.txt >> 

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[Biofuel] Fwd: Rosa Parks Dead at 92

[Michael Redler]

FYI
 
Peace,
 
Mikeuriela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]From: uriela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:08:26 -0400Subject: [isoinfo] Rosa Parks Dead at 92http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm6900_20051024.htm





Rosa Parks, civil rights heroine, is dead
Monday, October 24, 2005 
BY CASSANDRA SPRATTLINGFREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
When Rosa Parks refused to get up, an entire race of people began to stand up for their rights as human beings. 
It was a simple act that took extraordinary courage in Montgomery, Ala., in 1955. It was a place where black people had no rights white people had to respect. It was a time when racial discrimination was so common, many blacks never questioned it. 
At least not out loud. 
But then came Rosa Parks. 
This mild-mannered black woman refused to give up her seat on a city bus so a white man could sit down. 
Jim Crow laws had met their match. 
Parks' refusal infused 50,000 blacks in Montgomery with the will to walk rather than risk daily humiliation on the city's buses. 
This gentle giant, whose quietness belied her toughness, became the catalyst for a movement that broke the back of legalized segregation in the United States, gave rise to the astounding leadership of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and inspired fighters for freedom and justice throughout the world. 
Parks, the beloved mother of the civil rights movement, is dead, a family member confirmed late Monday. 
But already it's evident that her spirit lives in hundreds of thousands of people inspired by her unwavering commitment to work for a better world - a commitment that continued even after age and failing health slowed her in the 1990s. 
In death as in life, she touched the well known and the little known people of the world. 
'Freedom is for all human beings' 
Parks' health had been declining since the late 1990s. She had stopped giving interviews by then and rarely appeared in public. When she did, she only smiled or spoke short, barely audible responses. 
In one of her last lengthy interviews with the Detroit Free Press in 1995, she spoke of what she would like people to say about her after she passed away. 
"I'd like people to say I'm a person who always wanted to be free and wanted it not only for myself; freedom is for all human beings," she said during an interview from the pastor's study of St. Matthew African Methodist Episcopal Church, a small congregation she joined upon moving to Detroit in 1957. 
While it's known worldwide that her refusal to give up her bus seat sparked the Montgomery bus boycott, it's less well known that Parks had a long history of trying to make life better for black people. 
It was a desire embedded in her from childhood by her grandfather - her mother's father with whom she lived when she was growing up. He taught his children and grandchildren not to put up with mistreatment. "It was passed down almost in our genes," Parks wrote in her 1992 autobiography, "My Story." (Puffin, $5.99) 
She recalled that when her grandfather was home, he kept a shotgun by his side in case the Ku Klux Klan dropped by. 
Of her grandfather, Sylvester Edwards, she wrote: "I remember that sometimes he would call white men by their first names, or their whole names, and not say, 'Mister.' How he survived doing all those kinds of things, and being so outspoken, talking that big talk, I don't know, unless it was because he was so white and so close to being one of them." 
Her grandfather's father was a white plantation owner; his mother a slave housekeeper and seamstress. 
In recent years, Parks has relied heavily on a wheelchair and, according to court documents, suffers from dementia. 
The dementia was revealed as a result of two lawsuits filed on her behalf against the record company for the hip hop duo Outkast. The 1999 lawsuit claims the record label BMG Entertainment violated her publicity and trademark rights for the 1998 song "Rosa Parks,' by using her name without her permission for commercial purposes. 
But some of her family members claim Parks was incapable of filing such a suit of her own accord. They say it was an attempt by one of her attorneys, Gregory Reed and her longtime friend, Elaine Steele, to get money. 
Meanwhile, in October of this year a federal judge appointed former Detroit Mayor Dennis Archer as her guardian ad litem-a temporary, court-appointed attorney to assure her interests in the lawsuits are fairly represented. 
Steele has had durable power of attorney over Parks and serves as her patient advocate, meaning she will make medical decisions upon incapacitating illness since 1998, according to documents obtained by the Free Press. 







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Re: [Biofuel] mixing and heating biodiesel

[Derick Giorchino]

As for the pump harbor freight has a 1’’
clear water pump $37.00 aprox also available on line I use one for 120 liters
no problem as of yet and at the price you cant go wrong. 

Immersion heater stainless steel would be
good but I work to hard to pay so much for that so I use a standerd 240 volt
unit with 110 v supply. Works good. Don’t let it go dry.

Good luck Derick 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Leven
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005
5:21 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] mixing and
heating biodiesel



 



I am setting up my processor and want to use a pump to mix.
What type and size of pump would be suitable for  15-20 gallon batch. Does
it have to be resistant to methanol and lye mix as well as fry oil?  Also
when using an immersion heater for the heat source is is critical that it also
be resistant ie; stainlesss or can a steel unit withstand the mix for a long
time before needing replacement?





Andrew Leven








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[Biofuel] KOH cost discrepancies

[Marc DeGagne]

Hello folks

For those with experience in the.pricing out and purchasing of KOH, 
is it common place for one chemical company(Univar) to be selling 90% 
pure flake @ $2.78 per kg, and the next company(Anachemia) to be selling 
85% pure pellets(ACS certified) @ $28.50 per kg?

What prices are you fine homebrew folks paying?  In order to produce 
quality biodiesel, is it best to buy VERY expensive KOH? 

Any help appreciated.

Marc



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Re: [Biofuel] KOH cost discrepancies

[Appal Energy]

Marc,

Purity can vary. But price shouldn't be but a few pennies or a dollar or 
so difference per pound unless you're buying lab grade.

One reason for the price difference between pellets and flake may be 
that the pellets are intentionally formed, requiring several extra steps 
in comparison to flake. Flake is a co-product of some other process, 
where it is dried and then "burst" off the rotating dryer in a continual 
process

100# casks of flake from Ashta Chemical run about $0.95 per pound.

Todd Swearingen


>Hello folks
>
>For those with experience in the.pricing out and purchasing of KOH, 
>is it common place for one chemical company(Univar) to be selling 90% 
>pure flake @ $2.78 per kg, and the next company(Anachemia) to be selling 
>85% pure pellets(ACS certified) @ $28.50 per kg?
>
>What prices are you fine homebrew folks paying?  In order to produce 
>quality biodiesel, is it best to buy VERY expensive KOH? 
>
>Any help appreciated.
>
>Marc
>
>
>  
>


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